Thailand agrees to British police help over murders

[Franky Bear]

Proving it's not these two Burmese lads is fairly easy. Once it's proved it's not them then, hopefully the real culprits are caught....

[bruceybonus]

Where is john in his various guises?

[TTom911]

I'm sorry if this comes across in anyway insensitive, but I cannot understand how the police force of a foreign country can be involved in ANY way in an investigation in Thailand. This is not a third world country. If this horrible event had happened in say AU, I cannot imagine the Australian govt saying to UK government "your welcome to give us a hand...."

They will be here as observers, more or less. It's not unheard of, other countries have done the same to appease strained diplomatic relations

have your "diplomatic, good guy" AND send your objective, skilled and determined "bull dog", both working together in harmony... and we might get to the truth WITH diplomatic rules obeyed...

[trainman34014]

Hats off to David Cameron for confronting the General on this matter and apparently getting a result we all wanted to see. However; it remains to be seen just to what extent British Police are allowed to be involved when you consider how much bungling and wrong doing is being covered up by the RTP high flyers, who will be desperate to keep the lid on this massive can of worms.

It would be nice to think that the correct culprits for these grisly murders will be brought to book along with all the disgustingly corrupt local and national officials who have been party to fitting up the innocent but, knowing the way this morally corrupt nation works it is hard to believe the right result will be achieved for the victims and their families.

[Sirbergan]

thought the case was done and dusted?

flawless!

can't see Thailand allowing itself to be called out

If the case actually is bogus, I assume the British delegates will be allowed to examine doctored evidence that will support the case. Wouldn't make much difference, the real culprits would still be at large and the case closed.

[Mooner]

Why are they waiting a few weeks to come? Gives the RTP some time to get their house in order. Those boys may of committed suicide by then# sarcasm.

Lets hope something positive comes out of all of this!

[slipperylobster]

Simply do an independent DNA check on the suspects. Of course, they most have something to match it to. The victims are back in England. Hopefully this can be done, once and for all.

Seems all too obvious.

Edited October 18, 2014 by slipperylobster

[jayboy]

Pretty big deal in the scheme of things and doubtless some face lost, especially for the weak UK 'ambassador' to Thailand with his praise for the police's handling of the investigation. They'll get the runaround, no doubt, and it'll be like working with tetchy teenagers, but if the Thais do sandbag this (foregone conclusion) they could be looking at some interesting travel advisories.

And do you think David Cameron would have ever pressed the issue in Milan without the Ambassador's efforts behind the scenes? And if you regard him as "weak" you clearly do not know the man.

[Artisi]

We all want the murderers caught. But what if it was those two Burmese men, can you imagine the size of Somyot's head? He will think he is the new Sherlock Holmes, and will never be off the TV.

If -

[metisdead]

A post in which the reply was made within the quoted post has been removed:

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

An inflammatory post was removed as well.

[slipperylobster]

Totally support a travel advisory until justice is served.

[jayboy]

I'm sorry if this comes across in anyway insensitive, but I cannot understand how the police force of a foreign country can be involved in ANY way in an investigation in Thailand. This is not a third world country. If this horrible event had happened in say AU, I cannot imagine the Australian govt saying to UK government "your welcome to give us a hand...."

Australia is not a third world country and its police force is not incompetent.Thailand is a third world country and it is perhaps not necessary to elaborate much on the competence of its police force.

[arrowsdawdle]

Lets try and keep the comments positive here no need for slander - this is a good result for all concerned

Koh Tao puyais tumbling around in shock under the bus may not agree.

[Baerboxer]

After the endless, complicated and contradictory developments and comments concerning this case, it seems to me that it all boils down to one very simple FIRST action, at this stage, for the British investigators to perform : take a DNA sample from the two Burmese guys, with enough witnesses around so that the authenticity of the samples cannot later be questioned, and then compare them with the DNA that the British investigators have taken in Britain from the body.

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

If the DNA of the Burmese guys is compared with samples provided by the Thai police, there will be no end to suspicion of foul play.

The whole system of evidence based on DNA works on the assumption that no one tampers with the samples because the people who perform the sampling are trustworthy and eager to serve true justice. If and when the people in question become suspicious in the eyes of the public and/or the press, then the whole process amounts to nothing, and so called evidence is rightly seen as potential manipulation.

I think you will find it a matter of standard procedure that post mortems are performed with every death in the UK... Especially in the case of a crime.

No matter where it is committed, the autopsy is done and evidence is collected. That is standard procedure.

There is also an investigation opened even if it is out of their jurisdiction. British people were murdered and the police must open an investigation even if they can do nothing hands on and no matter how limited it is, evidence must be collected. That is also standard procedure.

I also read that a team of murder investigators have already been appointed weeks ago... This was mentioned in the UK press covering Hannah's funeral.

I also read at the time the repatriation of the bodies was being reported that police forensics would be taking DNA samples.

As already mentioned.... It is difficult to sanitise a body totally to remove all DNA traces... It is almost impossible to remove and replace with misleading random DNA to throw police off the scent without it showing up to the trained forensic eye. They are too well trained.

But the thing that will be a problem for the BIB if there is indeed a cover up... The bodies were released after just a few days and repatriated immediately.... At that time, police were looking for farangs if you remember?

There had been no mention about Sean McCanna or Village Headsmen's family members, or anything else that would have triggered a cover up. That came about a week after the bodies already left Thailand.

So at the time there was very little need to tamper with DNA...... But a lot happened after that. Now it is widely suspected of a cover up, and to be quite honest..... I don't think the RTP have a snowball's chance in hell of keeping it going let alone 'credible'.

I can really see a lot of people fleeing not only the island, but Thailand itself.... Including police..... and they do.

Thank you very much, WB, for this clear, extensive and re-assuring information. I am not a British national so I don't know what the standard procedure may be in that country, and I only very occasionally read the British press. So once again, thanks for your input.

One can only hope that the truth will come out fast, then.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has the creeps thinking not only about those two young tourists being savagely murdered on Koh Tao, but also about the two Burmese guys who may be innocent and perhaps deliberately framed. Now, if they are innocent and the fact is proved by reliable investigators, this country's reputation will be dealt a blow in the face like never before. And I, for one, will not be clapping my hands in joy but feel sorry for all the Thais who are not crooked, not corrupt, not invoved in mafia activities and who do not deserve to be vilified and bashed by the sad racist lot on this forum who never tire of negative generalizing about the country where they live.

WB's idea of standard procedures isn't correct. It's not standard procedure to automatically carry out a post mortem in every death. In suspicious circumstances, or where the cause of death is not readily obvious, then the police will want to check. Where the death is line with on ongoing condition, illness, and there are no signs of anything unusual the police will not request one.

There have been no reports of what examinations and tests, if any, occurred in Britain. That should become more obvious now. Hopefully they have carried out checks and have their own reports and samples available rather than relying on the information provided.

[robblok]

All nice and good.. but lets wait what happens. Remember these are people who don't speak Thai, I wonder if they take an independent translator with them.

If they are being stonewalled still nothing will happen.

Of course they will have their own translators, the British Embassy has its own team of translators, they will provide them.

If they are being stonewalled, then Thailand will learn very fast that Brits are not Thais and they don't do Thainess. If you piss them off, they are likely to get very frustrated and lay into the RTP.

Brits speak their minds, and they will surely be touched by these horrific murders, and any funny business from the RTP is not going to be met with very well.

To the poster who said, the British police will go along with the cover up to save face for Thailand...... You want your head examined.

UK police are pretty tough. no nonsense types... They are professional, but they don't take no shit. I have been on the wrong side of them in the past.... Trust me. They won't take shit from the RTP. They are on the high ground.

How long have you been in Thailand.. and not to sound negative but if the police don't want to cooperate then the British cops cant do much. I really don't see this as a victory yet. Though I really hope things will go well.

[ttthailand]

Check ( taken by British police and not Thais) the DNA from the Burmese guys and see if it matches the victim's samples taken in the UK. If it matches basically case closed and time to go home. If it does not match then it is a hole new ball game.

There are however questions regarding the Burmese guys civil rights and other issues but the DNA results will be the key to the direction this will all be heading.

[deecee10]

It's all a bit late now.

Goodness knows how contaminated the evidence is by now.

[JLCrab]

Good at sniffing out porkie pies is the plod.

Indeed they are. And very good, usually, at digging out all the detail and evidence. It's the detail that often catches the criminals.

The British police won't normally allow the media or social media to influence them. They won't come with pre-decided opinions of guilt and innocence based on the wild speculations on social media sites, hearsay, and contradictory press reports allegedly based on "police sources".

I would imagine the chubby footballer with the shark tooth ring, photographed close to Hannah in a group photo on the night might be a witness they'd like to question. Along with some people on the island or those who have since moved to other parts of Thailand. The independent DNA tests will provide an answer on the 2 current suspects. Hopefully they have their own DNA samples from the victim, can confirm if there was a third sample as a Thai forensics person said on TV, and can take samples from the suspects themselves.

I'm sure the team sent will be selected very carefully.

The person "photographed close to Hannah in a group photo" is most likely a Photoshop composite.

[ScubaPhuket]

After the endless, complicated and contradictory developments and comments concerning this case, it seems to me that it all boils down to one very simple FIRST action, at this stage, for the British investigators to perform : take a DNA sample from the two Burmese guys, with enough witnesses around so that the authenticity of the samples cannot later be questioned, and then compare them with the DNA that the British investigators have taken in Britain from the body.

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

If the DNA of the Burmese guys is compared with samples provided by the Thai police, there will be no end to suspicion of foul play.

The whole system of evidence based on DNA works on the assumption that no one tampers with the samples because the people who perform the sampling are trustworthy and eager to serve true justice. If and when the people in question become suspicious in the eyes of the public and/or the press, then the whole process amounts to nothing, and so called evidence is rightly seen as potential manipulation.

I think you will find it a matter of standard procedure that post mortems are performed with every death in the UK... Especially in the case of a crime.

No matter where it is committed, the autopsy is done and evidence is collected. That is standard procedure.

There is also an investigation opened even if it is out of their jurisdiction. British people were murdered and the police must open an investigation even if they can do nothing hands on and no matter how limited it is, evidence must be collected. That is also standard procedure.

I also read that a team of murder investigators have already been appointed weeks ago... This was mentioned in the UK press covering Hannah's funeral.

I also read at the time the repatriation of the bodies was being reported that police forensics would be taking DNA samples.

As already mentioned.... It is difficult to sanitise a body totally to remove all DNA traces... It is almost impossible to remove and replace with misleading random DNA to throw police off the scent without it showing up to the trained forensic eye. They are too well trained.

But the thing that will be a problem for the BIB if there is indeed a cover up... The bodies were released after just a few days and repatriated immediately.... At that time, police were looking for farangs if you remember?

There had been no mention about Sean McCanna or Village Headsmen's family members, or anything else that would have triggered a cover up. That came about a week after the bodies already left Thailand.

So at the time there was very little need to tamper with DNA...... But a lot happened after that. Now it is widely suspected of a cover up, and to be quite honest..... I don't think the RTP have a snowball's chance in hell of keeping it going let alone 'credible'.

I can really see a lot of people fleeing not only the island, but Thailand itself.... Including police..... and they do.

Thank you very much, WB, for this clear, extensive and re-assuring information. I am not a British national so I don't know what the standard procedure may be in that country, and I only very occasionally read the British press. So once again, thanks for your input.

One can only hope that the truth will come out fast, then.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has the creeps thinking not only about those two young tourists being savagely murdered on Koh Tao, but also about the two Burmese guys who may be innocent and perhaps deliberately framed. Now, if they are innocent and the fact is proved by reliable investigators, this country's reputation will be dealt a blow in the face like never before. And I, for one, will not be clapping my hands in joy but feel sorry for all the Thais who are not crooked, not corrupt, not invoved in mafia activities and who do not deserve to be vilified and bashed by the sad racist lot on this forum who never tire of negative generalizing about the country where they live.

WB's idea of standard procedures isn't correct. It's not standard procedure to automatically carry out a post mortem in every death. In suspicious circumstances, or where the cause of death is not readily obvious, then the police will want to check. Where the death is line with on ongoing condition, illness, and there are no signs of anything unusual the police will not request one.

There have been no reports of what examinations and tests, if any, occurred in Britain. That should become more obvious now. Hopefully they have carried out checks and have their own reports and samples available rather than relying on the information provided.

& your ideas are spurious, facetious & argumentative.

You're right to say that statements from the UK are sparse but there's a very good reason for that & whether you can see that reason or not is really not of interest to me or anybody else on this forum.

[CockneyGit]

While they're here, why not investigate the Kirsty Jones affair and also if the policeman who murdered the two backpackers in Kanchanaburi is actually still in prison.

[Baerboxer]

Proving it's not these two Burmese lads is fairly easy. Once it's proved it's not them then, hopefully the real culprits are caught....

Unlike you Franky, the British police won't decide who is guilty or innocent before actually knowing.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thank you Mr. PM I knew in my heart Your a man of Honor, What you did to allow this to happen Has Shown The world Thailand is working toward the goal of an open Honest and relationship with the global community. Words alone can't say how this made me feel. No matter the results at least you opened the door. Then all this can stop. Also sends message to those that are corrupt no place to run no place to hide your days of same old same old have come to an end.

Don't count your chickens, we haven't heard his own "Thai" version of what was said yet... Wait till he lands in BKK... I'm sure it will be completely different once the Police Chief tells him his "share" will be void if he let's the British get involved.

? Think you need to expand your horizons.

[Oziex1]

Made famous in America some years back was a chap on a horse calling out "The British are coming. the British are coming"....fast forward to the 20th century in Thailand, on the island of Tao and imagine a BIB on an elephant calling out the same in Thai. Nah, doubt it would happen! He couldn't afford to feed it!

Did you mean the 21st century, or was that a swipe at Thailand not up to date yet?

[sweatalot]

This must mean that the PM believes that the Burmese guys are guilty and they the Thai police have done a competent investigation otherwise there is no way he could he silly enough to let the UK come and do their own investigation, unless he thinks the UK are too stupid to find out the truth or that the case has been so corrupted that the UK cannot get to the truth i.e. If the original DNA from the victims has been replaced

This must mean ...

Nope

May be the PM now understands that he (and Thailand) has no future when he continues to back the Thai police

its NOT going to be pretty......

for the Thai police, I hope

[ScubaPhuket]

Proving it's not these two Burmese lads is fairly easy. Once it's proved it's not them then, hopefully the real culprits are caught....

Unlike you Franky, the British police won't decide who is guilty or innocent before actually knowing.

They already know. MI6 exists for a reason & they are not fools.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[MediaWatcher]

It will be interesting to see if this investigation is allowed to proceed, and under what "conditions." Wouldn't we all like to be a "fly on the wall," when a pommy copper asks a thai copper, why did they do it this way, why wasn't this done, why weren't these people interviewed or DNA tested...etc.

We all know Thais do not like being asked these questions...

Edited October 18, 2014 by MediaWatcher

[Franky Bear]

Proving it's not these two Burmese lads is fairly easy. Once it's proved it's not them then, hopefully the real culprits are caught....

Unlike you Franky, the British police won't decide who is guilty or innocent before actually knowing.

So DNA samples won't prove with these lads did it or not? When did the science change mate?

[draftvader]

"One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification."

But will they be permitted to obtain their own samples?

If not then that is what they'll report. That will be just as damning in the eyes of the international community as finding evidence of a cover up leading to ????

"Would you like the continuation of tax incentives for Thai businesses invested in the UK? Maybe the travel advisory we are serving at the moment is not really helping your tourism projections? What could we do to solve this problem?"

I'm sorry if this comes across in anyway insensitive, but I cannot understand how the police force of a foreign country can be involved in ANY way in an investigation in Thailand. This is not a third world country. If this horrible event had happened in say AU, I cannot imagine the Australian govt saying to UK government "your welcome to give us a hand...."

It is easy to understand how this works. It is called diplomacy. For all the "you're not an empire anymore" rubbish spouted people tend to ignore the simple fact that the UK has the 8th largest economy in the world. For 2 nations of almost identical population sizes it is quite stark to note that the UK economy is 3,720 times the size of Thailand's. That can get round a lot of the "this is an affront to our sovereignty!" c*4p being spouted by ego-bruised senior police in Thailand.

Edited October 18, 2014 by draftvader

[Franky Bear]

I wouldn't read too much into the "they'll be here in a few weeks" quote. I'd imagine briefings will be taking place today and they'll be on a plane by Monday

[Baerboxer]

Thank you very much, WB, for this clear, extensive and re-assuring information. I am not a British national so I don't know what the standard procedure may be in that country, and I only very occasionally read the British press. So once again, thanks for your input.

One can only hope that the truth will come out fast, then.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has the creeps thinking not only about those two young tourists being savagely murdered on Koh Tao, but also about the two Burmese guys who may be innocent and perhaps deliberately framed. Now, if they are innocent and the fact is proved by reliable investigators, this country's reputation will be dealt a blow in the face like never before. And I, for one, will not be clapping my hands in joy but feel sorry for all the Thais who are not crooked, not corrupt, not invoved in mafia activities and who do not deserve to be vilified and bashed by the sad racist lot on this forum who never tire of negative generalizing about the country where they live.

WB's idea of standard procedures isn't correct. It's not standard procedure to automatically carry out a post mortem in every death. In suspicious circumstances, or where the cause of death is not readily obvious, then the police will want to check. Where the death is line with on ongoing condition, illness, and there are no signs of anything unusual the police will not request one.

There have been no reports of what examinations and tests, if any, occurred in Britain. That should become more obvious now. Hopefully they have carried out checks and have their own reports and samples available rather than relying on the information provided.

& your ideas are spurious, facetious & argumentative.

You're right to say that statements from the UK are sparse but there's a very good reason for that & whether you can see that reason or not is really not of interest to me or anybody else on this forum.

You just can't keep your nose out - even when it of no interest to you, can you?

It's a public forum - not yours to manage. If you don't like that the second word is "off".

Edited October 18, 2014 by Baerboxer