ISIS' reasons for enslaving women

[KunMatt]

"The website itself has an agenda" should not be something you need to defend, or excuse. Every single web site in the world has an agenda; every single one. Indeed, if the agenda is a perspective on islam contrary to popular impression, or contrary to apology, this does not mean it is not objective. I review this website constantly and when you realize the majority or links link to various publications throughout the planet earth, you realize the only agenda is a clearinghouse collating data. Even if this site were rabid, which it is not, it still offers valuable access to shocking data.

From desiring shar'ia, to approving suicide bombings, to supporting jihad, etc., the numbers are well above 500,000,000, from polls taken over the past ten years throughout much of the islamic world, of those qualified for the label "radical."

Yeah I know and you know that if I didn't put that little disclaimer at the top then my whole post would've been disregarded on that basis! Edited October 19, 2014 by KunMatt

[simple1]

"if radical Muslims didn't make up hundreds of millions of terrorist from all countries in the world who are currently participated in an Islamic crusade"

From the US State Department, not known for under estimation, as of 2012, even with uprounding approx 200,000 members of known Islamic terrorist organisations. Allowing for a dramatic increase with the rise of Islamic State, let's guesstimate 300,000.

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2012/209989.htm

A review of the numbers at:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140506/14033627137/how-many-terrorists-are-there-not-as-many-as-you-might-think.shtml

Got any content that empirically refutes the above?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

I know the website itself has an agenda but they have a list of links to reputable sources who point out the percentage of Muslims who support radicals. It seems to range from 10% to 50% of Muslims worldwide depending on region, so let's just go with the figure of 20% I've always been using in this thread. There are between 1.2 to 1.8 billion Muslims globally, let's use the lowest figure again, so 20% of 1.2 billion Muslims = 240 million Muslims who are radical Muslims and that is the most conservative figure, I believe that it would be more like 40% to 60% of Muslims are in support of offensive Jihad. Even in the UK 25% of British Muslims supported the 7/7 bombings which killed 52 innocent civilians who were just going about their daily life, so in a civilised Western country 25% of Muslims supported offensive Jihad against Brits, and that was nearly 10 years ago, we have had a lot more radicalising and division since then.

"The website itself has an agenda" should not be something you need to defend, or excuse. Every single web site in the world has an agenda; every single one. Indeed, if the agenda is a perspective on islam contrary to popular impression, or contrary to apology, this does not mean it is not objective. I review this website constantly and when you realize the majority or links link to various publications throughout the planet earth, you realize the only agenda is a clearinghouse collating data. Even if this site were rabid, which it is not, it still offers valuable access to shocking data.

From desiring shar'ia, to approving suicide bombings, to supporting jihad, etc., the numbers are well above 500,000,000, from polls taken over the past ten years throughout much of the islamic world, of those qualified for the label "radical."

Let me assume the people putting together the polls would be contacting, say, the 20 - 60 year old demographic. What you are really saying nearly all Muslims polled support the POVs stated above. All I have to say that with the level of support you propose as fact, 'they' are spectacularly unsuccessful in their goals.

I assume you are aware that with the polls follow up drill down analysis, as an example, Sharia Law, when clarifying if the people polled actually approve or even understand the conservative aspects of Sharia Law such as stoning for adultery the answer of a large majority is 'No'.

Out of curiosity do you broadly concur or disagree with the indicative stats provided by US State Department as of 2012?

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2012/209989.htm

Edited October 19, 2014 by simple1

[KunMatt]

Let me assume the people putting together the polls would be contacting, say, the 20 - 60 year old demographic. What you are really saying nearly all Muslims polled support the POVs stated above. All I have to say that with the level of support you propose as fact, 'they' are spectacularly unsuccessful in their goals.

I assume you are aware that with the polls follow up drill down analysis, as an example, Sharia Law, when clarifying if the people polled actually approve or even understand the conservative aspects of Sharia Law such as stoning for adultery the answer of a large majority is 'No'.

Out of curiosity do you broadly concur or disagree with the indicative stats provided by US State Department as of 2012?

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2012/209989.htm

I'm going to assume that your assumption is wrong given the current situation in the UK in all the examples I have given so far in this thread.

I'm sure in the 1930s there were people like you downplaying the real threat of the Nazis, calling people like me anti-nazi, saying to just wait and see what their Nazi intentions are. I hope our children don't regret your position on all of this.

[7by7]

40% of British Muslims want Sharia law for the UK and the birth rate of UK Muslims is double that of non-Mulsims http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3971041.ece

It doesn't take much to realise what the future holds for my country, it's probably already too late to stop what has already been put into motion.

Maybe you should have read the headline of that article :Rise in Muslim birthrate as families ‘feel British’

Feel British; not want to take over Britain and turn it into a Muslim caliphate!

The article is about the possibility of practising Muslims outnumbering the number of practising Christians; not about Muslims becoming the majority in the UK. With a current Muslim population of 2.6 million out of a total of 64.1 million there will have to be a lot of breeding by Muslims and lack of same by non Muslims for Muslims to to reach the majority!

Also the increase in immigration from Eastern Europe and West Africa, most of whom are practising Christians, means that Muslims outnumbering Christians will take a lot longer than that article surmises; if it happens at all.

You only have to look at the number of new churches spring up all over the place, S.E. London for example, to see that is true.

No mention of wanting sharia law in that article.

That figure came from this Sunday Telegraph poll in 2006. A poll which asked 500 people.

That's right; just 500 out of a Muslim population of 2.6 million.

Hardly representative.

A form of Sharia law does already exist in the UK.

It is used for arbitration in civil disputes in Sharia courts in exactly the same way that Jewish Beth Din have been for over 100 years.

The decisions of both Sharia courts and Beth Din are not legally binding and can be legally challenged in the actual courts.

As for your video; the short introduction to a longer programme by a 'journalist' well known for being useless; you should have seen her programme on Thailand, as I had the misfortune to do.

However, to deny that there are radical Muslims in the UK would be simply burying one's head in the sand.

But demonising all British Muslims because of the activities of a small minority will only add to the problem and do nothing to solve it.

I have already posted links to the efforts of British Muslim leaders and ordinary Muslims to combat radicalisation; but these have been ignored or dismissed as lies by the Islamaphobes here.

Although Orwell was, of course, referring to the leaders of Soviet Union and Western capitalists I am reminded of the closing words of Animal Farm. The same words could be used to describe the rantings of Islamist extremists and Islamaphobes.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

Edited October 19, 2014 by 7by7

[KunMatt]

40% of British Muslims want Sharia law for the UK and the birth rate of UK Muslims is double that of non-Mulsims http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3971041.ece

It doesn't take much to realise what the future holds for my country, it's probably already too late to stop what has already been put into motion.

Maybe you should have read the headline of that article :Rise in Muslim birthrate as families ‘feel British’

Feel British; not want to take over Britain and turn it into a Muslim caliphate!

The article is about the possibility of practising Muslims outnumbering the number of practising Christians; not about Muslims becoming the majority in the UK. With a current Muslim population of 2.6 million out of a total of 64.1 million there will have to be a lot of breeding by Muslims and lack of same for Muslims to to reach the majority!

Also the increase in immigration from Eastern Europe and West Africa, most of whom are practising Christians, means that Muslims outnumbering Christians will take a lot longer than that article surmises; if it happens at all.

No mention of wanting sharia law in that article.

That figure came from this Sunday Telegraph poll in 2006. A poll which asked 500 people.

That's right; just 500 out of a Muslim population of 2.6 million.

Hardly representative.

A form of Sharia law does already exist in the UK.

It is used for arbitration in civil disputes in Sharia courts in exactly the same way that Jewish Beth Din have been for over 100 years.

The decisions of both Sharia courts and Beth Din are not legally binding and can be legally challenged in the actual courts.

As for your video; the short introduction to a longer programme by a 'journalist' well known for being useless; you should have seen her programme on Thailand, as I had the misfortune to do.

However, to deny that there are radical Muslims in the UK would be simply burying one's head in the sand.

But demonising all British Muslims because of the activities of a small minority will only add to the problem and do nothing to solve it.

I have already posted links to the efforts of British Muslim leaders and ordinary Muslims to combat radicalisation; but these have been ignored or dismissed as lies by the Islamaphobes here.

Although Orwell was, of course, referring to the leaders of Soviet Union and Western capitalists I am reminded of the closing words of Animal Farm. The same words could be used to describe the rantings of Islamist extremists and Islamaphobes.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

Skim read just to see that you yet again pick and choose what to reply to. Not going to waste any more time replying to you with questions you will only ignore because you know answering them would ruin your Islamic apologetic agenda.

[chuckd]

Simple 1:

May I interject a thought or two?

There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world.

If only one percent of them are radical Islamists, that is an army of 16 million.

If one tenth of one percent are radical Islamists, that is an army of 1.6 million.

If one hundredth of one percent of them are radical Islamists, that is an army of 160,000.

Whichever count you might decide on still leaves us with a very formidable enemy, dedicated to the destruction of the western world.

[KunMatt]

Simple 1:

May I interject a thought or two?

There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world.

If only one percent of them are radical Islamists, that is an army of 16 million.

If one tenth of one percent are radical Islamists, that is an army of 1.6 million.

If one hundredth of one percent of them are radical Islamists, that is an army of 160,000.

Whichever count you might decide on still leaves us with a very formidable enemy, dedicated to the destruction of the western world.

In countries which are already close to 100% Muslim the percentage will be higher, in the UK 25% of Muslims supported the 7/7 bombings in London. How is that possible? How is it possible that British born, raised and educated Muslims go to the IS to decapitate hostages and enslave and rape women, what is the one and only factor here which unites all of the people in the IS? It's that fun loving, tolerate, modern thinking, want to be a part of your community and your best friend, Islam.

[7by7]

40% of British Muslims want Sharia law for the UK and the birth rate of UK Muslims is double that of non-Mulsims http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3971041.ece

It doesn't take much to realise what the future holds for my country, it's probably already too late to stop what has already been put into motion.

Maybe you should have read the headline of that article :Rise in Muslim birthrate as families ‘feel British’

Feel British; not want to take over Britain and turn it into a Muslim caliphate!

The article is about the possibility of practising Muslims outnumbering the number of practising Christians; not about Muslims becoming the majority in the UK. With a current Muslim population of 2.6 million out of a total of 64.1 million there will have to be a lot of breeding by Muslims and lack of same for Muslims to to reach the majority!

Also the increase in immigration from Eastern Europe and West Africa, most of whom are practising Christians, means that Muslims outnumbering Christians will take a lot longer than that article surmises; if it happens at all.

No mention of wanting sharia law in that article.

That figure came from this Sunday Telegraph poll in 2006. A poll which asked 500 people.

That's right; just 500 out of a Muslim population of 2.6 million.

Hardly representative.

A form of Sharia law does already exist in the UK.

It is used for arbitration in civil disputes in Sharia courts in exactly the same way that Jewish Beth Din have been for over 100 years.

The decisions of both Sharia courts and Beth Din are not legally binding and can be legally challenged in the actual courts.

As for your video; the short introduction to a longer programme by a 'journalist' well known for being useless; you should have seen her programme on Thailand, as I had the misfortune to do.

However, to deny that there are radical Muslims in the UK would be simply burying one's head in the sand.

But demonising all British Muslims because of the activities of a small minority will only add to the problem and do nothing to solve it.

I have already posted links to the efforts of British Muslim leaders and ordinary Muslims to combat radicalisation; but these have been ignored or dismissed as lies by the Islamaphobes here.

Although Orwell was, of course, referring to the leaders of Soviet Union and Western capitalists I am reminded of the closing words of Animal Farm. The same words could be used to describe the rantings of Islamist extremists and Islamaphobes.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

Skim read just to see that you yet again pick and choose what to reply to. Not going to waste any more time replying to you with questions you will only ignore because you know answering them would ruin your Islamic apologetic agenda.

Translation:

I have no response to what you have posted; so I'll belittle your post.

[KunMatt]

40% of British Muslims want Sharia law for the UK and the birth rate of UK Muslims is double that of non-Mulsims http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3971041.ece

It doesn't take much to realise what the future holds for my country, it's probably already too late to stop what has already been put into motion.

Maybe you should have read the headline of that article :Rise in Muslim birthrate as families ‘feel British’

Feel British; not want to take over Britain and turn it into a Muslim caliphate!

The article is about the possibility of practising Muslims outnumbering the number of practising Christians; not about Muslims becoming the majority in the UK. With a current Muslim population of 2.6 million out of a total of 64.1 million there will have to be a lot of breeding by Muslims and lack of same for Muslims to to reach the majority!

Also the increase in immigration from Eastern Europe and West Africa, most of whom are practising Christians, means that Muslims outnumbering Christians will take a lot longer than that article surmises; if it happens at all.

No mention of wanting sharia law in that article.

That figure came from this Sunday Telegraph poll in 2006. A poll which asked 500 people.

That's right; just 500 out of a Muslim population of 2.6 million.

Hardly representative.

A form of Sharia law does already exist in the UK.

It is used for arbitration in civil disputes in Sharia courts in exactly the same way that Jewish Beth Din have been for over 100 years.

The decisions of both Sharia courts and Beth Din are not legally binding and can be legally challenged in the actual courts.

As for your video; the short introduction to a longer programme by a 'journalist' well known for being useless; you should have seen her programme on Thailand, as I had the misfortune to do.

However, to deny that there are radical Muslims in the UK would be simply burying one's head in the sand.

But demonising all British Muslims because of the activities of a small minority will only add to the problem and do nothing to solve it.

I have already posted links to the efforts of British Muslim leaders and ordinary Muslims to combat radicalisation; but these have been ignored or dismissed as lies by the Islamaphobes here.

Although Orwell was, of course, referring to the leaders of Soviet Union and Western capitalists I am reminded of the closing words of Animal Farm. The same words could be used to describe the rantings of Islamist extremists and Islamaphobes.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

Skim read just to see that you yet again pick and choose what to reply to. Not going to waste any more time replying to you with questions you will only ignore because you know answering them would ruin your Islamic apologetic agenda.

Translation:

I have no response to what you have posted; so I'll belittle your post.

Translation not needed. I clearly stated I have replied to you many times in this thread with many questions and statements before and you totally ignored them, but you pick one point and write and essay on it and totally ignore everything else I said so it's just a waste of my time and energy.

[7by7]

Simple 1:

May I interject a thought or two?

There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world.

If only one percent of them are radical Islamists, that is an army of 16 million.

If one tenth of one percent are radical Islamists, that is an army of 1.6 million.

If one hundredth of one percent of them are radical Islamists, that is an army of 160,000.

Whichever count you might decide on still leaves us with a very formidable enemy, dedicated to the destruction of the western world.

Which is exactly what groups such as ISIS want you to believe.

That way you demonise and discriminate against all Muslims, thus recruiting more to their cause.

Thank God the Western governments don't agree with you.

The enemy is ISIS and similar groups; not Islam.

[KunMatt]

The enemy is ISIS and similar groups

.....which are operating under Sharia law and abiding by Islamic law.

It's 1930 and you are telling us all not to worry about the Nazis because you believe them when they say they are just here to be your friend.

[7by7]

(Some quotes removed to comply with forum software)

Skim read just to see that you (7by7) yet again pick and choose what to reply to. Not going to waste any more time replying to you with questions you will only ignore because you know answering them would ruin your Islamic apologetic agenda.

Translation:

I have no response to what you have posted; so I'll belittle your post.

Translation not needed. I clearly stated I have replied to you many times in this thread with many questions and statements before and you totally ignored them, but you pick one point and write and essay on it and totally ignore everything else I said so it's just a waste of my time and energy.

If I have not responded to points you have raised or questions you have asked it is because I have already done so when others have raised those same points or asked those same questions or others have provided responses and answers to them with which I agree, and indicated that agreement via the 'like' button.

However, the post of yours in question raised three points:

• Muslim birth rate in UK; dealt with in what you call my essay.
• Video; dealt with in what you call my essay.
• Sharia law in UK; dealt with in what you call my essay.

Three point raised by you; three points responded to by me.

So what did I ignore?

[7by7]

The enemy is ISIS and similar groups

.....which are operating under Sharia law and abiding by Islamic law.

Which Muslim leaders and scholars from all over the world have denounced; even radical ones!

But you prefer to believe the terrorists, not the majority. Why?

It's 1930 and you are telling us all not to worry about the Nazis because you believe them when they say they are just here to be your friend.

Where have I, or anyone here, denied that Islamic extremism is a problem which needs to be solved?

Where have I, or anyone here, said that ISIS, other terrorists and Muslim extremists are not a problem; a major problem, which needs to be dealt with?

Where have I, or anyone here, condemned the action being taken against ISIS by the coalition; which includes, in case you haven't noticed, Muslim countries?

Where have I, or anyone here, defended extremist Muslim hate preachers in the UK, or anywhere else?

The difference between you and I is that I can tell the difference between the extremists, the hate preachers, the terrorists and the vast, vast majority of ordinary Muslims who are none of these things; you can't.

[transam]

Simple 1:

May I interject a thought or two?

There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world.

If only one percent of them are radical Islamists, that is an army of 16 million.

If one tenth of one percent are radical Islamists, that is an army of 1.6 million.

If one hundredth of one percent of them are radical Islamists, that is an army of 160,000.

Whichever count you might decide on still leaves us with a very formidable enemy, dedicated to the destruction of the western world.

Which is exactly what groups such as ISIS want you to believe.

That way you demonise and discriminate against all Muslims, thus recruiting more to their cause.

Thank God the Western governments don't agree with you.

The enemy is ISIS and similar groups; not Islam.

You reckon............ .

Wonder why MI5 etc are "inside" Muslim stuff in the UK eh.

You are blind.....................

[samran]

Godwin's law has been invoked!

[KunMatt]

From now on I am just going to reply to you by copying things I already said in this thread that you ignored the first time around.

The enemy is ISIS and similar groups

.....which are operating under Sharia law and abiding by Islamic law.

Which Muslim leaders and scholars from all over the world have denounced; even radical ones!

But you prefer to believe the terrorists, not the majority. Why?

It's 1930 and you are telling us all not to worry about the Nazis because you believe them when they say they are just here to be your friend.

Where have I, or anyone here, denied that Islamic extremism is a problem which needs to be solved?

Where have I, or anyone here, said that ISIS, other terrorists and Muslim extremists are not a problem; a major problem, which needs to be dealt with?

Where have I, or anyone here, condemned the action being taken against ISIS by the coalition; which includes, in case you haven't noticed, Muslim countries?

Where have I, or anyone here, defended extremist Muslim hate preachers in the UK, or anywhere else?

The difference between you and I is that I can tell the difference between the extremists, the hate preachers, the terrorists and the vast, vast majority of ordinary Muslims who are none of these things; you can't.

How is it possible that British born, raised and educated Muslims go to the IS to decapitate hostages and enslave and rape women, what is the one and only factor here which unites all of the people in the IS?

[samran]

As for your video; the short introduction to a longer programme by a 'journalist' well known for being useless; you should have seen her programme on Thailand, as I had the misfortune to do.

I'm often derided as uneducated given I don't go along with the baying mob, but one think my masters degree taught me was the veracity and credibily of the source of evidence.

Given this would be keen to see the link to that Thailand piece? Love to see the credibily of that journo especially when people pass me links from their games of Google link bingo.

I know now ive outed myself as an ivory tower so and so who's never done a day of hard work in my life and I dont know how 'real' people think of live, I'd nevertheless be much obliged.

Edited October 19, 2014 by samran

[KunMatt]

As for your video; the short introduction to a longer programme by a 'journalist' well known for being useless; you should have seen her programme on Thailand, as I had the misfortune to do.

I'm often derided as uneducated given I don't go along with the baying mob, but one think my masters degree taught me was the veracity and credibily of the source of evidence.

Given this would be keen to see the link to that Thailand piece? Love to see the credibily of that journo especially when people pass me links from their games of Google link bingo.

Much obliged.

Nothing of concern to me was from what the interviewer was saying, it was everything else in the video. Was that all fake, actors, CGI perhaps?

If you are going to ignore the facts of the video just because you think the journalist is useless then I am going to think that you are an apologist because that is exactly what they do.

[7by7]

KunMatt, I see that despite your indignation at not getting your questions answered, even when they have been, you, yourself are a master at ignoring questions!

KunMatt and Transam; no one has denied that some young British Muslims have been radicalised. This is a problem which needs to be addressed and both the government and Muslim groups in the UK are making attempts to do so; as has been shown but ignored by you.

Demonising all British Muslims is not going to help solve the problem; it will only make it worse.

The one factor uniting ISIS and their supporters is their use of the Koran to justify their actions.

A use which has been condemned and called heresy and un Islamic by Muslim leaders and scholars worldwide.

Even though you wont believe them; or say why you believe ISIS but not these leaders and scholars.

[samran]

As for your video; the short introduction to a longer programme by a 'journalist' well known for being useless; you should have seen her programme on Thailand, as I had the misfortune to do.

I'm often derided as uneducated given I don't go along with the baying mob, but one think my masters degree taught me was the veracity and credibily of the source of evidence.

Given this would be keen to see the link to that Thailand piece? Love to see the credibily of that journo especially when people pass me links from their games of Google link bingo.

Much obliged.

Nothing of concern to me was from what the interviewer was saying, it was everything else in the video. Was that all fake, actors, CGI perhaps?

If you are going to ignore the facts of the video just because you think the journalist is useless then I am going to think that you are an apologist because that is exactly what they do.

And here you we're just patting me on the back for the rational approach to things.

But while you are gathering your witty bon mots, I would like to check the credibility of your source.

Sorry if that troubles your sense of proprietary.

[KunMatt]

KunMatt, I see that despite your indignation at not getting your questions answered, even when they have been, you, yourself are a master at ignoring questions!

KunMatt and Transam; no one has denied that some young British Muslims have been radicalised. This is a problem which needs to be addressed and both the government and Muslim groups in the UK are making attempts to do so; as has been shown but ignored by you.

Demonising all British Muslims is not going to help solve the problem; it will only make it worse.

The one factor uniting ISIS and their supporters is their use of the Koran to justify their actions.

A use which has been condemned and called heresy and un Islamic by Muslim leaders and scholars worldwide.

Even though you wont believe them; or say why you believe ISIS but not these leaders and scholars.

You say that we are basing our prejudice on a minority of Muslims but there are literally hundreds of millions of radicals, however your only defense right now is based on the words of a handful of Muslim scholars who may well be lying due to taqiyya to defend Islam. For me actions always speak louder than words and having a few Muslims say that Islam is a peaceful religion while their brothers are crucifying, raping, pillaging and committing a mass genocide on that same day is just a ridiculous example for you to use to justify your Muslim bias.

[7by7]

Here is the whole programme

I haven't watched it all, yet, so will reserve further comment until I have.

For an indication of her style and credentials, here is the Thailand video I mentioned.

one of the comments to this says

Who or what is a Stacey Dooley? Never having heard of "yabba" I switched on BBC1 & honestly thought that this was a mock doc about a made up drug. Apparently the presenter is a big star on BBC3 - the networks youth channel. The BBC must think that a young audience is uneducated & have therefore got a totally il informed presenter to reflect that. What are her credentials? What's next - the BBC getting Lauren from TOWIE to present a hard hitting doc on the situation re Gaza. She's like the "Vicky Pollard" of serious journalism. The BBC should be ashamed.

which mirrors my thoughts about her and this Thailand piece exactly.

Although, as said, I have not watched her full Luton documentary so cannot yet comment on that.

[7by7]

KunMatt, I see that despite your indignation at not getting your questions answered, even when they have been, you, yourself are a master at ignoring questions!

KunMatt and Transam; no one has denied that some young British Muslims have been radicalised. This is a problem which needs to be addressed and both the government and Muslim groups in the UK are making attempts to do so; as has been shown but ignored by you.

Demonising all British Muslims is not going to help solve the problem; it will only make it worse.

The one factor uniting ISIS and their supporters is their use of the Koran to justify their actions.

A use which has been condemned and called heresy and un Islamic by Muslim leaders and scholars worldwide.

Even though you wont believe them; or say why you believe ISIS but not these leaders and scholars.

You say that we are basing our prejudice on a minority of Muslims but there are literally hundreds of millions of radicals, however your only defense right now is based on the words of a handful of Muslim scholars who may well be lying due to taqiyya to defend Islam. For me actions always speak louder than words and having a few Muslims say that Islam is a peaceful religion while their brothers are crucifying, raping, pillaging and committing a mass genocide on that same day is just a ridiculous example for you to use to justify your Muslim bias.

So your whole argument is based on your assumption that Muslims who condemn ISIS and other extremists are lying?

Pathetic.

As for a 'handful of Muslim scholars' it is a lot more than just a handful; as you would know if you had bothered to read the links provided instead of merely dismissing them as lies.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts have been removed along with replies. Please stop making this into a personal discussion.

[KunMatt]

KunMatt, I see that despite your indignation at not getting your questions answered, even when they have been, you, yourself are a master at ignoring questions!

KunMatt and Transam; no one has denied that some young British Muslims have been radicalised. This is a problem which needs to be addressed and both the government and Muslim groups in the UK are making attempts to do so; as has been shown but ignored by you.

Demonising all British Muslims is not going to help solve the problem; it will only make it worse.

The one factor uniting ISIS and their supporters is their use of the Koran to justify their actions.

A use which has been condemned and called heresy and un Islamic by Muslim leaders and scholars worldwide.

Even though you wont believe them; or say why you believe ISIS but not these leaders and scholars.

You say that we are basing our prejudice on a minority of Muslims but there are literally hundreds of millions of radicals, however your only defense right now is based on the words of a handful of Muslim scholars who may well be lying due to taqiyya to defend Islam. For me actions always speak louder than words and having a few Muslims say that Islam is a peaceful religion while their brothers are crucifying, raping, pillaging and committing a mass genocide on that same day is just a ridiculous example for you to use to justify your Muslim bias.

So your whole argument is based on your assumption that Muslims who condemn ISIS and other extremists are lying?

Pathetic.

As for a 'handful of Muslim scholars' it is a lot more than just a handful; as you would know if you had bothered to read the links provided instead of merely dismissing them as lies.

OK, so you posted this video as a source of all the "moderate Muslims in the UK"

There are 3 Muslims speaking on that video.

The first guy is Shaykh Haitham al Haddad who incites war against Jews, is pushing for the London Mega-Mosque and is pushing for a Halal UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitham_al-Haddad

The 2nd guy is Ustadh Abu Eesa who is affiliated with the AlMaghrib Institute who promote terrorism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Eesa_Niamatullah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlMaghrib_Institute#Stance_on_Terrorism

The 3rd guy is Imam Shakeel Begg who was the Imam at the Mosque the Lee Rigby murderers attended and got radicalised at. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10518792/Lee-Rigby-killers-had-links-to-Lewisham-mosque-that-attracts-radicals.html

Are these the lovely moderate British Muslims that we should not be afraid of are they? So 3 for 3, 100% of the people you use as a example as moderate British Muslims are exactly the sort of people you claim they are not. They are the exact type of people who I have been talking about this entire thread who are a threat to our civilised way of life and people like you are helping them achieve their goals by believing the big lie that there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim.

So please, WAKE UP AND FACE THE TRUTH!!!!

Should I go through the rest of your sources and see what horrific things they have all been up to before having to speak against the IS?

Edited October 19, 2014 by KunMatt

[arjunadawn]

"if radical Muslims didn't make up hundreds of millions of terrorist from all countries in the world who are currently participated in an Islamic crusade"

From the US State Department, not known for under estimation, as of 2012, even with uprounding approx 200,000 members of known Islamic terrorist organisations. Allowing for a dramatic increase with the rise of Islamic State, let's guesstimate 300,000.

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2012/209989.htm

A review of the numbers at:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140506/14033627137/how-many-terrorists-are-there-not-as-many-as-you-might-think.shtml

Got any content that empirically refutes the above?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

I know the website itself has an agenda but they have a list of links to reputable sources who point out the percentage of Muslims who support radicals. It seems to range from 10% to 50% of Muslims worldwide depending on region, so let's just go with the figure of 20% I've always been using in this thread. There are between 1.2 to 1.8 billion Muslims globally, let's use the lowest figure again, so 20% of 1.2 billion Muslims = 240 million Muslims who are radical Muslims and that is the most conservative figure, I believe that it would be more like 40% to 60% of Muslims are in support of offensive Jihad. Even in the UK 25% of British Muslims supported the 7/7 bombings which killed 52 innocent civilians who were just going about their daily life, so in a civilised Western country 25% of Muslims supported offensive Jihad against Brits, and that was nearly 10 years ago, we have had a lot more radicalising and division since then.

"The website itself has an agenda" should not be something you need to defend, or excuse. Every single web site in the world has an agenda; every single one. Indeed, if the agenda is a perspective on islam contrary to popular impression, or contrary to apology, this does not mean it is not objective. I review this website constantly and when you realize the majority or links link to various publications throughout the planet earth, you realize the only agenda is a clearinghouse collating data. Even if this site were rabid, which it is not, it still offers valuable access to shocking data.

From desiring shar'ia, to approving suicide bombings, to supporting jihad, etc., the numbers are well above 500,000,000, from polls taken over the past ten years throughout much of the islamic world, of those qualified for the label "radical."

Let me assume the people putting together the polls would be contacting, say, the 20 - 60 year old demographic. What you are really saying nearly all Muslims polled support the POVs stated above. All I have to say that with the level of support you propose as fact, 'they' are spectacularly unsuccessful in their goals.

I assume you are aware that with the polls follow up drill down analysis, as an example, Sharia Law, when clarifying if the people polled actually approve or even understand the conservative aspects of Sharia Law such as stoning for adultery the answer of a large majority is 'No'.

Out of curiosity do you broadly concur or disagree with the indicative stats provided by US State Department as of 2012?

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2012/209989.htm

Polls can be contracted to achieve nearly any result. I don't know so very much about the methodology of said polls but there's another tool I use which Is hardly empirical- gut feeling. Yes, you can't get more subjective than this; I know. If one reads Malcolm Gladwell's NYTimes Bestseller "Blink," you'd grasp how vital human intuition can really be, especially for those applying it within a specialized field.

Which brings me to your question regarding agreeing or not with the U.S. State Depart data sheet. Among other things I was an SME instructor for the U.S. State Depart, Dip Sec Servs, office of Antiterrorism Assistance-ATA. Trends in International Terrorism was among my core classes. I don't agree or not; it's just data. IMO, DoS is highly politized. But my relation to this field informs my intuition that the referenced polls do reflect my observations; thus my "Blink."

[Scott]

People have the right to their opinion. Most posters have backed up their opinion in one fashion or another. That fact that the opposing side doesn't like the information or ignores it, is up to them.

Stay on topic. The topic is about personal issues.

[7by7]

(Some quotes removed to comply with forum software)

As for a 'handful of Muslim scholars' it is a lot more than just a handful; as you would know if you had bothered to read the links provided instead of merely dismissing them as lies.

OK, so you posted this video as a source of all the "moderate Muslims in the UK"

There are 3 Muslims speaking on that video.

The first guy is Shaykh Haitham al Haddad who incites war against Jews, is pushing for the London Mega-Mosque and is pushing for a Halal UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitham_al-Haddad

The 2nd guy is Ustadh Abu Eesa who is affiliated with the AlMaghrib Institute who promote terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Eesa_Niamatullah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlMaghrib_Institute#Stance_on_Terrorism

The 3rd guy is Imam Shakeel Begg who was the Imam at the Mosque the Lee Rigby murderers attended and got radicalised at. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10518792/Lee-Rigby-killers-had-links-to-Lewisham-mosque-that-attracts-radicals.html

Are these the lovely moderate British Muslims that we should not be afraid of are they? So 3 for 3, 100% of the people you use as a example as moderate British Muslims are exactly the sort of people you claim they are not. They are the exact type of people who I have been talking about this entire thread who are a threat to our civilised way of life and people like you are helping them achieve their goals by believing the big lie that there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim.

So please, WAKE UP AND FACE THE TRUTH!!!!

Should I go through the rest of your sources and see what horrific things they have all been up to before having to speak against the IS?

Three out of the many sources I provided; is that all you could find?

You even missed Khilafah.com!

Had you read my posts you would know that I have said several times that some of the sources are radical Muslims with whose views on other matters I do not agree. I included them to show how condemnation of ISIS is not confined to just those we would consider moderate.

Even so, your links do not justify the accusations you have levelled at them.

Shaykh Haitham inciting war against all Jews? Not what it says in the Wikipedia entry you linked to.

Supports the building of the so called mega Mosque? So what; we have religious freedom in the UK; even though you may npt care for it.

Pushing for a Halal UK? Again, not what it says. He was one of the organisers of a Halal fun day at Legoland! An event cancelled following threats of violence from, among others, the EDL.

Where in your link to Ustadh Abu Eesa's Wikipedia page does it say he is affiliated to the AlMaghrib Institute?

Where on their page does it say he is affiliated to them?

You should also read the whole of the Telegraph article you have linked to; not just the headline and first three paragraphs.

Feel free to go through all my sources; no doubt you will find ways to twist them all to suit your prejudices.

[transam]

OK, 7by7 and samran..........Just a yes or no answer will do, nooooooooooo buggering around with stuff...

Are Muslim folk killing, raping innocent folk worldwide NOW because of their books writings that they follow in 2014 ......

YES or NO...?

[KunMatt]

Three out of the many sources I provided; is that all you could find?

You even missed Khilafah.com!

Had you read my posts you would know that I have said several times that some of the sources are radical Muslims with whose views on other matters I do not agree. I included them to show how condemnation of ISIS is not confined to just those we would consider moderate.

Even so, your links do not justify the accusations you have levelled at them.

Shaykh Haitham inciting war against all Jews? Not what it says in the Wikipedia entry you linked to.

Supports the building of the so called mega Mosque? So what; we have religious freedom in the UK; even though you may npt care for it.

Pushing for a Halal UK? Again, not what it says. He was one of the organisers of a Halal fun day at Legoland! An event cancelled following threats of violence from, among others, the EDL.

Where in your link to Ustadh Abu Eesa's Wikipedia page does it say he is affiliated to the AlMaghrib Institute?

Where on their page does it say he is affiliated to them?

You should also read the whole of the Telegraph article you have linked to; not just the headline and first three paragraphs.

Feel free to go through all my sources; no doubt you will find ways to twist them all to suit your prejudices.

Wow!! Seriously just wow. The level of denial and spin is quite staggering.

Not "Three out of the many sources I provided", 3 out of all 3 people in the first video you posted that I looked into. Every one of them is not the peace loving moderate Muslim that you claim the "vast majority" of Muslims are, and this is from a video you posted to show that there are decent Muslims who oppose terrorism and all of them are linked to it!!

Can I go to Dubai or Rihayd and build a small church can I? Can I even carry a bible into some Muslim countries without being arrested at the airport and made to declare that the bible is false and that Islam is the only true faith before being made to destroy my bible? Happened to a couple of Indian guys I worked with in Saudi. But what happens as soon as Muslims get to a non-Muslim country? They want to construct a Mega-Mosque in the capital and push for restaurants to serve only their food, not just have a Halal station and still serve regular food in the restaurant, no, it has to be 100% Halal. Not tolerance, no integration, OUR WAY OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

It says about Ustadh Abu Eesa right there in his Wiki entry but I'm sure you are now going to tell me that Wiki is an unreliable source and I'm wrong.

Currently, he resides in Manchester UK and is affiliated with the AlMaghrib Institute.

Shakeel Begg is the Imam at the mosque which the killers who decapitated a guy in London are linked to, and he is on tape as saying "take some money and go to Palestine and fight, fight the terrorists, fight the Zionists, does he sound like a moderate peaceful Muslim to you does he? To you he probably does.

Just bear in mind that these are the things that are known publicly about these three people who are the first that I bothered to research, do you not think that there must be much more sinister things relating to these radical characters which are not in the news?

Spin away...