Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation

[webfact]

Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation
By Prae Sakaowan and Tood Ruiz



BANGKOK: -- For weeks popular speculation ran deep police that would finger Burmese migrant workers for the murder of two foreign tourists on Koh Tao, and when it came true on Friday, you could almost hear the groans.

An investigation which came out of the gate “focusing on migrant laborers” before moving on to a British friend of the deceased and “especially Rohingya” and even influential “mafia figures” for a time, eventually came full circle to three migrant laborers implicated by no more than circumstantial evidence, an alleged DNA hit and a now-recanted confession.

Along the way the investigation accumulated numerous accounts of witness torture, bribery, bizarre claims and threats.

However, after so many missteps, questionable statements and by all appearances a totally shambolic investigation, there was one big problem for the police who’ve been under intense pressure to show results: No one bought it.

Not the international audience; not the domestic audience.

In fact so many voices of skepticism or downright disbelief have erupted since Friday that police Tuesday resorted to threatening prosecution of anyone who challenged their conclusions, saying they would charge dissenters with “insulting officials.”

Indeed National police chief Somyot Poompanmoung on Tuesday described the work of investigators as “a perfect job.”

Investigation dogged by contradictions and alleged misconduct

Trying to keep apace of developments has been like managing schizophrenia. Just yesterday, Thai police announced that Burmese embassy officials were “satisfied” with their investigation.

At the same time, reports filtered out from Burmese media that an embassy lawyer had in fact described it as a “set up” after the two men, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, revealed bruises they said came from torture and recanted their confessions.

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2014/10/08/universal-doubts-cloud-perfect-koh-tao-murder-investigation

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2014-10-08

[cowboy country]

Now the burmese have their lawyers perhaps we could start a fund to match the $1 million baht that the head man said he would pay if anyone could prove anyone from his family was involved....

Let's rustle up a million baht and offer it to the heads mans family if they give DNA samples to the UK authorities..All the sons and cousins...not put the samples in a taxi fto Singapore and end up in bkk...Let the uk compare them with the samples they have

If they have nothing to hide they'd jump at it and all this inuendo would vanish...

Then their sweet little Island can return to business as normal, even regain their already lost face and income,

What's worse for a Thai, loss of face or money? Well you have all of the above now..

Would be the perfect call for his disgusting offer of a million to prove his family did it...

The familes DNA holds the key..

[NongKhaiKid]

A ' perfect job ', I wonder what he would call one that had really been botched ?

[mrtoad]

More and more reports, questioning the validity of the investigation. "Perfect" it certainly isn't.

[toonsai]

The corrupted and incompetent RTB has been desperately trying to convince the World that their investigation and findings are accurate and legitimate. Only blah blah that does not convince anybody. It would be however very simple to clear the numerous clouds and unanswered questions: just allow independent DNA tests of the 2 Burmese scapegoats and the AC mafia suspects. If their investigation and conclusions are legitimate, they should not be worried at all; it will only give them more credits. Refuse to do so and suspicions will only continue to grow.

Again this is very simple...

[Dogmatix]

The police want the trial to start as quickly as possible on the basis of the confessions extracted in dubious circumstances. They now claim that the accused confessed in front of their 'lawyers' whose signatures must have been added retroactively.

Maybe another injection of 'vitamins' and another police massage in the cells to build their strength and reinforce their confessions followed by a guilty plea. Then the police's botched up and contradictory evidence will never be scrutinised by defence lawyers. The pair will be sentenced to death despite any deal offered to them because the court will argue the police evidence, which never had to be subjected to cross examination, was sound and the confessions were not needed. Then their sentences will eventually be commuted to life to avoid causing trouble with Burma which provides 5-10% of Thailand's labour force and is a place where the Thai government and Thai corporations are eager to invest.

Their real lawyers now need to retract their confessions as soon as possible. If they plead not guilty and lose the case, the downside is realistically the same as if they plead guilty but the upside is that the police case might collapse and they get deported as illegal immigrants.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Dogmatix

[chainarong]

This is just one of many cases over the decades where the Police have flipped and flopped and rocked from one disaster to another,tainting and destroying the crime scene as they go , if they haven't a Police media unit they should get one , now if they go back to all the B/S spoken about this case and filtered the facts, they would look very ordinary outfit indeed, for instance, the spokesperson said , quote, The DNA indicates that it wasn't an Asian , what the F!!k are you doing releasing these important facts and then bouncing a backward flip and arresting two Burmese workers and shock horror gasp the Burmese officials are satisfied with the grand result, well I'll be F!!!ked.

Edited October 8, 2014 by chainarong

[ToddinChonburi]

This is really sad, I find it hard to believe that these 2 little runts are guilty.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

= BiB

[Just1Voice]

they're trying to tell everyone that these two Myanmar Midgets first overpowered a young, apparently fit European twice their size, killed him, then raped the girl and killed her, oh, after sharing a condom? Plus, they say they used the handle of the hoe on David, but the pictures of David clearly show that a KNIFE, or some type of SHARP BLADED weapon, was used by his attackers. They can not read, write or speak Thai, but they "confessed" to police after an "intensive interrogation" at a supposed "safe house". And by the video of their "reenactment" of the crime, they had to be "directed" by the Thai police as to what they did.

sorry, way too many "inconsistencies" for me.

[toonsai]

This tragedy is probably yet another example of below illustration.

[LivinLOS]

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

Koh Tao Murders: Accused recant confessions, tell embassy lawyer they were tortured Edited October 8, 2014 by LivinLOS

[transam]

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

Koh Tao Murders: Accused recant confessions, tell embassy lawyer they were tortured

http://hsrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=A2oKs9m09DRUbE8Ac5g9pax_;_ylu=X3oDMTQzZzBzNW40BGJwb3MDMQRjY29kZQNwX2VuX2diX3BvMV9vcjEEY3BvcwM1BGN0AzEEZwM3MjlmNzc5YS02N2FkLTNhZmYtYWYyNi00NGIzMDAyMzMxZjIEaW50bAN1awRwa2d0AzQEcG9zAzEEc2VjA3RkLXN0cm0Ec2xrA3RpdGxlBHRlc3QDOTAz/RV=1/RE=1413966260/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RO=2/RU=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5taXJyb3IuY28udWsvbmV3cy91ay1uZXdzL3RoYWlsYW5kLWJlYWNoLW11cmRlcnMtYnVybWVzZS1zdXNwZWN0LTQzOTgxNDk-/RS=%5EADAaTXC7W1qI1pSq2UsLZlJ1Nh.PM0-

[tullynagardy]

One of the benefits of the junta (and believe me I`m more accustomed to pointing out the negatives) is that Prayuth can basically act as he wishes in terms of reshuffling police hierarchy and demanding a fair trial. Heads should have rolled and a big show put on to show the world Thai police can actually do a good job.

Instead he came out and said the girl basically deserved it as she was wearing a bikini, (she wasn`t actually but beside the point) whilst others have suggested electronic tagging and charging tourists to visit. Finally we shamefully have 2 innocent Burmese, the most vulnerable group, framed for it when everyone know who did it. The whole thing has been a farce.

In reality the junta is more concerned with whether the RTP hierarchy are loyal to them or Thaksin, and have little concern about their ability to do the job or corruption.

Edited October 8, 2014 by tullynagardy

[jaidam]

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

Koh Tao Murders: Accused recant confessions, tell embassy lawyer they were tortured

http://hsrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=A2oKs9m09DRUbE8Ac5g9pax_;_ylu=X3oDMTQzZzBzNW40BGJwb3MDMQRjY29kZQNwX2VuX2diX3BvMV9vcjEEY3BvcwM1BGN0AzEEZwM3MjlmNzc5YS02N2FkLTNhZmYtYWYyNi00NGIzMDAyMzMxZjIEaW50bAN1awRwa2d0AzQEcG9zAzEEc2VjA3RkLXN0cm0Ec2xrA3RpdGxlBHRlc3QDOTAz/RV=1/RE=1413966260/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RO=2/RU=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5taXJyb3IuY28udWsvbmV3cy91ay1uZXdzL3RoYWlsYW5kLWJlYWNoLW11cmRlcnMtYnVybWVzZS1zdXNwZWN0LTQzOTgxNDk-/RS=%5EADAaTXC7W1qI1pSq2UsLZlJ1Nh.PM0-

That article claims the 2 suspects had stolen the motorbike from the victim and kept it. Unbelievably stupid murderers to keep the clearly marked rental bike of the 2 tourists you just killed. Why did the police not make a song and dance about this, more damning than a mobile phone, if it is indeed true at all.

[love1012]

Oh dear poor JTJ - now he will HAVE to apologise!!! What a clown!!

[BKK Blues Brother]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

[JLCrab]

Topic Headline: Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation

From the Bangkok.Coconuts.co website:

"Coconuts Media is a local city website network that harnesses social media and video to amplify coverage of urban areas in Asia." including

Bangkok, Hong Kong, Jakarta ,Kuala Lumpur, Manila, and Singapore. Doesn't say much about its coverage in the rest of the Universe.

[Misterwhisper]

I think it is only natural and right that this allegedly "perfect job" is being scrutinized and criticized by the public following all these inconsistencies and bizarre tales described in the OP. After all, no-one should be allowed to play with the lives of two people if there is even the slightest chance they may not be guilty of this horrendous crime.

I suppose that even the families and relatives of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge would not like to see a couple of scapegoats going to the gallows while the real culprits possibly still remain at large - or are perhaps even protected by some influential parties, as has been alleged more than once.

The RTP can at this point plead as much as they want how "perfect" this investigation has allegedly been, but a large proportion of the public both locally and abroad simply doesn't buy it. The RTP has nobody to blame but themselves for this situation, because in the past they have shown again and again what an incompetent, corrupt lot they are; nothing short of worthy of the Keystone Cops, actually.

That this latest case seemingly has been botched up once more only proves to the public that nothing has been learned from similarly botched-up cases in the past and that nothing has improved in terms of the RTP's investigative professionalism. THAT is why the public is suspicious. THAT is why the public demands transparency and honest answers. And THAT is why the public has the right to criticize and scrutinize.

And the RTPs stubborn refusal to permit an independent investigation and re-examination of evidence does not exactly help to remedy the current situation either, does it?

Edited October 8, 2014 by Misterwhisper

[DoctorG]

Unfortunately the Burmese are in a bind here as the BIB cannot back down from this. The loss of face would be too great.

[epicstuff]

A ' perfect job ', I wonder what he would call one that had really been botched ?

' a perfect job'

[MrJohnson]

This story will just not go away for the poor old boys in brown. Will the government tough it out or will someone come up with a 'unique' solution?

[ukrules]

Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

Edited October 8, 2014 by ukrules

[haybilly]

How come we only get articles like this from 'Coconuts BKK'--surely, if the Burmese have recanted their confessions then major news syndicates would be running the story?

And this one today--where are the big Media players?

[Dogmatix]

I think it is only natural and right that this allegedly "perfect job" is being scrutinized and criticized by the public following all these inconsistencies and bizarre tales described in the OP. After all, no-one should be allowed to play with the lives of two people if there is even the slightest chance they may not be guilty of this horrendous crime.

I suppose that even the families and relatives of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge would not like to see a couple of scapegoats going to the gallows while the real culprits possibly still remain at large - or are perhaps even protected by some influential parties, as has been alleged more than once.

The RTP can at this point plead as much as they want how "perfect" this investigation has allegedly been, but a large proportion of the public both locally and abroad simply doesn't buy it. The RTP has nobody to blame but themselves for this situation, because in the past they have shown again and again what an incompetent, corrupt lot they are; nothing short of worthy of the Keystone Cops, actually.

That this latest case seemingly has been botched up once more only proves to the public that nothing has been learned from similarly botched-up cases in the past and that nothing has improved in terms of the RTP's investigative professionalism. THAT is why the public is suspicious. THAT is why the public demands transparency and honest answers. And THAT is why the public has the right to criticize and scrutinize.

And the RTPs stubborn refusal to permit an independent investigation and re-examination of evidence does not exactly help to remedy the current situation either, does it?

The police may have nailed down DNA evidence this time, even though they were unable to get a match the first time they checked samples from the suspects. But their case still depends on the suspects' confession, since the police will be unable to satisfactorily explain in court exactly what happened with all the discrepancies in their evidence.

It is very important that the suspects withdraw their confession and plead not guilty. The downside to them is no different is they lose. No deal from the police to spare them the death sentence can be honoured by the court. But they will not be executed for fear of bad relations with Burma. If they plead not guilty, decent lawyers would have a sporting chance of getting them off with only the illegal entry and work permit offences sticking. That's a fee trip to the Ranong crossing point. Change names, get new ID cards and passports and they could come back to Thailand as legal workers. The Thai authorities don't seem to know their real names anyway as they quote different names every time, all of which are different from the names quoted by the Burmese lawyer.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Dogmatix

[strawpanda]

I don't believe these two young men are guilty for a moment. The whole thing looks like a crude cover-up that is fooling no one. But what it is doing I suspect is making a lot of people think twice before visiting Thailand (again), me included, and that can only result in a loss of tourism income. And I have to say that I am very concerned as to what might happen to two apparent scapegoats. Not good, not good at all.

[haybilly]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

[transam]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

Perhaps England is involved but laying low until crunch time eh...

[haybilly]

"there was one big problem for the police who’ve been under intense pressure to show results: No one bought it.

Not the international audience; not the domestic audience."

except these clowns: JohnThailandJohn,soumanioco,Hisseheo,SICHONSTEVE,balo,Tanlic,Beetlejuice

and don't forget UncleE--the SWAT,CIA/FBI dude.

[Robby nz]

What as come out of this report that has not been said before (that I have seen ) is that the 2 "Suspects" do not speak Thai.

I suspected this all along and it begs the question : Did they really understand what was going on when they were arrested and taken to a safe house to be interrogated for however long it was ?

It is said that a Rohinga was used as a translator but I cant believe that one translator was with both of them, probably separated, throughout the whole interrogation.

I didn't see the reenactment but I read from those who did that the pair had to be coached as to where to point and what to do, no translator by the look of it, did they really know what was happening ?

Independent DNA tests are the only way to go and if the police really believe they have the right people why would they refuse ? For if those tests were positive then it would prove beyond doubt they have the right people and vindicate them.