Visa for daughter doing a 30 day volunteering stint

[rhodie]

My daughter tried to get a visa in London for a visit including doing a paid for volunteering stint up near Chiang Mai. Visa was refused and she was told to get a tourist visa, but can't be given one now that she has told them she is volunteering.

She will be in Germany next month so I told her to just apply for a double entry tourist visa there.

I would have thought paying for volunteering would not be ruled work. Lot's of people do this, so what visa do they get.

[JohnC]

The organisation she is doing voluntary work needs to obtain a work permit for her, she then applies for the appropriate visa.

[ubonjoe]

With the needed documents she should of been able to get a single entry non-o visa. By law she should also have a work permit.

[rhodie]

The organisation she is doing voluntary work needs to obtain a work permit for her, she then applies for the appropriate visa.

Thanks John. She paid and set this up through a travel agency in Australia. I assume they should have provided her with the paper work. She is trying to get answers from them.

[rhodie]

With the needed documents she should of been able to get a single entry non-o visa. By law she should also have a work permit.

Looks like the agency should have provided the documentation. Thanks.

[paz]

My daughter tried to get a visa in London for a visit including doing a paid for volunteering stint up near Chiang Mai

Be aware of such "organizations" that can be nothing but a setup to allow free stay and career for the ones running them.

Since they can't even get to correct paperwork for the volunteers, they will encourage them staying with a tourist visa or nothing at all. Then if anything happens, could be an incident of any kind, they will not take any responsability and all the trouble stays with the individual.

Edited September 20, 2014 by paz

[enuff said]

.

I have been witness to several horror stories told by well meaning people who paid money to be a part of a so-called "volunteer teaching program".

One young couple were stranded and had to borrow money after promised visa runs failed to appear. The poor watt school they were taken to had no idea they had been promised free accommodations and they were lucky one of the teachers had a spare room.

Avoid avoid avoid

'nuff said

~

[srn89]

No paid or unpaid work in Thailand without a Work Permit are the rules here.

[rhodie]

Thanks for the input guys. Appreciated. I just assumed it was all well organised. I will try to get more details.

At this stage she is looking at getting the correct visas.

[PiPiFFS]

There are a few so called charity organisations here that charge people to come here and volunteer. A well run legal organisation would never charge a person to come here and help. They would also provide a permit to do the work as well.

[scorecard]

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.

I have been witness to several horror stories told by well meaning people who paid money to be a part of a so-called "volunteer teaching program".

One young couple were stranded and had to borrow money after promised visa runs failed to appear. The poor watt school they were taken to had no idea they had been promised free accommodations and they were lucky one of the teachers had a spare room.

Avoid avoid avoid

'nuff said

~

I can only emphasize the 'beware of agencies' comments.

I stay often in Bkk for lecturing, and the hotel I use (3 star) has a couple of nice meeting / conference rooms.

About six months ago suddenly the hotel was full of about 50 young folks who had just arrived in Thailand from US, UK, Aust., Sth. Africa and more (most never been abroad before) to take up promised English teaching positions in rural schools.

The new arrivals had all paid all their own travel expenses, they had already transferred funds to the agency to pay for their hotel rooms on arrival (actually they understood they would all have separate rooms but on arrival they discovered there were 3 to 4 people assigned to each room, plus they eventually discovered they had paid twice the normal hotel rate for single occupancy. Also they had already transferred a 'job service fee' of around 100,000Baht each to the agency.

The agency was conducting a three day 'orientation program' for the new arrivals. Near the end of the orientation the agency owner (the US guy) said that they were a charity and they were currently short of funds and asked for the new arrivals to all put in an extra 2,000Baht to help pay for the conference rooms, etc.

The agency concerned was run by several Thai and Filipino people and one older guy from US. The Thai people all spoke excellent English. The agency was obviously a very well planned act, all their staff well dressed and well groomed and all capable of 'talking professionally' and very convincing. Many times when I was eating in the hotel coffee shop they were all there with the agency staff 'supervising' and explaining whatever to all present.

Plus they were using a logo which seemed to indicate the UN plus the name of probably the most well know global children's charity. Any questions on this were quickly deflected and the subject of conversation quickly changed.

One evening one young guy from US asked if he could sit with me and he was obviously very concerned / distressed about this whole situation. He revealed that the group had been told:

- By Thai law they did not need any qualifications whatever to teach English or to teach anything in Thailand. (Incorrect.)

- For the work they would be doing work permits were not needed but in any case the agency owner (the US guy) had a personal lifetime work permit for Thailand and he also had approval to add up to 500 extra names to the work permit at any one time with no documentation needed to be submitted to the labor ministry. (There is no such thing.)

- All schools in Thailand city and rural pay high salaries to English teachers but it takes several months to get it started. (Not true.)

- The schools they were assigned to would help them get a 'teachers visa' which has no time limit and is free. (No such thing.)

and more ...

The young guy who sat with me asked if he could contact me again and he took my number.

Three weeks later he called me, he was staying in a cheap guest house in Bkk waiting to fly home two days later.

Turns out after the 'orientation' they were all taken to various bus stations and were told that someone from their new school would be waiting for them at the other end of the bus journey. They all paid for their own bus tickets.

Obviously there was nobody waiting at the other end and all attempts to locate someone local to help were fruitless, nobody (including local police) had any knowledge of this arrangement.

The people who had mobile phones useable in Thailand started to call each other and they eventually realized they were all lost and scammed and calling the numbers they had from 'the agency' was fruitless - phones never answered. The young man I mention did book into a local motel upcountry and try to contact some local schools all of which proven fruitless.

My new young friend also called the Bkk hotel to ask if they had any phone numbers for the agency, those numbers also never answered. In fact it turned out that the agency staff had personally visited the hotel to talk face to face to set everything up and there had never been any phone calls between the agency and the hotel.

My young friend stayed upcountry for about one week trying to find work then realized he should go home.

Beware!!!

Edited September 21, 2014 by scorecard

[scorecard]

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The organisation she is doing voluntary work needs to obtain a work permit for her, she then applies for the appropriate visa.

Thanks John. She paid and set this up through a travel agency in Australia. I assume they should have provided her with the paper work. She is trying to get answers from them.

If your meaning the agency in Australia was setting up the work permit, sorry but it doesn't work like that.

A work permit is a personal approval for one person to work in a specific job (within the categories of work which are not reserved for Thai people only) for a specific employer, at a specific location, with start and finish dates.

WPs are usually for a one year period but if the employer and employee agree the WP usually can be renewed. Renewal provides the needed documentation to now go back to the immigration authorities and have your visa extended. WPs are not transferable to other people.

If your meaning the agency in Australia was setting up the correct visa then that's not possible unless a work permit has already been issued.

(Notes, step by step:

1). A visa is a document indicating that you have permission to physically be in Thailand from date to date under a certain visa category, but a visa is not in itself approval to work in Thailand.

2). A work permit (WP) is a document (small book) saying that you have approval to work in a specific job, for a specific employer and at a specific location (as above) and with a start and finish date. WPS are generally for one year. WPs are not ever transferable to other people.

3). To be clear, visa's are issued by the Thai immigration authorities, and work permits are issued separately, by the Thai Labor Ministry - different ministries.

4. For the WP the employer must provide a number of documents to prove that the school / company is properly / legally set up, and has a certain set up / profile of employees in a certain ratio, number of locals compared to foreigners, etc.

The employer generally starts the process by completing the WP application document. The employee concerned (e.g. teacher) must also provide certain personal documentation and must also submit a medical certificate which includes a blood report from an accepted authority indicating that the applicant is free from a specific list of diseases including syphilis.

WPs are not free - for teachers the applicant usually pays the WP fees. For companies it's fairly normal the company pays. If the school or company uses an agent or lawyer to submit the WP application then there will be additional fees, often quite large. Who pays for this?

4). Usual situation is that the person arrives into Thailand on a tourist on similar general visa, then gets a job offer (has to be a written contract) gets a work permit, then gaining the work permit provides documentation to now go to the immigration authorities and change your visa to a different category - specific to working in Thailand.

In many cases, to change the visa category, the person involved must leave Thailand with a bag on new documents and a WP then apply for a new / change of visa category on reentering the country.

Edited September 21, 2014 by scorecard

[PoorSucker]

I think scorecard covered it well.

[EnglishJohn]

Isn't it the rule that you must get salary of at least 50,000 baht per month ?.

I know the whole work-permit thing is a can of worms, but does anyone know if it really is the case that the minimum salary for every farang working must be 50,000/month ?.

It seems strange because I'm sure most Thais don't earn that.

[JLCrab]

To OP: If you have already made a non-refundable payment, just tell your daughter to go and have fun via tourist visa or otherwise and you will know better for next time.

[ubonjoe]

Isn't it the rule that you must get salary of at least 50,000 baht per month ?.

I know the whole work-permit thing is a can of worms, but does anyone know if it really is the case that the minimum salary for every farang working must be 50,000/month ?.

It seems strange because I'm sure most Thais don't earn that.

Their is no minimum salary to get a work permit.

There is a minimum salary to get an extension of stay based upon working for a company. It depends upon the country a person is from. it ranges from 50k baht for those from most western countries to 25k baht for others.

[EnglishJohn]

Isn't it the rule that you must get salary of at least 50,000 baht per month ?.

I know the whole work-permit thing is a can of worms, but does anyone know if it really is the case that the minimum salary for every farang working must be 50,000/month ?.

It seems strange because I'm sure most Thais don't earn that.

Their is no minimum salary to get a work permit.

There is a minimum salary to get an extension of stay based upon working for a company. It depends upon the country a person is from. it ranges from 50k baht for those from most western countries to 25k baht for others.

So what does that actually mean for the OP ?. You can work your first visa for free then anything after that needs 50K/month ?, or you have to go out and get another visa if you don't earn anything ?.

[ubonjoe]

Isn't it the rule that you must get salary of at least 50,000 baht per month ?.

I know the whole work-permit thing is a can of worms, but does anyone know if it really is the case that the minimum salary for every farang working must be 50,000/month ?.

It seems strange because I'm sure most Thais don't earn that.

Their is no minimum salary to get a work permit.

There is a minimum salary to get an extension of stay based upon working for a company. It depends upon the country a person is from. it ranges from 50k baht for those from most western countries to 25k baht for others.

So what does that actually mean for the OP ?. You can work your first visa for free then anything after that needs 50K/month ?, or you have to go out and get another visa if you don't earn anything ?.

You need to note I wrote it is needed for an extension when working for a company.

Volunteer work is different along with several other types of extensions.

[Arkady]

There are a number of travel agents selling these volunteering holidays but they mainly seem to expect their customers to come on tourist visas and take the risk of being arrested for working illegally. The customers readily assume that they don't need a WP to do unpaid charity work.

[scorecard]

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Isn't it the rule that you must get salary of at least 50,000 baht per month ?.

I know the whole work-permit thing is a can of worms, but does anyone know if it really is the case that the minimum salary for every farang working must be 50,000/month ?.

It seems strange because I'm sure most Thais don't earn that.

It that really the main point?

Employers always need to look at some further points:

- If I have a foreigner in my office / my company / my school / my charity organization, etc., the local staff will quickly know all the details about salary, accommodation support, home travel, extra allowances etc., etc. (And in most cases unless there is more reward the foreigner will not come.)

- Next point; unless I (typically meaning owner / principal) can show / explain clearly that the foreigner is adding more value and the extra costs are well outweighed by the extra value the foreigner is continuously contributing, then the local staff will quickly be very pissed off and it will show in their commitment etc., and also presents an issue which the owner / principal must address.

This could also mean the Thai / local staff won't cooperation with the foreigner / ostracize the foreigner, etc., overall a very undesirable scenario.

Plus it also does strong damage to the trust between the owner / principal and the local (any) staff.

Edited September 21, 2014 by scorecard

[iamariva1957]

She does need a Work Permit issued by the Thai authorities. paying to be a volunteer or not it is considered a job here in the Kingdom and so the need for a Work Permit.

This process can take a while as it requires the outfit that she will be working with (actually FOR... paid or not) arranging the required documents that she will need to obtain said Work Permit. I know sounds silly, but that is the way it is and really has been the case for quite sometime though many have slid through a system that, up till now, has not given a fig. But as I said, those days, for now, have all but gone.

My suggestion is that she gets a Double or Single Entry 60-Day Visa from another Thai embassy or consulate. She should NOT mention the volunteer work at all! Sounds wrong to do to leave that out, I know. But she can arrange things when she is here which is far easier and more normal that trying to get all of her 'ducks' in order beforehand outside the Kingdom.

If she does this then EACH Entry (if she gets a Single or Double Entry 60-Day) is extendable for an additional 30-days for 1900 Baht at the local immigration office. It is easy to do and does away with the more historic Visa Runs (which multiples have become also a thing of the past... for now).

Paying to volunteer is nice, but she should be careful and make sure that the outfit is legitimate. There are many that say whatever they like to get the 'donation' out of the person. Also depending upon the work and the location she should be ready to 'rough it' as accommodations can be very ... well let us say primitive.

Getting a Visa will be easy enough for her to do at another location. Fear not, this is Thailand and they (the embassies/consulates) do not always 'talk' to each other unless there is a reason for them to regarding a visa applicant (ie: criminal record anywhere, past 'issues' with Over Stays in Thailand, and the like). The fact that she was refused at one place... in short... is not the end of her abilities to get one.