Murder suspects charged

[ParadiseLost]

ThaiVisa members seem disappointed the Killers are not Thai.

There seems to be a real hatred of Thailand and Thai people by many posters here, yet you live in Thailand and probably have a Thai partner, I find that amusing.

Perhaps we hate lies, corruption and sociopath behaviour from the supposed "elite".

Perhaps we are not all easily hoodwinked.

Perhaps we enjoy the freedom to express opinions and enter into debate.

Perhaps we are tired of being treated like second-rate beings and denied all basic rights.

Should I continue? I can...

[coma]

For those posters who seem convinced the headman's son committed the murders, do you really think if he killed the couple he would simply leave the bodies on the beach? With his resources they would surely have taken the bodies out to sea and dumped them, to save his own skin and protect the family business.

What could be worse for an island/ hotel/club or guesthouse than to have2 corpses bludgeoned to death in front of your business that relies on tourists?

Anyone with a vested interest in the island's business would have hidden those bodies if they had been the perpretators.

U dont know that.. if it was his 2 sons they maybe were drunk or on some drugs or idk...

But anyway i have a probably good if not the best question... coz i am always reading about DNA this UK that... so my question to you guys is (hopefully someone is here who knows a bit about the THAI law):

they are now the acused and will have a trial date right? so usually every lawyer has the right to bring expert witnesses into court.. so the easiest way (the UK has her body and the samples of the seamen DNA) is for the lawyer to get an UK expertwitness Scotland Yard or the FBI i read wanted to be involved too and just check the DNA himself with the DNA of these to burmese....

so the question is that possible to bing an expert witness from another country?

The answer of course would be "why not" However do you really think the Thais will care to do anything more than a fast hearing with a faster sentencing just to end the fears of all the Tourism being lost?

Tourism? I wouldn't go there and I hope nobody else does. How can anyone go there knowing two people were brutally killed on the beach?

And more to the point. How could people go there knowing the killers are still on the loose.

[Soutpeel]

ThaiVisa members seem disappointed the Killers are not Thai.

There seems to be a real hatred of Thailand and Thai people by many posters here, yet you live in Thailand and probably have a Thai partner, I find that amusing.

The really funny thing is large numbers of Thai's and even NGO's in Thailand are suggesting this is a stitch up, therefore following your logic, these people have a real hatred of Thailand and the Thai people as well and one suspects they have Thai spouses as well...

The sort on comments coming up on TV are not just restricted to TV members...

so nice try with the "anti-anti Thai comments" but no cigar...

[joecoolfrog]

It is extremely difficult not to be cynical about this outcome , I have my doubts that the accused will be defended in a robust manner unless an outside agency secures representation.

[boomerangutang]

And as to the phone 'found' in bushes behind the suspects lodgings, don't you think it's just too convenient? - And why wasn't the immediate vicinity searched before?

It's been shown, in photos posted today, that the lady victim's phone was on the desk of a police officer, the morning after the crime. There's even corroborating evidence that a friend of the victim gave the phone to police (including its password) immediately after the crime. How it mysteriously got from the policeman's desk to the back of the scapegoats' shack ....I'll let others connect the dots.

...and such evidence won't come up in a trial for the simple reason; THERE WILL BE NO REAL TRIAL. There will be a quick show trial.

And I submit that the guilty Burmese (they're no longer 'suspects', they've already been declared guilty by the powers-that-be) won't be given death sentences, and here are some reasons why:

>>>> the cops know down deep that they're scapegoats, and even they (the cops) might feel a bit chagrined at forcing the Burmese to die for something they didn't do.

>>>> promises of avoiding death was probably one of the ways the cops coerced the admission of guilt. Quite common procedure in Thai crime interrogations.

>>>> if there was money promised (for a guilty plea), then the suspects have a gnat's chance in a bonfire of getting out and spending it.

If I owned a newspaper, I would assign reporters to go and speak with friends of the Burmese 3. Even more prescient would be finding their parents in Burma, and finding what they might say. Could be very interesting. Two possibilities: "our boy said we will get a lot of money." OR "He said he had no choice but to plead guilty, because the police said they would harm his family."

[thesetat2013]

ThaiVisa members seem disappointed the Killers are not Thai.

There seems to be a real hatred of Thailand and Thai people by many posters here, yet you live in Thailand and probably have a Thai partner, I find that amusing.

Maybe if you had a thai partner you would know that many thai people are expressing the same thing in their forums. They dont believe and think these men are scapegoats.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[nontabury]

For those posters who seem convinced the headman's son committed the murders, do you really think if he killed the couple he would simply leave the bodies on the beach? With his resources they would surely have taken the bodies out to sea and dumped them, to save his own skin and protect the family business.

What could be worse for an island/ hotel/club or guesthouse than to have2 corpses bludgeoned to death in front of your business that relies on tourists?

Anyone with a vested interest in the island's business would have hidden those bodies if they had been the perpretators.

U dont know that.. if it was his 2 sons they maybe were drunk or on some drugs or idk...

But anyway i have a probably good if not the best question... coz i am always reading about DNA this UK that... so my question to you guys is (hopefully someone is here who knows a bit about the THAI law):

they are now the acused and will have a trial date right? so usually every lawyer has the right to bring expert witnesses into court.. so the easiest way (the UK has her body and the samples of the seamen DNA) is for the lawyer to get an UK expertwitness Scotland Yard or the FBI i read wanted to be involved too and just check the DNA himself with the DNA of these to burmese....

so the question is that possible to bing an expert witness from another country?

The answer of course would be "why not" However do you really think the Thais will care to do anything more than a fast hearing with a faster sentencing just to end the fears of all the Tourism being lost?

No the thing is... even the stupitest lawyer in the world would do that ... so we can be sure he will do it... so IF it shows that the 2 DNA samples match also with the FBI or Scotland Yard they wont show it (not to intimidate them even more) but we can be sure that they did it even if it will never come out that they did the tests. Probably after all these alligations and stuff the FBI or SY will ask the lawyer themselves if they can be of assitance... so i honestly think 99% sure that they will do it... and if the DNA shows that its a false positive it will come out on court day... and if the DNA matches we will not hear from it but we will all know that they did it.... and to your faster hearing its not about that it would just be one evidence of 1 minute hello we tested it ourselfs and the DNA doesnt match.. thats all

You are of course assuming that Thailand has honest and competant lawyers.

[ffaarraanngg]

And as to the phone 'found' in bushes behind the suspects lodgings, don't you think it's just too convenient? - And why wasn't the immediate vicinity searched before?

It's been shown, in photos posted today, that the lady victim's phone was on the desk of a police officer, the morning after the crime. There's even corroborating evidence that a friend of the victim gave the phone to police (including its password) immediately after the crime. How it mysteriously got from the policeman's desk to the back of the scapegoats' shack ....I'll let others connect the dots.

...and such evidence won't come up in a trial for the simple reason; THERE WILL BE NO REAL TRIAL. There will be a quick show trial.

And I submit that the guilty Burmese (they're no longer 'suspects', they've already been declared guilty by the powers-that-be) won't be given death sentences, and here are some reasons why:

>>>> the cops know down deep that they're scapegoats, and even they (the cops) might feel a bit chagrined at forcing the Burmese to die for something they didn't do.

>>>> promises of avoiding death was probably one of the ways the cops coerced the admission of guilt. Quite common procedure in Thai crime interrogations.

>>>> if there was money promised (for a guilty plea), then the suspects have a gnat's chance in a bonfire of getting out and spending it.

If I owned a newspaper, I would assign reporters to go and speak with friends of the Burmese 3. Even more prescient would be finding their parents in Burma, and finding what they might say. Could be very interesting. Two possibilities: "our boy said we will get a lot of money." OR "He said he had no choice but to plead guilty, because the police said they would harm his family."

Do you really think theyll be giving him phone calls and contact with the outside world?

[Asiantravel]

What is wrong with some of you lot???Cynical is not the right word. You talk down the Thai legal system as if the whole thing is riddled with crooks and fools. If they were after scapegoates it would not take so long to find them.If you really distrust Thailand so much maybe you would feel better back in your own country. All this sneering and conspiricy nonsense does not show much class and is an affront to the millions of honest decent Thai's. Or perhaps some of you only mingle in the lower quarters of the country and really don't know any better.

What is wrong with some of us lot talking down the Thai legal system you ask ?

Well just for starters , what about the Thai taxi driver “Pornprasit Sukdam, 37″ who was arrested and beaten by the local police who then offered him 700,000 baht to give false evidence. He was then beaten when he didn’t comply. He stated that he knows nothing about the incident. He decided to tell his story to the media since the police planned to interrogate him again and he feared being beaten up again.

[nontabury]

I can just imagine leaving the phone of the person I just murdered in my backyard.. lol

I agree, however lets not forget that whoever did commit this crime, were so stupid that they left at least one of the murder weapons at the scene, so We could be wrong.

[nontabury]

What is wrong with some of you lot???Cynical is not the right word. You talk down the Thai legal system as if the whole thing is riddled with crooks and fools. If they were after scapegoates it would not take so long to find them.If you really distrust Thailand so much maybe you would feel better back in your own country. All this sneering and conspiricy nonsense does not show much class and is an affront to the millions of honest decent Thai's. Or perhaps some of you only mingle in the lower quarters of the country and really don't know any better.

What about the many respectable and honest Thais who also talk down the Thai legal system, knowing full well how corrupt it is, Where should they go?.

[Soutpeel]

You are of course assuming that Thailand has honest and competant lawyers.

....actually there are some honest, (well as honest as lawyer can be) competent lawyers in Thailand

however they will not get representation by these lawyers unless they have USD 300-500/hr to spend

[spidermike007]

will the owner of the AC Bar be liable in a civil lawsuit by the families of the victims for knowingly employing illegal immigrants ?

Sorry to accuse you of posting a ridiculous question, but we all now see that this entire episode has demonstrated that he, and his entire family are above all laws in Thailand. So, the answer is of course not. Nobody will touch this guy. Nobody. Not the army, not the police. Not the central govt. Nobody. OK? Got it now?

[Pundi6446]

LOL looks like a lot of people in here know the Thai Police well, I feel the very same way, it truly sounds like fabricated Bull Dung to me, after all high season is just around the corner.

[heyexile]

All convenient and nicely wrapped up which of course everyone will accept without question.

What remains now is for them to plead guilty so little or no evidence, other than their ' confession ' needs to be produced and tested in court and they will hope their confession will be taken into account so they don't face the death penalty for screwing with Thais losing money over tourism, maybe that's part of the deal already.

I still have a few questions.

"Tip-off from Myanmar workers on Koh Tao played key role in arrests"...that is likely the KEY sentence in the report.

On Sept 26,...12 days into the investigation of the gisly murders of two, in-shape British backpackers, the reward for any "clue leading to the arrest of the murderers" rose Bt700,000 baht,...a super lottery win for any Myanmar National and their family.

The two scrawny Myanmar confessors,...who viciously attacked the faces of the Brits, which is a profile indication of personal anger,...were dwarfed by the 200 short statured Thai police surrounding them. Suspect Win appears to be less than 40kg....whereas the fit male Brit backpacker was nearly 90kg.

Looking foward to see if any independent, non-NCPO review will occur.

"Before martial law was declared, Gen Prayuth told me "Khun Suthep and your masses of PDRC supporters are too exhausted. It's now the duty of the army to take over the task," Mr Suthep said.

Good point about the reward incentive but just because there is a reward does not mean the informant is making it all up.

Not sure about the Suthep ref. You may get some flack for that!

Are you alluding to the "my Uncle" Suthep remarks allegedly made by a former suspect and `influential person`?

[durianfan]

The Daily Mail website has been blocked. I still was able to access it via VPN. The article reporting this BS ends like this:

There has also been growing criticism over the standard of the investigation, from not sealing off the crime scene quickly enough to letting potential suspects leave the island.

Migrant workers, particularly from neighbouring Myanmar, have been used as scapegoats for crimes in Thailand.

The rape and murder of 23-year-old Welsh backpacker Kirsty Jones in 2000 was blamed on an ethnic guide from Myanmar who was beaten by police in an attempt to coerce a confession.

Despite a number of arrests, no charges have ever been brought over her death.

[monk213]

If they can plant phones they can plant DNA. I wouldn't trust any DNA results from any agency or country because the DNA itself is suspect imo

[canuckamuck]

For those posters who seem convinced the headman's son committed the murders, do you really think if he killed the couple he would simply leave the bodies on the beach? With his resources they would surely have taken the bodies out to sea and dumped them, to save his own skin and protect the family business.

What could be worse for an island/ hotel/club or guesthouse than to have2 corpses bludgeoned to death in front of your business that relies on tourists?

Anyone with a vested interest in the island's business would have hidden those bodies if they had been the perpretators.

The simple explanation would be that they fully understood that they would never be charged. Quite probably this was not their first crime scene either. Best thing to do would be to just walk away, or catch a boat out of there, and let your good friends in brown sort it out. Very few people on the island would be in a position of such confidence after a double homicide.

Also, at 4AM you got maybe 2 hours to round up a boat and do a cleanup before daylight, and all that activity is sure to get noticed. The predictable thing to do would be to walk away get cleaned up and act real surprised when you hear the news.

[boomerangutang]

re; the images of wounds on the male victim, and suppositions that it was a small stout blade held between knuckles of a fist (I don't know its name). There's a forensic way to test that if the body is on hand: Take a metal with a low melting point, like aluminum. Heat a small amount and pour in to open wound.

Though it's probably too late now, I wonder, has the seabed been searched near the site? Also, if it turns out the wounds match that sort of weapon, is there a way to find out if perhaps any male relations of the headman had such weapons? You could ask their friends, but it's doubtful they would tell the truth.

Also, what update on the 2nd supposed weapon - a stick. Apparently the re-enactment didn't include that weapon, which was mentioned daily during the week following the crime.

All in all, it looks increasingly like Thai authorities (with pressure from the headman, to absolve his brood) concocted a scenario, and then proceeded to craft everything after that to comply with the scenario. No matter that the clues we heard about in the first two weeks don't often match the clues we hear since the Burmese 3 were found guilty. Also, the DNA trail has been badly handled for too many reasons to list here. It could fill a small book.

[Lancashireman]

What is wrong with some of you lot???Cynical is not the right word. You talk down the Thai legal system as if the whole thing is riddled with crooks and fools. If they were after scapegoates it would not take so long to find them.If you really distrust Thailand so much maybe you would feel better back in your own country. All this sneering and conspiricy nonsense does not show much class and is an affront to the millions of honest decent Thai's. Or perhaps some of you only mingle in the lower quarters of the country and really don't know any better.

[AGareth2]

blood on the hoe could be from the sand

[Lancashireman]

What is wrong with some of you lot???Cynical is not the right word. You talk down the Thai legal system as if the whole thing is riddled with crooks and fools. If they were after scapegoates it would not take so long to find them.If you really distrust Thailand so much maybe you would feel better back in your own country. All this sneering and conspiricy nonsense does not show much class and is an affront to the millions of honest decent Thai's. Or perhaps some of you only mingle in the lower quarters of the country and really don't know any better.

Exactly...'their' line between reality and fantasy is a cloudy mess of self-indulged bilge. Solved nowt, they never will.

[media]

WHY DID THEY GET THEM TO REENACT IT TOGETHER!???

Should have been done separate to coo-berate the truth

[boomerangutang]

What is wrong with some of you lot???Cynical is not the right word. You talk down the Thai legal system as if the whole thing is riddled with crooks and fools. If they were after scapegoats it would not take so long to find them.If you really distrust Thailand so much maybe you would feel better back in your own country. All this sneering and conspiricy nonsense does not show much class and is an affront to the millions of honest decent Thai's. Or perhaps some of you only mingle in the lower quarters of the country and really don't know any better.

Here's what's wrong with me: I don't like seeing innocents framed for a crime they didn't commit. If the Burmese 3 had attorneys and were convicted in a court of law with compelling evidence, then I'd go along with it. But instead they've been convicted under coersion and with flimsy evidence. Some of that 'evidence' has likely been planted. The convicted 3 have no voice, no advocates, and can't even understand what's going on because of language barrier.

As for Thai attorneys: I've know adept ones, and inept ones, and have heard/seen convincing evidence of corrupt ones. I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I'd say it was a mixed bag.

Where are the 'lower quarters of the country'? I reside in uppermost Thailand at over 2,000 meters above sea level. How can I be mingling in a lower quarter? Are you in a higher quarter than that?

[MikePhuket1970]

WHY DID THEY GET THEM TO REENACT IT TOGETHER!???

Should have been done separate to coo-berate the truth

You are funny.

Nobody from the authorities want the truth.

Truth would stop many cash checks change hands.

[boomerangutang]

WHY DID THEY GET THEM TO REENACT IT TOGETHER!???

Should have been done separate to coo-berate the truth

If it was a real re-enactment, it should have been just the suspects (one at a time, or together) going through the motions. What's the definition of reenactment? It's the perpetrators re-enacting their movements during the crime. However, what transpired was ridiculous in the extreme. Dozens of cops shouting directions, pointing where the suspects were supposed to go, physically moving the suspects' body parts one way and another. I could get a dog and a pony to re-enact the crime in that fashion if I had enough helpers.

It would have been a farcial comedy except that it revolved around innocents who are facing death penalties.

[culicine]

Some interesting reading on CSI LA on facebook. Many of the wounds on David do not appear to have been made with the hoe. When Sean McAnna as sitting in the songtaw, he had a similar wound on his arm. There appears a lot more to this incident than is being told to the public.

[fish fingers]

personally think the murderers were high on drugs/drink, angry, possibly on a mission for vengeance. There has to have been a motive for such grizzly murders.

I hope an up and coming criminal lawyer is temped to take this case, that would be interesting

[Wilsonandson]

Was Hannah's mobile phone handed to the police 2 days after the murder by her friend before she left for the UK? Was this phone then planted in the garden next to Win's apartment?

Twitter link :- https://mobile.twitter.com/cm_mcv/status/518079919801110529?utm_source=fb&utm_content=518246232456560640&utm_campaign=worrarit&utm_medium=fb

[Tazwa]

ThaiVisa members seem disappointed the Killers are not Thai.

There seems to be a real hatred of Thailand and Thai people by many posters here, yet you live in Thailand and probably have a Thai partner, I find that amusing.

No, just a hatred of unjust processes and half-wits like you.