Parents say their sons are innocent but beaten to confess

[Larry001]

Being forced into confession, l don't think would surprise too many of us. A worker from Myamar; what an easy target for the 'keystone cops'

[jdinasia]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

You're absolutely right everyone should boycott Thailand until the truth is revealed. That should go for all the expats ... time they stopped moaning about things and took action by leaving.

I am quite happy with my life in Thailand. I plan on visiting KT on my next long break from work to visit friends.

You are welcome to stay away though.

to visit friends?

and which friends are these....bar owners?..farang business owners/partners?...policemen?

as stated by others it seems likely you or your friends have some financial interests on KT which seems to be overriding your moral compass

LOL..

As I have stated I have no connection to the people that you conspiracy theorists are pointing at.

Feel free to visit Thailand and the island and see for yourself.

[morpho]

This is really a conundrum for me. Although I have doubt that these guys are the guilty ones. I haven't seen any physical evidence made public to indicate that they were beaten into a confession by the police. And that would only leave intense verbal interrogation to get a confession out of them and it would seem that they caved in quite easily if there were not badly physically beaten. I recognize that these guys are young and not in their home country but it seems that you just would not confess to such a heinous crime if you were really not involved. I just don't know what to think about the whole affair anymore.

If someone put a plastic bag over your head you would confess to raping your own mother to make it stop. very easy to torture someone and leave no marks. they do not know the Thai language, the interpreter was a freaked food vendor. The one kid still has a bruise mark on his chest but amazingly the three doctors could not see it but his lawyer could.

I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

[marcusd]

This all over the UK press. Guardian running with it.

It's all over the news all over the world. Australia, Germany, French News, Euronews, AlJazeera. This is NOT going to die down despite what Thailand thinks is the norm. BIG things are starting to change. Like an Aircraft carrier turning at sea. It takes tiome but once she starts to move there is no stopping her

[bertty]

This is really a conundrum for me. Although I have doubt that these guys are the guilty ones. I haven't seen any physical evidence made public to indicate that they were beaten into a confession by the police. And that would only leave intense verbal interrogation to get a confession out of them and it would seem that they caved in quite easily if there were not badly physically beaten. I recognize that these guys are young and not in their home country but it seems that you just would not confess to such a heinous crime if you were really not involved. I just don't know what to think about the whole affair anymore.

If someone put a plastic bag over your head you would confess to raping your own mother to make it stop. very easy to torture someone and leave no marks. they do not know the Thai language, the interpreter was a freaked food vendor. The one kid still has a bruise mark on his chest but amazingly the three doctors could not see it but his lawyer could.

I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

Do you walk around with your nuts hanging out all day long ?

If someone was to kick them black and blue how would anyone notice ? especially if you were under police supervision every time you were in public.

More of your body is not on show in public than is. Do you really struggle to understand that ?.

[btunes]

Are lie detectors units still being used today?...reliable?.. Did they use??......Perhaps the Thais have a Pant Tip knock off that gets results

[Baerboxer]

Look at those simple people. Have they brought up their sons to become rapists and murderers??

I refuse to believe it.

Please keep posting, so the two guys (together with Hannah and David) are never forgotten!!

Does any parent bring their children up to be ?

Did the parents of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and all those serial killers that materialized bring their offspring up to become so evil?

Of course not.

You can believe whatever you want. My dear old mum believed you shouldn't vote for a politician whose eyes were to close together, made then look dishonest she thought. Each to their own.

Point being, parents aren't always responsible for the actions of the their offspring, certainly not when the kids are adults, living away from home.

Too much speculation has led to some becoming convinced who is guilty and who are innocent based on nothing but words and stories.

Do you have any actual evidence that the 2 suspects didn't do it, or were not in some way involved?

I really hope the truth, and the whole truth, is discovered in this horrific murder. That all those involved in the crime, or in any attempting to cover up or pervert the course of justice are exposed, prosecuted and if convicted, given appropriate sentences not the usual smack on the wrist telling off.

But, I think that will be very lucky to happen.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Baerboxer

[marcusd]

Myanmar just resported that a Burmese reporter was 'shot whilst trying to escape'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-29758329

It would be funy if it wasn't so sad. Like we all never saw 'The Great Escape'

Myanmar Human rights protectionism is unlikely offer much support for 2 hapless victims of misjustice in Thailand.

Everyone, including Thai's I speak to seem to feel the deed was perpetrated by the son of local bar and friends. Even Thai's are in agreemet its a fitup.

Why did it take that lad so long to hand himself into the police if he was innocent?

Is it just me or is thailand fast becoming a nation of murderers? Or perhaps it always was but now it's coming to international attention?

Is murder of foreigners allowed under thai culture?

I think it is.

I feel it is Thailand's misguided apprehension that they are the world of tourism mecca and that tourism will ALWAYS rebound. Has not happened so far. Will not happen again. The tourism money has brought with it loads of corruption and greed and GET IT now syndrome. Well get it now, will be get it have it GONE syndrome because of the actions.

You must nurture business and keep it happening for good. WORD of MOUTH is very important and can also be a downfall as I feel is starting. Thailand has become arrogant and this case is highlighting that arrogance which will only look good to the Thai public not overseas markets. AND even in Thailand that is misguided as many Thais feel this is bad but think it will pass. I am not so sure it will pass easily.

[bongoz]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

How about just...

BOYCOTT THAILAND!!! until justice has been done.

[bongoz]

some heavy accusations being made elsewhere

Where? Give us a clue?

Have a look at Andy Hall on twitter

Mr Hall would sell his mother to get another 5 minutes in the limelight!!

So he's just like you then...

Useless and meaningless post!!

[Baerboxer]

Yes, the parents are correct in saying their sons are innocent, and incorrect in saying they feel the Thai system will grant their sons justice. The jig is up. The cards have been played. The police have already made up their minds, and I suspect so has the judge. Life in prison is a reasonable thing to expect in this case. But, the unfortunate part, is the sentence will be imposed on the wrong guys. They are innocent as the day is long. The swine families are being protected.

"The police have already made up their minds, and I suspect so has the judge"

Whereas you're keeping a totally open mind so you can make an objective decision once all the evidence is presented, including the report of the British Police officers.

[sweatalot]

I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

" just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession"

Read #72

[jomcondo]

Anyone with half a brain could read between the lines a few weeks back when

1. The cops stated the Myanmar boys were in a "safe house" (TORTURE TIME)

2. the UK embassy offered to send CCTV specialists (they spotted something)

[stephen terry]

Look at those simple people. Have they brought up their sons to become rapists and murderers??

I refuse to believe it.

Please keep posting, so the two guys (together with Hannah and David) are never forgotten!!

Does any parent bring their children up to be ?

Did the parents of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and all those serial killers that materialized bring their offspring up to become so evil?

Of course not.

You can believe whatever you want. My dear old mum believed you shouldn't vote for a politician whose eyes were to close together, made then look dishonest she thought. Each to their own.

Point being, parents aren't always responsible for the actions of the their offspring, certainly not when the kids are adults, living away from home.

Too much speculation has led to some becoming convinced who is guilty and who are innocent based on nothing but words and stories.

Do you have any actual evidence that the 2 suspects didn't do it, or were not in some way involved?

The actual evidence has to be judged as beyond reasonable doubt to convict. It works both ways. The RTP has to provide this (satisfactory evidence) to the prosecutor for the case to go to trial. None of us have any 'actual' evidence to say they did or didn't or were or were not involved, that's clear.

What the majority of posters are questioning are the many contradictory reports by the RTP posted in the media. I would suggest that's plenty of circumstantial evidence to weaken the RTP's case. The one outstanding aspect that has not been mentioned outside this forum is the motive for the brutal murders. I would expect the Brit police to already have identified the killer's likely profile - in layman's terms, a crime of passion; in this case rage/rejection are likely candidates re the female victim. Nothing I have read or seen in the reenactment indicates that the B2 had this motivation, only (as alleged) lust. That's my opinion - and I accept I could be wrong.

[morpho]

This is really a conundrum for me. Although I have doubt that these guys are the guilty ones. I haven't seen any physical evidence made public to indicate that they were beaten into a confession by the police. And that would only leave intense verbal interrogation to get a confession out of them and it would seem that they caved in quite easily if there were not badly physically beaten. I recognize that these guys are young and not in their home country but it seems that you just would not confess to such a heinous crime if you were really not involved. I just don't know what to think about the whole affair anymore.

If someone put a plastic bag over your head you would confess to raping your own mother to make it stop. very easy to torture someone and leave no marks. they do not know the Thai language, the interpreter was a freaked food vendor. The one kid still has a bruise mark on his chest but amazingly the three doctors could not see it but his lawyer could.

I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

Do you walk around with your nuts hanging out all day long ?

If someone was to kick them black and blue how would anyone notice ? especially if you were under police supervision every time you were in public.

More of your body is not on show in public than is. Do you really struggle to understand that ?.

Do you really struggle with understanding English?

If you read my posts correctly, I'm just saying that the physical evidence of some kind of torture has not been clearly evident. And the guys should clearly state to their parents and lawyers (who they apparently can speak freely to) what took place. Even if there is no physical evidence, a complete and accurate description of what happened would give them more credibility in their assertions and help in their defense.

There…I've said it twice so you can hopefully understand.

[rkidlad]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

You're absolutely right everyone should boycott Thailand until the truth is revealed. That should go for all the expats ... time they stopped moaning about things and took action by leaving.

I am quite happy with my life in Thailand. I plan on visiting KT on my next long break from work to visit friends.

You are welcome to stay away though.

I am shocked by this comment. You have friends?

[arrowsdawdle]

This is really a conundrum for me. Although I have doubt that these guys are the guilty ones. I haven't seen any physical evidence made public to indicate that they were beaten into a confession by the police. And that would only leave intense verbal interrogation to get a confession out of them and it would seem that they caved in quite easily if there were not badly physically beaten. I recognize that these guys are young and not in their home country but it seems that you just would not confess to such a heinous crime if you were really not involved. I just don't know what to think about the whole affair anymore.

They probably weren't afraid of the RTP. They may have been afraid the RTP would release them to a fate similar to what the Britons faced.

[mehoo]

With all the so called evidence that the police say they have against the accused and wrapping up the so called "perfect investigation" . There is one odd fact that sticks in my mind whenever I read anything concerning this sorry situation . I raise the question why is it that at no time have the police ever done any fingerprinting on any of the items of evidence. No fingerprint was done on the damaged blood covered phone that the police first said belonged to the young lady victim. Then the next day changed their story and said it belonged to the young man.

The same goes for the damaged phone( no fingerprinting carried out) the police said they found (wrapped in plastic) close to where the 2 Burmese guys lived. Surely one would assume that it would be standard police procedure to check all evidence for fingerprints , "wouldn't it ? " perhaps the RTP do not yet have the expertise or know how to do fingerprint analysis.

It will be interesting to see if when the matter goes to court if the police will tender as evidence 2 separate damaged mobile phones. 1 covered in blood (whose blood type we don't know because it also seems no blood testing was also done on that phone)

2 . The other damaged phone they said was found discarded in bushes very close to the arrested 2 Burmese guys room where they lived.

[anon7867763]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

How about just...

BOYCOTT THAILAND!!! until justice has been done.

Pretty stupid idea, if we boycott every country because of 1 injustice wher do we go ? I suggest you take a one way ticket to the North Pole

[Lite Beer]

Parents visit Koh Tao murder suspects

SURAT THANI: Relatives yesterday (October 24) met with the two Myanmar suspects in the Koh Tao tourist murders for the first time since their arrest three weeks ago.

Afterward, they gave vivid accounts of violent death threats that the suspects claimed police made to force confessions to crimes that they now deny.

Tun Tun Htike and his wife Zaw Aye Maung, the parents of Win Zaw Htun, and Phu Shwe Nu and Thien Shwe Aug, the mother and uncle of Zaw Lin, visited the men for more than two hours at the prison on Koh Samui in Surat Thani province.

Nine people accompanying them to the prison included representatives of the Myanmar embassy, the National Human Rights Commission of Thailand and Lawyers Council of Thailand.

The two migrant workers are charged with killing Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, whose bodies were found on Sai Ree beach on Koh Tao on September 15. They are also charged with raping Ms Withderidge.

Tun Tun Htike said after the meeting that his son confirmed in tears that he was innocent and that police had tortured him to confess that he and Zaw Lin had killed the two British tourists.

"I hope for justice from the Thai judicial process for my son,” he said.

Tun Tun Htike gave more shocking details of the meeting with his son in an exclusive interview with DVB.

"The interrogators told them to confess to the crime, and threatened to cut off their limbs, put them in a bag and dump them in a river if they did not,'' DVB quoted him as saying.

"The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tyre, pour petrol on it, and set it alight," the father said. "My son said they were terrified and confessed. But now that we [their parents and Myanmar officials] are present, they can speak the truth — that they did not commit the murder.

"My son also told me that the police threatened to use tasers on them."

The parents and those accompanying them later lodged a complaint in writing with the Office of the Attorney-General through the office in Samui district. The evidence includes letters signed by the two suspects, their mothers, and the lawyers for the embassy and council.

Theerawut Prammahant, deputy chief of the Samui state prosecution office, said authorities there would forward it to the head office in Bangkok as soon as possible.

He said public prosecutors would look at all the evidence in the interest of fairness to both police and defendants.

The relatives arrived in Bangkok on Wednesday (October 22) and travelled to Koh Samui on Thursday evening (October 23).

The two suspects, aged 21, from Rakhine state were arrested on October 2. Police have said they have DNA evidence that links the pair to the crimes. However, prosecutors who examined the 300-page investigative report said they needed more detail before they could decide whether the case could proceed.

The two suspects formally withdrew their confessions on Tuesday (October 21) when they met two lawyers from the Lawyers Council at the prison.

The council on Wednesday called for state prosecutors not to rush to make a decision on an indictment until they had evidence claimed by the suspects to counter the police allegations.

Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwon said it was normal for suspects to recant confessions but in this case he did not expect any problem because authorities were handling it in compliance with the law.

The police investigation into the Koh Tao killings has been widely criticised at home and abroad. The original crime scene was trampled, numerous people were named as possible suspects, and nearly 300 people made to take DNA tests.

However, the speed with which the DNA tests on the suspects were completed, compared with those on other people, has led to calls for the tests to be independently checked.

The British government became sufficiently concerned that it asked to help with the case. A team of British police officers is expected to arrive in Thailand this coming week but local authorities say they will be here only as observers.

-- Phuket News 2014-10-25

[scorecard]

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John Thailand John.

I just gotta confirm something.

You are satisfied with the evidence released by the Police. You have absolutely no reason to doubt them, whether it be for this shaky case or the reputation they have built up as a whole.

I have gone through my life with a healthy contempt of conspiracy theories. I have lived in Thailand for 13 years. There is an enormous shadow of a doubt in this case. Most things start as 'RUMOURS' until they are corroborated. The Police won't corroborate. So these remain rumours for now. It seems like the whole country is abuzzz with rumours.

You say that conspiracy theorists jump from one point to the next when something is disproven. Thats true. But seems like the Police have been doing the same thing, changing the points that have been picked out.

The fact that a forensic pathologist was never used at the crime scene and that members of the public, some that were later suspects, were all over the scene suggests the DNA evidence may be useless, tampered with. The Police have tampered with evidence in the past.

Do you think the Thai Police don't beat suspects? Being seen earlier in the evening near the scene is damning evidence?

Why do I bother? You are going to deflect somehow, ignoring all of this and I can't be bothered wasting my time making this post more comprehensive.

You are welcome to your opinion mate, I just don't fully understand why you are so vehemently convinced of it.

I'll admit that I can't know for sure the Burmen didn't do it, but everything surrounding this case makes it so highly doubtful.

But you seem so sure.

Small additional example: the recent hideous crime when a young Thai man raped and killed a 13 / 14 year old girl on a train and then threw her body out of the window. There was video footage of part of the police interrogation shown on Thai TV, including when a senior police officer came up behind the boy and smacked him across the back of his head.

Not exactly brutal torture of the suspect but inappropriate, breaking police interrogation rules and violating human rights laws. All seen on Thai TV news.

[chrisinth]

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Look at those simple people. Have they brought up their sons to become rapists and murderers??

I refuse to believe it.

Please keep posting, so the two guys (together with Hannah and David) are never forgotten!!

As you say, look at these simple people. For them to make the statements they did at the press conference without heavy coaching is highly improbable. So the legal circus begins in earnest, where presentation becomes more important than actual facts, where twisted words mean more than real evidence.

For clarification, if the above seems cold hearted, I strongly believe there is something terribly wrong with the investigation to date and the investigation needs to go a lot deeper. It may be possible that these two lads were present in their drunken state and got involved with something, it may be that they were ordered to do something, it may be a complete stitch-up.

All I am hoping for is that the real truth about this heinous crime will be uncovered in the full.

[Elmer Gantry]

Over 75 years my Parents said same about me when I rob a liquor store but I killed no one.

I believe the police they did it

To many Farangs hate the Police and the Army and the rest I understand they did not like their home counties either

I will pray for their evil soul tomorrow

Don't forget the holy water,how many Hail Mary's will we need?

[bertty]

Do you walk around with your nuts hanging out all day long ?I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

If someone was to kick them black and blue how would anyone notice ? especially if you were under police supervision every time you were in public.

More of your body is not on show in public than is. Do you really struggle to understand that ?.

Do you really struggle with understanding English?

If you read my posts correctly, I'm just saying that the physical evidence of some kind of torture has not been clearly evident. And the guys should clearly state to their parents and lawyers (who they apparently can speak freely to) what took place. Even if there is no physical evidence, a complete and accurate description of what happened would give them more credibility in their assertions and help in their defense.

There…I've said it twice so you can hopefully understand.

I understand English very well thank you.

Not quite sure I understand what ' physical evidence of some kind of torture has been clearly evident ' means.

And I expect they have given clear discriptions to their parents and their defense.

And I doubt their parents nor their defense has any wish to degrade the boys by telling the public exactly what happened.

Or are you so special that you feel you should be told ever sordid detail.

[mehoo]

With all the so called evidence that the police say they have against the accused and wrapping up the so called "perfect investigation" . There is one odd fact that sticks in my mind whenever I read anything concerning this sorry situation . I raise the question why is it that at no time have the police ever done any fingerprinting on any of the items of evidence. No fingerprint was done on the damaged blood covered phone that the police first said belonged to the young lady victim. Then the next day changed their story and said it belonged to the young man.

The same goes for the damaged phone( no fingerprinting carried out) the police said they found (wrapped in plastic) close to where the 2 Burmese guys lived. Surely one would assume that it would be standard police procedure to check all evidence for fingerprints , "wouldn't it ? " perhaps the RTP do not yet have the expertise or know how to do fingerprint analysis.

It will be interesting to see if when the matter goes to court if the police will tender as evidence 2 separate damaged mobile phones. 1 covered in blood (whose blood type we don't know because it also seems no blood testing was also done on that phone)

2 . The other damaged phone they said was found discarded in bushes very close to the arrested 2 Burmese guys room where they lived.

In raising that issue with my posting I hope I have not jogged the RTP memory that they will need to produce 2 damaged mobile phones as evidence at the court hearing, all be it that no fingerprinting was done on either of the phones, maybe that is a bit of ammunition fro the defence to raise

[starkey_rich]

some heavy accusations being made elsewhere

Where? Give us a clue?

Have a look at Andy Hall on twitter

Mr Hall would sell his mother to get another 5 minutes in the limelight!!

Isn't that what Andy Hall does?

Bring things into the light.

At least he has the balls to speak out not just sit at a keyboard.

[scorecard]

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Look at those simple people. Have they brought up their sons to become rapists and murderers??

I refuse to believe it.

Please keep posting, so the two guys (together with Hannah and David) are never forgotten!!

As you say, look at these simple people. For them to make the statements they did at the press conference without heavy coaching is highly improbable. So the legal circus begins in earnest, where presentation becomes more important than actual facts, where twisted words mean more than real evidence.

For clarification, if the above seems cold hearted, I strongly believe there is something terribly wrong with the investigation to date and the investigation needs to go a lot deeper. It may be possible that these two lads were present in their drunken state and got involved with something, it may be that they were ordered to do something, it may be a complete stitch-up.

All I am hoping for is that the real truth about this heinous crime will be uncovered in the full.

well if you want your post to focus on the 'mabees' then be fair and include the other maybe that's been floating around - the son of the local big man.

[metisdead]

A post lobbying for donations has been removed:

22) Members are forbidden to ask for or accept donations, gifts or commissions from other members, any charities must contact support for approval before joining. http://www.thaivisa.com/contact

[phanangpete]

Any more news on the son of the mafia guy?

Apparently he has booked a flight on Jetstar Airlines to fly to Austraila for the 26th Oct .

[AGareth2]

I am still confused by the shoe