ISIS' reasons for enslaving women

[Thorgal]

ISIS Just Made a Promise to Enslave Your Daughters as Allowed by the Qur’an

http://madworldnews.com/isis-enslave-daughters/

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

Your media source reveals on their website :

"Mad World News is firmly devoted to bringing you the truth and the stories that the mainstream media ignores.

Together we can restore our constitutional republic to what the founding fathers envisioned and fight back against the liberal media."

http://madworldnews.com/about/

Do you expect objectivity concerning the original post from this ultra right winged media source ?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Thorgal

[Thorgal]

The westerners that are the most fervent defenders of Islam are also the kind of people that lead the defense of all minority groups. These people defend the rights of woman, gays, alternate religions, among other issues. This is to their credit, they are well meaning and considerate people.

The conundrum is it they do not see that the greatest current and historical threat to the groups they defend, is alive and multiplying across the planet. A very real threat which is destroying the rights and freedoms of people in a global insurgency. Just think of how many rights have been compromised in our own societies since 9/11. NSA anyone? That is nothing.

These well meaning people are caught in a logic loop that has given such a priority to tolerance, rights, and individual expression. That they have no choice but defend the rights of even those who wish to burn it all down.

They cannot get past the mantra "not all Muslims support terrorism". Everything grinds to a halt at that statement. The libertarian mind cannot breach this deeply held conviction. And therefore cannot comprehend any steps towards resolution.

There has to be a way to demonstrate that the evil factions of Islam are so terrifying and so pervasive that the moderates cannot defeat it. They are hostages and slaves already. Self preservation trumps idealism. It makes no difference how peaceful and what good global citizens they majority of Muslims are. They will not poke their heads up in sufficient numbers to gain momentum. Furthermore their belief system is rooted in fundamental intolerance, they cannot in good faith reject the words of the prophet. And although most of them have learned to function in a global community. The Jihadists have built upon the literal translations of this message of violence and divine entitlement, and created a cult of death. And they will not tolerate any resistance. They will kill you with extreme prejudice. ISIS is vivid demonstration that evil is a thing, and it does take control, and it does comes to kill, steal, and destroy.

If Islam is a body, then ISIS is Ebola, and this body is not only in serious danger, all the other bodies face the same threat. With a disease you can isolate the victim. With jihadists we need a new solution. And we really need the defenders of humanity to wake the hell up and get on board. We don't have to tolerate everything. We don't have to tolerate the intolerant. You think conservatives are your enemy. Give your head shake before it gets chopped off - live on video.

ISIS and Islam are now linked to Ebola...

Are ISIS and Islam also linked with my bad breakfast from this morning ?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Thorgal

[H1w4yR1da]

More than from any ultra left wing site but I guess only the ultra left would imagine the paragraph you quoted, while to most people would appear to be plain common sense, would confirm ultra right affiliations.

[chuckd]

ISIS Just Made a Promise to Enslave Your Daughters as Allowed by the Qur’an

http://madworldnews.com/isis-enslave-daughters/

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

Your media source reveals on their website :

"Mad World News is firmly devoted to bringing you the truth and the stories that the mainstream media ignores.

Together we can restore our constitutional republic to what the founding fathers envisioned and fight back against the liberal media."

http://madworldnews.com/about/

Do you expect objectivity concerning the original post from this ultra right winged media source ?

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

A quick Google search revealed 7,450 hits on that exact same sentence. Are all of them biased and, more importantly, are all or any of them lying about the sentence?

Attacking the messenger is questionable in most instances.

[simple1]

ISIS Just Made a Promise to Enslave Your Daughters as Allowed by the Qur’an

http://madworldnews.com/isis-enslave-daughters/

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

Your media source reveals on their website :

"Mad World News is firmly devoted to bringing you the truth and the stories that the mainstream media ignores.

Together we can restore our constitutional republic to what the founding fathers envisioned and fight back against the liberal media."

http://madworldnews.com/about/

Do you expect objectivity concerning the original post from this ultra right winged media source ?

It's a quote from a an audio file allegedly uploaded by ISIS spokesman Abu Muhammad al-Adnani and repeated in the IS magazine.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-magazine-dabiq-threatens-rome-crusaders-flying-islamic-state-flag-vatican-front-cover-1469712

[arjunadawn]

ISIS Just Made a Promise to Enslave Your Daughters as Allowed by the Qur’an

http://madworldnews.com/isis-enslave-daughters/

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

Your media source reveals on their website :

"Mad World News is firmly devoted to bringing you the truth and the stories that the mainstream media ignores.

Together we can restore our constitutional republic to what the founding fathers envisioned and fight back against the liberal media."

http://madworldnews.com/about/

Do you expect objectivity concerning the original post from this ultra right winged media source ?

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

A quick Google search revealed 7,450 hits on that exact same sentence. Are all of them biased and, more importantly, are all or any of them lying about the sentence?

Attacking the messenger is questionable in most instances.

Earlier in the thread a link was included reflecting muslims protesting IS scriptural and other authority for what they are doing. It was 25 pages long. This seems to be the same group from the UK (Does UK have a Jihad Problem?). Regardless, I went through the first 7 pages and what I found was a mix of red herriings, truths, and simple commentary that could only be designed for a western audience. In conclusion, it is nonsense. I attach it here for those who have read or perused the first document but I included the protests that many points demanded. I have little doubt that IS- al baghdaddi- laughed as much as I did reading this nonsense.

Ltr to IS.pdf

[arjunadawn]

ISIS Just Made a Promise to Enslave Your Daughters as Allowed by the Qur’an

http://madworldnews.com/isis-enslave-daughters/

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

Your media source reveals on their website :

"Mad World News is firmly devoted to bringing you the truth and the stories that the mainstream media ignores.

Together we can restore our constitutional republic to what the founding fathers envisioned and fight back against the liberal media."

http://madworldnews.com/about/

Do you expect objectivity concerning the original post from this ultra right winged media source ?

Wow! I have never even visited this site but any site that has as its Masthead "...restor[ing] our constitutional republic" can't be all that bad. And yet, you find in this declaration of purpose illegitimacy? Perhaps their effort sucks and they really are flamers, but gosh, if they are simply repugnant because of this masthead statement your own declaration of this point says far more. Cant truth be found in all types of sources, left and right, rather than singular source newsfeed? I think so.

[7by7]

Yet again, IS are being used by Islamaphobes as an excuseto demonise all of Islam.

Despite the fact that Muslim groups all over the world, from ultra conservative ones to liberal ones, have condemned IS and say that IS, their activities and their pronouncements are un Islamic.

Despite the fact that Muslim countries are involved in the fight against IS: United against Isis: Which countries are doing what?

IS are a terrorist group who do not speak for Islam.

[Steely Dan]

ISIS Just Made a Promise to Enslave Your Daughters as Allowed by the Qur’an

http://madworldnews.com/isis-enslave-daughters/

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

Your media source reveals on their website :

"Mad World News is firmly devoted to bringing you the truth and the stories that the mainstream media ignores.

Together we can restore our constitutional republic to what the founding fathers envisioned and fight back against the liberal media."

http://madworldnews.com/about/

Do you expect objectivity concerning the original post from this ultra right winged media source ?

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted."

A quick Google search revealed 7,450 hits on that exact same sentence. Are all of them biased and, more importantly, are all or any of them lying about the sentence?

Attacking the messenger is questionable in most instances.

Earlier in the thread a link was included reflecting muslims protesting IS scriptural and other authority for what they are doing. It was 25 pages long. This seems to be the same group from the UK (Does UK have a Jihad Problem?). Regardless, I went through the first 7 pages and what I found was a mix of red herriings, truths, and simple commentary that could only be designed for a western audience. In conclusion, it is nonsense. I attach it here for those who have read or perused the first document but I included the protests that many points demanded. I have little doubt that IS- al baghdaddi- laughed as much as I did reading this nonsense.

Let's draw a few threads together. Some liberals and taqiyya merchants are trying to float the proposition that ISIS are somehow following a perverted interpretation of Islam with their attitude to slavery, and no doubt to sundry other atrocities they commit as well. Then we have the assertion that the vast majority of Muslims reject their interpretation, which is presented to us as a priori fact.

The evidence all screams in the opposite direction. If an opinion poll, albeit with sketchy details about methodology finds 92% of Saudis believe ISIS to be following authentic Islam this is a big warning flag to ISIS being an aberration. Then we have the thousands of Western based Muslims traveling to Syria and Iraq to fight for ISIS. If the condemnation of ISIS on theological grounds held any weight at all why aren't even more Muslims traveling from Europe to fight against them? Why also don't the Muslim states supposedly joining the fight against ISIS not sending their troops off to great public acclaim and tick a tape processions? Indeed why we're smiling Turkish soldiers photographed recently with ISIS fighters, why do the Turks at this time bomb the PKK who are fighting ISIS and why doesn't Turkey with its military might send troops into Kobane to prevent the Kurds there being massacred by ISIS?

I conclude there is far more common ground between ISIS and major strands of Sunni Islam than we are being led to believe. Conflicts of interest viz the tenure of Arab regimes or the question of who should be Caliph are being dressed up as phony theological differences as a sugar coated pill for the West to swallow.

[JockPieandBeans]

IS are a terrorist group who do not speak for Islam.

They might be a terrorist group, but they are a terrorist group that are very good at quoting the Qu'ran

Islamic State’s audacity and effrontery toward women knows no bounds. In an article that appeared Sunday in Dabiq, the group’s English-language online publication, Islamic State militants crossed a last possible boundary of decency by citing the Quran as authority for the barbarism they have been practicing against women. Equally disturbing, Arab leaders and the ulama, the clerical leaders of Islam, have been silent in the face of this effrontery.

http://blogs.wsj.com...eaders-respond/

[arjunadawn]

Earlier in the thread a link was included reflecting muslims protesting IS scriptural and other authority for what they are doing. It was 25 pages long. This seems to be the same group from the UK (Does UK have a Jihad Problem?). Regardless, I went through the first 7 pages and what I found was a mix of red herriings, truths, and simple commentary that could only be designed for a western audience. In conclusion, it is nonsense. I attach it here for those who have read or perused the first document but I included the protests that many points demanded. I have little doubt that IS- al baghdaddi- laughed as much as I did reading this nonsense.

Let's draw a few threads together. Some liberals and taqiyya merchants are trying to float the proposition that ISIS are somehow following a perverted interpretation of Islam with their attitude to slavery, and no doubt to sundry other atrocities they commit as well. Then we have the assertion that the vast majority of Muslims reject their interpretation, which is presented to us as a priori fact.

The evidence all screams in the opposite direction. If an opinion poll, albeit with sketchy details about methodology finds 92% of Saudis believe ISIS to be following authentic Islam this is a big warning flag to ISIS being an aberration. Then we have the thousands of Western based Muslims traveling to Syria and Iraq to fight for ISIS. If the condemnation of ISIS on theological grounds held any weight at all why aren't even more Muslims traveling from Europe to fight against them? Why also don't the Muslim states supposedly joining the fight against ISIS not sending their troops off to great public acclaim and tick a tape processions? Indeed why we're smiling Turkish soldiers photographed recently with ISIS fighters, why do the Turks at this time bomb the PKK who are fighting ISIS and why doesn't Turkey with its military might send troops into Kobane to prevent the Kurds there being massacred by ISIS?

I conclude there is far more common ground between ISIS and major strands of Sunni Islam than we are being led to believe. Conflicts of interest viz the tenure of Arab regimes or the question of who should be Caliph are being dressed up as phony theological differences as a sugar coated pill for the West to swallow.

I agree totally. When, irrespective of protests and and declarations, every minutia of information supports a given position, then it is likely there is credibility in that position- in this case the foundational justification for IS actions. I attach IS Mag #4, see approx page 14, "The Revival of Slavery before The Hour" (The Hour infering the end of days eschatology in which the world aligns against Islam, Islam is persecuted, and the final battles leading up to Meggido have Islam triumphant). It is noteworthy that while defensive jihad is most certainly not the only type of jihad, as emphatically stated by the authors of the letter to ISIS, the IS is now referring to its actions as "defensive." Why? To enable it to appeal to even those on the moderate side of the fence, the audience of those who wrote the IS letter to al baghdaddi (See earlier Post). There are far more complicated mechanics going on here then east/west, muslim/not.

I cant help but feel those like SteelyDan and I (and others of course) are like those freed from Plato's Cave. After seeing what reality is really like we are rushing back into the cave declaring our findings, only to be met with incredulity that the shadows are not the form. In this parable it did not turn out well for those who were not freed from the cave as they remained forever slaves to appearances.

Note: Turkey, particularly now, has a keen interest in the sense that the restoration of the caliphate take place with them at the helm; ie., muslim brotherhood. Turkey's goal is eliminating separatist threats, not IS. While it wants IS defeated, not before a de facto recognition takes place that is remains.

[H1w4yR1da]

Islamaphobes

You keep on with this BS, don't you? Coming from a pro-Islamist, it's a term of endearment.

Despite the fact that Muslim groups all over the world, from ultra conservative ones to liberal ones, have condemned IS

'Liberal Muslim groups'?

Yeah, that's a good one!

IS are a terrorist group who do not speak for Islam.

I, and many others, beg to differ.

[KunMatt]

IS are a terrorist group who do not speak for Islam.

I, and many others, beg to differ.

Yeah, how is it that so many people of differing countries, cultures, languages, colours and so on, can all be brought together by just one common factor? If Islam is not the cause of terrorism then what else do all of these different people with otherwise different upbringings have in common?

The IS is a melting pot of people from all over the world and yet they all believe in the exact same medieval barbarities. How is that possible if Islam is such a peaceful religion? Are you saying that every one of them from each country has misinterpreted the Koran and they are all wrong? Or are they actually following what is written in the Koran, even if it is out of context?

And what kind of excuse is that anyway? "Ahh you see here, when the Koran says it is a Muslim's duty to decapitate all non-believers you actually need to read the sentence that comes before it to get the real context, totally changes the meaning. Not Islam's fault is any non-believers get their heads cut off because of this."

[KunMatt]

(Childish comments not worthy of a response deleted)

IS are a terrorist group who do not speak for Islam.

I, and many others, beg to differ.

Differ as much as you like; the facts show you to be wrong.

Even though you and others choose to ignore the facts which confound your prejudices.

Facts like how there is an Islamic genocide going on right now, like TODAY, and it is being done according to the scripture of the Koran? All of these crimes against humanity which the IS are boasting, about like slavery and raping women, are all being done as is stated and quoted from the Koran.

Are you contesting all of this?

[JockPieandBeans]

7x7

This is a quote from a current TV thread.

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysian police have arrested 13 people believed to have "links" with the Islamic State, a report said Wednesday, as concern grows over the extremist group's appeal in the moderate Muslim country.

The Star newspaper quoted national police chief Khalid Abu Bakar as saying the 13 Malaysians were arrested in a raid on a restaurant in a Kuala Lumpur suburb.

He added they bring the number of people arrested since April this year over suspected IS links to 36.

"We are constantly monitoring these kinds of activities. Militancy and terrorism have no place in this country," he was quoted saying.

As you are very keen on labelling IS as a terrorist group. Why do you think, it appears that their appeal is growing in a " Moderate Muslim " Country ?

[7by7]

KunMatt,

Only those who have not read any of my posts, ignore what I have written because it does not suit their prejudices or are too stupid to understand what I have said could ever accuse me of supporting IS in any way, shape or form.

Only those listed above could ever accuse me of denying that IS use the Koran as the justification for their actions.

Only those listed above could ever deny that the vast majority of Muslim leaders, scholars, ordinary Muslims have condemned IS, and similar terrorists, and stressed that IS have perverted Islam.

I am sure that the third option does not apply to you; so is it the first or the second?

[Steely Dan]

IS are a terrorist group who do not speak for Islam.

I, and many others, beg to differ.

Yeah, how is it that so many people of differing countries, cultures, languages, colours and so on, can all be brought together by just one common factor? If Islam is not the cause of terrorism then what else do all of these different people with otherwise different upbringings have in common?

The IS is a melting pot of people from all over the world and yet they all believe in the exact same medieval barbarities. How is that possible if Islam is such a peaceful religion? Are you saying that every one of them from each country has misinterpreted the Koran and they are all wrong? Or are they actually following what is written in the Koran, even if it is out of context?

And what kind of excuse is that anyway? "Ahh you see here, when the Koran says it is a Muslim's duty to decapitate all non-believers you actually need to read the sentence that comes before it to get the real context, totally changes the meaning. Not Islam's fault is any non-believers get their heads cut off because of this."

It's funny indeed how some liberals are always ready to take the most charitable interpretation of Islam even when all the evidence suggests they are wrong, yet on the other hand are only too willing to take an out of context quote from Sam Harris and claim he is a genocidal maniac. However in the real world Sam Harris and other so called Islamophobes are advocates of human rights whilst Islam is overwhelmingly featured in wars, genocides, slavery etc, yet incredibly some liberals persist in batting for the other side.

[7by7]

7x7

This is a quote from a current TV thread.

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysian police have arrested 13 people believed to have "links" with the Islamic State, a report said Wednesday, as concern grows over the extremist group's appeal in the moderate Muslim country.

The Star newspaper quoted national police chief Khalid Abu Bakar as saying the 13 Malaysians were arrested in a raid on a restaurant in a Kuala Lumpur suburb.

He added they bring the number of people arrested since April this year over suspected IS links to 36.

"We are constantly monitoring these kinds of activities. Militancy and terrorism have no place in this country," he was quoted saying.

As you are very keen on labelling IS as a terrorist group. Why do you think, it appears that their appeal is growing in a " Moderate Muslim " Country ?

Unfortunately terrorist groups have always attracted the deluded; look at the massive support the IRA had in the USA, for example.

There are many reasons for this; one being ignorance of what the terrorist group actually stands for and their methods; another being a feeling of being persecuted.

As I have said before; the more ignorant non Muslims blame all Muslims for the atrocities of extremists like IS, the more ordinary Muslims are subject to hate and prejudice, then the more certain elements in the Muslim world, and in Muslim communities in non Muslim countries in particular, will use this to turn Muslims, and young Muslims in particular, towards the extremists.

"Look how the Infidel hate you," they say. "Look how they treat you and discriminate against you. Join us and we will make you proud; join us and we will stop the discrimination. Join us and we will give you your rightful place in the world."

Muslim leaders and others are trying to stop this from happening; with some success.

What is said on this forum matters not in the real world outside. But when the sentiments and reactions and proposed actions of certain members are expressed and acted upon in the real world, all those people are doing is swelling the ranks of the militants and extremists.

Which is probably what they want; because they can then turn round and say "We told you so!"

[KunMatt]

KunMatt,

Only those who have not read any of my posts, ignore what I have written because it does not suit their prejudices or are too stupid to understand what I have said could ever accuse me of supporting IS in any way, shape or form.

Only those listed above could ever accuse me of denying that IS use the Koran as the justification for their actions.

Only those listed above could ever deny that the vast majority of Muslim leaders, scholars, ordinary Muslims have condemned IS, and similar terrorists, and stressed that IS have perverted Islam.

I am sure that the third option does not apply to you; so is it the first or the second?

OK, so this is a typical diversion tactic from you to not actually address anyone's points that they raised, but I will address each of yours.

1. I never even once said you were supporting the IS. I think the consensus is that you are pro-Islamist, not pro-terrorist.

2. Again, not said by me.

3. You keep repeating this same mantra about the "vast majority" of moderate Muslims but it is not true. If the stats are correct there should be about 1 billion moderate Muslims globally. Where is the fight by them against the atrocities done in the name of their beloved religion? They greatly outnumber the radicals so why do they do nothing and why have they done nothing for decades to stop the ongoing Islamic terrorism? How is it that the voice of 20% of all Muslims is so well heard but nothing is ever heard from the moderates? It's because they basically all want the same thing, they want Shariah law to be global and all they have to do to achieve it is ignore the crimes against humanity that are being done and eventually they will have what they want.

Also, there has only been 1 link provided in this thread showing Muslims leaders opposing the IS, and it was not posted by you, and it has just been called into question.

[JockPieandBeans]

Unfortunately terrorist groups have always attracted the deluded; look at the massive support the IRA had in the USA, for example.

There are many reasons for this; one being ignorance of what the terrorist group actually stands for and their methods; another being a feeling of being persecuted.

As I have said before; the more ignorant non Muslims blame all Muslims for the atrocities of extremists like IS, the more ordinary Muslims are subject to hate and prejudice, then the more certain elements in the Muslim world, and in Muslim communities in non Muslim countries in particular, will use this to turn Muslims, and young Muslims in particular, towards the extremists.

"Look how the Infidel hate you," they say. "Look how they treat you and discriminate against you. Join us and we will make you proud; join us and we will stop the discrimination. Join us and we will give you your rightful place in the world."

Muslim leaders and others are trying to stop this from happening; with some success.

What is said on this forum matters not in the real world outside. But when the sentiments and reactions and proposed actions of certain members are expressed and acted upon in the real world, all those people are doing is swelling the ranks of the militants and extremists.

Which is probably what they want; because they can then turn round and say "We told you so!"

Malaysia has been held up, by posters on this forum as a Muslim model of multiculturalism.

I never asked for a breakdown of the ideology of the IRA.

I asked why, it was being reported, that the appeal of IS, who are not a terrorist group, they are a group of Islamist nutjobs, is growing in what is considered to be a " Moderate Muslim " Country.

[7by7]

KunMatt, You seem to have forgotten what you said; so a reminder

Facts like how there is an Islamic genocide going on right now, like TODAY, and it is being done according to the scripture of the Koran? All of these crimes against humanity which the IS are boasting, about like slavery and raping women, are all being done as is stated and quoted from the Koran.

Are you contesting all of this?

You asked me a direct question; I answered it.

That you now say my answer is a "typical diversion tactic from you" and that I did "not actually address anyone's points that they raised" merely shows that you don't like the answers I gave!

Edit:

As does your post above!

Edited October 15, 2014 by 7by7

[arjunadawn]

7x7

This is a quote from a current TV thread.

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysian police have arrested 13 people believed to have "links" with the Islamic State, a report said Wednesday, as concern grows over the extremist group's appeal in the moderate Muslim country.

The Star newspaper quoted national police chief Khalid Abu Bakar as saying the 13 Malaysians were arrested in a raid on a restaurant in a Kuala Lumpur suburb.

He added they bring the number of people arrested since April this year over suspected IS links to 36.

"We are constantly monitoring these kinds of activities. Militancy and terrorism have no place in this country," he was quoted saying.

As you are very keen on labelling IS as a terrorist group. Why do you think, it appears that their appeal is growing in a " Moderate Muslim " Country ?

Besides the fact that daily inculcaton of islamic teachings throughout the world sound exactly like the ISIS rationales for their actions, their own politicians have glorified IS actions in the Mid east. They may backpeddle under pressure, but the islamic world, for the most part, is eagerly waiting to see if a caliph will stick it out, and fufill a billion + desires. http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/2014/06/25/must-pm-glorify-isis-terrorists/

[KunMatt]

KunMatt, You seem to have forgotten what you said; so a reminder

Facts like how there is an Islamic genocide going on right now, like TODAY, and it is being done according to the scripture of the Koran? All of these crimes against humanity which the IS are boasting, about like slavery and raping women, are all being done as is stated and quoted from the Koran.

Are you contesting all of this?

You asked me a direct question; I answered it.

That you now say my answer is a "typical diversion tactic from you" and that I did "not actually address anyone's points that they raised" merely shows that you don't like the answers I gave!

Edit:

As does your post above!

I asked the question because you said;

IS are a terrorist group who do not speak for Islam.

So what do the IS represent if not Islam? They are Muslims who use the Koran as scripture for their beliefs, they call themselves Muslims and they follow the pillars of Islam. Because you are uncomfortable with the realities of what they want you want to label them as non - Muslims?

How do you know that the IS are not the true Muslims following the Koran properly as intended and that the moderate Muslims are not true Muslims because they do not follow Islam fundamentally?

[arjunadawn]

KunMatt, You seem to have forgotten what you said; so a reminder

Facts like how there is an Islamic genocide going on right now, like TODAY, and it is being done according to the scripture of the Koran? All of these crimes against humanity which the IS are boasting, about like slavery and raping women, are all being done as is stated and quoted from the Koran.

Are you contesting all of this?

You asked me a direct question; I answered it.

That you now say my answer is a "typical diversion tactic from you" and that I did "not actually address anyone's points that they raised" merely shows that you don't like the answers I gave!

Edit:

As does your post above!

I asked the question because you said;

IS are a terrorist group who do not speak for Islam.

So what do the IS represent if not Islam? They are Muslims who use the Koran as scripture for their beliefs, they call themselves Muslims and they follow the pillars of Islam. Because you are uncomfortable with the realities of what they want you want to label them as non - Muslims?

How do you know that the IS are not the true Muslims following the Koran properly as intended and that the moderate Muslims are not true Muslims because they do not follow Islam fundamentally?

I think its clear what my position is on this, but I want to thank you for saying it too. You will rarely find opponents of IS citing valid koranic and hadith to repudiate IS. In this forum and earlier poster had included a rebuke to IS from, I suppose, respected author. The problem was, even I was able to wade through a great deal of it rebutting its points. Many rebukes to IS were actually true points from Islamic law, but unrelated to the issue, such as the requirement that fatwas consider all the merits of an issue and be issued by an islamic scholar, which IS has. Other points in this singular example evidenced the intended audience being the west, not IS. As a matter of fact, had it been validly created as a public rebuke to ISIS it would have been written in Arabic, and we would have only learned of it in translation, with the accompanying paranthetical Arabic remaining; that is a scholarly rebuke- there have been none throughout the world as IS more or less cites valid scripture.

Note: There are points that IS does cite authority for acts for which they are clearly stretching reality, I concur. But this is not the points made in the public rebuke be "moderate muslims." One example, IMO, of IS flatly manipulating scripture is its approach to the Yazidis. For all purposes these are people of the book, according to Islam. However, these people, who predate Islam by a long shot, believe that the archangel (lucifer to the christians) did repent and finally bow to Adam, as pentence to god. They call this angel Iblis, which is for the most part an Arabic name, given the area to which they live and syncretism, this is expected. However, in Islam Iblis is the devil surely, and no peace was ever made with Al Lah. But they are children of the book nevertheless. Yet IS chooses to manipulate scripture to overlook this sad reality in furtherance of jihad conquest for their men. People such as this are not given the option to pay the jizya- tax, because they are not children of the book. The only option is dead of conversion.

So, while I take issue with "moderate" muslims really saying anything meaningful= they are not- it is also true that while IS is for the most part true to scripture, they are really manipulating it to suit their needs.

[H1w4yR1da]

Only those listed above could ever deny that the vast majority of Muslim leaders, scholars, ordinary Muslims have condemned IS, and similar terrorists, and stressed that IS have perverted Islam.

The vast majority of ordinary Muslims have condemned IS?

Really?

I must have missed that on BBC.

Apparently the 'vast majorty' of 1.6 billion muslims have all condemned IS?

When did they all do that exactly? Did they all get together in a meeting issue a press release? Or was it an online petition?

I eagerly await links to this momentous occasion.

Please give your pro-Islamist hyperbole BS a rest.

Edited October 15, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[KunMatt]

Only those listed above could ever deny that the vast majority of Muslim leaders, scholars, ordinary Muslims have condemned IS, and similar terrorists, and stressed that IS have perverted Islam.

The vast majority of ordinary Muslims have condemned IS?

Really?

I must have missed that on BBC.

Apparently the 'vast majorty' of 1.6 billion muslims have all condemned IS?

When did they all do that exactly? Did they all get together in a meeting issue a press release? Or was it an online petition?

I eagerly await links to this momentous occasion.

Please give your pro-Islamist hyperbole BS a rest.

It was easy to miss. About 3 Muslim scholars got together and wrote a sketchy letter to the IS to appease all of the Islamophobes. These 3 Muslims are "the vast majority of the Muslims in the world" apparently. Are you appeased?

Strange how I NEVER see any "moderate Muslims" condemning any Islamic terrorists on any social media or websites. You would think that there would be many "anti Islamic-terrorist" websites run by all of these "moderate Muslims" with a forum for 1 billion "moderate Muslims" to come and defend their religion. I haven't seen any, have you? All I ever see on social media is "moderate Muslims" defending the cause of radicals or saying that it is all lies by the media.

[H1w4yR1da]

Yeah, and, as in the UK, comparing them to the EDL.

[canuckamuck]

The westerners that are the most fervent defenders of Islam are also the kind of people that lead the defense of all minority groups. These people defend the rights of woman, gays, alternate religions, among other issues. This is to their credit, they are well meaning and considerate people.

The conundrum is it they do not see that the greatest current and historical threat to the groups they defend, is alive and multiplying across the planet. A very real threat which is destroying the rights and freedoms of people in a global insurgency. Just think of how many rights have been compromised in our own societies since 9/11. NSA anyone? That is nothing.

These well meaning people are caught in a logic loop that has given such a priority to tolerance, rights, and individual expression. That they have no choice but defend the rights of even those who wish to burn it all down.

They cannot get past the mantra "not all Muslims support terrorism". Everything grinds to a halt at that statement. The libertarian mind cannot breach this deeply held conviction. And therefore cannot comprehend any steps towards resolution.

There has to be a way to demonstrate that the evil factions of Islam are so terrifying and so pervasive that the moderates cannot defeat it. They are hostages and slaves already. Self preservation trumps idealism. It makes no difference how peaceful and what good global citizens they majority of Muslims are. They will not poke their heads up in sufficient numbers to gain momentum. Furthermore their belief system is rooted in fundamental intolerance, they cannot in good faith reject the words of the prophet. And although most of them have learned to function in a global community. The Jihadists have built upon the literal translations of this message of violence and divine entitlement, and created a cult of death. And they will not tolerate any resistance. They will kill you with extreme prejudice. ISIS is vivid demonstration that evil is a thing, and it does take control, and it does comes to kill, steal, and destroy.

If Islam is a body, then ISIS is Ebola, and this body is not only in serious danger, all the other bodies face the same threat. With a disease you can isolate the victim. With jihadists we need a new solution. And we really need the defenders of humanity to wake the hell up and get on board. We don't have to tolerate everything. We don't have to tolerate the intolerant. You think conservatives are your enemy. Give your head shake before it gets chopped off - live on video.

ISIS and Islam are now linked to Ebola...

Are ISIS and Islam also linked with my bad breakfast from this morning ?

Yes that was my main point.

Good that you have no argument with with the rest of it

For the record I meant to say Jihadists were ebola in my metaphor)

[simple1]

7x7

This is a quote from a current TV thread.

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysian police have arrested 13 people believed to have "links" with the Islamic State, a report said Wednesday, as concern grows over the extremist group's appeal in the moderate Muslim country.

The Star newspaper quoted national police chief Khalid Abu Bakar as saying the 13 Malaysians were arrested in a raid on a restaurant in a Kuala Lumpur suburb.

He added they bring the number of people arrested since April this year over suspected IS links to 36.

"We are constantly monitoring these kinds of activities. Militancy and terrorism have no place in this country," he was quoted saying.

As you are very keen on labelling IS as a terrorist group. Why do you think, it appears that their appeal is growing in a " Moderate Muslim " Country ?

Besides the fact that daily inculcaton of islamic teachings throughout the world sound exactly like the ISIS rationales for their actions, their own politicians have glorified IS actions in the Mid east. They may backpeddle under pressure, but the islamic world, for the most part, is eagerly waiting to see if a caliph will stick it out, and fufill a billion + desires. http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/2014/06/25/must-pm-glorify-isis-terrorists/

You may like to read the article below.

http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/asia-pacific/70320-malaysia-najib-unga-speech

[arjunadawn]

7x7

This is a quote from a current TV thread.

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysian police have arrested 13 people believed to have "links" with the Islamic State, a report said Wednesday, as concern grows over the extremist group's appeal in the moderate Muslim country.

The Star newspaper quoted national police chief Khalid Abu Bakar as saying the 13 Malaysians were arrested in a raid on a restaurant in a Kuala Lumpur suburb.

He added they bring the number of people arrested since April this year over suspected IS links to 36.

"We are constantly monitoring these kinds of activities. Militancy and terrorism have no place in this country," he was quoted saying.

As you are very keen on labelling IS as a terrorist group. Why do you think, it appears that their appeal is growing in a " Moderate Muslim " Country ?

Besides the fact that daily inculcaton of islamic teachings throughout the world sound exactly like the ISIS rationales for their actions, their own politicians have glorified IS actions in the Mid east. They may backpeddle under pressure, but the islamic world, for the most part, is eagerly waiting to see if a caliph will stick it out, and fufill a billion + desires. http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/2014/06/25/must-pm-glorify-isis-terrorists/

You may like to read the article below.

http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/asia-pacific/70320-malaysia-najib-unga-speech

Yes, this is the backpeddling I refered to. Genuine or not, with things such as this, only the comments in support of IS impact the population most vulernable to the IS message (people hear what they want to hear). It is good this was retracted, but the audience whom his first comments resonated with may not likely hear the later retraction; but your right. I was only addressing how the "appeal" in a moderate country might also take root.

Edited October 15, 2014 by arjunadawn