Key witness says foreigner kills British tourists

[lucaswallachia]

My personal feeling is this forum must now stop. The posts are mostly out of order. How would you feel if it was your Son or daughter?

If you all need to get it off,go down town or have a cup of tea.

The whole forum is disgusting,and has no respect what so ever for the deceased,or their familys

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Better everyone stay silent and accept whatever is served up by the RTP right?

If I had a son or daughter and if this did happen to them.

I can assure you I would want the truth. If that came about through media involvement or discussions that by and large are very respectful - as much as can be expected in this type of case. Then to get the truth I would wish this type of dialogue. I would be utterly appalled at Sean's decision to keep his mouth shut. I would hate the police and I would never wish to hear the theatrical details of this case but I would want the truth.

Good sir I would expect that you would decline reading this thread and allow people the privilege of individual respectful discussion and deduction. You will not see this from the police so I suggest you may be better suited to hearing and reading the police reports.

Exactly. I would advise green job that if he is offended by stuff on the internet then he refrain from using it.

[Number 3]

My personal feeling is this forum must now stop. The posts are mostly out of order. How would you feel if it was your Son or daughter?

If you all need to get it off,go down town or have a cup of tea.

The whole forum is disgusting,and has no respect what so ever for the deceased,or their familys

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Better everyone stay silent and accept whatever is served up by the RTP right?

Just the kind of inteligent answer I was waiting for:) I said MOST of the posts, Do you realy think this forum will change things? I would wait and see.

With the photos etc personaly i would leave it. Your choice. Also this is without one doubt being monitored. and does not look good.

Just have a bit of thought for the familys

I expect it is out of thought for the families that people care enough to be emotionally invested to people that we have never met. Shame on you for insinuating otherwise. I for one am very impressed by the conduct of posters and the way the community has rallied. Bravo Bangkok.

[slygeeza]

Has everyone seen the latest on BPost?

Former Koh Tao murder 'suspect' confirms innocence Son of island headman says false accusations ruined his life

SMH

the main accusation made against him was that he took a week to hand himself in, he only has himself to blame

[Albertosez]

I really do not believe that the General is going to let this case be unsatisfactorily be concluded - at least in his own eyes. I won't be sending him any Xmas Cards if he fails in his duty here.

The rail rape and homicide has been met with a death sentence. Excellent news!

I would not want to be a perp facing any sort of serious crime,investigation at this moment!

Box smartly, give the local police time, then if no positive outcome, change the gaffa and lock up all of the previous group on a change of potential culpability !

Things will change when folk see that senior folk are being prosecuted !

[RuthieB]

Apart from the closest friends on the island with David and Hannah, there are also friends they met whilst there. Some who have posted photos and heartfelt messages to David on Facebook. These are the friends who will be hurt, but not hurt deep enough to not be able to talk about things, like the close friends will be. Im sure these friends will have told their friends and family back home everything they know, from the start of that day up until night, and on the awful news breaking the next morning. They may have gone to the beach to find out if it were true etc, and will know things that woudnt be posted in news articles. The closest friends, the ones who actully travelled with David and Hannah, will have held vital parts of the jigsaw regarding the last known whereabouts and actions, words, plans of the night. All i keep hearing is a friend said they left together between 3-4am. In a news report i read that they were seen parting on the beach in a group of around 6 people. Im sure by now there are many people who know a lot more about what's happened, than any of us do, because we have not spoke to anyone or really heard a statement of any importance. Of all the thousands of people on that island, the silence if just deafening.

[green job]

My personal feeling is this forum must now stop. The posts are mostly out of order. How would you feel if it was your Son or daughter?

If you all need to get it off,go down town or have a cup of tea.

The whole forum is disgusting,and has no respect what so ever for the deceased,or their familys

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Better everyone stay silent and accept whatever is served up by the RTP right?

If I had a son or daughter and if this did happen to them.

I can assure you I would want the truth. If that came about through media involvement or discussions that by and large are very respectful - as much as can be expected in this type of case. Then to get the truth I would wish this type of dialogue. I would be utterly appalled at Sean's decision to keep his mouth shut. I would hate the police and I would never wish to hear the theatrical details of this case but I would want the truth.

Good sir I would expect that you would decline reading this thread and allow people the privilege of individual respectful discussion and deduction. You will not see this from the police so I suggest you may be better suited to hearing and reading the police reports.

Yes Sure, But you are going about it the wrong way. Its some of the posts. In future do not try and patronize me. OK you are barking up the wrong tree

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

Posts about the deaths on Koh Samet and Phuket have been removed as they are off topic. Replies have been removed as well. There are separate topics running regarding those cases.

[lucaswallachia]

Apart from the closest friends on the island with David and Hannah, there are also friends they met whilst there. Some who have posted photos and heartfelt messages to David on Facebook. These are the friends who will be hurt, but not hurt deep enough to not be able to talk about things, like the close friends will be. Im sure these friends will have told their friends and family back home everything they know, from the start of that day up until night, and on the awful news breaking the next morning. They may have gone to the beach to find out if it were true etc, and will know things that woudnt be posted in news articles. The closest friends, the ones who actully travelled with David and Hannah, will have held vital parts of the jigsaw regarding the last known whereabouts and actions, words, plans of the night. All i keep hearing is a friend said they left together between 3-4am. In a news report i read that they were seen parting on the beach in a group of around 6 people. Im sure by now there are many people who know a lot more about what's happened, than any of us do, because we have not spoke to anyone or really heard a statement of any importance. Of all the thousands of people on that island, the silence if just deafening.

Because they actually named Hannah's friend, Emma Madeline as saying to the police that they left together.

[green job]

My personal feeling is this forum must now stop. The posts are mostly out of order. How would you feel if it was your Son or daughter?

If you all need to get it off,go down town or have a cup of tea.

The whole forum is disgusting,and has no respect what so ever for the deceased,or their familys

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Better everyone stay silent and accept whatever is served up by the RTP right?

Just the kind of inteligent answer I was waiting for:) I said MOST of the posts, Do you realy think this forum will change things? I would wait and see.

With the photos etc personaly i would leave it. Your choice. Also this is without one doubt being monitored. and does not look good.

Just have a bit of thought for the familys

I expect it is out of thought for the families that people care enough to be emotionally invested to people that we have never met. Shame on you for insinuating otherwise. I for one am very impressed by the conduct of posters and the way the community has rallied. Bravo Bangkok.

Thanks for trying to bait me.... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,and that is mine.... By the way I am from Jersey now Pxss off

[Number 3]

Don't dismiss this yet - as there is reasonable evidence, albeit undisclosed :

1.) The girl was shot through her face, the exit point being via her skull - which would have killed her. Photos would lead to an interesting debate, certainly not to be ruled out at this stage.

2.) She could have then raped ( body relatively in tact ) by the perps.

3.) Advisor " X " comes along and clips Perps around the ear and scolds them because bullets and guns are more traceable and would rule out horny Burmese Fisherman swimming ashore from their boats.

4.) Advisor orders that entry and exit points of the bullet be totally destroyed to hide murder weapon being a gun and instead suggest that a " Hoe " was the murder weapon - which would considerably broaden the scope of possible perps!

This is not new, but it is possible that many have missed some posts / other sources of info throughout this ordeal!

I don't enjoy posting this at all, but whilst I can't reasonably consider either scenario, it might be easier to rape a recently shot pretty girl than a extensively chopped one !

Makes me sick to type this!!

Furthermore, having seen the horrific photos', every time I think about those photos I feel as though half my head is already missing - such is the trauma and shared pain I feel for them both and their families.

I want to re- share this info just because there are a lot of people that cannot believe that the perps raped a badly disfigured corpse. read again 1 to 4 and then you will see an alternative situation might have been the case !

Sorry for the upsetting content - I feel the same too !

No quite right.

I raised this earlier and I believe she was shot in the head where the two separate areas of blood are on the beach. Then she was dragged to the rape area. Then she was bludgeoned when she was finished with.

The bludgeoning was an attempt to hide something else that would lead police to the offenders. To hack the way she was found, just on that one area of her body The rest of her body was quite clean really.

These were blows definitely aimed at the head.

I stand by your remarks above.

They may be proven untrue as everything is speculative as we know.

I hope for some true closure for the families.

But then why would they beat David and not shoot him and David's body is clean apart from scratches on his back, the 2 cuts on his head and smaller cuts and black eye on face.

There is noticeable blood on her half-submerged left leg/foot

Here's the thing though I believe that it is obviously the girl they were after and the lad was in the way.

They may have been readying to swim or to make love or kissing and in a state of undress already

Or Hannah may have been on her own marvelling at the paradise she was standing in the midst of.

Have done it myself on the occasion.

The offenders were very put out with Hannah and maybe had lost face but the message is clear that they were after her . You don't attack with that amount of malice unless you want to get someone back. Possibly loss of face.

I still consider that David may have been with Sean. Sean was given a chance to run as was David

David was a noble lad as Sean said and stayed on. I still believe Sean feels tremendous guilt and pain over this decision

Arguing in that central area, someone s come up from behind probably clobbered him. Then held him whilst standing up probably spitting blood and some big guy has snapped him in the nose to make a point.

All the while holding Hannah back restraining screams David's barely conscious and dragged to the water

Hannah is shot as she is too loud and won't listen and remain quiet.

Look at the main area where it all obviously went down. The drag marks are unbelievably telling. It's Hannah's side that has the most blood as was said before.

The foot marks the two distinct blood areas...dragging.

Or I just have a vivid imagination and care far too much at this point of play.

I do have to hope my relationship can survive this cloud of thought I am currently under with this whole affair ! to be frank with you.

[Number 3]

My personal feeling is this forum must now stop. The posts are mostly out of order. How would you feel if it was your Son or daughter?

If you all need to get it off,go down town or have a cup of tea.

The whole forum is disgusting,and has no respect what so ever for the deceased,or their familys

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Better everyone stay silent and accept whatever is served up by the RTP right?

If I had a son or daughter and if this did happen to them.

I can assure you I would want the truth. If that came about through media involvement or discussions that by and large are very respectful - as much as can be expected in this type of case. Then to get the truth I would wish this type of dialogue. I would be utterly appalled at Sean's decision to keep his mouth shut. I would hate the police and I would never wish to hear the theatrical details of this case but I would want the truth.

Good sir I would expect that you would decline reading this thread and allow people the privilege of individual respectful discussion and deduction. You will not see this from the police so I suggest you may be better suited to hearing and reading the police reports.

Yes Sure, But you are going about it the wrong way. Its some of the posts. In future do not try and patronize me. OK you are barking up the wrong tree

Best find another topic on here my friend

[TV7]

Has everyone seen the latest on BPost?

Former Koh Tao murder 'suspect' confirms innocence Son of island headman says false accusations ruined his life

SMH

the main accusation made against him was that he took a week to hand himself in, he only has himself to blame

Is this the son who is at university in BK? Did he ever hand himself in? I don't think he's ever been DNA tested, so how can he be excluded from the case? I also read that the island headman (the owner of AC bar) has another son.

[Tazwa]

Can someone please help to clarify this:

"Police questioned why Wiraphans son Warot, 22 disappeared from the island shortly after the murders however he stated that his son was studying at a university in Bangkok and he was returning to study, not running as the police said."

Now Warot's lawyers have produced time-stamped cctv images to show that he was staying in his Bangkok apartment at the time of the murders. (See unmentionable newspaper website).

So his father, when interviewed, said his son had left the island on the morning of the murder and now the son is producing evidence that he was already in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Seems their stories conflict. Granted, the father may not live with his son and therefore not be aware of all his comings and goings - but he did say that his son returned to Bkk that morning.

How difficult would it be to manipulate cctv images- well, just the time stamp?

[Number 3]

Can someone please help to clarify this:

"Police questioned why Wiraphans son Warot, 22 disappeared from the island shortly after the murders however he stated that his son was studying at a university in Bangkok and he was returning to study, not running as the police said."

Now Warot's lawyers have produced time-stamped cctv images to show that he was staying in his Bangkok apartment at the time of the murders. (See unmentionable newspaper website).

So his father, when interviewed, said his son had left the island on the morning of the murder and now the son is producing evidence that he was already in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Seems their stories conflict. Granted, the father may not live with his son and therefore not be aware of all his comings and goings - but he did say that his son returned to Bkk that morning.

How difficult would it be to manipulate cctv images- well, just the time stamp?

Yes this was yet another odd bullet point to this mess

Seems you can say and recant anything you wish in Thailand.

Change reality as you go and that's no problem mate !

[T_Dog]

Searching on the name Pornprasit Sukdam will find the article of the guy claiming to have been coerced by police to provide false information.

[catweazle]

Aaaaand the "Koh Tao Handbook of how to not get raped and your face bashed in with a garden hoe" reads:

Rule 1) stay in the party zones only, you enter killzones (rest of Koh Tao) on your own risk.

Rule 2) get into an argument with a family member of the local mafia, call home and say goodbye since basically you are done.
Rule 3) never, ever attempt to disturb a local police officer when in need for help, because they are employees of the people who will kill you anyway.
Rule 4) drop all your valuables in the designated container in your room for easier confiscation by hotel personell after you have been killed.
Rule 5) wear the ugliest and most unsexy dresses you can find, and DON'T even dare to wear makeup to avoid arousing potential killers.
Rule 6) pretend that your marriage, engagement, etc. is an unhappy one to avoid potential killers' jealousy that could lead to your death.
Rule 7) don't wear weapons - makes the killing easier and more fun for your killer.
Rule 8) please be warned that you will be charged with murder if you kill an assailant in self defense. Learn to let go!

Rule 9) please be aware of the fact that the tourist curfew starts at 08:00 p.m. and ends at 07:00 a.m.

Rule 10) give money you would have spent partying during curfew time to the local disco or bar mafiosi in an envelope during day time to keep the Koh Tao economic system in balance.

Many thanks for your support and have a nice holiday!

[DISKO]

Can someone please help to clarify this:

"Police questioned why Wiraphans son Warot, 22 disappeared from the island shortly after the murders however he stated that his son was studying at a university in Bangkok and he was returning to study, not running as the police said."

Now Warot's lawyers have produced time-stamped cctv images to show that he was staying in his Bangkok apartment at the time of the murders. (See unmentionable newspaper website).

So his father, when interviewed, said his son had left the island on the morning of the murder and now the son is producing evidence that he was already in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Seems their stories conflict. Granted, the father may not live with his son and therefore not be aware of all his comings and goings - but he did say that his son returned to Bkk that morning.

How difficult would it be to manipulate cctv images- well, just the time stamp?

Correct me if im wrong but i believe he has other witness's to confirm he was at uni also?

And thats a good point if it was just a cctv he is using it wouldn't be hard at all.

[Tazwa]

Can someone please help to clarify this:

"Police questioned why Wiraphans son Warot, 22 disappeared from the island shortly after the murders however he stated that his son was studying at a university in Bangkok and he was returning to study, not running as the police said."

Now Warot's lawyers have produced time-stamped cctv images to show that he was staying in his Bangkok apartment at the time of the murders. (See unmentionable newspaper website).

So his father, when interviewed, said his son had left the island on the morning of the murder and now the son is producing evidence that he was already in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Seems their stories conflict. Granted, the father may not live with his son and therefore not be aware of all his comings and goings - but he did say that his son returned to Bkk that morning.

How difficult would it be to manipulate cctv images- well, just the time stamp?

Correct me if im wrong but i believe he has other witness's to confirm he was at uni also?

And thats a good point if it was just a cctv he is using it wouldn't be hard at all.

Yes, he has said that he had other witnesses. Unfortunately witnesses can be bought. I believe 700,000 baht is the going rate. Edited September 30, 2014 by Tazwa

[DISKO]

Can someone please help to clarify this:

"Police questioned why Wiraphans son Warot, 22 disappeared from the island shortly after the murders however he stated that his son was studying at a university in Bangkok and he was returning to study, not running as the police said."

Now Warot's lawyers have produced time-stamped cctv images to show that he was staying in his Bangkok apartment at the time of the murders. (See unmentionable newspaper website).

So his father, when interviewed, said his son had left the island on the morning of the murder and now the son is producing evidence that he was already in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Seems their stories conflict. Granted, the father may not live with his son and therefore not be aware of all his comings and goings - but he did say that his son returned to Bkk that morning.

How difficult would it be to manipulate cctv images- well, just the time stamp?

Correct me if im wrong but i believe he has other witness's to confirm he was at uni also?

And thats a good point if it was just a cctv he is using it wouldn't be hard at all.

Yes, he has said that he had other witnesses. Unfortunately witnesses can be bought. I believe 700,000 baht is the going rate.

Agreed. If he's innocent just submit a DNA sample. simple

[Wilsonandson]

The Warot claims of his where about stinks. The CCTV images of the Asian man running is Mon. Mon and Warot killed Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. Want to sue go ahead it's worth paying up for to tell the truth for a change.

[Number 3]

Can someone please help to clarify this:

"Police questioned why Wiraphans son Warot, 22 disappeared from the island shortly after the murders however he stated that his son was studying at a university in Bangkok and he was returning to study, not running as the police said."

Now Warot's lawyers have produced time-stamped cctv images to show that he was staying in his Bangkok apartment at the time of the murders. (See unmentionable newspaper website).

So his father, when interviewed, said his son had left the island on the morning of the murder and now the son is producing evidence that he was already in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Seems their stories conflict. Granted, the father may not live with his son and therefore not be aware of all his comings and goings - but he did say that his son returned to Bkk that morning.

How difficult would it be to manipulate cctv images- well, just the time stamp?

Correct me if im wrong but i believe he has other witness's to confirm he was at uni also?

And thats a good point if it was just a cctv he is using it wouldn't be hard at all.

Yes paid witnesses are a totally new phenomena to Thailand. Especially for a well off family that could pay handsomely. No never heard of that before!

[bunglebag]

I'm almost certain that they didn't share a cigarette as such. It must've been loaded with some sort of highly potent drug. Only in that case sharing make sense. It's highly unusual for men to share cigarettes. (unless they are gay).

To be honest, that guy in the video, looks more like Burmese than Thai. Not defending Thais here but the Burmese are capable of such wicked crimes. For many of them rape is a normal act. I'm not joking. Read it for yourself.

License to rape: How Burma’s military employs systematic sexualized violence

http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/license-to-rape-how-burmas-military-employs-systematic-sexualized-violence

How would be gay make a guy more or less likely to share a ciggie. I would say it something that younger guys might tend to do more than older though, or hard up folk, but sexuality would have nothing to do with sharing a ciggie. One of the silliest things I think I have ever read!

Was not uncommon to go 'twos up' on a ciggie when I was younger (I'm hetero for your info)

[Number 3]

Can someone please help to clarify this:

"Police questioned why Wiraphans son Warot, 22 disappeared from the island shortly after the murders however he stated that his son was studying at a university in Bangkok and he was returning to study, not running as the police said."

Now Warot's lawyers have produced time-stamped cctv images to show that he was staying in his Bangkok apartment at the time of the murders. (See unmentionable newspaper website).

So his father, when interviewed, said his son had left the island on the morning of the murder and now the son is producing evidence that he was already in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Seems their stories conflict. Granted, the father may not live with his son and therefore not be aware of all his comings and goings - but he did say that his son returned to Bkk that morning.

How difficult would it be to manipulate cctv images- well, just the time stamp?

Correct me if im wrong but i believe he has other witness's to confirm he was at uni also?

And thats a good point if it was just a cctv he is using it wouldn't be hard at all.

Yes, he has said that he had other witnesses. Unfortunately witnesses can be bought. I believe 700,000 baht is the going rate.

Agreed. If he's innocent just submit a DNA sample. simple

With a witness present please

[greenchair]

Has everyone seen the latest on BPost?

Former Koh Tao murder 'suspect' confirms innocence Son of island headman says false accusations ruined his life

SMH

the main accusation made against him was that he took a week to hand himself in, he only has himself to blame

Is this the son who is at university in BK? Did he ever hand himself in? I don't think he's ever been DNA tested, so how can he be excluded from the case? I also read that the island headman (the owner of AC bar) has another son.

That's right. He is telling the truth.his son can prove and was at university. HIs other son left the island on the morning of the murders.they are playing games with words. The one that left the island, I dont think gave DNA.

[bunglebag]

Can someone please help to clarify this:

"Police questioned why Wiraphans son Warot, 22 disappeared from the island shortly after the murders however he stated that his son was studying at a university in Bangkok and he was returning to study, not running as the police said."

Now Warot's lawyers have produced time-stamped cctv images to show that he was staying in his Bangkok apartment at the time of the murders. (See unmentionable newspaper website).

So his father, when interviewed, said his son had left the island on the morning of the murder and now the son is producing evidence that he was already in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Seems their stories conflict. Granted, the father may not live with his son and therefore not be aware of all his comings and goings - but he did say that his son returned to Bkk that morning.

How difficult would it be to manipulate cctv images- well, just the time stamp?

Just get the whole family (including those ALLEGEDLY in bangkok at the time) DNAd by some trustworthy party. End of story.

Proof either way and an end to all the conjecture about members of the family. If they were innocent why wouldn't they just even suggest this themselves to stop the finger os suspicion being pointed and spoiling the family name.

Stinks. Stinks something rotten.

Which is the one that may really have been in Bangkok then? Intouch, or one of the others? And which is the one that may have actually left the island on the morning of the murders?

Edited September 30, 2014 by bunglebag

[Number 3]

I'm almost certain that they didn't share a cigarette as such. It must've been loaded with some sort of highly potent drug. Only in that case sharing make sense. It's highly unusual for men to share cigarettes. (unless they are gay).

To be honest, that guy in the video, looks more like Burmese than Thai. Not defending Thais here but the Burmese are capable of such wicked crimes. For many of them rape is a normal act. I'm not joking. Read it for yourself.

License to rape: How Burmas military employs systematic sexualized violence

http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/license-to-rape-how-burmas-military-employs-systematic-sexualized-violence

How would be gay make a guy more or less likely to share a ciggie. I would say it something that younger guys might tend to do more than older though, or hard up folk, but sexuality would have nothing to do with sharing a ciggie. One of the silliest things I think I have ever read!

Was not uncommon to go 'twos up' on a ciggie when I was younger (I'm hetero for your info)

Bungle bag - so if I am Indian and given the prevalence of rape in parts of India as it is would I too be most likely involved in such a situation ? Rape is used as a weapon all over the world and has been for generations. It is a worldwide aberration of manhood. What hope have Burmese workers got here in Thailand.

[Number 3]

I'm almost certain that they didn't share a cigarette as such. It must've been loaded with some sort of highly potent drug. Only in that case sharing make sense. It's highly unusual for men to share cigarettes. (unless they are gay).

To be honest, that guy in the video, looks more like Burmese than Thai. Not defending Thais here but the Burmese are capable of such wicked crimes. For many of them rape is a normal act. I'm not joking. Read it for yourself.

License to rape: How Burmas military employs systematic sexualized violence

http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/license-to-rape-how-burmas-military-employs-systematic-sexualized-violence

How would be gay make a guy more or less likely to share a ciggie. I would say it something that younger guys might tend to do more than older though, or hard up folk, but sexuality would have nothing to do with sharing a ciggie. One of the silliest things I think I have ever read!

Was not uncommon to go 'twos up' on a ciggie when I was younger (I'm hetero for your info)

Bungle bag - so if I am Indian and given the prevalence of rape in parts of India as it is would I too be most likely involved in such a situation ? Rape is used as a weapon all over the world and has been for generations. It is a worldwide aberration of manhood. What hope have Burmese workers got here in Thailand.

Bunglebag - my deepest here. It was mackie I was referring to.

Apologise for the insult to your good character.

[Tazwa]

Pretty sure I've read that Worat did give DNA to police a while back. He was described as arriving on a big motorcycle to do so. It's what happened to the sample afterwards that we question.

[DISKO]

Pretty sure I've read that Worat did give DNA to police a while back. He was described as arriving on a big motorcycle to do so. It's what happened to the sample afterwards that we question.

If warot gave DNA why are they having a media conference holding up cctv images instead of saying "i gave DNA and it dosnt match"!

[ScubaPhuket]

The law in thailand has been developed over the years by criminals for criminals so when it comes to the crunch the corrupt rich, those who make the laws through bribery, are protected. Don't try to equate western ideas of justice & fair play to thailand because thais simply don't understand nor value the concepts. All they value is money & a bastardised version of true buddhism, also developed to suit their needs. Show me a thai with a heart & I'll give you a million baht.