UK cops 'to only observe'

[HughJass]

The Thai government needs to be called on their unauthorised comments in no uncertain manner and, for example, a travel advisory which goes beyond the usual notice of martial law etc but actually warns travellers their diplomatic representatives may not be able to help them because of restrictions and so on from the ' host ' government.

I think you'll find every informed traveler and country embassy advices citizens to leave their "we our more special" attitudes at home when visiting another country as they have absolutely no jurisdiction into criminal matters within other countries or much of anything else. Once you leave your own country you are bound by the laws and procedures of that country and highly doubtful your embassy will even provide an attorney without your paying ... they will however hold your hand for comfort from time to time but that is about it.

Not true, many countries insist on using their own laws for sex crimes committed abroad.

Anyway, all that is required of the British police, is they take their own DNA samples from the accused, and send them back to the UK. No investigation required.

I am sure they have already secured DNA samples from the parents of the two accused who are at present in Thailand

[sitti]

Does anyone here know if the general has a formal education?

Because most foreigners here with personal interaction and experience with so called educated Thais know that is just not the case. The Thai higher learning institutions are mostly substandard and lacking any real world credibility.

That said, it appears our dear general may never have had a formal education outside the sorry excuse for the Thai military. And of he did attend university here on Thailand then it explains a lot.

Has anyone ever seen his cv?

Questions...questions.

Not very relevant. Just becuase one had higher education doesn't make him always right. People with Phd aren't always right and high school dropouts aren't always wrong. Many stupid terrorists that get caught so easily had higher educations in the US and UK. In this kind of case, experience is more important. And don't forget, not anybody withmoney can just become the general. Many people have money. Just like what Byran (from movie Taken) said "I can tell you I don't have money... but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you."

I would rather take people with long proven experiences than fresh grads with only papers.

[Fozfromoz]

In the interests of fairness and to expedite the case, British investigators will be bound and gagged, and strapped into office chairs.

regarding allowing foreign crime investigators in on investigation: ever hear of Lockerbie Pan Am bombing? US investigators worked hand in hand with British on that one. I don't want to argue outcome of investigation, just point that British didn't worry about "losing face" or any of that. They wanted to find perps, unlike here it seems.

Bad example to use in terms of trying to make UK authorities look like they are on the up and and up. By the way, this was an investigation that involved numerous countries and suspects and evidence in numerous countries. This was a crime in Thailand and all the evidence, suspects and victims were in Thailand. No reason to get international agencies involved to solve the case. The UK needed the FBI assistance to get convictions of Al-Megrahi and still couldn't get a conviction of the other suspect. Thailand didn't need the assistance of anyone for this case except possibly Singapore to help identify the race of suspect from DNA.

A bit off topic but an example of multiple police forces working together, is a case that occurred back in the nineties (1994) 2 young Britons and an Australian were murdered by KR in Cambodia. Both Scotland Yard and AFP investigated with the Cambodian police.

[motlau]

Obtain the suspect DNA simple --making sure the UK police do it themselves

[metisdead]

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[Sviss Geez]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

Have you never heard of translators/interpreters?

Depends which side they are loyal to and who picks them.

What depends on what?

[deecee10]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

Who's ever spoken about 'expecting to surrender all legal authority'?

It's never been about the UK police taking over.

[UDONJIM]

The Thai government needs to be called on their unauthorised comments in no uncertain manner and, for example, a travel advisory which goes beyond the usual notice of martial law etc but actually warns travellers their diplomatic representatives may not be able to help them because of restrictions and so on from the ' host ' government.

I think you'll find every informed traveler and country embassy advices citizens to leave their "we our more special" attitudes at home when visiting another country as they have absolutely no jurisdiction into criminal matters within other countries or much of anything else. Once you leave your own country you are bound by the laws and procedures of that country and highly doubtful your embassy will even provide an attorney without your paying ... they will however hold your hand for comfort from time to time but that is about it.

Not true, many countries insist on using their own laws for sex crimes committed abroad.

Anyway, all that is required of the British police, is they take their own DNA samples from the accused, and send them back to the UK. No investigation required.

[boomerangutang]

If there was any doubt the case is a complete frame-up, the PM's statement should clear that up. From the moment the PM appointed a new head investigator, 2 weeks ago, this case has had frame-up written all over it. By doing a frame-up, also necessitates shielding those who should be prime suspects: the headman's family and buddies.

I predicted every daily headline, and I can continue to do so, at least for the upcoming week. Here's what to expect:

>>> frame-up continues. Cops and gov't/army top brass will continue to lock arms and do all they can to keep pesky UK investigators (and any other outsiders) at a distance.

>>> court proceedings will continue to pushed along as fast as possible. The sooner the Burmese scapegoats are convicted, the sooner the island can get back to what's important: taking farang money.

>>> Brit 'observers' won't even be able to mention anything regarding the headman's family and friends. The Brits will quickly become frustrated at being so hamstrung, and will recede from the scene. They won't make a big fuss, because diplomacy trumps (is more important than) honest legal proceedings.

[Neeranam]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

No way! That is a totally screwed up system if the future king is given a speeding fine.

[UDONJIM]

Agree 100%. This whole case evolves around the DNA evidence, as far as I can see the other evidence is mostly circumstantial. Although the British police are describes as 'observers' that does not mean they don't have the right to report the validity or non-validity of evidence presented. I would hope if they are unhappy with the DNA evidence, they will request independent tests be done. If the RTP refuse, then this will surely show the world the 'real' Thailand. DNA is the key and all that really matters in this case.

[Sviss Geez]

Surely as always, there are 2 sides to this topic. A few (very few, both local and internationally) are happy with the investigation the "sound" evidences and everyting surrounding the case. Then there are MANY that are not, these are the facts also resulting a British officials summoning Thai representatives, more than 100,000 signatures in an on-line petition; (...).

Anyhow as with any doubt in any scenario be it privately, in business or public is it not logic that you show the doubting opponent that he is wrong? Even more if it is very easy?

Easy in this case means: Have the DNA-Match of the suscpects independently verified!

Not hard at all - right?

To me the categoric refusal to do so tells a lot!

I hope the lawyer the suspects is strong and connected enough to dare to make this request! However my hope goes to the Social Media and the British observers to get this finally done.

So keep posting and let's spread the word wherever possible!

"...more than 100,000 signatures in an on-line petition..."

"...keep posting and let's spread the word..."

As only 0.15% of the Great Britain signed the petition, a very good indication of how many people actually care if you listen to the posters here, you are going to very much have to keep spreading the word.

[djhotsox]

I hate to state the obvious here but the only interest (but it is a big one) that Thailand and the RTP have in this case is that they stand to lose not just face, but credibility on an international level and the extreme hurt that would go along with the exposure of the depth of the corruptness here.

The victims = British

The alleged perps = Burmese

What's Thailand got at stake here? (rhetorical) If so sure it's the Burmese then why not just hand everything over to the UK authorities and say "fill your boots", it doesn't affect us, let us know what you come up with.....??

Thailand needs it to be those 2 poor Burmese guys on so many levels.....and they aren't going to risk jeopardizing that outcome......i guarantee that.

So I'm sure if anyone can come up with a loss of face saving way out of this one without anyone (else) getting hurt I"m sure the good General et. al. would love to hear all about it!

[draftvader]

7th May 2015. 200 days to the general election. http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm

These margins are narrow and fragile.

What will Cameron do to become the first Conservative PM since Thatcher to win back to back terms? I wonder which demographic is wandering into the UKIP camp? Which papers are trying to push the Koh Tao case and are pro-UKIP? What is their reader demographic?

No, I can't be bothered to trawl the data...its Sunday. Sure as hell though somebody in the Conservative party has. I wonder what the feeling is on that one? Maybe this win played out in front of an easily led, and nationalistic, demographic might just swing it back to the Conservatives?

I wonder whether Prayuth has considered this? Doesn't look too likely.

[Neeranam]

I hate to state the obvious here but the only interest (but it is a big one) that Thailand and the RTP have in this case is that they stand to lose not just face, but credibility on an international level and the extreme hurt that would go along with the exposure of the depth of the corruptness here.

The victims = British

The alleged perps = Burmese

What's Thailand got at stake here? (rhetorical) If so sure it's the Burmese then why not just hand everything over to the UK authorities and say "fill your boots", it doesn't affect us, let us know what you come up with.....??

Thailand needs it to be those 2 poor Burmese guys on so many levels.....and they aren't going to risk jeopardizing that outcome......i guarantee that.

So I'm sure if anyone can come up with a loss of face saving way out of this one without anyone (else) getting hurt I"m sure the good General et. al. would love to hear all about it!

That's the problem - it's gotten too big now - there is no way out and I agree with you, they will do ANYTHING for this mess to go away. It is not money at stake anymore, it's their jobs and freedom that are at stake.

[bannork]

Doesnt answer my question.

Either you are too thick to get it, else you are purposefully posting cr@p in order to derail the thread. Probably a bit of both.

The point is the British Police will now arrive and 'observe'.

Better that than just allow the Thai police to get this case to court without any transparency.

It may make no difference, but at least the screw is being turned and I believe that there will be an awful lot of people on Koh Tao who are literally sh!tting bricks at the minute.

"...an awful lot of people on Koh Tao who are literally sh!tting bricks..."

Literally? Wow, are you sure? Wouldn't they have had to, literally, eaten bricks first?

They probably got plastered first.

[Sviss Geez]

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

No way! That is a totally screwed up system if the future king is given a speeding fine.

Why? No-one should be above the law, what's so special about Prince Charles?

[sitti]

Surely as always, there are 2 sides to this topic. A few (very few, both local and internationally) are happy with the investigation the "sound" evidences and everyting surrounding the case. Then there are MANY that are not, these are the facts also resulting a British officials summoning Thai representatives, more than 100,000 signatures in an on-line petition; (...).

Anyhow as with any doubt in any scenario be it privately, in business or public is it not logic that you show the doubting opponent that he is wrong? Even more if it is very easy?

Easy in this case means: Have the DNA-Match of the suscpects independently verified!

Not hard at all - right?

To me the categoric refusal to do so tells a lot!

I hope the lawyer the suspects is strong and connected enough to dare to make this request! However my hope goes to the Social Media and the British observers to get this finally done.

So keep posting and let's spread the word wherever possible!

"...more than 100,000 signatures in an on-line petition..."

"...keep posting and let's spread the word..."

As only 0.15% of the Great Britain signed the petition, a very good indication of how many people actually care if you listen to the posters here, you are going to very much have to keep spreading the word.

Very true. This is the reality. Just like any other crime case in the past and thousands of online petition, soon people will completely forget and start talking about something else. If people do really care, do the petition and protest offline.

[Carrerakiss]

The families of Thailand murder victims Hannah Witheridge and David Miller have been invited to help secure death sentences for the suspects ....

Justice officials said the grieving parents can team up with prosecutors to file joint murder charges against two Burmese migrant workers ....

The quirk of Thai law means murder victims families can hire lawyers and investigators who could turn up additional evidence or testimony.

However, such cases are rare because of the hefty costs.

The offer was made by the prosecutor in charge of the case.....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798695/families-thai-murder-victims-invited-secure-death-sentences-suspects-despite-concerns-ve-framed.html#ixzz3GZ73UP00

But surely that is a two way street, can't the families also introduce evidence to the contrary of what the police have submitted?

Somebody actually thinking logically and not emotionally or looking for conspiracy

Could be a way to get British police in the country under the radar. Family hires Thai PI, who works with "assistants" originating from England, and work all the clues of the case, not just those followed by the BIB.

On another aspect, what are the BIB thinking? Do they for one moment think that a Westerner would want to pursue this avenue? They really have no idea.

[richusa]

Does Singapore have DNA Samples?

If not all the DNA in the Thai Officials hands is tainted.

And the headsman is still pouring drinks with a smile, drinks for all my police friends.....These 2 small Burmese could not do that much damage on 2 individuals.....

[Docno]

Surely as always, there are 2 sides to this topic. A few (very few, both local and internationally) are happy with the investigation the "sound" evidences and everyting surrounding the case. Then there are MANY that are not, these are the facts also resulting a British officials summoning Thai representatives, more than 100,000 signatures in an on-line petition; (...).

Anyhow as with any doubt in any scenario be it privately, in business or public is it not logic that you show the doubting opponent that he is wrong? Even more if it is very easy?

Easy in this case means: Have the DNA-Match of the suscpects independently verified!

Not hard at all - right?

To me the categoric refusal to do so tells a lot!

I hope the lawyer the suspects is strong and connected enough to dare to make this request! However my hope goes to the Social Media and the British observers to get this finally done.

So keep posting and let's spread the word wherever possible!

"...more than 100,000 signatures in an on-line petition..."

"...keep posting and let's spread the word..."

As only 0.15% of the Great Britain signed the petition, a very good indication of how many people actually care if you listen to the posters here, you are going to very much have to keep spreading the word.

While you're correct in absolute terms, 100K signatures is very high in relative terms, especially if you consider that this issue does not affect the general public. Here's a list of open petitions to the UK government... just look at the numbers: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions

[JacChang]

See only, no touch.

You touch, you pay, okay?

[templedog]

anyone in their right mind can see the koh tao murder case as a complete whitewash.

i would bet my left (you know what) that the UK (oops, caps) is complicit in it as well.

what an opportunity to use leverage to get some oil/gas drilling deals in the gulf for BP

in return for going along with the whitewash and to get back to "business as usual".

people need to wake up and stop being so naive, you must understand current

hard ball politics in order to make sense of this.

only 4 caps....ok? thank you, sir!

Edited October 19, 2014 by templedog

[Mudcrab]

To take a different view on all of this......perhaps this may be the catalyst for the general to purge the RTP?

Many times in the last couple of months a lot of things have been achieved by the army where before the RTP appeared to be unable to achieve anything on their own.

One can live in hope.

[DennisF]

since rarely is even a life sentence actually a life sentence in Thailand.

And the more money you have and how well you are connected in the patronage system will determine

how long you serve of the sentence.

If you are a heir to a sweet soft drink.. you can be out on bail for years and never come to the end of the appeals process... or if you rape and kill but are a hotel owner with

good connections, not only can you escape prosecution, you can have foreign media thrown out of the country..

....thats the difference that is being objected to.

This case is being watched by the whole World, despite the JTJ and Ballsos of the forum, not just a few people. 100000 signatures on a petition that

took very little time to put together, protests in many major cities about the apparent corruption of the BiB, a whole raft of wonderful caring Thai people objecting on social media.

So, Ballsy and JTJ ( both of which I now ignore as they never answer direct questions, merely regurgitate the official line and propogate bigotry) you think that all these hundreds of thousands of people have absolutely NOTHING to complain about the Thai justice system and you and your little gang of trolls are correct??? Bet youre the only little soldiers that marched in step too.

Your families should be ashamed of you simply for not allowing the possibility of mistakes or corruption and for sacrificing your Thainess for profit.

[DennisF]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

No way! That is a totally screwed up system if the future king is given a speeding fine.

Absolutely NOT screwed up, that ar5eole could kill someone just as easily as you or I.

One law for all, no exceptions.

[loonodingle]

At least it's a start. Once here I am sure they can look more in depth than any CSI LA or TV arm chair detective. They will have done a DNA on the victims in the UK. I don't doubt they will get DNA from the 2 goats in Samui. That's all they need do. From there all hell will break loose..... "UK POLICE CHALLENGE THE THAILAND DNA RESULTS"

[In Search of Space]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

It's quite common in Europe for UK police to "assist" local police forces on major cases, I think we even had us authorities in UK a few months ago.

They can't carry out their own investigation, but they can look at evidence etc & review the BIB processes & evidence

[coma]

What an eye opener they're in for. 555

I think everyone is in for a very rude awakening on this site. I can't believe how all these armchair detectives have figured out the whole case when they know absolutely zero facts.

I have read posts where posters have seen the gruesome photos and determined the young migrants are to small to do this terrible body mutilations. I say, How So? Sucker clubbed game over.

I read how the armchair critics have figured its a cover up and a frame up. Where did that dream come from?? Pure speculation! Does anyone really know any of the facts that the RTP or the coroner has? I think not!

The previous posted news story here with the media reporting what some say may be misconstrued facts when on and on for 30 pages of posts one after the other surmising, guessing, speculating. fantasizing and downright dreaming up false facts.

Now here we go again doing it all over again here on this new news release and now I must wonder about this 100,000 name petition. How did that many people get inflamed??? Could it have been the back and forth media reports and the police media releases? Could it be us here speculating with people back in the UK?

Whatever it may be fellow posters, let us let the chips fall where they may, let the hands be dealt and if we do not like the winning hand, we can call foul at that time.

I would say it is all the armchair detectives here and elsewhere puting doubt into certain foriegn government's minds as to how the Thai are working this case. And rightly so. It is not an isolated incident, this particularly farcial investigation. The country runs rife with unsolved murder mysteries involving foriegners. Edited October 19, 2014 by coma

[phuketandsee]

A few points are out of place:

1. Now he speaks for Cameron. What he says and what the UK press is saying are like, 1000 km apart.

2. Bobbies are here to only observe. UK police are never happy to only observe. They are prolific in their hunting and gathering. They will go nuts just observing.

3. Thai police follow the law. No scapegoats. I seriously doubt that. Not their modus operandi to NOT have scapegoats.

To believe these two are 'scapegoats' one would have to believe that a family in Koh Tao has the political power to corrupt the top most positions of power in Thailand, hundreds of miles away in Bangkok. Is Thailand in such shape as to allow a family in Koh Tao to tell the most powerful men in Thailand which way the wind is blowing ?

In a word - Yes. I suggest you do a little more reading on these threads and you find more details. To help look for "Surithani," "PDRC," and "demonstrations."