Need help with rental contract wording

[mmushr00m]

Hi All

I am getting a new tenant that wants to sign a 3 year contract. I want to add a clause in the contract where the landlord can do an inspection on the property at anytime.But I am having difficulty with the wording to make it sound legalise.

Basically we want to say 1) that at the end of each year we will do an inspection of the condo 2) if there is any damage the tenant will have to pay for the fix (not from the deposit) 3)if the landlord deem the damage to be excessive and unacceptable, the landlord can terminate the contract (and keep the deposits).

Also want to add that the room comes as is and the tenants cannot remove items. The condo comes with 2 TVs, fridge etc the guy's girlfriend had asked about removing them and we have said no. The guy is ok with it but...... so this is to cover that.

Would greatly appreciate any help in writing it up all nice and legal looking.

Thanks.

[beachproperty]

What you have written sounds great to add to the contract ....no need to make it "sound" legal as that usually just confuses the situation. There is a maxim in law called the "KISS" theory.....Keep It Simple Stupid.

By keeping it in layman terms, easy for everyone to understand.

In the west you would have a problem enforcing your 3rd provision as it is vague and the standard of your opinion as to excessive and unacceptable damage basicly makes the contract one sided (ie you might determine some small trivial damage as major just to get rid of the tenant)

BUT this is Thailand and soooo probably no problem having a clause in it like that.

Also take an inventory of items included in the unit ....refrigerator, TV and any other furnishings (Take pictures of them TOO to show their condition) , include inventory with contract and have tenant sign.

Good Luck

Edited October 9, 2014 by beachproperty

[worgeordie]

We just say. Entrance and Inspection,The owner retains the right to enter and inspect the property,after the

tenant has been given 24 hours advanced notice to do so.

Extensions,Adjustments The tenant shall not make any extensions or adjustments or decorations to the property

without written consent of the owner.

Property Check. The tenant has checked the property and inventory and agrees that everything is in good order

and will return in the same condition at the end of the rental period.

Laws The laws of Thailand apply

The owner retains the right to cancel this contract without notice,if the tenant fails or violates any of the terms and

conditions of this contract,and will forfeit the security deposit.

The tenant will be totally responsible for any expenses due to legal fees and transportation used in

gathering legal evidence required in case of any violation of this contract.

Security Deposit security deposit of -------- is to be paid by the tenant and will be held by the owner,till the end of the contract,

provided there are no outstanding utility bills or damage to the property, This deposit is neither the rent nor limit of liability by the

lessee and in case of damage over the said deposit.

Utility charges The tenant will be responsible for paying electric,water,telephone,garbage collection and security charges for rental period.

Sub Letting The tenant is not allowed to sub let any part of the property.

Illegal use The tenant shall not allow any person to perform any activities within or in connection the the premises contrary to the laws of The Kingdom of Thailand.

That should help you write a contract, also make a list of all contents, I would happily remove the tv s and fridge if they don't want them, let them use their own,

less to worry about,OK if you have somewhere to store,

After a 3 year rent you have to accept some ware and tare,no way is it going to be the same condition as when you let it,

Good luck,hope you get good tenant.

regards Worgordie

[mike324]

This is whats in my contract that falls under the tenants side:

(1) To pay the rent and other charges within the dates stipulated in this agreement.

(2) To keep all floors, floor coverings, walls, ceilings, windows, doors, furniture, domestic appliances, and all fixtures and fittings in or on the Premises in good condition, normal fair wear and tear are excepted. Lessee agrees not to drill more than 10 holes in any wall surface. Doing so will result in a charge for repair if such holes are not repaired by the Lessee.

(3) To permit the Lessor or his agent to enter the Premises for the purpose of inspection at all reasonable times during daylight hours provided that prior arrangements are made with the Lessee.

(4) Not to make any alterations or additions to the Premises without prior consent in writing from the Lessor. If the Lessee makes any alterations without the written consent of the Lessor, the Lessee must, if the Lessor so desires, at the request of the Lessor, restore the Premises to their former condition, and he is liable to the Lessor for any loss or damage that may result from such alteration or addition. Any fixtures installed by the Lessee shall be at his own expense and, if not removed at the end of the Agreement term, shall become the property of the Lessor. All furniture and appliances brought into the Premises by the Lessee and/or his family shall at all times be the property of the Lessee and shall be removed at the end of the lease term.

(5) Not to do nor permit to be done on the Premises anything which may cause a nuisance or interference to neighboring premises or their occupants, such as smoking or any activities which produce a strong odor. The Lessee also agrees to act accordingly with the Rules & Regulations of the Condominium building.

(6) To notify the Lessor or his representative and the Juristic Management of any damage or defect on the Premises immediately, in order to reduce the risk of further damage.

(7) To make good any damage to the Premises caused by the negligence or misconduct of the Lessee, his family, or servants.

(8) The Lessee is bound to take as much care of the Premises leased as a person of ordinary prudence would take of his own property. Any small repairs such as change of light bulb shall be the responsibility of the Lessee.

(9) That at the end or sooner termination of the tenancy, the Lessee will return all the keys of the Premises to the Lessor.

(10) To use the premises for dwelling purposes only.

(11) To pay for all utilities including electricity, water, telephone bills, True visions cable TV, internet or any other utilities charged monthly which is consumed (used) on the premises during the term of this Agreement.

(12) Not to neither smoke nor allow smoking within the premises

(13) Not to assign or sublet the Premises or any part hereof without prior written consent of the Lessor.

Edited October 9, 2014 by mike324

[ldnguy]

Plain English is better than some legal mumbo jumbo. Don't complicate things that don't need complicating. There's already too much of that in the world.

[mmushr00m]

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the feedback.

[brewsterbudgen]

Is it normal to have a clause prohibiting smoking in a rental contract?

[ldnguy]

Is it normal to have a clause prohibiting smoking in a rental contract?

Yes. I have such a clause in the properties and rent out to others and in the one I rent for myself. It's normal if you don't want people smoking in your property. It's extremely difficult to find new tenants if the previous ones have been smoking in teh property. The walls, curtains, furniture and everything else ends up stinking. Who would want that?

[Mrjlh]

Good point was made about the frig and TV. If they don't want them take them out and remove from the contract or have a place to show on the inventory list it was not included. With those items, if either one breaks, and you know they will over time, it is your obligation to replace them at your cost not theirs because it is included in the contract. And it has to be replaced in a reasonable amount of time. You can't wait until the next months rent is paid to buy a frig. So what ever they don't need take it out.

[12DrinkMore]

Good point was made about the frig and TV. If they don't want them take them out and remove from the contract or have a place to show on the inventory list it was not included. With those items, if either one breaks, and you know they will over time, it is your obligation to replace them at your cost not theirs because it is included in the contract. And it has to be replaced in a reasonable amount of time. You can't wait until the next months rent is paid to buy a frig. So what ever they don't need take it out.

I have a Thai landlord.

When the shower heater stopped working I asked him to come and look at it.

He came.

He looked.

He said its not working.

I asked about a replacement.

He just laughed.

It did annoy me. So who is normally responsible for this?

When I had a property in the UK, the tenants used to even call a plumber in to replace tap washers. That annoyed me as well. Washer cost 20P, plumber call out 20 Quid.

[maxjay]

This is a good English/Thai rental contract:

Rental Contract.doc

[NoshowJones]

Plain English is better than some legal mumbo jumbo. Don't complicate things that don't need complicating. There's already too much of that in the world.

Things are deliberately made complicated hoping that you won't understand things properly, so they can get money of you in some situations, just as small print is used hoping you will miss it which will be to the person providing the services financial advantage.

[asdecas]

Why do you need to word it in legalese in Thailand? If push ever came to shove, no judge in this country would take note of a contract written in cod legal English in any case.

[ldnguy]

Plain English is better than some legal mumbo jumbo. Don't complicate things that don't need complicating. There's already too much of that in the world.

Things are deliberately made complicated hoping that you won't understand things properly, so they can get money of you in some situations, just as small print is used hoping you will miss it which will be to the person providing the services financial advantage.

I don't think so. My contracts are also more than a little complicated because the agent provides them and they are written by lawyers. I have had a two legal type contracts when I rented places here and neither landlord used it to get money from me. Every landlord in Thailand has refunded my deposit in full. One even refunded before I left because he was going away. Two landlords want me to come back. So what you say hasn't been true for me at all and neither has it for anyone I know. Not even one single person. But I'm sure people on here will have some bad stories, because bad things always seem to happen to people on this forum.

[ldnguy]

Why do you need to word it in legalese in Thailand? If push ever came to shove, no judge in this country would take note of a contract written in cod legal English in any case.

Very true. They would look to the Thai version.

[12DrinkMore]

Plain English is better than some legal mumbo jumbo. Don't complicate things that don't need complicating. There's already too much of that in the world.

Things are deliberately made complicated hoping that you won't understand things properly, so they can get money of you in some situations, just as small print is used hoping you will miss it which will be to the person providing the services financial advantage.

I don't think so. My contracts are also more than a little complicated because the agent provides them and they are written by lawyers. I have had a two legal type contracts when I rented places here and neither landlord used it to get money from me. Every landlord in Thailand has refunded my deposit in full. One even refunded before I left because he was going away. Two landlords want me to come back. So what you say hasn't been true for me at all and neither has it for anyone I know. Not even one single person. But I'm sure people on here will have some bad stories, because bad things always seem to happen to people on this forum.

It is self-selection.

Only those who have some issue come and post it on TV.

All the thousands of others who happily get along with their landlords, receive their deposits back and don't have any problems, do not post.

"Just moved out, got the deposit back and found a nice new place"

Nobody writes that.

I have come across two who did not get the deposit back. Both ruined furniture and left the place in a really bad state. And they still complained and moaned, thinking they were being hard done to.

Those are the guys who come and post on TV.

[NanLaew]

I have a Thai landlord.

When the shower heater stopped working I asked him to come and look at it.

He came.

He looked.

He said its not working.

I asked about a replacement.

He just laughed.

It did annoy me. So who is normally responsible for this?

When I had a property in the UK, the tenants used to even call a plumber in to replace tap washers. That annoyed me as well. Washer cost 20P, plumber call out 20 Quid.

You are the tenant using the shower heater so you need to replace it. If about 4500 baht means a lot to you, keep the broken one and when it is time to vacate the premises, you reinstall it.

You could also remove the new washers that you have purchased to fix drippy taps and put the worn ones back in.

[12DrinkMore]

I have a Thai landlord.

When the shower heater stopped working I asked him to come and look at it.

He came.

He looked.

He said its not working.

I asked about a replacement.

He just laughed.

It did annoy me. So who is normally responsible for this?

When I had a property in the UK, the tenants used to even call a plumber in to replace tap washers. That annoyed me as well. Washer cost 20P, plumber call out 20 Quid.

You are the tenant using the shower heater so you need to replace it. If about 4500 baht means a lot to you, keep the broken one and when it is time to vacate the premises, you reinstall it.

You could also remove the new washers that you have purchased to fix drippy taps and put the worn ones back in.

So what's with the fair wear and tear?

The old one must have been three years old when I moved in. Surely the rent must cover something more than being simply income to the landlord? The life of a shower unit must be around five years or so. It is a fixture, the replacement should not fall to the current tenant like a lottery ticket.

And if I re-installed the old none-working unit, is that not a problem? Or is a none-working device fine? Just as long as something is attached to the wall?

The dripping taps issue was when I was on the other side renting out a house. A spanner and a 20P washer could have fixed it easily, but the tenant, acting through the agent, simply called in a plumber.

I have absolutely no problem replacing light bulbs and washers. But electrical fittings are surely amortised in the rent?

What happens if the aircon fails two weeks after moving in? Two months? Six months? Two years?

[mmushr00m]

Thanks guys.

I am just nervous (actually its the missus) as this is my 1st tenant that have wanted to sign a 3 year lease.

Previous tenants were one year and one year followed by monthly ongoing. Previous tenants were also females (yes yes I know I am generalising)

Please have a look at the attachment and tell me what you think.

Lease test.doc

Edited October 10, 2014 by mmushr00m

[NoshowJones]

Plain English is better than some legal mumbo jumbo. Don't complicate things that don't need complicating. There's already too much of that in the world.

Things are deliberately made complicated hoping that you won't understand things properly, so they can get money of you in some situations, just as small print is used hoping you will miss it which will be to the person providing the services financial advantage.

I don't think so. My contracts are also more than a little complicated because the agent provides them and they are written by lawyers. I have had a two legal type contracts when I rented places here and neither landlord used it to get money from me. Every landlord in Thailand has refunded my deposit in full. One even refunded before I left because he was going away. Two landlords want me to come back. So what you say hasn't been true for me at all and neither has it for anyone I know. Not even one single person. But I'm sure people on here will have some bad stories, because bad things always seem to happen to people on this forum.

It is self-selection.

Only those who have some issue come and post it on TV.

All the thousands of others who happily get along with their landlords, receive their deposits back and don't have any problems, do not post.

"Just moved out, got the deposit back and found a nice new place"

Nobody writes that.

I have come across two who did not get the deposit back. Both ruined furniture and left the place in a really bad state. And they still complained and moaned, thinking they were being hard done to.

Those are the guys who come and post on TV.

Good post, but I am not neccessary referring to renting houses or apartments, I am referring to everything in general, insurance companies etc etc. there are a lot of people, both TV members and otherwise who have lost out financially because of legal mumbo jumbo, and small print. What is so hard about keeping wording the same size apart from headings? What is wrong with explaining things in plain easy to understand English? Any fair minded person would agree with that.

[Liquorice]

12DrinkMore, on 10 Oct 2014 - 22:39, said:

NanLaew, on 10 Oct 2014 - 22:25, said:

12DrinkMore, on 10 Oct 2014 - 16:04, said:

I have a Thai landlord.

When the shower heater stopped working I asked him to come and look at it.

He came.

He looked.

He said its not working.

I asked about a replacement.

He just laughed.

It did annoy me. So who is normally responsible for this?

When I had a property in the UK, the tenants used to even call a plumber in to replace tap washers. That annoyed me as well. Washer cost 20P, plumber call out 20 Quid.

You are the tenant using the shower heater so you need to replace it. If about 4500 baht means a lot to you, keep the broken one and when it is time to vacate the premises, you reinstall it.

You could also remove the new washers that you have purchased to fix drippy taps and put the worn ones back in.

So what's with the fair wear and tear?

The old one must have been three years old when I moved in. Surely the rent must cover something more than being simply income to the landlord? The life of a shower unit must be around five years or so. It is a fixture, the replacement should not fall to the current tenant like a lottery ticket.

And if I re-installed the old none-working unit, is that not a problem? Or is a none-working device fine? Just as long as something is attached to the wall?

The dripping taps issue was when I was on the other side renting out a house. A spanner and a 20P washer could have fixed it easily, but the tenant, acting through the agent, simply called in a plumber.

I have absolutely no problem replacing light bulbs and washers. But electrical fittings are surely amortised in the rent?

What happens if the aircon fails two weeks after moving in? Two months? Six months? Two years?

In your home Country their are laws concerning the rights of a tenant and the obligations of a landlord.

Here in Thailand, it's very much a case of a personal arrangement between the tenant and the landlord.

You rent as is, if anything fails you negotiate with the landlord.

Contracts rarely cover repairs to fixtures and fittings, because most fittings are cheap Chinese crap, that constantly needs repair/replacement.

I rented a nice looking house 3 months ago, but I found at certain times of the day the water pressure would drop so low that I barely got a trickle from the shower, the safety cut out in the shower wouldn't allow the heater element to work either, so a cold dribbling shower.

The Thai's will have a bin full of water and bowl for such circumstances and are quite happy to pour cold water over their head and body in order to wash............for them it's not an issue...........it's the norm in Thailand. A renting Thai wouldn't complain

A westerner however may find this unacceptable because we expect western standards of comfort and higher standards.

In my case, I installed a water tank and pump, the landlord agreed to pay half the cost.

After increasing the water pressure though every tap in the house started to leak, most snapped when I tried to replace the washers.

I ended up replacing 5 taps, not a fortune.

Now I have peace of mind, good water pressure day and night and a hot shower if needed.

The repairs benefited my expected standards, not the Thai landlords.

Sometimes if you want things done, you've got to expect to pay out of your pocket if it benefits your comfort and standard of living.

I pay 1/7th of the rent here, than I get for renting my home in the UK.

I'm even decorating internally at my own expense because I'm the one living in the house and I get the benefit out of it.

I'm retired so it keeps me occupied as well.

[Strangebrew]

Look one you need to do inventory on property that's one if tenant dosen't want a certain tv there then you as landlord have choice one remove off inventory list and store it yourself two dump it They shouldn't be required to store for you. Now your lucky you got long term tenant a plus , But your right to inspect property is just that your right it should read if landlord gives reasonable notice to come view or do repairs he gives notice of time and date of such needed entry to said property. That is reasonable that way tenant can be present at that time.

[thailand49]

Here is my free advise to you although it is in Thailand. Here is my background. I had a Real Estate license for twenty years which I use only on my spare time. My specialty was rental income which I managed a number of apartment buildings for cash under the table. Basically I would take on owners building that have been run as if the owners were slum lords and their building now basically have been overtaken by bad tenants and hit with number building violation citation. This usually happens when the building has a absentee manager or owner. Last I also have a rental building here in Pattaya that my wife runs and I pretty much fix everything and through bad experience have come up with this method.

If you want to do it right you need to invest some time and money and in the end you will have less HEADACHES...by first having the Thai lease being translated to you so you can see what is being demanded of the tenant? Sorry if you want to do it right leave your Thai girlfriend or wife out of the process. Personally too bad if they loose face because in the end when the shit hits the fan you all comes back to you footing out the money to fix the problem. Find a way to make her understand because you do understand this is Thailand it doesn't mean you are stupid in fact if she feels that way it is her that is being stupid!

Once you have the lease translated so you can see what is being said... do this created a " Addendum " and have it translated in Thai and add to the lease for them to sign.

The lease should indicate the things you want like a owner right to.... Notify and inspect Unit/House/condo with 24 hours of noticed from said owner in which ;tenant does not need to be in Unit of the time of inspection. There is also a one year annual inspection required in which owner will provide for 24 hour notice again tenant does not need to be present.

On inspection if there are any damage or defects that requires correction it will be done at the renters expense within 30 days and immediately if said conditions poses a safety issue to the unit or tenant and public. If attention is immediate the owner reserve the right to fix the said condition using the tenants deposit. Thereafter the used deposit or all must be made whole by the tenant within 7 days or termination of lease will be given.

Generally a rule of thumb in the States at least is Deposit can not be use as last month rent.. When it comes to deposit I believe in being fare... and legally I give a breakdown of why I am taking a amount and the amount should be fare amount? once you start to charge for example 100 baht for a item that cost 2 baht you are opening a can of worms no matter where you are. I also would take out anything the tenant does not want especially the T.V, the less you provide the less problems you have with deposit. If you don't have a place for the stuff sell it or give it away!

Also this is to protect the tenant and owners... Take picture of the condo and have these photos download and printed and attached them to the your next project called at : Inventory list / Walk-Thru. This list contains the present condition of every room including in your condo it goes like this for example.

Front door: remarks should be written in hand.. Intact no damage, lock working

Bedroom One:

Door intact lock working

Floors: No holes or crack titles,

Walls: No holes

Window: Intact no crack or broken glass and working.

When you give this list to the tenant you should walk them through the list and identify everything including the T.V.'s and Frig... then give them 24 hours to return the list so when they are alone and not be pressure they can go over your list and if they find items you have missed they can add notation to the list. When all said and done and everyone agrees to the final comments on your list everyone signs. This list is use whenever you do any inspection including when the guy wants to move out. When the guy gives notice to leave you take this list come in and inspection any problem ask the guy to fix them before he leaves. The day he leaves you do final inspection and if all goes well, everyone signs off and you give him the deposit or minus whatever he does not fix? Get tenant to sign each photo and provide them with copies after everything is sign.

This post has been long and seem to be lots of work... I managed eight buildings for 25 plus years in a major city and follow this process and never had a problem. This is like a screening process I use because the procedure are there to protect both parties and tenants that do not want to do it just want to rent and free to do whatever they want. Which cause problem to you and others around them.. Everyone has a expectation and right to enjoy their unit. Prior to me putting these rules in for my building in Pattaya and it is a small place I had people coming and going skipping out and trashing the place. I had everything done in Thai for them. those who can't or won't go through the process left those who stay have a quiet and clean place to live. Even my other half loves it and for me barely any headache now prior I rather they go empty than just rent it out to anyone?

Good luck...

[mmushr00m]

Thank-you everyone for your input.

As the potential tenant is a farang + thai couple, I have translated a thai copy of the contract as well.

Note I still use the word "potential", after receiving the contract they are now dithering.

Not going to say over what until its all settled. lol it could be one of you guys