Khao San Road Degrees

[roberteales]

I am sure that people who have lived or are living in Thailand will know, it is next to impossible to get a work permit without having a degree first. I am not complaining about this, but have a little question.

Over the past few years, people have obtained their 'degrees' from Khao San Road, myself also very recently. I am looking to apply for a new job as an English teacher. With things getting a lot stricter here right now, what choice would you say is the best one?

I could either work here illegally, OR go through the Ministry of Education and Labour with my new 'degree'.

I would greatly appreciate any advice that anyone might care to give. Incidentally, anyone who gets off on sending in snide remarks and replies to peoples' questions that they post, such as this one, I would appreciate it if you just didn't reply at all. SunbeltAsia is a classic example.

Thank you,

Rob

[huski]

Over the past few years, people have obtained their 'degrees' from Khao San Road, myself also very recently.  I am looking to apply for a new job as an English teacher.  With things getting a lot stricter here right now, what choice would you say is the best one?

I could either work here illegally, OR go through the Ministry of Education and Labour with my new 'degree'.

both are illegal, working without a work permit and using false documents

there was a post from a user that actually signed a document claiming his degree was authentic from HIS SCHOOL. the school aquired the fake degree for him, many of his co workers continued working with the same senerio. the school turned on him one day because he quit unexpectedly. they had leverage because he signed the thai written document that he had aquired the degree and it was authentic. he ended up with a warrant for his arrest and bolted out of thailand to viet nam.

[roberteales]

Hm, well that doesn't appeal to me I don't think.

Cheers

Rob

[adjan jb]

I am sure that people who have lived or are living in Thailand will know, it is next to impossible to get a work permit without having a degree first. I am not complaining about this, but have a little question.

Over the past few years, people have obtained their 'degrees' from Khao San Road, myself also very recently. I am looking to apply for a new job as an English teacher. With things getting a lot stricter here right now, what choice would you say is the best one?

I could either work here illegally, OR go through the Ministry of Education and Labour with my new 'degree'.

I would greatly appreciate any advice that anyone might care to give. Incidentally, anyone who gets off on sending in snide remarks and replies to peoples' questions that they post, such as this one, I would appreciate it if you just didn't reply at all. SunbeltAsia is a classic example.

Thank you,

Rob

Why do you want to teach ? Are you an experienced teacher ? If not, do you think that Thai students need someone like you ?

You'd better use your fake degree in your OWN country. Period.

[roberteales]

Why else would I have to teach here? To earn a crust of course! Actually, to be honest I don't WANT to teach but it's the easiest thing for me to do, which incidentally I have previously done in Malaysia and Indonesia for a total of five years. What about you? Are you a backpacker, turned teacher who, because he has taught here for a while and has a real degree then he looks down on other people wanting to do the same job as him?

You are pathetic, and people like you should not be cluttering up this site with their bullshit!

[p_brownstone]

Why else would I have to teach here? To earn a crust of course! Actually, to be honest I don't WANT to teach but it's the easiest thing for me to do, which incidentally I have previously done in Malaysia and Indonesia for a total of five years.

I don't think you would be a great addition to the staff of any English school in Thailand - nor of any benefit to whoever is allocated you as their "teacher".

Dishonest

Shameless

Unprincipled

Unmotivated

No wonder English teachers here have a poor reputation, although I would like to believe you are nor representative of the genre.

[jauntyjohn]

Now, now, life's too short for such petty little fights.........

[adjan jb]

Why else would I have to teach here? To earn a crust of course! Actually, to be honest I don't WANT to teach but it's the easiest thing for me to do, which incidentally I have previously done in Malaysia and Indonesia for a total of five years. What about you? Are you a backpacker, turned teacher who, because he has taught here for a while and has a real degree then he looks down on other people wanting to do the same job as him?

You are pathetic, and people like you should not be cluttering up this site with their bullshit!

I've almost always been in that field since i gratuated from university. I love my job and as far as i know i do it well, and not only because i (also) have to earn a crust, as you put it, but particularly because i'm cut out for teaching.

I also love very much this country and its people and i think that they need teachers that dedicate themselves to the progress of Thailand.

You can call me pathetic. You can also abuse me too if you think it's fun.

But as one poster put it, you are dishonest/shameless/unprincipled/unmotivated and it's not a very good start for someone willing to become a Teacher.

Best regards.

[Thaiquila]

A person can potentially be a good English teacher without a degree. Having a degree does not guarantee that the person is a good English teacher or that he is in the profession for noble reasons. There are lots of professions where that is true. Doctors and airline pilots are not included in that list. There are other countries where it is possible to work legally as an English teacher. Thailand isn't one of them, so if you want to be an English teacher in Thailand without a degree, it is an unfortunate situation.

[Khutan]

At the end of the day the notion of having a degree means you have done some sort of learning the average punter hasn't.

Yes there is considerable bias towards people with degrees.

Consider also there are schools that will organise things for you if you don't have a degree...... Look for the ads call them and tell them you don't have a degree and can they help.

The other ting is there are g good number of people in the english schools who have saved to them alot of money for a chance at getting a start in life, or are from poor families who are trying the best for their children..... Do you think it is fair to them to be giving them a second-rate education, only for your own personal gain ?

[adjan jb]

A person can potentially be a good English teacher without a degree. Having a degree does not guarantee that the person is a good English teacher or that he is in the profession for noble reasons. There are lots of professions where that is true. Doctors and airline pilots are not included in that list. There are other countries where it is possible to work legally as an English teacher. Thailand isn't one of them, so if you want to be an English teacher in Thailand without a degree, it is an unfortunate situation.

Agreed on this one.

But you can't be a good teacher when you don't want to teach but have to because you're flat broke.

[opalhort]

A person can potentially be a good English teacher without a degree. Having a degree does not guarantee that the person is a good English teacher or that he is in the profession for noble reasons. There are lots of professions where that is true.  Doctors and airline pilots are not included in that list.  There are other countries where it is possible to work legally as an English teacher. Thailand isn't one of them, so if you want to be an English teacher in Thailand without a degree, it is an unfortunate situation.

Agreed on this one.

But you can't be a good teacher when you don't want to teach but have to because you're flat broke.

correct!

think of the Thai students first!

one reason why there are so many Thai people, who have attended English classes, yet are not able to communicate in English is beacause of incompetent people (mostly foreigners) who call themselves "teachers"!

in order to teach you need a pedagogical education!!!!!

opalhort

[ASIC]

I'm sorry, but whatever way you choose, it makes you a criminal. Would you like your own children to be taught rights and wrongs by a criminal?

Would you like your own children to be taught by someone who came her for sex, spend all his money in Nana and now pretends to be a teacher? It may not apply to you, but it apply to quite a lot of "teachers" here.

A lot of these students are not rich, spending a large amount of their time and money to acquire some knowledge and better their chances in life. Anyone giving sub-standard education just for their own benefit is stealing money from kids.

ASIC

[Pink Mist]

When I went to Uni we had a lecturer who was Dr with two degrees from Poland, a brilliant man but absolutely hopeless as teacher.

He had no idea how to structure a lesson and too boot his english was poor, the worst thing was we had him as a tutor so we could never get anything clarified by him because he used to say "you went to the lecture, you should have listened".

So to me a degree is not the recipe for a good instructor.

[huski]

When I went to Uni we had a lecturer who was Dr with two degrees from Poland, a brilliant man but absolutely hopeless as  teacher.

doctor pp has two degrees from poland and one from patpong. he is a remarkable teacher, just dangerous in the bear pit.

[Richard Hall]

in order to teach you need a pedagogical education!!!!!

Sorry, Opalhort but can not agree on this.

There are plenty of people that have undergone a pedagogical education but have NO idea about teaching while others without such an education have a natural talent to educate. Knowledge, devotion, optimism, patience and the ability to never ever carry your own personal problems and frustrations into the classroom and partnering with the students makes a good teacher. One may have an A teaching degree but nevertheless can be a lousy teacher. Eventually, nothing but the success and performance of the students are the only evidence for one's teaching abilities. A GOOD teacher gets a kick out of the progress of his/her students and not the paycheck.

Particularly teaching young students is an extreme demanding and exhausting job but on the other hand can be very very rewarding (NOT financially but through the feedback you receive from the students). It is absolutely NOT the way to make a quick and easy buck with or without a degree.

Actually, to be a DEDICATED teacher here in Thailand you must either be a selfless saint, masochist or insane or better all ot this. In certain situations your pedagogical education certificate may only be good to wipe off the sweat of your forehead in an overcrowded classroom without air condition.

One ask himself/herself objectively whether he/she is actually ready for THIS. If the answer is "no" well, then stay to h... out of the classroom which will surely be to the benefit of everyone in the game with or without holding a pedagogical education.

[opalhort]

in order to teach you need a pedagogical education!!!!!

Sorry, Opalhort but can not agree on this.

There are plenty of people that have undergone a pedagogical education but have NO idea about teaching while others without such an education have a natural talent to educate. Knowledge, devotion, optimism, patience and the ability to never ever carry your own personal problems and frustrations into the classroom and partnering with the students makes a good teacher. One may have an A teaching degree but nevertheless can be a lousy teacher. Eventually, nothing but the success and performance of the students are the only evidence for one's teaching abilities. A GOOD teacher gets a kick out of the progress of his/her students and not the paycheck.

Particularly teaching young students is an extreme demanding and exhausting job but on the other hand can be very very rewarding (NOT financially but through the feedback you receive from the students). It is absolutely NOT the way to make a quick and easy buck with or without a degree.

Actually, to be a DEDICATED teacher here in Thailand you must either be a selfless saint, masochist or insane or better all ot this. In certain situations your pedagogical education certificate may only be good to wipe off the sweat of your forehead in an overcrowded classroom without air condition.

One ask himself/herself objectively whether he/she is actually ready for THIS. If the answer is "no" well, then stay to h... out of the classroom which will surely be to the benefit of everyone in the game with or without holding a pedagogical education.

you've made a good point.

I also have had teachers at school, all of course certified, some very good others lousy. It shows in the grades!

Probably I shouldn't have said "pedagogical education" but pedagogical knowledge or devotion.

Many highly educated teachers just don't know how to teach (make students understand what they talk about)

If you go into teaching for money, FORGET about it, there is no money to be made! The only satisfaction and reward is to see the students progress.

I'm not a teacher. I don't have the gift of teaching, to disseminate knowledge to other people.

Sorry this post is somewhat off topic. To the original poster: DON't buy a degree!!!! It is illegal and unethical.

opalhort

[roberteales]

There are many things in life that EVERYBODY does not want to do, but HAS to do. Kow jai mai khrap?

Me, personally I do not like teaching but I can do it and do it well. I have over five years' experience now and the majority of my past students who could not speak very good English when I started out with them, are now a million times better...because of me! I am not one of those teachers who spends the entire lesson writing on the blackboard and does no speaking, other than 'hello' and 'goodbye'. I am a teacher who speaks to my students, asks them questions, gets them to ask me questions and I teach in a manner that is enjoyable for the students and also beneficial.

I have not posted this topic to blow my own trumpet, but more to let you know that although while teachers with degrees can and do (well, sometimes and sometimes not) make great instructors, but people without a degree, such as myself can be perfectionists as well.

I had a chance to go to University, but I turned it down for the opportunity to travel. And now here I am, a man who ISN'T a sex tourist and has NEVER been one but who simply likes to travel the world.

Adjan jb, I believe it was you who cast the first stone, not myself. People who are educated, such as apparantly yourself, do not and should know better than to, ridicule, make assumptions and abuse people who are asking an intelligent question.

As for ASIC, by myself in your books being a criminal, are you telling me that you have never broken a law in your life? Never paid a bribe to a bent copper? Never been with a prostitute? All of these things are illegal and so would constitute a CRIMINAL act.

You know I'm right, and you know what I am saying makes sense.

[opalhort]

There are many things in life that EVERYBODY does not want to do, but HAS to do.  Kow jai mai khrap?

Me, personally I do not like teaching but I can do it and do it well.  I have over five years' experience now and the majority of my past students who could not speak very good English when I started out with them, are now a million times better...because of me!  I am not one of those teachers who spends the entire lesson writing on the blackboard and does no speaking, other than 'hello' and 'goodbye'.  I am a teacher who speaks to my students, asks them questions, gets them to ask me questions and I teach in a manner that is enjoyable for the students and also beneficial.

I have not posted this topic to blow my own trumpet, but more to let you know that although while teachers with degrees can and do (well, sometimes and sometimes not) make great instructors, but people without a degree, such as myself can be perfectionists as well.

I had a chance to go to University, but I turned it down for the opportunity to travel.  And now here I am, a man who ISN'T a sex tourist and has NEVER been one but who simply likes to travel the world.

Adjan jb, I believe it was you who cast the first stone, not myself.  People who are educated, such as apparantly yourself, do not and should know better than to, ridicule, make assumptions and abuse people who are asking an intelligent question.

As for ASIC, by myself in your books being a criminal, are you telling me that you have never broken a law in your life?  Never paid a bribe to a bent copper?  Never been with a prostitute?  All of these things are illegal and so would constitute a CRIMINAL act.

You know I'm right, and you know what I am saying makes sense.

teaching is NOT a job you HAVE TO DO! You need devotion!

If you don't like teaching then DON'T DO IT.

To buy a degree and work without WP is illegal here in Thailand. Period. Fullstop!

You may call yourself a "teacher" but face the fact that your are NOT a teacher!

opalhort

[Georgie-Porgie]

To buy a degree and work without WP is illegal here in Thailand. Period. Fullstop!

You may call yourself a "teacher" but face the fact that your are NOT a teacher!

opalhort

There are two teachers at Chiang Mai University who have taught there for well over 10 years.

They are a married British couple, and neither has a degree. They are also here as Missionaries for the Jehovah's Witnesses, but don't get a salary from the JWs and never proselytize at school, under any circumstances.

Everyone at CMU really loves them and thinks that they are the best teachers at CMU because of their years of experience with Thai students.

Also, they "teach" the courses to new teachers, year after year during their own free time, at no cost.

When they first started, there was no need for a degree, and when the rules were changed, there were given a special waver because of all their experience.

The rules have gotten stricter and stricter, so finally they are being given the boot this year. I just found out a few days ago.

I wonder, does opalhort think that they are, "NOT teachers"?

[opalhort]

I wonder, does opalhort think that they are, "NOT teachers"?

they may be teachers by trade, good or bad - I have no way to judge them.

point is: a foreigner wanting to teach in Thailand requires proper certification! A bought degree won't do!

Missionaries are here under quite a different catagory, they are not regarded as teachers yet many if not most of them teach languages here.

Some may be good at it and a very few may even be very good at it, yet it is illegal in Thailand to teach without proper certification.

opalhort

[ASIC]

As for ASIC, by myself in your books being a criminal, are you telling me that you have never broken a law in your life? Never paid a bribe to a bent copper? Never been with a prostitute? All of these things are illegal and so would constitute a CRIMINAL act.

You know I'm right, and you know what I am saying makes sense.

If you do something against the law you are a criminal! That's the definition of the word. You know I am right.

And No, I have not yet paid a bent copper or been with a prostitute. And frankly I am appaled with the number of people who come here and do stupid sh#t they would never ever do at home. The law is the law! If you are unhappy with the law, join politics and have it changed.

ASIC

[Teach]

"Time gentlemen please"

All this back stabbing and mud flinging. Is this all that some of you use this forum for?

Allow me to add my two penneth worth.

Firstly, up till now I have been happy just to sit on the sidelines reading all this very entertaining infighting, and not just on this, but other expat sites also, much better than UBC. This will be my very first input to any of them.

Firstly, I love the two fighting cats icon, very apt.

Second, Robert, NO, a fake degree will only make a fake... of you. A mans integrity and honesty is all he has to bargain with come judgment day. If teaching here is all you can think of to do ( experience accepted) then perhaps broaden your horizons. Or, take a teaching course (about 16weeks) and start where that qualification will surffice.

As for the "I'm better than you because I have a degree education", some thoughts experience from that quater.

1. Fact. globally, especially the western world and particularly here, 50% of all degree credentials were attained through CHEATING, at both study (copying) and in the exam room. If this form of skulduggery was criminalized, where would we house all the prisoners!!!

2. Fact, Generally degree educated individuals are not much more than academics or book worms, with little or no practical experience only theory. For me (a business man and employer of 25 yrs) I will always steer toward practical experience before academic Q's. except in the cases of CFO etc, where the company can be held liable in the event of fraud if not qualified to hold the position, and then theres....

3. Don't forget ENRON, WORLDCOM, etc,etc, etc, all these super slick Stamford and Harvard types armed with their degrees have proved to be the most dangerous individuals on the planet, singularly driven by greed at the cost of many people not SMART enough to notice what they're up to, and left with no livelyhood...because they have no degree. An imbalance there I feel.

And lastly, other than the exception above, I do not feel it is neccessary to hold degree status in order to pass on knowledge - in any field. I class myself and have been a salesman all my life. In my experience I am yet to meet a salesman with a degree who could sell bread in a famine.

Oh and one last point... a very good friend of mine ( with a double major from University) has been recruited by a Thai Phd to teach economics at a top 3 University here in Bkk. The administration of that university however, are trying to thwart that recruitment on the grounds of him being too dangerous for Thai students. Knowledge isn't always a good thing ...apparently.

No mud slinging there I hope, just an experienced member of society.

Teach.

[Jeepz]

You don't have to go to school to learn. You don't have to have a degree to teach. Georgie-Porgie's example of the two Jehovah Witnesses at CMU is good example of the latter. Most all of us have plenty of experience with the former.

I'd be a bit more lenient toward roberteales if he had at least spent some time as a college student. He may actually be just fine as an instructor, we have no way of knowing. He thinks he is. Few people think they are lousy at what they do.

He says students he had before are much better off now. We can only wonder what they actually learned and how it would compare to someone that was actually qualified to do the job.

But he has basically decided this already. He wanted to see the world, an understandable motivation, and decided not to attend college. Fine. Now he's running out of moolah and is picking the easier road again. Fake degree and teach a language he speaks. No degree, No ESL training. It really is very "iffy".

He really needs to suck it up, go back home, get his degree, then return to teach or do whatever. If he has no patience with being a student himself, then work and get the moolah to return. He seems to be determined to be a dodgy young man and after awhile he will end up being a dodgy old man that has spent his time getting by on the edges. Something to look forward too, isn't it?

Jeepz

[Mig15]

Until Thailand gets it’s act together to stop people who are not teachers working as teachers some people will exploit the possibilities. Is it a criminal act to break a law that is not enforced? If the state itself will not or cannot bring itself to enforce it’s own laws should people have any respect for them or it?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

When I went to Uni we had a lecturer who was Dr with two degrees from Poland, a brilliant man but absolutely hopeless as  teacher.

doctor pp has two degrees from poland and one from patpong. he is a remarkable teacher, just dangerous in the bear pit.

Bloody dangerous anywhere Huski ... and most particularly when in drink ...

[Guest IT Manager]

FWIW over the years we have seen many versions of "the English teacher" come and go through here, and of course ajarn.com.The choice, at the end of the day, about whether you teach with a Kao San Degree, is taken by the school, if they know about it, and by you, as a teacher, if they don't.

Last week I paid 5,400 baht for my son to go to extra classes in Maths and Chem. I do a reasonable job with maths, though my chem knowledge is fairly rusted. Why did he need extra classes?

He goes to a good Thai school with a good Mini English Program, but his Thai teachers for Math and Chem are useless. There are no foreign teachers for either subject outside of the MEP, and if there were, one wonders if they would be any better, if they are unqualified.

I detest teaching.

I don't have the patience to deal with inquiring minds. A teacher needs that. It's OK to be hungry for a buck, but without patience, you do no one a service in my opinion, including yourself.

My wife in her quest for teaching skills on the other hand has the enormous patience required to deal with young questioners. She explained to me once, why she prefers teachers working for her, need GOOD qualifications, in teaching, not in anything else. It's a matter of demonstrated commitment.

Look through other posts about teaching in this and other fora. 2 clearly defined groups; 1 has a firm belief that a degree doesn't make a good teacher,which view I happen to agree with, and the other that sees a degree as a measure, not of ones teaching ability, but rather of ones' commitment to a "learning goal". A teacher sets the goals for the class, believe it or not. That's what a curriculum does. It provides focus for the educative experience.

Robert, you need to decide your own forward process here. Do you put your bread ahead of the minds of the student body? Here is why I ask.

A friend of mine has a very small bar and restaurant and his wife, in the same place makes very reasonably priced clothes. In my estimation, they earn in the vicinity of 7,000 baht per month.

Last week he paid 5,000 baht for his 16 year old to do extra classes. Whether we agree with that or not, Thai people see learning as a way forward in life. Their kids don't have to run a restaurant/bar, if they are possessed of the education needed to get them beyond high school and into a better life, and many of them see foreigners as a way to learn English, and see a school employing native English speakers, as being better than a school that doesn't.

At the end of the Kao San Rd degree debate, is that a fact, in all cases? In my opinion, it isn't.

[NedKelly]

My employer was required to submit my academic transcript as wellas my actual degree. The transcript shows detials fo course you studied and the actuall pass mark. So this would be difficult to copy and difficult to pass off as a genuine article.

Going to uni is for your own benefit. Your choice was to travel the world, but it seems now that the time has come for you tomake a decision....if you continue along your current line of thinking you will be fighting the system for the rest of your life. You are obviously a smart person so why not use it.

I went to Uni after some years doing other things. It was my choice and I did it alone with no help fromanyone. I paid all my fees up front and studied part time for years to obtain my education.

So bite the bullet and go to uni......you will benefit and your life will be different.

[adjan jb]

Adjan jb, I believe it was you who cast the first stone, not myself. People who are educated, such as apparantly yourself, do not and should know better than to, ridicule, make assumptions and abuse people who are asking an intelligent question.

Dear Robert

Please read again my 3 posts in this thread and quote each sentence in which i abuse you.

[Georgie-Porgie]

adjan jb, with an avatar like that, you don't need to actually abuse people. The avatar says it all.