Thailand beach murders: Police defend bizarre public 'reconstruction' of slayings by suspects

[Patje]

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?share_id=aZuViSvyXl&utm_campaign=share_button_action_box&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

[Graham8888]

Go or just sit on your hands and do nothing- host country ? I have paid taxes etc here for 20 years and think we are all entitled to speak out against possible injustice, if you don't like it then why are you entitled to an opinion more than anyone else ?

[quandow]

"But tonight friends of the accused claimed they had been rounded up by police and tortured with boiling water to implicate Saw, Wyn and a third man in the killing."

Along with the taxi driver who claimed he was pummeled into claiming HE was the guilty party, well then, no one can truly be implicated in this crime.

Problem solved - no one did it and let's get on with charging tourists an entry fee to make up for the loss of business due to the crime that didn't happen after all.

<deleted> . . .

[JenniferSG]

Please, can a real journalist look into a few basic questions and publish in a major newspaper?

1. Is it true that the victim's phone was handed over to police by her friend the day after the murder? Is this is same phone the police claim was found behind the room belonging to the suspects?

2. Since the suspects worked at the very same bar that the victims were at that night, and since they didn't flee, how is it possible that the initial blanket DNA tests did not find a match?!?

3. Is it true that relatives of prominent families on the island were exempted from giving DNA? If so, why? What law requires poor people to give DNA, but excuses rich people.

I know there are many, many more unanswered questions, but these stand out for me.

I would happily donate to a legal fund for defense for these guys. Perhaps an NGO can set that up here?

This might help to answer your question one. It is the victims phone been handed over to police as stated by her friend.

Regarding question # 3, if this is indeed a stitch up, the police would require the DNA of the real perps to get their match, as mentioned earlier the samples have been sent to Singapore so no chance of manipulating them, only way to get a match is to have samples from the killers so maybe they have given samples just not publicly.

relatives of prominent families refused to give DNA, an act which would have immediately cleared them of suspicion.

I can think of 2 reasons not to give DNA, one obvious - they did it and the 2nd is it may have been able to link them to other past or future crimes as usually DNA records are held on file.

Another reason to not give DNA is if you fear it will implicate a family members, as your DNA will show a substantial link to the match.

[RigPig]

Another saying comes to mind, I won't quote anyone this time as I blew it last time, however.....

"Justice must not only be done but it must be sen to be done..."

[Adeeos]

Proverbs 24:20 For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.

Evil men will be rewarded, one way or the other. God will reward wicked men with grief, pain, and death. He will cut their lives off and send their souls down to eternal torment.

This verse is the second half of a proverb. Here is the first half: “Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked” (Pr 24:19). You should not worry or be jealous watching evil men prosper; God will not allow them to have a good ending.

When Solomon wrote here that an evil man will have no reward, he meant a good reward; he meant blessing and favor from heaven. God will not reward evil men with such good things – He will reward them with punishment to painfully destroy them, as stated in the last clause. God will put out their candle: He will end their wicked lives.

inocent

You're ACTUALLY quoting scripture?.... REALLY?,,,, Where was your "God",,, while these innocent people were getting VIOLENTLY MURDERED/RAPED?!?!?!,,,,, And those that did this,,, are STILL walking free!,,,,,, give me/US a FREAKING BREAK!...

[Mackie]

I don't know if anything can be done any longer but I urge any one of you here to do your bit and sign the petition.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

[yougivemebaby]

It just doesn't add-up, apparently many slits were found in different parts of the male's head. A weapon other than a hoe was used?

I found this on CSI LA Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210

And this was the attached text

"

<<<< Thai language removed >>>>

Sean did not tell everything and wasn't completely honest in his interview. His wound did not come from a bike accident. Sean was likely present... when the struggle took place between David and his assailants. The cut wounds on Sean's right arm and right leg are nearly a perfect match with the wound found on David. I believe Sean was trying to stop the fight between David and the perpetrators. Therefore, the likelihood is almost certain that Sean knows who played a part in David's murder (and possibly Hannah's as well). So ... why did the authorities allow Sean to leave the country?"

All concerned people on here could also sign the petition.

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?recruiter=88859042&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

So you're saying Sean was present while David and Hannah were having sex? He was watching? Then these other guys show up with a little knife and stab sean once in the arm and once in the leg. He gets away and waits several days before saying anything? That's a bit far fetched. What kind of idiot would use a tiny knife when the hoe was the obvious weapon. Look at Davids wound in the back of his head. It's a circular wound from the blunt end of the hoe. A tiny knife would be the dumbest thing to use in an attack. Plus someone would have heard a fight ensue. I'm sure David would have scream it he was stabbed with a knife. DOn't believe that idiot on FB CSILA. He knows dick about real forensics. (Yes I do know about forensics)

[phuketandsee]

Sadly this will fade from view in Thailand very soon as it looks like Elvis is about to leave the building - if he has not done so already. As for tourism, that will drop off a cliff if they ban alcohol sales for 999 days as is rumored.

[yougivemebaby]

What possible reason would you have to say they have been set up?

original DNA did not match, now it does

They did not run, probably at least one would have if guilty

phone was handed into the police day after murder but the Police claimed they found it near the accused huts recently (a miracle)

only the day before the arrests the police tried to bribe a taxi driver to commit give false witness then beat him up when he refused

DNA from the chiefs brat never taken

They will not allow independent verification of the DNA 'match'

Police have a long record of fitting people up, especially the poor and foreign

They collected over 2000 peoples DNA but they didn't test all of them. Why they weren't testing EVERYONE leaving the island still baffles me. I believe they actually tested 200 peoples DNA against the suspects.

[JenniferSG]

This case has been a shame/sham since day one, murder scene unprotected by the investigators, no control of evidence, i.e tried to frame friend with pants found at the scene, they were found in his suitcase, now the phone incident friend gave phone to Police day after the murders were committed , now RTP claim it was located at one of the arrested men home. however no such Dept. as Internal Affairs within the RTP, too much corruption easier to pin the crime on someone else rather than do real police work and find the real perf. . it would be easier to believe the RTF only if an independent DNA sample was presented and the findings publicized.

Why are the UK authorities not screaming to the rooftops "Our citizen gave police Hannah's phone - so the phone found with the suspects is clearly planted. We want an honest inquiry."

[rick182]

Sadly this will fade from view in Thailand very soon as it looks like Elvis is about to leave the building - if he has not done so already. As for tourism, that will drop off a cliff if they ban alcohol sales for 999 days as is rumored.

its hearbreaking, you only have to visit her facebook page to know you would be lucky to have her in your life

Edited October 4, 2014 by rick182

[BradWilkins]

There must have been a lot of finger pointing going on

[Adeeos]

Sadly this will fade from view in Thailand very soon as it looks like Elvis is about to leave the building - if he has not done so already. As for tourism, that will drop off a cliff if they ban alcohol sales for 999 days as is rumored.

Banning alcohol will NEVER happen, as those that have paid to help make this go away,, will NEVER allow it,,,,, WAY too much $$ involved,,,,,

[CNXTim]

For all the BiB's and journalists involved, this will be remembered a day of very bad Karma.

[zaZa9]

I have not closely followed the details of this case. It does make reasonable sense to me that a couple of poorly paid immigrant workers -- who maybe have gone without sex for weeks or months or more -- could be on the beach at 4 AM drunk and/or doing drugs and could be sent into a frenzy when they realize two farangs are having sex on the beach close to them with the resultant outcome. It does not make much sense to me that a wealthy Thai scion of the local bigwigs who can get laid any time he wants would have a similar reaction if he stumbles upon the same couple under the same circumstances.

... unless there was some scenario that the girl had been propositioned earlier by a wealthy Thai and refused with the resultant outcome but I don't think applies.

Agree -

The headmans son is young and presentable and a bar owner, amongst many other business interests, and has been around foreigners all his life ... I can therefore assume he is often approached by tourist girls fixing on 'hooking up ' ...and spending her life on Paradise Island forever .

And some claim that , yes , he was so used to that , he was so used to getting what he wanted that when he was rejected that night, that he stalked and killed this couple... an entitled spoiled boy running amok again.

Well if he was indeed that type , then Im yet to read any claims by any other woman of any nationality , that they have had a near miss or faced an attack from him. There has been plenty of time for some girl to seek her 5 minutes of fame on the media so far ...

And any claim that he alone acted out this crime , still has to explain the TWO semen samples found within the female victim...

Ok , ok , I hear it already ..." the boy brought an accomplice with him!"

So who is this accomplice?

Who is this second murderer ?

"Oh the Police made up the story that there were two semen samples!"

BS... the cops were as surprised as we were when forensics announced this.

They had the naked male corpse , they had the naked female corpse . And they had a semen sample they thought was the dead males. They initially thought they just needed to find a single killer. The Thai plod arent simply inventive enough to pre-muddy the waters when the case looked so simple at first.

And because they did think the semen was from the male victim , they sent TWO samples of the semen to TWO different locations - Bangkok , and SINGAPORE.

Now any conspiracy theorist can tell me that the Police somehow 'switched' the samples in Bangkok and I may well listen , but I believe nigh on impossible anyway , but there is no way Im going to believe that they switched the samples sent to Singapore...

If the Thai Police have not SENT new DNA from the suspects to Singapore to see if there is a match , then you can bet that British forensic investigators are doing so ( themselves ) now.

And how do you switch samples anyway ?

The semen went first. Its on the record in TWO countries BEFORE the accused were apprehended .

And the accused can produce more any time !

I also feel compelled to refute all these experts on Thai 'face' ...even more so on 'South Thai Face' as some purport to know .

Firstly , ANY Thai can lose face , its not the domain of the privileged - as a German bar owner on Samui recently found out when he abused some Thai unemployed kids for sitting on his Harley.

Secondly , Thais usually react IMMEDIATELY to a loss of face as an emotional reaction to what they perceive as a "slight" AND they do it in front of their peers , because its their peers who register their loss of face in the first place. And they perceive their peers as being willing participants in its return. You cant lose face if your peer group doesnt perceive you have to have lost it!

Thus not every disagreement results in a loss of face ... Thais have disagreements every day and dont kill each other. Every one of us knows that there is way less blood shed on Soi Cowboy or Bangla road than would happen on a similiar street in our own countries.

People carp on here on TV about Thais always wanting to have an army behind them when they fight ....so where is this army , or even 'group' when it comes to these victims on Koh Tao?

If there was any REAL trouble at the bar , we would have read about it from independent farang witnesses.

We havent.

Its also my observations that the 'influential' Thai spoiled brat carries a gun. Since hes influential , the Thai Police dont stop him from doing so. He has a confrontation , he pulls the gun or knife , he tells the opponent to back down , they do - face restored.

But lets say this boy doesnt do that , lets say he has a confrontation with the Brits , and despite all his influence ( and face ) he lets it go ... Beyond any good sense , the Brits 'win' ( somehow ) and head off to the beach for a bonk ... ( is that what you'd do if you had been threatened by Thais on a little island ?)

Our TV experts now conclude that our rich boy goes looking for them. He doesnt bring a posse ( as these TV experts say Thais ALWAYS do ) or a knife or even a gun? He doesnt consider that all the money his family makes from tourism ( 'Money Number One ' after all ) may be lost from what he does next?

Instead hes supposed to have found a hoe somewhere , found the couple who slighted him , bashed them to death , inseminated the girl twice , then high tailed it to Bangkok?

Sorry I dont buy it.

I'd very much like the recipient of so much speculation to hand over a swab - jesus how hard could it be for any investigator to 'acquire' one tomorrow ... to really prove his innocence or guilt TO US.

But right now , investigators only need a sample of the semen and a DNA sample from the accused prove all the speculation wrong.

Or right.

Is it too much to ask that these samples ; one of each of the semen, one of each from the accused , one or many from the purported murder weapon , are handed over to Scotland Yard ???

Is it really that hard to do this and stop all this speculation and out and out racism emanating from non-Thais gobs?

[scubascuba3]

I don't know if anything can be done any longer but I urge any one of you here to do your bit and sign the petition.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Tried to sign it and it didn't work. I wonder how many others it didn't work for

[Lucrative]

Please, can a real journalist look into a few basic questions and publish in a major newspaper?

1. Is it true that the victim's phone was handed over to police by her friend the day after the murder? Is this is same phone the police claim was found behind the room belonging to the suspects?

2. Since the suspects worked at the very same bar that the victims were at that night, and since they didn't flee, how is it possible that the initial blanket DNA tests did not find a match?!?

3. Is it true that relatives of prominent families on the island were exempted from giving DNA? If so, why? What law requires poor people to give DNA, but excuses rich people.

I know there are many, many more unanswered questions, but these stand out for me.

I would happily donate to a legal fund for defense for these guys. Perhaps an NGO can set that up here?

If someone seriously starts a lawyers defence fund,I would be happy to kick in BUT first won't the confessions need to be withdrawn??

[Trouble]

The are always vile disgusting shows that do nothing for the pursuit of justice.

Unfortunately, the police thought yesterday's show was a display of wonderful abilities and don't even realize how it makes everyone else want to vomit.

It would be one thing to bring the culprits (If they are the culprits) to the scene and do a reenactment during questioning to learn more facts, but allowing the public and press to be all over the place is only for show and it is disgusting. You can bet these poor guys have not even been given the opportunity for legal advise. They were probably tied up and threatened or possibly beaten until they confessed. Wonder how well these Burmese laborers read the confessions probably written in Thai.

Whether these are the guys or not the whole thing has been a circus from the get go. I just hope the police have not rounded up scapegoats. They want it over and the number of times the article mentioned tourism, etc. just shows what these people are worried about, forgetting the fact that two people were brutally murdered. There are just too many unanswered questions.

[Torrens54]

If the two men charged were tortured with Boiling Water, they seem to have made a remarkable recovery.

Sure, if indeed boiling water was applied, it wouldn't have been on any visible parts but SURELY if it was poured over other parts of their anatomy, the suspects wouldn't have been quite as agile as the appeared during the visit to the crime scene.

[JacChang]

If they do not respect life of foreigners as it is, and take this justice as a joke. Thailand shall not have an increase in tourism.

[Adeeos]

If the two men charged were tortured with Boiling Water, they seem to have made a remarkable recovery.

Sure, if indeed boiling water was applied, it wouldn't have been on any visible parts but SURELY if it was poured over other parts of their anatomy, the suspects wouldn't have been quite as agile as the appeared during the visit to the crime scene.

Reports claimed that, FRIENDS of theirs were tortured with boiling water,,, Gotta give the BIB credit for thinking THAT far ahead,,,, but of course,,, they ALL assume they're smarter than ANYONE else,,,,

[Mackie]

I think the fate of those Burmese guys depend on public reaction. If there is a widespread outrage with the Thai police handling of this matter both in Thailand and abroad - this simply won't fly. They will be forced to back down. The western media could play a crucial role. But they are unusually quiet. Burmese guys might be guilty but the whole conduct of Thai police in this matter is simply outrageous. It's almost like competition between Thai police officers which one of them is going to be more incompetent and embarrass the whole police force more. They're doing marvelous job.

[NeverSure]

Proverbs 24:20 For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.

Evil men will be rewarded, one way or the other. God will reward wicked men with grief, pain, and death. He will cut their lives off and send their souls down to eternal torment.

This verse is the second half of a proverb. Here is the first half: “Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked” (Pr 24:19). You should not worry or be jealous watching evil men prosper; God will not allow them to have a good ending.

When Solomon wrote here that an evil man will have no reward, he meant a good reward; he meant blessing and favor from heaven. God will not reward evil men with such good things – He will reward them with punishment to painfully destroy them, as stated in the last clause. God will put out their candle: He will end their wicked lives.

inocent

You're ACTUALLY quoting scripture?.... REALLY?,,,, Where was your "God",,, while these innocent people were getting VIOLENTLY MURDERED/RAPED?!?!?!,,,,, And those that did this,,, are STILL walking free!,,,,,, give me/US a FREAKING BREAK!...

Stop freaking out, OK? All of those references refer to after the death of the evildoers when read in the complete context. There's no reference that says they will be stopped, or the world wouldn't be as it is.

I'm not asking you to believe it, just asking that you read it correctly.

Cheers

Edited October 4, 2014 by NeverSure

[Adeeos]

I think the fate of those Burmese guys depend on public reaction. If there is a widespread outrage with the Thai police handling of this matter both in Thailand and abroad - this simply won't fly. They will be forced to back down. The western media could play a crucial role. But they are unusually quiet. Burmese guys might be guilty but the whole conduct of Thai police in this matter is simply outrageous. It's almost like competition between Thai police officers which one of them is going to be more incompetent and embarrass the whole police force more. They're doing marvelous job.

Point is,,, now they CAN'T back down,,, they've already gotten a, "perfect" match on the DNA,,,, there's NO way they can now say there was a mistake,,, They'll run this like a train on full throttle, with no one at the wheel,,,,

[yougivemebaby]

This case has been a shame/sham since day one, murder scene unprotected by the investigators, no control of evidence, i.e tried to frame friend with pants found at the scene, they were found in his suitcase, now the phone incident friend gave phone to Police day after the murders were committed , now RTP claim it was located at one of the arrested men home. however no such Dept. as Internal Affairs within the RTP, too much corruption easier to pin the crime on someone else rather than do real police work and find the real perf. . it would be easier to believe the RTF only if an independent DNA sample was presented and the findings publicized.

Why are the UK authorities not screaming to the rooftops "Our citizen gave police Hannah's phone - so the phone found with the suspects is clearly planted. We want an honest inquiry."

Because some arsholes are trolling. It's not real. They didn't have her phone. The UK already did their own testing

[dcduffy]

A thought, perhaps one of the local posters could set up a Koh Tao Burmese defense fund for these obviously poor Burmese to allow them the opportunity to defend themselves and to force the Thai police to look for the real murderers if the Burmese are not guilty. I imagine amongst the readers we have some barristers who actually believe in justice no matter whom the accused may be..

thanks

Edited October 4, 2014 by dcduffy

[ffaarraanngg]

If the two men charged were tortured with Boiling Water, they seem to have made a remarkable recovery.

Sure, if indeed boiling water was applied, it wouldn't have been on any visible parts but SURELY if it was poured over other parts of their anatomy, the suspects wouldn't have been quite as agile as the appeared during the visit to the crime scene.

It was the friends of the accused that were tortured, apparently there are pictures and recordings of it that have been handed to Non Thai authorities.

[choff56]

Would it be possible to get a complete explanation of why the two Burmese cannot be the culprits based on facts. Even my Thai friends believe that they are scapegoats. But this is mainly based on the fact that Thai police is hated by foreigners and thai alike because of corruption and abuse and on the fact that since the murder authorities so much wanted the Burmese migrants to be the murderers.

However personally I find difficult to believe that the Thai police is at the level for a fabrication of this dimension . So many people have been involved including not only policemen but forensic personal and external laboratories. How can they pay all of them. The risk would be too high and the coordination too sophisticated.

Did I just see the Sun sneak by you.

[loonodingle]

I don't know if anything can be done any longer but I urge any one of you here to do your bit and sign the petition.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Tried to sign it and it didn't work. I wonder how many others it didn't work for

Hi try to go direct to www.change.org you will find the petition on there.

if you need to search enter this text

Independently Investigate the horrific murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Sending it to

This petition will be delivered to:

UK Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent

The Government of the United Kingdom

This is the context of the petition

Knowing full well that the Thai authorities are notoriously corrupt and have in the past intentionally withheld and/or planted evidence in order to protect murderers that are well connected,and with accusations of police offering bribes to false witnesses, we are not able to trust that the two Myanmar nationals being detained have not had their confessions forced out of them and as such cannot trust that they are responsible for the horrific rape and murders of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths in the hopes that the families of these victims may know justice has been served and that the deaths of two more possible innocents might be avoided.