Alan Henning 'killed by Islamic State'

[MJP]

UK jihadist turned charity worker Manwar Ali

A former jihadist who fought on the frontline in Afghanistan, Kashmir and Burma in the 1980s is urging young Muslims not to join the conflict in Syria and Iraq.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29495424

[Chicog]

I'm afraid I don't have much faith that what Imams say for the papers is what they say in the Friday sermons.

[MJP]

I'm afraid I don't have much faith that what Imams say for the papers is what they say in the Friday sermons.

I don't really. I've yet to see an outpouring of anti-extremism from British Muslims the same as two million British people marching against the Iraq war.

[chooka]

Fake. Yet another excuse to go to war in the middle east.

The families of those butchered by these fake killers that it has all just been fake and a joke. Good to here they will all be back together for Xmas.

[kurnell]

Fake. Yet another excuse to go to war in the middle east.

The families of those butchered by these fake killers that it has all just been fake and a joke. Good to here they will all be back together for Xmas.

Not saying they are dead/alive. The videos are staged is what I'm saying.

[Jingthing]

I think this discussion covers many of the points being discussed here rather well. (I agree with Bill Maher):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduMMteTEbc

[Ulysses G.]

Bill Mayer makes sense when it comes to Islam. Affleck is living in a dream world.

[jacky54]

Crocodile tears as usual, it's just PR for the media, they don't really care about any victims of Islam. Any links from Muslims condemning the Koranic suras that motivate be headings and jihad? no I thought not, that's your real problem.

Maybe you should read and listen to what the people in all the links provided are saying rather than posting your usual ignorant, knee jerk "they are lying" reaction.

Have a listen to the Imam in the BBC link; he quotes Mohammed directly when condemning IS (from 1:50)

No he does not quote Mohammed at all, there is not one scriptural reference, just a vague the Prophet warned us against people like this, I think the prophet was warning against people like this Imam. Before this he lies when he says Islam is a religion of compassion and forgiveness, does this comedian think people are still stupid enough to fall for these kind of lies?

[simple1]

Crocodile tears as usual, it's just PR for the media, they don't really care about any victims of Islam. Any links from Muslims condemning the Koranic suras that motivate be headings and jihad? no I thought not, that's your real problem.

Maybe you should read and listen to what the people in all the links provided are saying rather than posting your usual ignorant, knee jerk "they are lying" reaction.

Have a listen to the Imam in the BBC link; he quotes Mohammed directly when condemning IS (from 1:50)

No he does not quote Mohammed at all, there is not one scriptural reference, just a vague the Prophet warned us against people like this, I think the prophet was warning against people like this Imam. Before this he lies when he says Islam is a religion of compassion and forgiveness, does this comedian think people are still stupid enough to fall for these kind of lies?

People will interpret or emphasis passages in the Koran for their own individual moral and ethical beliefs. Those that choose to concentrate of the positive, rather than the negative are not 'wrong' and deserve support, not perpetual accusations of lying that only leads to more conflict within society.

Those of the Muslim community speaking out against the cruel and vicious murder of Alan Henning, as against the teachings of Islam would, I suggest, have in mind the 100 plus instructions in the Koran to be kind, compassionate and merciful. e.g.

The reward of goodness is nothing but goodness. (Al Quran 55:61)

Edited October 6, 2014 by simple1

[H1w4yR1da]

The reward of goodness is nothing but goodness. (Al Quran 55:61)

Am I the only one around here who finds quoting passages from the Koran on a thread about a westerner beheaded by an Islamist rather distasteful?

[simple1]

The reward of goodness is nothing but goodness. (Al Quran 55:61)

Am I the only one around here who finds quoting passages from the Koran on a thread about a westerner beheaded by an Islamist rather distasteful?

So it's only acceptable to provide links to hate sites / speakers that focus on the negative, such as religionofpeace? I find this distasteful, as are the constant attempts to shut down opinions, with false accusations, that do not exactly match your and others rhetoric.

[jacky54]

Crocodile tears as usual, it's just PR for the media, they don't really care about any victims of Islam. Any links from Muslims condemning the Koranic suras that motivate be headings and jihad? no I thought not, that's your real problem.

Maybe you should read and listen to what the people in all the links provided are saying rather than posting your usual ignorant, knee jerk "they are lying" reaction.

Have a listen to the Imam in the BBC link; he quotes Mohammed directly when condemning IS (from 1:50)

No he does not quote Mohammed at all, there is not one scriptural reference, just a vague the Prophet warned us against people like this, I think the prophet was warning against people like this Imam. Before this he lies when he says Islam is a religion of compassion and forgiveness, does this comedian think people are still stupid enough to fall for these kind of lies?

People will interpret or emphasis passages in the Koran for their own individual moral and ethical beliefs. Those that choose to concentrate of the positive, rather than the negative are not 'wrong' and deserve support, not perpetual accusations of lying that only leads to more conflict within society.

Those of the Muslim community speaking out against the cruel and vicious murder of Alan Henning, as against the teachings of Islam would, I suggest, have in mind the 100 plus instructions in the Koran to be kind, compassionate and merciful. e.g.

The reward of goodness is nothing but goodness. (Al Quran 55:61)

That is not what he quoted and guess what there are even more suras instructing the faithful to kill and be violent than there are to be kind so is Allah a bit schizophrenic flip flopping like this. I could interpret that quote as meaning killing for Allah is goodness.You got one thing right at last people will interpret the Koran, some even literally which is hardly surprising as it is meant to be the word of god. So when god tells them to persecute the unbeliever, that Muslims are the best of people and unbelievers are the worst, when it explicitly tells people to behead, crucify and cut off arms and legs on opposite sides, guess what it's taken as literal, there is no need to interpret it as it's gods word.

Those involved in Islamic violence over the centuries are the victims of Islam just as much as the millions killed. Sorry but quoting a few 'compassionate' fluffy suras is not any help the the bereaved.

Are you on the night shift again?

Edited October 6, 2014 by jacky54

[H1w4yR1da]

The reward of goodness is nothing but goodness. (Al Quran 55:61)

Am I the only one around here who finds quoting passages from the Koran on a thread about a westerner beheaded by an Islamist rather distasteful?

So it's only acceptable to provide links to hate sites / speakers that focus on the negative, such as religionofpeace? I find this distasteful, as are the constant attempts to shut down opinions, with false accusations, that do not exactly match your and others rhetoric.

Speaking of 'shutting down opinions', an Islamist supporter; much like yourself, has managed to get 2 TV threads on radical Islam closed due to his constant flaming.

[Ulysses G.]

Give simple1 a break guys. He is nothing like the some of the hateful loons that post on these threads. I often disagree with his opinions, but he is sensible and mostly polite and - IMO - has good intentions. There are posters that deserve to be scorned, but he is not one of them.

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts and replies removed.

[Scott]

This is the final warning. Continued blanket anti-islamic posts and comments will result in suspension.

There will be no further notices of posts being removed.

You might want to re-read the OP and stay on topic.

[ChiangMaiFalung]

Peace through fire superiority.

[7by7]

<snip>

Please show me outcries and mass demonstrations like those the Muslims do for silly cartoons.......

French Muslims Protest Against Islamic State

Hundreds of French Muslims took to the streets of Paris and elsewhere in France on Friday to protest against Islamic State......

The French gatherings follow a U.K.-launched campaigndubbed "Not In My Name" in which Muslims posted videos on Twitter and other social networks dissociating themselves from terrorist groups.

Various Muslim associations have called for a large demonstration against violence on Sunday in downtown Paris.

German Muslims hold day of protest against ISIS jihadists

The so-called 'Day of Action' involved nine large rallies in cities across Germany, including Berlin, Stuttgart, Hanover, and Mölln......

The campaign was welcomed by the president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Dieter Graumann.

"It is good that Muslim associations are putting up a fight against the terrorism of fanatical Islamists," Graumann told Deutsche Welle.

Muslims Against ISIS Bring The Protests Fox News Says Dont Exist

Even though the hawks continue to ignore such protests and statements against ISIS, they are very real throughout the Muslim world, including in the West. Last week, a massive demonstration in Dearborn, Michigan, a city which is home to one of United States largest Muslim populations, the Islamic community united in one voice to denounce ISIS as enemies of humanity.

The local Detroit Free Press reports that Muslim leaders gathered Monday on the steps of Dearborn City Hall to strongly condemn ISIS, saying the militant group in Iraq and Syria doesnt represent Islam or Muslims.

[7by7]

To add to the above (forum software wouldn't let me include the quote in the above).


The Big Lie About Muslim Silence on Terrorism

Since before 2001, every single major Muslim group in the United States has been outspoken in their condemnation of terrorism and the murder of innocent people in the name of Islam. And yet the media ignores it. Every single time.

Don’t believe me?

Go to http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

That site lists links to dozens of major Muslims group and Islamic scholars who have condemned terrorism as a violation of the fundamental moral precepts of Islam.

Want more?

Here’s a compilation of Islamic fatwas against terrorism by Juan Cole, scholar of the Middle East and author of Engaging the Muslim World.

http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/friedman-wrong-about-muslims-again-and.html

[jacky54]

They are still not condemning the koran and the life of the prophet though are they and this is what is motivating the jihadists who are causing such terror in the world. No matter how many meaningless fatwas and people claiming it's not in their name your can post that does not alter the koran or life of the prophet which inspires those beheading people

Edited October 6, 2014 by jacky54

[Jingthing]

They are still not condemning the koran and the life of the prophet though are they and this is what is motivating the jihadists who are causing such terror in the world. No matter how many meaningless fatwas and people claiming it's not in their name your can post that does not alter the koran or life of the prophet which inspires those beheading people

That is unrealistic. You can't kill all the Muslims or expect Muslims to stop be Muslims and to stop worshiping their holy book, prophet, or whatever. The ONLY hope for the long term is a growth of a more MODERATE Islam, but that's not easy when you've got the thug element willing to kill such people in many countries. Not to mention the disturbing percentage of Muslims globally who think the death penalty is justified for a person LEAVING Islam.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

Yet in spite of all these exhortations to cease and desist, the Islamic radicals never seem to get the message and the terrorism, beheadings and all the other atrocities that were being committed, continue to be committed.

The only explanation I can come up with is the tiny portion of the 1.62 billion Muslims in the world that consider themselves radical Islamists, really don't care what the majority seems to think.

Assuming that same tiny portion of the total world population of Muslims that would be considered radical is even one-tenth of one percent, this presents them with an army of 1,620,000 potential Jihadists and suicide bombers.

This number would give them an army roughly equal to the populations of Phoenix, AZ, Philadelphia, PA, Madrid, Spain or the Gaza Strip.

Words don't seem to be having much of an impact on this group of radicals.

[7by7]

They are still not condemning the koran and the life of the prophet though are they and this is what is motivating the jihadists who are causing such terror in the world. No matter how many meaningless fatwas and people claiming it's not in their name your can post that does not alter the koran or life of the prophet which inspires those beheading people

Typical response from the hate mates.

You demand that ordinary Muslims protest against extremism, and when shown that they do, and have been doing so for many years, dismiss their protests!

Because, of course, it disproves your prejudices.

There are many things which motivate terrorists.

There are Christian terrorists operating in the Congo.

There are radical Christians in America firebombing family planning clinics and killing doctors, for example the murder of Dr. George Tiller by a member of the radical Christian Montana Freemen.

Should we therefore condemn what motivates them; the bible and the life of Jesus?

People who use their religion to justify their violence have perverted that religion; whatever that religion happens to be.

[jacky54]

They are still not condemning the koran and the life of the prophet though are they and this is what is motivating the jihadists who are causing such terror in the world. No matter how many meaningless fatwas and people claiming it's not in their name your can post that does not alter the koran or life of the prophet which inspires those beheading people

Typical response from the hate mates.

You demand that ordinary Muslims protest against extremism, and when shown that they do, and have been doing so for many years, dismiss their protests!

Because, of course, it disproves your prejudices.

There are many things which motivate terrorists.

There are Christian terrorists operating in the Congo.

There are radical Christians in America firebombing family planning clinics and killing doctors, for example the murder of Dr. George Tiller by a member of the radical Christian Montana Freemen.

Should we therefore condemn what motivates them; the bible and the life of Jesus?

People who use their religion to justify their violence have perverted that religion; whatever that religion happens to be.

You are off on your favourite lie again calling posters here haters when they are not, and secondly we have the worn out what about the Christians who have bombed a very few abortion clinics in the past, not exactly convincing anyone, except to reinforce you blind faith in the worth of Islam. Despite the overwhelming evidence from history and today that Islam has little to offer as a civilising force, and much to offer as a backward, divisive and violent creed. We are lucky I suppose that relatively few actually join Allahs army of death.

[Ulysses G.]

You demand that ordinary Muslims protest against extremism, and when shown that they do, and have been doing so for many years, dismiss their protests!

I think it is great when ordinary Muslims protest against extremism. I also think that it is a very tiny minority, that you try to present as being much more significant that they are, in order to minimize the impact of the radicals and their supporters and the doctrine of Islam itself.

[chuckd]

They are still not condemning the koran and the life of the prophet though are they and this is what is motivating the jihadists who are causing such terror in the world. No matter how many meaningless fatwas and people claiming it's not in their name your can post that does not alter the koran or life of the prophet which inspires those beheading people

Typical response from the hate mates.

You demand that ordinary Muslims protest against extremism, and when shown that they do, and have been doing so for many years, dismiss their protests!

Because, of course, it disproves your prejudices.

There are many things which motivate terrorists.

There are Christian terrorists operating in the Congo.

There are radical Christians in America firebombing family planning clinics and killing doctors, for example the murder of Dr. George Tiller by a member of the radical Christian Montana Freemen.

Should we therefore condemn what motivates them; the bible and the life of Jesus?

People who use their religion to justify their violence have perverted that religion; whatever that religion happens to be.

Your argument does you no favors.

There have been a total of eight (8) abortion providers or aides killed in the US and Canada from 1993 to 2009. None have been killed since Dr. Tiller in May 2009. All eight (8) murderers have been apprehended, tried and either executed, died in prison or are still serving their life sentences.

My guess, and it will remain unsubstantiated, is we could find at least one ISIS brother in Iraq that has killed more than eight (8) innocents before breakfast today...and absolutely nothing will be done to punish him.

Radical Islam is the problem of the day, not Christianity from years past.

[arjunadawn]

Maybe you should read and listen to what the people in all the links provided are saying rather than posting your usual ignorant, knee jerk "they are lying" reaction.

Have a listen to the Imam in the BBC link; he quotes Mohammed directly when condemning IS (from 1:50)

No he does not quote Mohammed at all, there is not one scriptural reference, just a vague the Prophet warned us against people like this, I think the prophet was warning against people like this Imam. Before this he lies when he says Islam is a religion of compassion and forgiveness, does this comedian think people are still stupid enough to fall for these kind of lies?

People will interpret or emphasis passages in the Koran for their own individual moral and ethical beliefs. Those that choose to concentrate of the positive, rather than the negative are not 'wrong' and deserve support, not perpetual accusations of lying that only leads to more conflict within society.

Those of the Muslim community speaking out against the cruel and vicious murder of Alan Henning, as against the teachings of Islam would, I suggest, have in mind the 100 plus instructions in the Koran to be kind, compassionate and merciful. e.g.

The reward of goodness is nothing but goodness. (Al Quran 55:61)

Actually, islamic exegesis does not work this way- chosing to intrepret good or bad. The mandate is to follow the words and life of their prophet in order to best emulate what their god desire's of them. There are nearly 80 or so suras that represent the difficult times Islam had in Medina in the early days. After approx this point the suras become profoundly horrible, and warlike- reflecting their final rise to power and assualt and slaughter of Mecca. Thus when weak the suras demand tolerance and getting a long, and when strong the mandate is to kill and jihad against infidels and children of the book.

The reason this context is important is because the notion that extremists choose to "intrepret" wrong is fallacious; they do not. The Koran is understood by abrogation, even their prophet told them this. Therefore, later commands that are contrary to earlier commands take priority. Mohhamed said god has the right to revise his mandates and so the later, Mecca, Suras have priority. These are the Sword sura, etc., commanding a house of war Dar al harb until their is global islam, dar al salam.

I understand poster's suspicion that parts of the koran are intrepreted wrong, but they rarely are. To this point the koran is not the only book, for example the Hadith is in many ways just as important- the life of the prophet. Here too it is his later days, slaughtering just about everyone, that defines his age. Minor points regarding my post could be argued, but I am correct about the nature of withdrawing information from Islamic texts.

[arjunadawn]

You demand that ordinary Muslims protest against extremism, and when shown that they do, and have been doing so for many years, dismiss their protests!

I think it is great when ordinary Muslims protest against extremism. I also think that it is a very tiny minority, that you try to present as being much more significant that they are, in order to minimize the impact of the radicals and their supporters and the doctrine of Islam itself.

Yes, 7x7, there are some who protest what has been done "in their name." In the US there is a guy named Zhudi Jasser who has articulatly protested extremism for some time (great smart voice on this issue). He says he is devout but frankly, devout is a state of orthodoxy; he is not orthodox, and herein lies the problem. The "moderate muslims" are agreeable to those who cannot begin to grasp what they are actually witnessing. The foundation of their ideology is political. military, social, judicial, and religious insofr as it has orthodox rituals and public coercian. Moderate muslims hardly have the passive or active support from other muslims because they actually can apply little scripiture to their positions. Nearly all (though not all) jihadis cite scriptural authority. This creates a bit of a quandry for muslim scholars to maintain their relevance and legitimacy.

[Thorgal]

Maybe you should read and listen to what the people in all the links provided are saying rather than posting your usual ignorant, knee jerk "they are lying" reaction.

Have a listen to the Imam in the BBC link; he quotes Mohammed directly when condemning IS (from 1:50)

No he does not quote Mohammed at all, there is not one scriptural reference, just a vague the Prophet warned us against people like this, I think the prophet was warning against people like this Imam. Before this he lies when he says Islam is a religion of compassion and forgiveness, does this comedian think people are still stupid enough to fall for these kind of lies?

People will interpret or emphasis passages in the Koran for their own individual moral and ethical beliefs. Those that choose to concentrate of the positive, rather than the negative are not 'wrong' and deserve support, not perpetual accusations of lying that only leads to more conflict within society.

Those of the Muslim community speaking out against the cruel and vicious murder of Alan Henning, as against the teachings of Islam would, I suggest, have in mind the 100 plus instructions in the Koran to be kind, compassionate and merciful. e.g.

The reward of goodness is nothing but goodness. (Al Quran 55:61)

Actually, islamic exegesis does not work this way- chosing to intrepret good or bad. The mandate is to follow the words and life of their prophet in order to best emulate what their god desire's of them. There are nearly 80 or so suras that represent the difficult times Islam had in Medina in the early days. After approx this point the suras become profoundly horrible, and warlike- reflecting their final rise to power and assualt and slaughter of Mecca. Thus when weak the suras demand tolerance and getting a long, and when strong the mandate is to kill and jihad against infidels and children of the book.

The reason this context is important is because the notion that extremists choose to "intrepret" wrong is fallacious; they do not. The Koran is understood by abrogation, even their prophet told them this. Therefore, later commands that are contrary to earlier commands take priority. Mohhamed said god has the right to revise his mandates and so the later, Mecca, Suras have priority. These are the Sword sura, etc., commanding a house of war Dar al harb until their is global islam, dar al salam.

I understand poster's suspicion that parts of the koran are intrepreted wrong, but they rarely are. To this point the koran is not the only book, for example the Hadith is in many ways just as important- the life of the prophet. Here too it is his later days, slaughtering just about everyone, that defines his age. Minor points regarding my post could be argued, but I am correct about the nature of withdrawing information from Islamic texts.

You've tried to describe in vain some authentic parts of the Quran and Sunnah without proper knowledge.

You've just took it out of its proper context and interpretation, giving it a totally different meaning.

The Sword is a symbol of Justice in Islam. Not as a symbol of horrible war as you describe.

You try to supersize the horror by inventing 'a mandate to kill and jihad against infidels AND children...

By the way, what is the link with the killing of Alan Henning ?

[Thai at Heart]

Bill Mayer makes sense when it comes to Islam. Affleck is living in a dream world.

Bill Mayer may not be 100% correct, but affleck is a schoolboy.