Thaksin gained most from coup, Chalerm claims

[Ve37]

"Prayut is not stupid enough to do such a thing because one day he has to step down and continue living in the country. It is unlikely he would do anything which brings negative consequences onto himself."

I disagree. All news reports (such as in Bangkok Post) indicate that the General behind the Yellow Curtain will make sure the new Constitution limits all powers of populist Officials, and establish a permanent "Good People Committee" of PDRC folks to approval all governing by anyone elected from North Thailand.

[wprime]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

"The people have the democratic right to protest."

True, except when their protest includes physically preventing other citizens from exercising their right to vote (the core of what democracy means).

The protests were a fundamentally non-democratic--actually, anti-democratic--in aim and action.

Protests are an inalienable right under democracy and therefore are inherently democratic. That being said, beating up people to stop them from voting is not protesting, it's assault.

The original motive of the protests was to block legislation passed illegally and without popular support. A citizen under a democracy has duty to protest in such a situation.

[IMA_FARANG]

Been taking more "earache medicine" have you Chalerm?

[Eric Loh]

I'm no fan of military dictatorships

I'm also no fan of the pretend-democracy that PT sells.

What is rather alarming is that supporters of PT are quoting this rambling idiotic alcoholic and brandishing his quotes like a sword of truth!

Forget the messenger. It's the message that resonate with many who feel that coups only harden the resolve of the people to have distrust of the military intention and have not done any difference to the political landscape 18 times over.

[wprime]

I'm no fan of military dictatorships

I'm also no fan of the pretend-democracy that PT sells.

What is rather alarming is that supporters of PT are quoting this rambling idiotic alcoholic and brandishing his quotes like a sword of truth!

Forget the messenger. It's the message that resonate with many who feel that coups only harden the resolve of the people to have distrust of the military intention and have not done any difference to the political landscape 18 times over.

I disagree, military coups are like wife beating husbands, each time they come back the people tell themselves this time it'll be different.

[Bluespunk]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

"The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy"

So is voting!!!

Use the ballot-box!!

Both are legitimate parts of democracy. The people have the right to protest if a govt is acting in its interests not those of the country.

Elections are important and I have no problem with PT winning them, but if they rule as they did prior to the street protests and eventual coup then protests will occur again. As they should.

Winning elections gives a party to rule however it also gives them the responsibility to do so in a legitimate manner. They can rule but they must do so for the benefit of the country, not themselves and their criminal backer.

[max72]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

Possibly,yes.

Indeed the first years of Thaksin govt, were by the far the best Thailand had ever had: poverty HALVED, Gini coeff, improved, corruption index the lowest in Thai history (Transparency int.), the cleanest elections ever held in Thailand, a boom in the international reserves, ALL DEBT WITH IMF PAID IN ADVANCE (no country had ever done this), accumulated 50% GDP growth, universal health care, fight against the drugs, new international airport built in record time after 40 years of promises by previous corrupt military governments, internal and external debts dropped....

Than, many bad things for sure, but the best Thailand has ever held. By the time I think Thaksin power thirsty would have destroyed him, just like it happened in Peru with Fujimori who started very well and ended in disgrace. Good point.

[Bluespunk]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

and yet so many on here (and elsewhere) cheered very loudly when their right to protest (along with various other rights) were summarily stripped by the Junta...

I should have said peaceful protest.

I should have said law enforcement that protected protesters.

I should have said a govt that did not vilify and allow attacks upon the protesters.

I should have said a govt that does not contain chalerm.

I should have said a protest movement that does not contain suthep and his lunacy.

I should have said many things.

The fact remains, protest is part of the democratic system.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Bluespunk

[WhizBang]

However, Chalerm believes there are only two scenarios that could lead to a Pheu Thai defeat: Thaksin dies or quits politics.

Thank you Chalerm. You have just confirmed that the ultimate solution will indeed work.

[max72]

The Nation stance has changed , because they realize any other govt. than Thaksin is 1000 times more enemy of democracy and free speech.

I remember the Thaksin-The Nation bickering, i remember (coz my wife worked in the same building) when Thaksin sent a guy with a motocycle to throw a bomb into the garden where there is The Nation building. It was not done to hurt anyone, but to scare them.

One day after, The Nation wrote something like that "Thaksin sent someone to drop a bomb to scare us, but we are not scared ". I though "Well done, The Nation !"

One night (or two ,i don t remember) later, Thaksin sent again a guy (the same, another one ?) to throw sockets (small bags ?) full of excrement.

So, Thaksin had clearly no much respect for free speech and criticism either, but I think the Nation realized that what about military junta ?

Would they bother to do those games ? No, that would be much much worse.

A real democracy in Thailand has never come yet. And judging from those called reforms, it doesn t look it will come anytime soon.

Edited October 19, 2014 by max72

[Bluespunk]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

"The people have the democratic right to protest."

True, except when their protest includes physically preventing other citizens from exercising their right to vote (the core of what democracy means).

The protests were a fundamentally non-democratic--actually, anti-democratic--in aim and action.

No.

What suthep did in blocking elections was wrong.

The protests themselves were a democratic expression of anger at the arrogant lords and ladies of misrule that was the last PT govt.

[MobileContent]

I guess he needs a another bottle or more ear medicine.

Never liked this guy since his son popped off some cop on Thonglor.

[Local Drunk]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

"The people have the democratic right to protest."

True, except when their protest includes physically preventing other citizens from exercising their right to vote (the core of what democracy means).

The protests were a fundamentally non-democratic--actually, anti-democratic--in aim and action.

No.

What suthep did in blocking elections was wrong.

The protests themselves were a democratic expression of anger at the arrogant lords and ladies of misrule that was the last PT govt.

I disagree Blues... political parties in Thailand have no political agenda or real grass roots cause. They are formed and then bartered an sold by the person " lords and ladies of misrule" for the highest price of compliance. Political parties in Thailand are not political. They have no goal and there is no agenda save that for their own bank accounts. They are something to be bought and sold.

I say he did a good thing.

[Alwyn]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

Actually the people do not have the right to protest now. The country is still under martial law and probably for the very reason that the dictator will not have people protesting

[Bluespunk]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

Actually the people do not have the right to protest now. The country is still under martial law and probably for the very reason that the dictator will not have people protesting

I did say as part of democracy.

[jayboy]

Excellent post.

Your logic is hard to argue with. Although it is debatable how long the Red Shirt movement would last without Thaksin. The same hypothetical question could be asked about what effect Hitler's removal in the early 1930s would have had on the Nazi Party. How much influence do charismatic personalities have, as opposed to the ideologies they espouse.

Unrelated to the content of your post; allow me to suggest that you use the space bar after your full stops.

I don't really believe in the great man theory of history. We now know from the most reputable historians that apart from the early blitzkrieg years of WW2 Hitler was an unmitigated disaster for the German war effort. He was however the product of social forces and the depression,and it's entirely possible the same forces would have produced another fuhrer but with more grip and resilience - resulting in an Axis victory or a negotiated settlement.

Thaksin simply exploited a political opportunity that others neglected. If the Democrats had been less hopeless they could have achieved power by reducing dependence on the tired old elites and appealing more directly to the Thai people.In short if Thaksin had never existed someone else would have exploited the same "populist" approach.

[seajae]

So what he's saying is 12 cases of Chateau Petrus can buy a Thai military PM?

actually I think he is saying he would sell his soul for 12 cases of Petrus and has, many times over and will continue to do so into the future

[culicine]

Vietnam gained most from the coup, with international tourists up 21% in the first 6 months of 2014.

Too early to have exact statistics about investments, but these will be up too.

Yes a friend of mine works for flight centre in Sydney and this time of year they average 50-70 bookings a week in their busy city office to Thailand.

She said her agency sold 15 tickets a fall of 65% on last year and its constant.

Not just a bad week.

Their High season won't materialise *(if this trend is global in western countries)

That may or may not be the average scenario. My flight back from Perth last week was completely booked. Not one spare seat.

[Robespiere]

Vietnam gained most from the coup, with international tourists up 21% in the first 6 months of 2014.

Too early to have exact statistics about investments, but these will be up too.

Yes a friend of mine works for flight centre in Sydney and this time of year they average 50-70 bookings a week in their busy city office to Thailand.

She said her agency sold 15 tickets a fall of 65% on last year and its constant.

Not just a bad week.

Their High season won't materialise *(if this trend is global in western countries)

That may or may not be the average scenario. My flight back from Perth last week was completely booked. Not one spare seat.

Completely booked because Thai have halved the number of flights from Perth to Bangkok.

[ratcatcher]

So what he's saying is 12 cases of Chateau Petrus can buy a Thai military PM?

Well, that largely depends on the grape and the year, perhaps he'll go for the 2000 Pomerol at over £42,000 a case pf 12.

[Local Drunk]

So what he's saying is 12 cases of Chateau Petrus can buy a Thai military PM?

Well, that largely depends on the grape and the year, perhaps he'll go for the 2000 Pomerol at over £42,000 a case pf 12.

Buy me!

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Excellent post.
Your logic is hard to argue with. Although it is debatable how long the Red Shirt movement would last without Thaksin. The same hypothetical question could be asked about what effect Hitler's removal in the early 1930s would have had on the Nazi Party. How much influence do charismatic personalities have, as opposed to the ideologies they espouse.
Unrelated to the content of your post; allow me to suggest that you use the space bar after your full stops.

I don't really believe in the great man theory of history. We now know from the most reputable historians that apart from the early blitzkrieg years of WW2 Hitler was an unmitigated disaster for the German war effort. He was however the product of social forces and the depression,and it's entirely possible the same forces would have produced another fuhrer but with more grip and resilience - resulting in an Axis victory or a negotiated settlement.

Thaksin simply exploited a political opportunity that others neglected. If the Democrats had been less hopeless they could have achieved power by reducing dependence on the tired old elites and appealing more directly to the Thai people.In short if Thaksin had never existed someone else would have exploited the same "populist" approach.

So your saying that it's a given lots of folks have the same morals (lack of) as the paymaster.

[jayboy]

Excellent post.

Your logic is hard to argue with. Although it is debatable how long the Red Shirt movement would last without Thaksin. The same hypothetical question could be asked about what effect Hitler's removal in the early 1930s would have had on the Nazi Party. How much influence do charismatic personalities have, as opposed to the ideologies they espouse.

Unrelated to the content of your post; allow me to suggest that you use the space bar after your full stops.

I don't really believe in the great man theory of history. We now know from the most reputable historians that apart from the early blitzkrieg years of WW2 Hitler was an unmitigated disaster for the German war effort. He was however the product of social forces and the depression,and it's entirely possible the same forces would have produced another fuhrer but with more grip and resilience - resulting in an Axis victory or a negotiated settlement.

Thaksin simply exploited a political opportunity that others neglected. If the Democrats had been less hopeless they could have achieved power by reducing dependence on the tired old elites and appealing more directly to the Thai people.In short if Thaksin had never existed someone else would have exploited the same "populist" approach.

So your saying that it's a given lots of folks have the same morals (lack of) as the paymaster.

In the politest possible way it might be more productive for you to engage in discussion with someone else or even on another forum - where you can rant simplistically against your "enemies".

[Alwyn]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

Actually the people do not have the right to protest now. The country is still under martial law and probably for the very reason that the dictator will not have people protesting

I did say as part of democracy.

Fair comment

[Smokemachine]

He is partly right. PT will win the election in future.

[phantomfiddler]

The man is insane, he is a fool and he has a fools, face !

[BoristheBlade]

Thaksin is at the moment lying back on his sofa in his luxury penthouse in Dubai, with a big daft smile on his face.

Watching the car crash General taking Thailand to the brink.

I am sure even He ( Thaksin) can't believe what he is seeing and reading.

[MaxLee]

Thaksin is at the moment lying back on his sofa in his luxury penthouse in Dubai, with a big daft smile on his face.

Watching the car crash General taking Thailand to the brink.

I am sure even He ( Thaksin) can't believe what he is seeing and reading.

Yep, he's laughing his behind off, how the nation and its children, will little by little be military brainwashed into backwards old school dogma without realizing,...

...., that's the reason why the poverty stricken majority will fall for the same bull crap populist policies again and again and again, for the ages...

[Commerce]

Who's actually and truly interested in anything Chalerm says nowadays? His crappy dim wit statements are no longer amusing, the guy is always crashed out, and was, and anything he says is a matter of no consequence now, because he has lost any control of events he ever had.

I am simply not amused. He begging for a bit of attention, as he has been for the last 2 weeks. About time he retired gracefully, if he can even comprehend what graceful means, which I very much doubt!

Time to clap the trap shut Chalerm, and drink yourself into oblivious happiness. No change there though, neither.

[outre99]

The thai people have been robbed twice by coups and their demroracy shredded along with the constitution .

The yellow elite propaganda machine while working overtime at the beginning of this latest farce but now the wheels are falling off and the people are starting to wake up that this latest coup is of no benefit to them and it's just the same old grab for power that they can't win legit so they take by force

Unfortunately for the yellows the ones they refer to as buffalo brains are not quite that stupid and love their demroracy and their elected leaders who win time and time again via the ballot box.

Preventing them from voting then taking away their elected leader in yingluck has the exact opposite effect on the people on which the yellow elite desire .

Hold an election tomorrow and the PTP would walk in and the junta knows it that's why anywhere yingluck goes she is closely monitored because they know how popular she is.

You know the people are wearing thin of this government when you have seen the press over the last couple of weeks asking a little bit harder questions of the government and the angry no responsive answers they are receiving .

Koh Tao is a big player in all of thus as the PM has thrown his weight behind the RTP which is looking very shaky.

The thai people have been robbed twice continuously by corrupt PTP governments and their democracy shredded along with the constitution by blatant opportunism and cronyism of the same .

The yellow elite red propaganda machine while working overtime at the beginning of this latest farce for the last 10 years could only reach the least educated and informed population of Thailand.

but now the wheels are falling off and the people are starting to wake up that this latest coup is of no benefit to them and it's just the same old grab for power that they can't win legit so they take by force

is actually trying to solve the nation's problems however awkwardly and say so in a poll after poll giving their support to the current government.

Unfortunately for the yellows reds the ones they refer to as buffalo brains followers are not quite that stupid and love their wouldn't know actual democracy when it hit them in the face

and their elected leaders who win time and time again via the ballot box only do so through the broken electoral system, on the strength of the cult of personality of one man, and the shortsighted populist giveaways to their shortsighted base to the detriment of the future of the whole country and future generations.

Preventing them from voting then taking away their elected, incompetent, and corrupt leader in yingluck has the exact opposite effect on the people on which the yellow elite desire saved the country from the disastrous economic, trade, and social policies, not to mention saving the national treasure from being completely looted by the red gang at the top.

Hold an election tomorrow under the same perverted and hijacked political system and the PTP would walk in since they were the ones doing the perversion.

and the junta knows it that's why anywhere yingluck goes she is closely monitored because they know how popular she is for no reason at all, which speak volumes of the red political machine and their followers.

You know the people are wearing thin of relieved that this government is actually focused on governing and solving real problems.

when you have seen the press over the last couple of weeks asking a little bit harder questions of the government and the angry no responsive answers they are receiving . Because they are impatient and expect the government to deliver results forgetting that the current guys had only a few months to dig out of the hole that the red governments spent years digging.

Koh Tao is a big player in all of thus as the PM has thrown his weight behind the RTP which is looking very shaky. This is the only reasonable point in the whole post.