Police address criticisms over Koh Tao arrest of Myanmar suspects

[bigjules007]

Do you people realize you don't even know the facts you are questioning? You have not seen the police report and you have no seen the autopsy report and the case has not even been presented in court. You have bits of information from the press which some are accurate and some are not (as always in Thailand) and you have official statements from the police and again some perfectly accurate and some not as things get passed up to the head guy who makes the press statements. Then once translated (impossible to do perfectly accurately) you have info.

Then you have the other folks who get their info from blogs and believe they must be right because 90+ percent of the other blog readers believe in the blog. And those folks who believe they can solve crimes from a low resolution image. The Dr. Quincy folks can actually tell us how the murders were committed and with what weapon as well as the order of the wounds and if they occurred while the victims were alive despite them not know simple things like if blood had been wiped or rubbed away from any of the wounds.

Pathetic and desperate.

Why are you still defending one of the most corrupt police forces in the world? ??

Why do you think you know better then the Thais about there own police force?

I mean really, what interests do you have with the RTP?

What gives you the authority to spout such rubbish, disregarding the views of thd Thai public.

By being such a bigoted big head you are actually Thai bashing. Do you think all these people can be wrong.

Go away and do some reading, not just on this case but some others and see if you can see any similarities in cases where the RTP have been caught out before

[hellyes2oo2]

News flash, UncleE has just been handed his next undercover job. Many people are thinking it could be the easiest that he has ever had. He has to inflitrate the muppets. He has said the only other job he could get that could be easier than this would be if he had to go undercover as a ROYAL THAI POLICE OFFICER.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Do you people realize you don't even know the facts you are questioning? You have not seen the police report and you have no seen the autopsy report and the case has not even been presented in court. You have bits of information from the press which some are accurate and some are not (as always in Thailand) and you have official statements from the police and again some perfectly accurate and some not as things get passed up to the head guy who makes the press statements. Then once translated (impossible to do perfectly accurately) you have info.

Then you have the other folks who get their info from blogs and believe they must be right because 90+ percent of the other blog readers believe in the blog. And those folks who believe they can solve crimes from a low resolution image. The Dr. Quincy folks can actually tell us how the murders were committed and with what weapon as well as the order of the wounds and if they occurred while the victims were alive despite them not know simple things like if blood had been wiped or rubbed away from any of the wounds.

Pathetic and desperate.

Why are you still defending one of the most corrupt police forces in the world? ??

Why do you think you know better then the Thais about there own police force?

I mean really, what interests do you have with the RTP?

What gives you the authority to spout such rubbish, disregarding the views of thd Thai public.

By being such a bigoted big head you are actually Thai bashing. Do you think all these people can be wrong.

Go away and do some reading, not just on this case but some others and see if you can see any similarities in cases where the RTP have been caught out before

Why cannot you not even see the most basic things in a real way .... you start off saying I am defending police and nowhere in the post have I done this and the closest I come is saying the say things sometimes that are wrong.

Then you use your desperate lies (this is what they are) to try to spread the theory I am bigoted. Even a first year psychology student would have you looking in the mirror.

This is the problem with conspiracy folks - they see what they want to see despite the obvious.

Edited October 6, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Maejo Man]

The main inconsistency was in the rather bizarre re enactment where they had one suspect showing how he attacked David Miller with a plastic dust pan, in lieu of a hoe. It was established long ago that David was killed with a chunk of timber, which was found at the crime scene with his DNA on it. They talk of people being critical......I'm speechless and angry.

[harrry]

There can't be an independent investigation, DNA review, or whatever as the crime occurred under Thai jurisdiction. The only way another crime agency can legally get involved is if officially invited to by the Thai authorities.

Not completely true. Murder of a British Citizen anywhere in the world is a crime against UK law. In similar cases a Coronor in the UK has decided to hold an inquest into the circumstances of the death and use all the resources at hands to get at the facts. If they believe that the persons committing this crime are not the ones that did it they are fully at liberty to declare the death was at the hands of an individual, not the ones said to be involved and pass it to the Police for further investigation within its powers. They have done this in the case of a few murders in the Middle East.

[ScotBkk]

Most Thai people KNOW what to do if a family member is accused of a serious crime!

Yes, stay put and offer out a reward if they can guess their DNA structure ....

[SICHONSTEVE]

Do you people realize you don't even know the facts you are questioning? You have not seen the police report and you have no seen the autopsy report and the case has not even been presented in court. You have bits of information from the press which some are accurate and some are not (as always in Thailand) and you have official statements from the police and again some perfectly accurate and some not as things get passed up to the head guy who makes the press statements. Then once translated (impossible to do perfectly accurately) you have info.

Then you have the other folks who get their info from blogs and believe they must be right because 90+ percent of the other blog readers believe in the blog. And those folks who believe they can solve crimes from a low resolution image. The Dr. Quincy folks can actually tell us how the murders were committed and with what weapon as well as the order of the wounds and if they occurred while the victims were alive despite them not know simple things like if blood had been wiped or rubbed away from any of the wounds.

Pathetic and desperate.

Why are you still defending one of the most corrupt police forces in the world? ??

Why do you think you know better then the Thais about there own police force?

I mean really, what interests do you have with the RTP?

What gives you the authority to spout such rubbish, disregarding the views of thd Thai public.

By being such a bigoted big head you are actually Thai bashing. Do you think all these people can be wrong.

Go away and do some reading, not just on this case but some others and see if you can see any similarities in cases where the RTP have been caught out before

I know something about young illegal immigrant Burmese 'boys'. They wouldn't think twice about slashing the throat of you're mother-in-law for a 1,000 baht note!!!

The Thai's know this as well!!

Edited October 6, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[bigjules007]

If the DNA evidence is infallibly conclusive, why did they need to beat confessions out of the Burmese boys?

They didn't look particularly beat up to me - only sheepish and clearly regretting raping and killing those two unfortunate Brits.

I don't understand why people are so intent on protecting them when all of the investigative facts point to them being the guilty party.

Beacause ThaiVisa members are totally pizzed off that the killers were not Thai.

Not pissed off that they weren't Thai, we are pissed off because the Burmese boys are not the real murderers, just want justice for the families of the victims. Too much to ask in 2014 is it?

[umbanda]

Former report said that these guys were working in the bar where the victims meet before going to the beach....and that the bar belongs to the guy offering 1 million for the police "if its prove that his family was not involved"..

If that is true..I insist on my conspiracy script....

By the way...I do not remember any case of murdering a male to rape the female.....and I still believing that the main reason of the attack was to injure or kill........Some "inferior" people do anything to please the "big boss"...or the "little boss"....

Those guys may be the killers.... but somebody else may be involved in other way.

Edited October 6, 2014 by umbanda

[lvr181]

The Police feeling a little "prickly"?

[allan michaud]

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lets hope and pray that the british government get seriously involved.

Sadly there seems to be zero chance of that happening considering the Ambo's sickening statement the other day. Exemplary, is not a word that he should have uttered in reference to the police investigation. I feel so sorry for the families, they will/have been badly let down by the Embassy.

[rkeyologynut]

Like most of the people who've posted on here, I too, think a sensible course of action would be to have independent DNA testing done as part of a larger independent investigation into what happened. Do I think that's going to happen? Probably not. The Royal Thai Police are the national police force of a sovereign nation with the authority to conduct criminal investigations within their jurisdiction as they see fit. They are also rather, let's vaguely say, a financially mobile minded institution. To a certain, limited degree, I can accept that as being a part of life in a third world country, as unbecoming as it is to an aspiring one such as Thailand (though just not to the degree they might have taken this situation to). They have no obligation to answer to you, nor me, if they so choose not to. They don't even have to answer to any foreign government if that's the direction they want to take.

Perhaps the Thai government, however, would respond to a foreign government's pressure, say England's considering the victims were British, of issuing a strong and extended public warning to all of its citizens that Thailand is a destination that is highly unsafe to travel to until independent DNA testing is allowed to be conducted by an impartial third party. Considering that the two governments are in good relations, I would have thought the English government would have at least requested to have a team of its own be a part of the investigations, at the very least as a courtesy between two friendly nations. I would have thought the Myanmar government would want to push for this, as well, in order to protect their own citizens if they are indeed innocent (but, though i hate being cynical, they might not even care considering the human rights violations that go on there). I don't think I have read nor heard that either government has asked to do so, or have been refused to do so, so I am just assuming that they haven't. I for one would think the Thai government would be more apt to step in and make the police do things more openly and properly if they were pressured through official international channels.

The point I am trying to make is this; instead of posting cynical and facetious comments on a public forum, why are all the upset and appalled people on here not writing letters or organizing petitions to their own governments and ambassadors in Thailand to give a voice and credence to their frustrations, particularly the English to their MP's? I am surprised more MP's or even the PM hasnot stepped up bat for the families of the victims. Maybe you can contact the local member of parliament from Deal, England, Charlie Elphicke, to help with the cause. I just read an article on ThaiVisa that he is "doing all I can to help free Mr. Cole" from a Moroccan prison for being gay (Mr. Cole is the 70 year old British man being imprisoned there, although in Morocco being gay is a criminal offense, however).

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766018-morocco-sentences-70-year-old-british-tourist-in-jail-for-being-gay/?utm_source=newsletter-20141006-1426&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

http://www.eturbonews.com/51138/morocco-sentences-gay-tourist-four-months-prison

My heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to the family, friends, and community of the victims. What happened to the victims was truly tragic and as with all murders, a blow to us as a race, to the community of Koh Tao, Koh Samui, and Thailand, and to the fight for transparency in the face of corruption in Thailand. I truly hope the family and friends of the victims find closure and peace mind one way or the other.

With that being said, one part of me, at the risk of sounding insensitive or crass, keeps reminding myself that murders happen all the time (from Homicide Watch Chicago, a Chicago Sun-Times Publication, "The Cook County medical examiner's office, which counts murders differently, reported 180 homicides so far in 2014 compared to 187 in the first six months of 2013" (as of July 2nd, 2014)). That's about one murder a day in a first world, contemporary metropolis with an extensive police force. The murders in Koh Tao just happen to be getting more attention than the rest. (I know it's random, but I sourced and quoted a fact pertaining to Chicago, Illinois, because I, myself, am from Chicago.)

http://homicides.suntimes.com/

http://homicides.suntimes.com/2014/07/02/2014-chicago-homicides-and-violence-by-the-numbers-analysis/

Since it has been garnering so much attention, I hope that there will be a positive outcome one way or another.

1) The Royal Thai Police apprehended the correct individuals responsible. Even though their management of the investigation seemed bumbling, maybe they can learn from it and improve their efficiency in handling murder investigations.

2) It is found that this has all been a cover up and the Thai government realizes that the officials responsible need to be punished (for real) to the full extent of the law and that no matter where it may lead, and that the continuing search must be conducted with true transparency.

3) Though tragic as it may be, these events can become a true catalyst for real debate and real action against corruption at all levels in this country I love and have come to call home, naive/cliche as that may sound. (Both of my parents are Thai who migrated to the U.S. I was born, raised, and lived in Chicago, Illinois, for twenty-six of my thirty-six years of life. I lived in Peru for two years and in Thailand for eight so far.)

Well, this has just been my two cents; though looking back it appears to have stretched to about a dollar seventy-five or so.

If you got all the way here, thanks for taking the time to read it all.

If this made no sense at all, then I'm sorry to have wasted five minutes of your life.

Tana

[catterwell]

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I don't know why people keep going on about these phones.

More curiously is why davids DNA is confirmed not on the hoe that is said to be the murder weapon.

The police said right from the start, the hoe was not the weapon used on David.

Now, they insist it was.

Second curiosity is , there is not a scrap of DNA or evidence putting David and Hannah physically together in any way shape or form.

As they would have everyone believe in the re-enactment.

Forget about the phones.

DNA on the hoe is the question.

Greenchair - you are correct in the statement "The police said right from the start, the hoe was not the weapon used on David". I have seen the internal RTP Line chat where the police amongst themselves are saying it wasn't a Hoe that caused the fatal injuries - the police themselves in these chats are saying they dont believe that the Burmese committed the attacks..and that the fingerprint evidence on the hoes is not being referred to. The Police forensic photo that is in the chat shows about coloured red 4 - 5 circles quite clearly highlighting fingerprints.on the handle of the hoe. The police internally are chatting why are not the fingerprints not being used as well. The chat session I saw also shows two very close up photos of Davids wounds to the back of and slightly above his right ear (a blue rubber gloved finger is pointing to the biggest wound) ..these show several deep wounds into the skull 2-3cm in length and about 0.3cm wide consistent with a penetrating wound from large bladed 'hunting" knife.. I am no forensics specialist - but they look like they were delivered by a rather strong or violent series of thrusts. These quite shocking wounds would be impossible from the hoe. I wont be providing proof as the phone was not mine - and Thais know to keep their mouths closed in such high profile cases. I hope these photos come out as evidence in the trial (but what judge would dare throw out this case based on conflicting evidence let alone allowing discussion on or a description of the actual weapon that could have inflicted these horrific woulds that doesn't match the now official story.)..There must be massive pressure on the investigating forensic officers from above to secure the conviction - that's the way it works here.

Bkk Cruiser: Good information. Well noted. Thank you.

I'm plugged into high level police gossip about police reform. They believe it won't happen. I'd be interested to hear what you think of pick up on this point.

[jomcondo]

Johnboy is just an argumentative type.......you know the sort......if you say the sky is blue, he will say its orange.

Just ignore him.

[bigjules007]

They got the guys and now they will have their day in court. Videos, Witnesses, Confession, physical evidence and DNA. The suspects have lawyers who will be able to take their DNA again and compare it to that originally taken from the crime scene and analyzed in Thailand and Singapore.

It really is pathetic that faux internet forensic experts are going on with tiny bits of information, early police theories and imperfect reporting to come up with the most idiotic theories and then passing these off as plausible by pretending other facts don't exist.

The UK will not ask to become part of the investigation no matter how many people sign an internet petition. Like the rest of this nonsense, this is just not the way things work.

Most of you are no interested in justice, you just don't like who it turned out to be because you want to blame a Thai (specifically a rich one simply because he is rich) while others are angry and distrust the police. Get over it, the case is now going to be in the courts hands and it is so highly unlikely all the evidence including DNA (which can be verified again) are all a set-up.

While the police without doubt made mistakes it is just idiotic the way some our pretending. The want transparency but they can;t handle even receiving a little info. OMFG, so the police didn't know who did this originally and focused their attention on numerous suspects until landing on these two whose DNA matched ... this is the way many investigations go around the world. You take reports as gold when it suites your need for a conspiracy but even the most uninformed of those of us in Thailand know the press is crap and things are lost in translation.

The DNA matches and we all know as well as the police it can be verified again and again as long as the two suspects bodies are around. So go off on idiotic phone and unmissing video BS to make yourself feel better but it just comes off as desperate and illogical and dishonest.

So what about this post then? You had already already condemned the Burmese boys based on the fact that the police had arrested them. What evidence do you have that they murdered them?? A shady confession? (Police say so) dodgy re enactment?

And being a little defensive now that ive pointed out your bashing Thais arent you??

[Dogmatix]

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lets hope and pray that the british government get seriously involved.

Sadly there seems to be zero chance of that happening considering the Ambo's sickening statement the other day. Exemplary, is not a word that he should have uttered in reference to the police investigation. I feel so sorry for the families, they will/have been badly let down by the Embassy.

No, the man seems to be a complete clown. He could easily have used diplomatic language to convey the appropriate response, e.g. "We are pleased that Thai police appear to have concluded the case." Perhaps he is hopeful of a lucrative job in Thailand, just like his predecessor but one who broke his contract to go and work for Whisky Charoen.

[bigjules007]

Johnboy is just an argumentative type.......you know the sort......if you say the sky is blue, he will say its orange.

Just ignore him.

Good advice

[jimbeam1]

Do you people realize you don't even know the facts you are questioning? You have not seen the police report and you have no seen the autopsy report and the case has not even been presented in court. You have bits of information from the press which some are accurate and some are not

(as always in Thailand) and you have official statements from the police and again some perfectly accurate and some not as things get passed up to the head guy who makes the press statements. Then once translated (impossible to do perfectly accurately) you have info.

Then you have the other folks who get their info from blogs and believe they must be right because 90+ percent of the other blog readers believe in the blog. And those folks who believe they can solve crimes from a low resolution image. The Dr. Quincy folks can actually tell us how the murders were committed and with what weapon as well as the order of the wounds and if they occurred while the victims were alive despite them not know simple things like if blood had been wiped or rubbed away from any of the wounds.

Pathetic and desperate.

Why are you still defending one of the most corrupt police forces in the world? ??

Why do you think you know better then the Thais about there own police force?

I mean really, what interests do you have with the RTP?

What gives you the authority to spout such rubbish, disregarding the views of thd Thai public.

By being such a bigoted big head you are actually Thai bashing. Do you think all these people can be wrong.

Go away and do some reading, not just on this case but some others and see if you can see any similarities in cases where the RTP have been caught out before

I know something about young illegal immigrant Burmese 'boys'. They wouldn't think twice about slashing the throat of you're mother-in-law for a 1,000 baht note!!!

The Thai's know this as well!!

Please tell us more. Coupled with some proof if possible.

jb1

Edited October 6, 2014 by jimbeam1

[MikePhuket1970]

My Wife tells me that the chit chat on Thai Forums is that Warod the son of the head man is not only connected to the Kings son and that some Army main man is part of their family but also took a flight from Samui using his Dad's name on morning of 15 Sept as they the family have a travel card with BK Air. He was on Koh Tao for the Full moon party on the 8th and stayed on.

Thats very interesting and gives me one more reason why

here in this forum are members who constantly sabotage

the debate and investigation

Besides their brainless recurring anoying thoughts they even start to threaten members.

[ScotBkk]

Do the RTP not realise how much blood would be flying around as these brutal attacks were taking place? The perpetrators would have it all over themselves and their clothes, but the police don't seem to have found any trace of blood on anything but the hoe.

Does anyone else find this rather curious?

One of those arrested was arrested in the same shirt he was wearing in the store footage the night of the murder yet his shirt is not blood stained.

Even, though everyone on TV gives their good and honest opinions.

There's so many flaws in this so-called evidence - it’s sickening. This, would NEVER bypass any court system in our own countries. No matter what, if they don't allow this evidence to be scrutinised by proper means (UK etc.) we will all be very pi ssed off forevermore and will NEVER forget this atrocity for the rest of our lives.

Even, if it does not affect tourist figures, it will make its mark around the world as a country that cares not for our people other than what they bring into their economy. Why not do the honourable thing and give justice to Hannah & David.

May they RIP

[Dogmatix]

This afternoon I saw Sorayuth on Channel 3 interviewing a police forensic scientist who was saying there was DNA found on Hannah's nipples from two males, neither of whom were David or the two suspects. I wonder what that is all about.

There is a Youtube clip in Thai of Khunying Pornthip saying the the Koh Tao case is a "cover-up" (kati ampran). Haven't seen any reports of that elsewhere.

[bigjules007]

8

Do the RTP not realise how much blood would be flying around as these brutal attacks were taking place? The perpetrators would have it all over themselves and their clothes, but the police don't seem to have found any trace of blood on anything but the hoe.

Does anyone else find this rather curious?

One of those arrested was arrested in the same shirt he was wearing in the store footage the night of the murder yet his shirt is not blood stained.

Even, though everyone on TV gives their good and honest opinions.

There's so many flaws in this so-called evidence - it’s sickening. This, would NEVER bypass any court system in our own countries. No matter what, if they don't allow this evidence to be scrutinised by proper means (UK etc.) we will all be very pi ssed off forevermore and will NEVER forget this atrocity for the rest of our lives.

Even, if it does not affect tourist figures, it will make its mark around the world as a country that cares not for our people other than what they bring into their economy. Why not do the honourable thing and give justice to Hannah & David.

May they RIP

Edited October 6, 2014 by bigjules007

[jomcondo]

To all the negative folks in the peanut gallery, as a former undercover officer with The Royal Thai Police in conjunction with the US Embassy, I'd highly suggest you remember you are only privy to the facts exposed online. There are numerous concerns about intelligence assets etc. which you'll never know about.

And if I was a Thai National Royal Thai Police Officer, I'd have a thing out for you. So stop being so negative, the Royal Thai Police are extremely efficient and friendly and concerned about getting the right people. Anybody who's had an experience which contradicts my statement should look in the mirror and read what you write.

Continuous negative speculation is not the smart thing to do. Why don't you go out and make a legal business and make money so you don't have so much time to speculate.

Some of you are so lucky they don't track you down.

Uncle

Wow uncle is making dark threats.......take it easy guy it sounds like your blood pressure is getting high from all that Viagra you've chomped down today.

[tudorc]

the UK inquest that was opened last week,and full inquest in January, will be about the cause of death i would imagine,doubt if it would produce any evidence to the murder case.

[greenchair]

If the DNA evidence is infallibly conclusive, why did they need to beat confessions out of the Burmese boys?

They didn't look particularly beat up to me - only sheepish and clearly regretting raping and killing those two unfortunate Brits.

I don't understand why people are so intent on protecting them when all of the investigative facts point to them being the guilty party.

Some of the facts point to them. Most of the facts point to more than two.

If you could just tell me how those little 21 year olds did all that on their own.

So far the police cannot say how it was done.

The burmese cannot say how it was done.

And probably you cannot even dream up how it was done.

You have who, what ,where ,when, why.

Nobody has the answer to HOW.

Edited October 6, 2014 by greenchair

[peterbkk9]

What they say mean nothing.

Think about it:

The police know they are under criticism. They know it.

=> If the Burmese were indeed the real perpetrators, the police themselves would be asking for an independent investigation and DNA testing to confirm their findings.

After more than 10 years in this country, I found that one of the best ways to know what's inside the mind of a Thai (especially when they lie), is not so much to look at what they do / say, but what they don't do / don't say.

This is pretty accurate.

Edited October 6, 2014 by peterbkk9

[bigjules007]

This afternoon I saw Sorayuth on Channel 3 interviewing a police forensic scientist who was saying there was DNA found on Hannah's nipples from two males, neither of whom were David or the two suspects. I wonder what that is all about.

There is a Youtube clip in Thai of Khunying Pornthip saying the the Koh Tao case is a "cover-up" (kati ampran). Haven't seen any reports of that elsewhere.

Evidence like this is coming to light every day but the apologists refuse to believe it, they keep passing it off as "conspiracy".

[Dogmatix]

They got the guys and now they will have their day in court. Videos, Witnesses, Confession, physical evidence and DNA. The suspects have lawyers who will be able to take their DNA again and compare it to that originally taken from the crime scene and analyzed in Thailand and Singapore.

It really is pathetic that faux internet forensic experts are going on with tiny bits of information, early police theories and imperfect reporting to come up with the most idiotic theories and then passing these off as plausible by pretending other facts don't exist.

The UK will not ask to become part of the investigation no matter how many people sign an internet petition. Like the rest of this nonsense, this is just not the way things work.

Most of you are no interested in justice, you just don't like who it turned out to be because you want to blame a Thai (specifically a rich one simply because he is rich) while others are angry and distrust the police. Get over it, the case is now going to be in the courts hands and it is so highly unlikely all the evidence including DNA (which can be verified again) are all a set-up.

While the police without doubt made mistakes it is just idiotic the way some our pretending. The want transparency but they can;t handle even receiving a little info. OMFG, so the police didn't know who did this originally and focused their attention on numerous suspects until landing on these two whose DNA matched ... this is the way many investigations go around the world. You take reports as gold when it suites your need for a conspiracy but even the most uninformed of those of us in Thailand know the press is crap and things are lost in translation.

The DNA matches and we all know as well as the police it can be verified again and again as long as the two suspects bodies are around. So go off on idiotic phone and unmissing video BS to make yourself feel better but it just comes off as desperate and illogical and dishonest.

Can you cite the reference that confirms DNA was sent to Singapore for testing?

[luckyman]

Well, we will have to see how all this works out in court.

Luckily for the suspects, some foreign human watch organisation has provided them with proper counsel.

In my humble opinion, this case is far from over....!

Edited October 6, 2014 by luckyman

[SICHONSTEVE]

If the DNA evidence is infallibly conclusive, why did they need to beat confessions out of the Burmese boys?

They didn't look particularly beat up to me - only sheepish and clearly regretting raping and killing those two unfortunate Brits.

I don't understand why people are so intent on protecting them when all of the investigative facts point to them being the guilty party.

Some of the facts point to them. Most of the facts point to more than two.

If you could just tell me how those little 21 year olds did all that on their own.

So far the police cannot say how it was done.

The burmese cannot say how it was done.

And probably you cannot even dream up how it was done.

You have who, what ,where ,when, why.

Nobody has the answer to HOW.

Purely my gut instincts.