All retirement visa applications must now be made outside of Thailand?

[Mobi]

I have now heard from two different sources that immigration in Pattaya is no longer accepting applications for new retirement visas from the applicants who have entered on an ‘O’, or even worse, a tourist visa. They are not allowed to convert.

The applicants have been told they must leave Thailand and apply for a retirement visa ‘outside of Thailand’ – presumably from their home country, but not necessarily.

If this is so, retirees from the UK would not be able to apply until they are 65, as one of the requirements of the Thai embassy in London is that the applicant has a current state pension. Private pensions are not acceptable.

Also, if this ruling is applied nationwide, it seems to suggest that no new applications for retirement visas can be made inside Thailand and they must be all made from the home country of the applicant, or at least outside Thailand.

As far as I am aware, there is no suggestion that existing retirees will be caught up in all this.

Have I got this all round my neck? Anyone else have any info on this?

Thanks.

PS – yes, I know, it is a retirement extension, not really a visa...

[Upnotover]

Sounds odd, as it is an extension of stay (as you mention) it seems to me a bit hard to do that outside of Thailand.

[glegolo]

expats romour-making round the table in Pattaya, nobody knows anything, just spreading all kind of trash!!

Do NOT listen to that,,,,,

Gledolo

[KarenBravo]

There is no such thing as a "retirement visa". You can get a visa (any type) with the aim of getting a years extension for retirement purposes.

You can fly in, get the 30 day visa exemption stamp, then, during the last 14 days, go to immigration, show 800,000 Bt that has been in the correct type of bank account for the required time, and you can get a one year extension that can be extended each and every year dependent on showing the correct amount of money in your bank account.

[ubonjoe]

That is total nonsense. I am certain that is totally false info.

You don't convert anything if you already have a non-o visa you can apply directly for the extension.

[NancyL]

I know someone who just got a single-entry 90-day O visa from the Portland, Oregon Hon. Consulate and told them in the cover letter he was planning to retire and do a 12-month extension in Chiang Mai. He included documentation of private pension income in excess of 65,000 baht/month. So, as of last week, it was business-as-usual in Portland, Oregon.

[lopburi3]

The requirements from Thai Embassy in London are listed on this web site and make no such reference to pension.

1. Copy of bank statement having in possession of annually income equivalent to Thai currency at
   least 800,000 Baht or monthly income 65,000 Baht. (approximately GBP 14,000.00/annum)

http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/51

[Mobi]

I have been holding a retirement visa in Thailand for more than 12 years so I know the system and requirements like the back of my hand.

You can all say it is nonsense till you are blue in the face, but this has definitely been happening to at least two people who applied for retirement visas in Jomtien immigration. In both cases they held 'O' visas and were told they must leave the country and apply outside for their retirement visa.

The issue of The London Thai embassy insisting on the applicant having a state pension has been well documented on Thai Visa in other threads. That does not mean that every embassy has similar rules. Again it is well documented that different consulates appear free to make up their own rules.

It may have been a rogue officer at Jomtien, or just new 'local' rules. Who knows? I hadn't heard about it elsewhere and that is why I posted the question here.

There is so much upheaval and uncertainty with regards to all visas at present that anything is possible.

Specifically I would be interested in any other would be retirees who have recently experienced similar problems at Jomtien, or indeed elsewhere in Thailand.

[KarenBravo]

What are you talking about? A new visa, or a new extension?

[Jingthing]

Mobi, were these fresh and new O visas in their passports or had they ALREADY been used for OTHER extension reasons (not retirement)?

If the latter, that would explain the origin of a rumor.

O-A visas of course (Long Stay / Retirement) are only available from home countries (or third country perm residence countries). That is not new. You can't just go to Malaysia and get an O-A visa (unless you're Malaysian, etc.).

[Jingthing]

What are you talking about? A new visa, or a new extension?

Indeed, it seems people are always confused about the correct terminology around retirement here. Yes, even staff at immigration offices commonly use incorrect terminology, calling extensions retirement visas.

I am in the camp of totally NOT believing this rumor about any kind of major change in the retirement extension process at Jomtien.

Of course, future evidence could change that, but I haven't seen it yet.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[Mobi]

The requirements from Thai Embassy in London are listed on this web site and make no such reference to pension.

1. Copy of bank statement having in possession of annually income equivalent to Thai currency at

   least 800,000 Baht or monthly income 65,000 Baht. (approximately GBP 14,000.00/annum)

http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/51

Again, it has been well documented in this forum that the requirements as listed on the website and the requirements as required by the embassy staff are two different things.

I've had a quick look, but can't find the specific thread about the requirement by staff for applicants to have a state pension, but its there somewhere and I'm not going crazy.

I will be very happy to be wrong on this, but as yet remain unconvinced.

[ubonjoe]

I have been holding a retirement visa in Thailand for more than 12 years so I know the system and requirements like the back of my hand.

You can all say it is nonsense till you are blue in the face, but this has definitely been happening to at least two people who applied for retirement visas in Jomtien immigration. In both cases they held 'O' visas and were told they must leave the country and apply outside for their retirement visa.

The issue of The London Thai embassy insisting on the applicant having a state pension has been well documented on Thai Visa in other threads. That does not mean that every embassy has similar rules. Again it is well documented that different consulates appear free to make up their own rules.

It may have been a rogue officer at Jomtien, or just new 'local' rules. Who knows? I hadn't heard about it elsewhere and that is why I posted the question here.

There is so much upheaval and uncertainty with regards to all visas at present that anything is possible.

Specifically I would be interested in any other would be retirees who have recently experienced similar problems at Jomtien, or indeed elsewhere in Thailand.

So you have been going to an embassy or consulate every year to get new visa. Or have you been going to immigration and applying for an extension of stay (it is not a visa).

There have been a couple of reports of Jomtien not allowing a change from a ED extension to retirement. Perhaps that is what you heard about. Those are the only reports I have seen. There have been reports of people getting their extensions just like they always have.

The 65 or over and on a OAP is only for getting a multiple entry non-o visa from one of the consulates in the UK. There are some people that have gotten single entry non-o visas that were under 65. The embassy still does OA visas for those 50 or over.

[Jingthing]

...

There have been a couple of reports of Jomtien not allowing a change from a ED extension to retirement. Perhaps that is what you heard about.

...

Exactly!

[Mobi]

I have been holding a retirement visa in Thailand for more than 12 years so I know the system and requirements like the back of my hand.

You can all say it is nonsense till you are blue in the face, but this has definitely been happening to at least two people who applied for retirement visas in Jomtien immigration. In both cases they held 'O' visas and were told they must leave the country and apply outside for their retirement visa.

The issue of The London Thai embassy insisting on the applicant having a state pension has been well documented on Thai Visa in other threads. That does not mean that every embassy has similar rules. Again it is well documented that different consulates appear free to make up their own rules.

It may have been a rogue officer at Jomtien, or just new 'local' rules. Who knows? I hadn't heard about it elsewhere and that is why I posted the question here.

There is so much upheaval and uncertainty with regards to all visas at present that anything is possible.

Specifically I would be interested in any other would be retirees who have recently experienced similar problems at Jomtien, or indeed elsewhere in Thailand.

So you have been going to an embassy or consulate every year to get new visa. Or have you been going to immigration and applying for an extension of stay (it is not a visa).

There have been a couple of reports of Jomtien not allowing a change from a ED extension to retirement. Perhaps that is what you heard about. Those are the only reports I have seen. There have been reports of people getting their extensions just like they always have.

The 65 or over and on a OAP is only for getting a multiple entry non-o visa from one of the consulates in the UK. There are some people that have gotten single entry non-o visas that were under 65. The embassy still does OA visas for those 50 or over.

Thank you, you could well be correct on this. I will check my source and revert.

As far as I'm concerned, all my extensions have been made in Thailand, and I did say in my original post that I know it is not a visa.

I'm confused.... of course... what's the difference between a "multiple non-o visa" and an "OA visa"? and why should somebody wishing to live in Thailand on a retirement visa apply for one rather than the other?

[partington]

I have been holding a retirement visa in Thailand for more than 12 years so I know the system and requirements like the back of my hand.

You can all say it is nonsense till you are blue in the face, but this has definitely been happening to at least two people who applied for retirement visas in Jomtien immigration. In both cases they held 'O' visas and were told they must leave the country and apply outside for their retirement visa.

The issue of The London Thai embassy insisting on the applicant having a state pension has been well documented on Thai Visa in other threads. That does not mean that every embassy has similar rules. Again it is well documented that different consulates appear free to make up their own rules.

It may have been a rogue officer at Jomtien, or just new 'local' rules. Who knows? I hadn't heard about it elsewhere and that is why I posted the question here.

There is so much upheaval and uncertainty with regards to all visas at present that anything is possible.

Specifically I would be interested in any other would be retirees who have recently experienced similar problems at Jomtien, or indeed elsewhere in Thailand.

So you have been going to an embassy or consulate every year to get new visa. Or have you been going to immigration and applying for an extension of stay (it is not a visa).

There have been a couple of reports of Jomtien not allowing a change from a ED extension to retirement. Perhaps that is what you heard about. Those are the only reports I have seen. There have been reports of people getting their extensions just like they always have.

The 65 or over and on a OAP is only for getting a multiple entry non-o visa from one of the consulates in the UK. There are some people that have gotten single entry non-o visas that were under 65. The embassy still does OA visas for those 50 or over.

Thank you, you could well be correct on this. I will check my source and revert.

As far as I'm concerned, all my extensions have been made in Thailand, and I did say in my original post that I know it is not a visa.

I'm confused.... of course... what's the difference between a "multiple non-o visa" and an "OA visa"? and why should somebody wishing to live in Thailand on a retirement visa apply for one rather than the other?

A multiple non-o visa allows you only 90 days stay each entry. An OA visa allows you a 1 year stay each entry, and has greater certification requirements (income; police certificate; medical certificate).

[ubonjoe]

I'm confused.... of course... what's the difference between a "multiple non-o visa" and an "OA visa"? and why should somebody wishing to live in Thailand on a retirement visa apply for one rather than the other?

A multiple entry non-o visa allows 90 day entries for a year. A non-oa visa gives one year entries for a year and can only be applied for at the embassy in your home country.

Most people that get the non-o visa because they cannot meet the financial requirements to get a OA visa or extension of stay.

[Mobi]

I have been holding a retirement visa in Thailand for more than 12 years so I know the system and requirements like the back of my hand.

You can all say it is nonsense till you are blue in the face, but this has definitely been happening to at least two people who applied for retirement visas in Jomtien immigration. In both cases they held 'O' visas and were told they must leave the country and apply outside for their retirement visa.

The issue of The London Thai embassy insisting on the applicant having a state pension has been well documented on Thai Visa in other threads. That does not mean that every embassy has similar rules. Again it is well documented that different consulates appear free to make up their own rules.

It may have been a rogue officer at Jomtien, or just new 'local' rules. Who knows? I hadn't heard about it elsewhere and that is why I posted the question here.

There is so much upheaval and uncertainty with regards to all visas at present that anything is possible.

Specifically I would be interested in any other would be retirees who have recently experienced similar problems at Jomtien, or indeed elsewhere in Thailand.

So you have been going to an embassy or consulate every year to get new visa. Or have you been going to immigration and applying for an extension of stay (it is not a visa).

There have been a couple of reports of Jomtien not allowing a change from a ED extension to retirement. Perhaps that is what you heard about. Those are the only reports I have seen. There have been reports of people getting their extensions just like they always have.

The 65 or over and on a OAP is only for getting a multiple entry non-o visa from one of the consulates in the UK. There are some people that have gotten single entry non-o visas that were under 65. The embassy still does OA visas for those 50 or over.

Thank you, you could well be correct on this. I will check my source and revert.

As far as I'm concerned, all my extensions have been made in Thailand, and I did say in my original post that I know it is not a visa.

I'm confused.... of course... what's the difference between a "multiple non-o visa" and an "OA visa"? and why should somebody wishing to live in Thailand on a retirement visa apply for one rather than the other?

A multiple non-o visa allows you only 90 days stay each entry. An OA visa allows you a 1 year stay each entry, and has greater certification requirements (income; police certificate; medical certificate).

Thanks. Well I'm guessing now, but maybe these guys held multiple non-o visas and they tried to convert them into one year retirement extensions and were refused, effectively being told to go back to the UK and apply for the full OA visa.

If this is so, I go back to my original hypothesis that new applicants with non-O visas can no longer apply for a NEW retirement 'visa' in Thailand . This means that the application process is effectively shut down for new retirees within Thailand and can only be done from their home embassy by applying for an O-A based on retirement.

I am not talking about extensions to retirement 'visas' previously issued which can be done in the usual way at the local immigration office without leaving the country.

My understanding was that what they were trying to do was previously possible and is no longer so. When I applied for my one year extension in Bangkok 12 years ago I held a non-B visa. Many of my friends held tourist visas and were able to convert them and get retirement extensions. Maybe all this is now closed for new applicants, including those holding ' non-O's'.

I will try to obtain more specific info.and report back.

[lopburi3]

Embassy has never required being age 65 or having a pension to issue a non immigrant o-a visa - you have confused the Consulate issue of non immigrant O visas for retirement where they do require an age of 65 per Hull below now.

Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over.

Evidence required:

a) Current “DWP Pension Statement” showing receipt of UK State Pension (no minimum

necessary).

Either a single or multiple entry visa may be granted in these circumstances.

[Brit_Doggie]

Well if russians can get a OA Visa aged over 50 within thailand itself then i'm sure other nationalities can also,oh btw they didn't have the OA and wanted a retirement extension also which the agency arranged wham bam 32k please maam.

[Jingthing]

Well if russians can get a OA Visa aged over 50 within thailand itself then i'm sure other nationalities can also,oh btw they didn't have the OA and wanted a retirement extension also which the agency arranged wham bam 32k please maam.

No. You are wrong. An O-A visa obtained IN THAILAND is available to nobody of any nationality.

Typical confusion. Surely what you think is an O-A is actually a conversion from an entry stamp of tourist to an O done at a Thai immigration office (including Jomtien) and then a retirement extension. No O-A visas involved in that at all.

Nothing new about these conversions ... done at many but not all Thai immigration offices.

Totally legal. You need to pay no visa agent for this service if eligible.

There are also presumably corrupt enterprises (nothing special about Russians again) where people can pay presumably dodgy visa fixers for retirement EXTENSIONS based on 800K bank accounts when the people neither than all that money OR have seasoned all that money. Nothing new about that either. The stamps obtained are probably legal ... how they were obtained, I won't be the judge of that!

Edited October 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[partington]

A multiple non-o visa allows you only 90 days stay each entry. An OA visa allows you a 1 year stay each entry, and has greater certification requirements (income; police certificate; medical certificate).

Thanks. Well I'm guessing now, but maybe these guys held multiple non-o visas and they tried to convert them into one year retirement extensions and were refused, effectively being told to go back to the UK and apply for the full OA visa.

If this is so, I go back to my original hypothesis that new applicants with non-O visas can no longer apply for a NEW retirement 'visa' in Thailand . This means that the application process is effectively shut down for new retirees within Thailand and can only be done from their home embassy by applying for an O-A based on retirement.

I am not talking about extensions to retirement 'visas' previously issued which can be done in the usual way at the local immigration office without leaving the country.

My understanding was that what they were trying to do was previously possible and is no longer so. When I applied for my one year extension in Bangkok 12 years ago I held a non-B visa. Many of my friends held tourist visas and were able to convert them and get retirement extensions. Maybe all this is now closed for new applicants, including those holding ' non-O's'.

I will try to obtain more specific info.and report back.

Yes you should, I think you are still confused and confusing with your terminology.

Are you now claiming that you think that :

people who have just been issued a non-imm o visa, attempt for the first time to extend permission to stay on it for one year, on the grounds of retirement, are now being refused and told to go out of the country and get a non-Imm OA visa.

AND also: people who got non -Imm O visas many years ago and are on their fourth or fifth extension attempt are still being allowed to do it?

If so, this doesn't agree with your first post yet when you say the quote below you seem to be describing exactly the same thing as if you think they are different.

but maybe these guys held multiple non-o visas and they tried to convert them into one year retirement extensions and were refused, effectively being told to go back to the UK and apply for the full OA visa.

[...]

I am not talking about extensions to retirement 'visas' previously issued which can be done in the usual way at the local immigration office without leaving the country.

Can you please try to explain using the correct terminology ( ie extension, new non-imm O, new non-Imm OA) or it's really impossible to understand what you are on about!

[ubonjoe]

Well if russians can get a OA Visa aged over 50 within thailand itself then i'm sure other nationalities can also,oh btw they didn't have the OA and wanted a retirement extension also which the agency arranged wham bam 32k please maam.

You are calling an extension of stay a OA visa which is completely wrong.

They probably got under the table conversions to a non immigrant visa entry and then an extension of stay.

[tom21]

the only visa I have heard of being issued in Thailand is the non imm O. this is only done when the applicant has requested a 12 month extension and does not have a non imm O. the applicant is then told to reapply for the extension in 3 months. then things do change

[Jingthing]

the only visa I have heard of being issued in Thailand is the non imm O. this is only done when the applicant has requested a 12 month extension and does not have a non imm O. the applicant is then told to reapply for the extension in 3 months. then things do change

A word we often use to describe that situation is CONVERSION. It is indeed a two step process ... first the conversion to O in Thailand and then the extension application.

[john1000]

These are different peoples interpretations and some opinions. Better to get a statement from the Thai authority. Unfortunately the web site sometimes is not always updated with any major changes.

[smedly]

The OP is getting a little confused

As already mentioned there is no retirement visa in Thailand - it is an extension of stay based on spouse or retirement

The Multiple type O in the UK is not a retirement visa either although the is now an age restriction on this type of visa

The closest thing you could describe as a retirement visa in the UK is an O-A

Now in saying all that - the only significant info in the OP is that Pattaya immigration are now refusing to convert to a single O type visa to allow an application for extension - this is something that may need to be clarified but is most likely bar stool hogwash

[smedly]

So you have been going to an embassy or consulate every year to get new visa. Or have you been going to immigration and applying for an extension of stay (it is not a visa).

There have been a couple of reports of Jomtien not allowing a change from a ED extension to retirement. Perhaps that is what you heard about. Those are the only reports I have seen. There have been reports of people getting their extensions just like they always have.

The 65 or over and on a OAP is only for getting a multiple entry non-o visa from one of the consulates in the UK. There are some people that have gotten single entry non-o visas that were under 65. The embassy still does OA visas for those 50 or over.

Thank you, you could well be correct on this. I will check my source and revert.

As far as I'm concerned, all my extensions have been made in Thailand, and I did say in my original post that I know it is not a visa.

I'm confused.... of course... what's the difference between a "multiple non-o visa" and an "OA visa"? and why should somebody wishing to live in Thailand on a retirement visa apply for one rather than the other?

A multiple non-o visa allows you only 90 days stay each entry. An OA visa allows you a 1 year stay each entry, and has greater certification requirements (income; police certificate; medical certificate).

Thanks. Well I'm guessing now, but maybe these guys held multiple non-o visas and they tried to convert them into one year retirement extensions and were refused, effectively being told to go back to the UK and apply for the full OA visa.

If this is so, I go back to my original hypothesis that new applicants with non-O visas can no longer apply for a NEW retirement 'visa' in Thailand . This means that the application process is effectively shut down for new retirees within Thailand and can only be done from their home embassy by applying for an O-A based on retirement.

I am not talking about extensions to retirement 'visas' previously issued which can be done in the usual way at the local immigration office without leaving the country.

My understanding was that what they were trying to do was previously possible and is no longer so. When I applied for my one year extension in Bangkok 12 years ago I held a non-B visa. Many of my friends held tourist visas and were able to convert them and get retirement extensions. Maybe all this is now closed for new applicants, including those holding ' non-O's'.

I will try to obtain more specific info.and report back.

will you stop calling it a retirement visa - there is no such a thing in Thailand and never has been

[Jingthing]

I think this has basically been resolved. Just a classic case of terminology confusion.

[Mobi]

A multiple non-o visa allows you only 90 days stay each entry. An OA visa allows you a 1 year stay each entry, and has greater certification requirements (income; police certificate; medical certificate).

Thanks. Well I'm guessing now, but maybe these guys held multiple non-o visas and they tried to convert them into one year retirement extensions and were refused, effectively being told to go back to the UK and apply for the full OA visa.

If this is so, I go back to my original hypothesis that new applicants with non-O visas can no longer apply for a NEW retirement 'visa' in Thailand . This means that the application process is effectively shut down for new retirees within Thailand and can only be done from their home embassy by applying for an O-A based on retirement.

I am not talking about extensions to retirement 'visas' previously issued which can be done in the usual way at the local immigration office without leaving the country.

My understanding was that what they were trying to do was previously possible and is no longer so. When I applied for my one year extension in Bangkok 12 years ago I held a non-B visa. Many of my friends held tourist visas and were able to convert them and get retirement extensions. Maybe all this is now closed for new applicants, including those holding ' non-O's'.

I will try to obtain more specific info.and report back.

Yes you should, I think you are still confused and confusing with your terminology.

Are you now claiming that you think that :

people who have just been issued a non-imm o visa, attempt for the first time to extend permission to stay on it for one year, on the grounds of retirement, are now being refused and told to go out of the country and get a non-Imm OA visa.

AND also: people who got non -Imm O visas many years ago and are on their fourth or fifth extension attempt are still being allowed to do it?

If so, this doesn't agree with your first post yet when you say the quote below you seem to be describing exactly the same thing as if you think they are different.

but maybe these guys held multiple non-o visas and they tried to convert them into one year retirement extensions and were refused, effectively being told to go back to the UK and apply for the full OA visa.

[...]

I am not talking about extensions to retirement 'visas' previously issued which can be done in the usual way at the local immigration office without leaving the country.

Can you please try to explain using the correct terminology ( ie extension, new non-imm O, new non-Imm OA) or it's really impossible to understand what you are on about!

Well all I can say is that you are confusing me with my allegedly confusing quotes. Us retirees are not always the brightest sparks in the drawer so please be patient. I'm not deliberately trying to confuse anyone.

Let me try one more time.

People who already have retirement extensions are not affected.

People who go down to immigration and request, for the first time ever, to convert their existing visas to a so-called retirement 'visa' or extension, (as I did, 12 years ago), are now being refused and are told to go back to their home country and apply for the retirement 'visa' there.

I am not sure what visas these people are holding but was told it was an 'O' visa - whatever that may mean. It may be a 'multiple Non-O', it may be an 'O-A' or it maybe some kind of 'Ed' visa. I have already said I will check back on this.

I apologise in advance if I'm not using the correct terminology. Not all of us are technical experts on Thai immigration terms, but surely that doesn't prevent me from asking what I thought was a fairly reasonable and comprehensible question. The fact remains that these people have been told to re-apply overseas, whereas previously they could have converted whatever visa they held into a 'retirement extension'.

Is there anyone out there who understands what I am saying?.......

And by the way... I didn't know it was such a crime to use the word 'Retirement visa' - half the country uses it, including immigration officers, so what' the big deal? We all know what I mean. Why such outrage?

And by by the way... I'm not in the habit of repeating barstool hogwash, as those who have read any of my 8,000 odd posts can testify to.

And by by by I never realised that by simply asking an innocent, albeit naive question would provoke such outrage and disdain. I thought that the reason d'etre for Thai Visa was to answer questions on Thai Visas.

Sadly, I suggest we close the thread and I will get my information elsewhere.