Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation

[Lozza]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

Who now has a short haircut. You don't see many Thai's with army regulation short back and sides haircuts especially at Uni.

[spidermike007]

Notice to the top brass: A perfect investigation with perfect results results in the guilty parties being brought to justice. It means the guilty parties cannot use their influence to alter the outcome of this. I know that is a very, very difficult concept for you guys to comprehend. I realize you work within a system that allows influential guys off the hook. But, this whole thing is beyond compromised. Totally imperfect is probably the correct description.

As I stated in previous posts:

Some of my recent posts on this travesty, which seem as relevant as ever:

What is the real moral to this story? Well, one of them is that we are not going to see any meaningful change, to the fabric of Thai society. Many of us were incredibly hopeful that we would see some positive changes. And I think it is quite possible that Prayuth, and his top guys have their hearts in the right places, and want to see this change take place. Many expats, and many Thais really want to see progress, and want to see this country moving forward into this century. Yes, we will see some land crimes solved, and some illegal beach vendors removed. But, in terms of dealing with the massive corruption issues, the kind of power guys like the headman of Koh Tao have, and their ability to abuse that power, and positive changes at an institutional level, and at a national level, where it really counts, many of us now doubt it will happen. This case proves, that many are still above the law, and even the Army cannot touch them. That is the devastating moral to this story. A very disappointing outcome indeed.

This is simply a disinformation campaign, aimed at the ignorant. They have found the killer or killers. They have made a conscious decision not to charge him. They know who he is. They have CCTV footage of him following the victims out of the bar. They have eyewitness accounts of the incident that provoked this. The headman is simply too rich, too powerful, and nobody feels compelled to rock that boat, including the Army. It is very disappointing to alot of people here in Thailand and worldwide, to find that the Army does not really want to rock the boat, and upset the status quo. Very disappointing. Very disconcerting. A real shame. Some things never change, I guess. Looks like that crime infested, drug infested island is going to stay the same forever. Little progress there. Nobody in power wants to see change. It is going to take a very powerful force in Bangkok, if anything there is ever going to change.

[ukrules]

This has nothing to do with Cameron and how busy he is. There's a full and dedicated system in place for creating DNA profiles of the whole population, in fact I believe this is their ultimate goal.

When a victim arrives back in the UK after a vicious murder it is investigated, inquests can be held regardless of where the person dies.

If thi shappens samples will have been collected and stored permanently. These samples would be sent to a well equiped DNA lab along with 1000's of other samples collected every week and a full DNA profile of the material will have been produced.

This will have been done already as it's a standard procedure.

Read this - Section 5.2 in particular :

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

If the families of the victims are fully satisfied that a full and honest investigation has taken place then I'm sure there will be no issue.

However if they aren't 100% satisfied then the following appears to apply :

request-assistance.JPG

Also this one from the above link :

request-assistance-2.JPG

So to sum it up, a murder investigation will be launched.

Do you think the families are full satisfied at this stage ?

Is it confirmed that the bodies of the deceased were sent for autopsy in the UK? I thought the Thais only send embalmed bodies abroad after removal of all internal organs in cases like this to avoid the embarrassment of conflicting autopsy reports.

Is is also confirmed that there will be inquests? Without reliable autopsies inquests would be a lot less effective.

Nothing is confirmed. From what I've read it's up to the families. If they are 100% satisfied with the investigation abroad then there would be no investigation.

Do you think the families of the victims are 100% satisfied ?

Don't expect any announcements of intentions. If we hear anything if will be when the results are beyond doubt.

I have a feeling that familial DNA testing could be useful here. Familial DNA analysis can be used to prove guilt just as easily as it can be used to prove innocence.

It's worth remembering that the victims bodies were repatriated quickly, before there were any suggestions that someone with influence may or may not have been involved in this case.

I understand what you are saying, and obviously would be as happy as anyone were it to happen, but how do you suppose the UK investigators would go about getting 'familial DNA'if the family doesn't wish to provide it?

This all depends on which family I'm talking about doesn't it ?

Imagine a scenario where samples collected in the UK are tested against Burmese relatives of the accused.

We know that that familial analysis can prove a relative, it can also be used to disprove a relative if such a relative were available.

[chainarong]

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they're trying to tell everyone that these two Myanmar Midgets first overpowered a young, apparently fit European twice their size, killed him, then raped the girl and killed her, oh, after sharing a condom? Plus, they say they used the handle of the hoe on David, but the pictures of David clearly show that a KNIFE, or some type of SHARP BLADED weapon, was used by his attackers. They can not read, write or speak Thai, but they "confessed" to police after an "intensive interrogation" at a supposed "safe house". And by the video of their "reenactment" of the crime, they had to be "directed" by the Thai police as to what they did.

sorry, way too many "inconsistencies" for me.

Go back a decade or more to an English girl murdered in a Chiang Mai backpackers hotel, the police pinned the tail on a young Sydney guy, the girls parents and the BBC didn't want any of this ,so they hired a private detective, formally of Scotland yard, he found the culprit , the Thai guy who ran the backpackers hostel , the police were so pissed off they had the BBC kicked out of Thailand, that's the sort of sh!!t you have to put up with when dealing with Thai police.

[Mosha]

Interesting development; according to Sanook news the public prosecutor on Samui has doubts about (at least part of) the story and evidence provided by the RTP, as he wont accept what's in the current 800-page report and just sent the entire case back to the police. So it's far from a shut case at this point.

Yeah, I just heard, if so thats awesome to begin with.

The BIB are looking more and more foolish in this awful ongoing saga

They are handling this worse than the Malaysians handled the MH370 debacle.

[T_Dog]

Good opinion piece in the Bangkok Post entitled "Koh Tao case shatters faith in our police." Looks like it is not "To Protect and To Serve" in Thailand, but rather "To Protect The Privileged." The "perfect" job is certainly garnering the attention of the world.

[razer]

I really expected more from the PM. It is his face too.

[Lozza]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

Who now has short back and sides. You don't see too many Thai's at University these days with short haircuts.

[Oziex1]

Good summary of last 3 weeks in BKK post

"Koh Tao case shatters faith in our police"

This report should be nailed in every policestation in this country and of course

on the forehead of JTJ as well

Did they actually have faith in their police!

[Mosha]

a couple of million baht and they will be free and sent back to Burma. Money here buys justice ??????

I hope you mean those 2 lads will be getting the money.

[T_Dog]

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they're trying to tell everyone that these two Myanmar Midgets first overpowered a young, apparently fit European twice their size, killed him, then raped the girl and killed her, oh, after sharing a condom? Plus, they say they used the handle of the hoe on David, but the pictures of David clearly show that a KNIFE, or some type of SHARP BLADED weapon, was used by his attackers. They can not read, write or speak Thai, but they "confessed" to police after an "intensive interrogation" at a supposed "safe house". And by the video of their "reenactment" of the crime, they had to be "directed" by the Thai police as to what they did.

sorry, way too many "inconsistencies" for me.

Go back a decade or more to an English girl murdered in a Chiang Mai backpackers hotel, the police pinned the tail on a young Sydney guy, the girls parents and the BBC didn't want any of this ,so they hired a private detective, formally of Scotland yard, he found the culprit , the Thai guy who ran the backpackers hostel , the police were so pissed off they had the BBC kicked out of Thailand, that's the sort of sh!!t you have to put up with when dealing with Thai police.

Yeah, and it would not surprise me if social media sites like FaceBook do finally get banned here as well.

[soumanioco]

"there was one big problem for the police whove been under intense pressure to show results: No one bought it.

Not the international audience; not the domestic audience."

except these clowns: JohnThailandJohn,soumanioco,Hisseheo,SICHONSTEVE,balo,Tanlic,Beetlejuice

[Benmart]

This is really sad, I find it hard to believe that these 2 little runts are guilty.

Yes, it is sad. Runts? I would reserve my description of the accused to something less derogatory.

[freedom4life]

How come we only get articles like this from 'Coconuts BKK'--surely, if the Burmese have recanted their confessions then major news syndicates would be running the story?

And this one today--where are the big Media players?

They are running the story. Telegraph, Mirror, Independent, New York Daily News, Mail, Guardian etc etc etc.

Not sure what your point is- that the Coconuts Bkk article is inaccurate? Or that you'd rather read an article on it from a different source..?

I wasn't aware that the papers that you mention have printed that the boys have recanted their confessions-yes, those papers have more clout.

There is a lot of press coverage now:-

The Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11145536/Thai-police-deny-cover-up-of-Britons-murders.html & http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/07/suspects-britons-murder-thailand-police-brutality

ITV News: http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-10-07/burmese-murder-suspects-in-british-tourist-killings-say-they-were-beaten/

Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2784707/Burmese-migrants-RECANT-murder-confession-British-tourists-Human-rights-groups-urge-Thailand-investigate-claims-duo-tortured.html

The Mirror: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-murders-burmese-suspect-4398149

New York Daily News: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/thai-police-deny-suspects-confessed-beach-murders-torture-article-1.1966290

Khaosod English: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1412595379

Sydney Morning Herald: http://www.smh.com.au/national/myanmar-man-charged-in-murder-of-british-tourists-says-he-was-tortured-by-police-20141008-10rrxa.html

The Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/murder-suspects-allege-thai-police-brutality-1.1955225

News.com.au: http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/thailand-beach-murders-burmese-suspect-claims-he-was-beaten-tortured-by-police/story-fnizu68q-1227083365604

New Zealand Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11339226

Good work sir, thank you for the links..keep the pressure on. I think there is a petition going around too. Can you provide that link as well?

[freedom4life]

How come we only get articles like this from 'Coconuts BKK'--surely, if the Burmese have recanted their confessions then major news syndicates would be running the story?

And this one today--where are the big Media players?

They are running the story. Telegraph, Mirror, Independent, New York Daily News, Mail, Guardian etc etc etc.

Not sure what your point is- that the Coconuts Bkk article is inaccurate? Or that you'd rather read an article on it from a different source..?

I wasn't aware that the papers that you mention have printed that the boys have recanted their confessions-yes, those papers have more clout.

There is a lot of press coverage now:-

The Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11145536/Thai-police-deny-cover-up-of-Britons-murders.html & http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/07/suspects-britons-murder-thailand-police-brutality

ITV News: http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-10-07/burmese-murder-suspects-in-british-tourist-killings-say-they-were-beaten/

Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2784707/Burmese-migrants-RECANT-murder-confession-British-tourists-Human-rights-groups-urge-Thailand-investigate-claims-duo-tortured.html

The Mirror: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-murders-burmese-suspect-4398149

New York Daily News: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/thai-police-deny-suspects-confessed-beach-murders-torture-article-1.1966290

Khaosod English: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1412595379

Sydney Morning Herald: http://www.smh.com.au/national/myanmar-man-charged-in-murder-of-british-tourists-says-he-was-tortured-by-police-20141008-10rrxa.html

The Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/murder-suspects-allege-thai-police-brutality-1.1955225

News.com.au: http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/thailand-beach-murders-burmese-suspect-claims-he-was-beaten-tortured-by-police/story-fnizu68q-1227083365604

New Zealand Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11339226

Thank you for the links.

[ScotBkk]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

I don't agree with what your saying my friend. This will not go away once the media kicks in again mark my words .....

[Artisi]

The two Burmese guys should be allowed out for a visit to Singapore, they can then report in sick and stay there for as long as they like - very similar to another recent case perfectly handled by the BIB.

[soumanioco]

"there was one big problem for the police whove been under intense pressure to show results: No one bought it.

Not the international audience; not the domestic audience."

except these clowns: JohnThailandJohn,soumanioco,Hisseheo,SICHONSTEVE,balo,Tanlic,Beetlejuice

You want to say this to my face?

[smokie36]

[haybilly]

What???

"You want to say this to my face"

Haha.

Playground stuff.

[T_Dog]

Third Burmese guy has spoken out. He was beaten as well and doesn't think his friends were involved.

[HaleySabai]

a "perfect-job"........ a perfect-crime .

[BlackJack]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

wheres the link

its easy to get a sample

one of his friends or anyone could get one with the right insentive

ie bahts

[Wilsonandson]

1412770579056.jpg

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2014/10/08/more-than-45000-people-sign-petition-for-investigation-into-jerseymans-murder/

[upsidedown]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

Having said that, the silence from everyone close to the case in the UK is soooooo deafening. Hannahs friends, Davids friends, Sean Mcanna. (stab wound in his arm same as the stab wound in davids neck) It cant be a coincidence. I've witnessed it happen with other people upon landing at Heathrow. I would imagine they were all met at the airport getting off the plane and questioned. They've probably been told to not discuss anything with anyone as behind the scenes they are indeed conducting their own investigations. Does Cameron have the balls? Just because the British elite are reserved and have manners, don't think for a minute the authorities are gonna be trod over by anyone. Our security forces are world class professionals. And to add... the murdered kids parents ...if they have been told the truth by people close to them....dont be suprised if they are arranging their own repercussions. I know would be.

[FredNL]

Universal doubts....

Some reactions from outer space:

• E.T. : "RTP is known for their extortions, scapegoats and maffia connections. I can't believe that a few midgets kill a man twice their size while the English girl is getting raped by a third man. These Birmese are just scapegoats. Call home for FBI....!"
• R2D2: "Preeep, beep, beep, preepbeep."
• C3PO: "I will translate R2D2. He says that the Birmese are scapegoats. I think the same."
• Alf: "The RTP on Koh Tao could not even find a cat for me. They came back with a p^ssy for short time and I had to pay the RTP while p^ssy was underaged, not Thai and me being alien."
• Luke Skywalker: "RTP says aliens did it. The whole universe knows better. The RTP must have been paid off."
• Yoda: "A wise man always says. Don't believe the RTP because they go with the force, ahum farce."
• Captain Kirk: "The RTP has been wrong many times, will be wrong many times and is wrong in this case too. Beam me back up, Scotty."

[SOTIRIOS]

.....At the same time, reports filtered out from Burmese media that an embassy lawyer had in fact described it as a “set up” after the two men, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, revealed bruises they said came from torture and recanted their confessions........

...how can this be ignored.....???

[smokie36]

1412770579056.jpg

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2014/10/08/more-than-45000-people-sign-petition-for-investigation-into-jerseymans-murder/

[ukrules]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

I don't agree with what your saying my friend. This will not go away once the media kicks in again mark my words .....

It's a pretty standard thing to continue an investigation back in the UK when someone is murdered abroad.

http://www.sammabroad.org/ukagen.html

[Toscano]

With so many sceptics who think it's a police set up not have Thais involved perhaps the Thai police should simply drop the case and deport the two young men accused .

Let the British police come here and resolve the murder by themselves , then you would be sure that there was no bias of any sort .