Disturbing numbers of Tourist deaths.

[benalibina]

Where are these kids going wrong?

Parents.

[impulse]

I'm Australian. I have been coming to Thailand regularly since 1986 (Since I was twenty-something). I sky-dive ,drink, scuba dive, ride motorbikes..(obviously not at the same time)

Where are these kids going wrong?

They're just on the wrong side of statistics.

99.98% of them go home alive.

[sipi]

I'm Australian. I have been coming to Thailand regularly since 1986 (Since I was twenty-something). I sky-dive ,drink, scuba dive, ride motorbikes..(obviously not at the same time)

Where are these kids going wrong?

They're just on the wrong side of statistics.

99.98% of them go home alive.

The other 0.02% are plain stupid. I would like to use the word "unlucky". but the info is out there these days.

[impulse]

The other 0.02% are plain stupid. I would like to use the word "unlucky". but the info is out there these days.

The problem with that statement is that well more than 0.02% of them do stupid things.

It's only by the grace of God (and being on the right side of statistics) that I survived the stupid stuff I have done, especially when I was young, bulletproof and loaded with beer muscles.

If every tourist who did stupid stuff were to get what the 0.02% get, there wouldn't be many tourists returning home...

And let's face it, a lot of people are reasonable, sane, smart, and in the wrong place at the wrong time. The odds probably improve for them, but some of them just get on the wrong side of statistics.

Edited November 7, 2014 by impulse

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The other 0.02% are plain stupid. I would like to use the word "unlucky". but the info is out there these days.

The problem with that statement is that well more than 0.02% of them do stupid things.

It's only by the grace of God (and being on the right side of statistics) that I survived the stupid stuff I have done, especially when I was young, bulletproof and loaded with beer muscles.

If every tourist who did stupid stuff were to get what the 0.02% get, there wouldn't be many tourists returning home...

And let's face it, a lot of people are reasonable, sane, smart, and in the wrong place at the wrong time. The odds probably improve for them, but some of them just get on the wrong side of statistics.

With Impulse here,

Trying to think of what the Koh Tao pair did that was stupid, nope, can't think of anything.

[sipi]

The other 0.02% are plain stupid. I would like to use the word "unlucky". but the info is out there these days.

The problem with that statement is that well more than 0.02% of them do stupid things.

It's only by the grace of God (and being on the right side of statistics) that I survived the stupid stuff I have done, especially when I was young, bulletproof and loaded with beer muscles.

If every tourist who did stupid stuff were to get what the 0.02% get, there wouldn't be many tourists returning home...

And let's face it, a lot of people are reasonable, sane, smart, and in the wrong place at the wrong time. The odds probably improve for them, but some of them just get on the wrong side of statistics.

There are the ones that simply should know better, and come back in a box.

[Cypress Hill]

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Ayjaydee according to the article 400 Brits die every year in Thailand compared to 50 Aussies so your statement is wrong.

That being said if the figures are true it's alarming for all countries and I'd like to see some official figures of foreign deaths excluding natural causes.

brits dont misbehave in thailand?? lol

Yes but Aussies behave badly in my country (the UK) too. They act as if they invented and refined "partying" and have a manifest RIGHT to be disrespectful and boorish.

I've seen plenty of Australians being put flat on their backs in London and Bangkok alike and not once would a round of applause have been inappropriate

Obviously, I'm not going to tar an entire nationality because of a few <deleted> especially since my fellow Brits can be a handful too; it's just that the Aussies take it to another level

Edited November 7, 2014 by CharlieH

[NanLaew]

I agree that Thailand is the ultimate chance for young Aussie's (or Europeans) to do things they could never do in their homecountry's.

Driving drunk on motorbikes without helmet, openly bringing hookers home, using drugs on beachparty's, buying tranquilizers and whatever medicines they like who are prohibited back home (without doctorsprescription). They can buy themselves out of it when caught by police.

I don't believe any of the three killed in the last year on Koh Tao were doing any of these things.

Nor were any of the people who died in the DeathTown Inn in Chiang Mai.

Nor the couple shot by the policeman in Pai.

Should I go on?

Unless you can't walk on the beach, walk through a town center or sleep in your hotel bed in Australia.

And there you have it. The cherry-picked crimes that get most google hits as well as being perpetually recycled on TV in threads such as this. Threads that like challenge the idea of personal responsibility and foists off misfortune and tragedy on the action (or inaction) of our hosts.

So these people are genuine victims of crime both identified and unidentified. These crimes span the best part of what, 10 or 12 years? Pardon me if I don't google the details right now. So, in that space of time, how many foreigners have visited Thailand and survived to tell the tale?

[AYJAYDEE]

The other 0.02% are plain stupid. I would like to use the word "unlucky". but the info is out there these days.

The problem with that statement is that well more than 0.02% of them do stupid things.

It's only by the grace of God (and being on the right side of statistics) that I survived the stupid stuff I have done, especially when I was young, bulletproof and loaded with beer muscles.

If every tourist who did stupid stuff were to get what the 0.02% get, there wouldn't be many tourists returning home...

And let's face it, a lot of people are reasonable, sane, smart, and in the wrong place at the wrong time. The odds probably improve for them, but some of them just get on the wrong side of statistics.

With Impulse here,

Trying to think of what the Koh Tao pair did that was stupid, nope, can't think of anything.

like everyone else, you dont know everything they did.

[AYJAYDEE]

firstly, the numbers of deaths should be detailed into illness, accidental, old age, murder

Hard to do when the Thai police/authorities habitually lie about foreigners cause of death.

What you can do is consider the deaths of ALL foreigners in Thailand, in which the numbers become frightening.

not as frightening as here

so in 2012,

Thailand:150 deaths out of 948,000 visits equals 1 death for every 6320 visits

Philipines: 68 deaths out of 191,150 visits equals 1 death for every 2811 visits

Vietnam: 54 deaths out of 290,000 visits equals 1 death for every 5370 visits

http://en.wikipedia....the_Philippines

http://en.wikipedia....rism_in_Vietnam

http://en.wikipedia....ism_in_Thailand

[Nignoy]

perhaps because thailand allows young aussies to misbehave more than other countries do. no surprise they get in trouble.

Cobblers!! Australian young people are well known for their extremely bad behaviour,binge drinking for example in schoolies weeks, driving under the influence of alcohol and drugs, what shocked us most was the amount of Australian parents who we experienced encouraging their 15 and 16 year old children and their friends to consum alcohol knowing full well many of them were driving a car, lots of the bad behaviour the children learn off their parents!!

Then maybe thailand should enforce some of its own rules as a basic minimum to save all....

why the hell should they be required to protect these kids from themselves. they wouldnt behave this way at home and if they behave like this in thailand and suffer for it, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[Time Traveller]

If they tighten up the rules, the types of tourists that make up these stats will quit coming. The present situation encourages them to come and their deaths dont scare off tourists that behave themselves.

Care to elaborate? Are you proposing all tourists be banned?

I remember about a year ago of a middle aged respectable Australian lady travel agent who was walking down the street and got stabbed to death in daytime in Phuket. Are you trying to say she was part of the "type of tourist" that had it coming?

Edited November 7, 2014 by Time Traveller

[Thai at Heart]

The overwhelming majority of foreigners that die in violent and/or mysterious circumstances here were either under the influence, had a pre-existing condition, partook of something in excess of what is considered acceptable (or legal), or spent the preponderance of their social life in high-risk areas. These areas and their risks are startlingly similar to the high-risk areas in more developed countries that possibly regulate these areas of risk and probably have better legal protections than Thailand has.

If a foreign kid rents a superbike that he is legally prohibited to do in his home country, drinks twice as much alcohol as he is legally entitled to do in his home country, rents a hooker that he is legally prohibited to do in his home country and subsequently plants him, her and the motorbike ar5e-deep in a baht bus, who are we to condemn the Thai's for allowing his misfortune? You make the same stupid choices at home, the outcome is the same. There are no protections for the stupid.

Absolute nonsense. Car accidents are very high. As is accidental death, I.e. falling off balconies.

None of which can be directly attributed to abuse.

Issue actually is, drink driving is illegal in Thailand, as is renting a vehicle without the right license, international, prostitutes are illegal too.

So, if thailand would simply enforce what it has on its books already the place would instantly get safer, but of course, everything would get less profitable.

Its the wild west for free living. God knows what a truly libertarian would would look like, but I guess pattaya is a start.

[AYJAYDEE]

If they tighten up the rules, the types of tourists that make up these stats will quit coming. The present situation encourages them to come and their deaths dont scare off tourists that behave themselves.

Care to elaborate? Are you proposing all tourists be banned?

I remember about a year ago of a middle aged respectable Australian lady travel agent who was walking down the street and got stabbed to death in daytime in Phuket. Are you trying to say she was part of the "type of tourist" that had it coming?

nope, leave everything as is. its not too dangerous if you use your common sense and behave rationally. as for the anecdotal stabbing cases, those happen in my home country too.

[Thai at Heart]

If they tighten up the rules, the types of tourists that make up these stats will quit coming. The present situation encourages them to come and their deaths dont scare off tourists that behave themselves.

Care to elaborate? Are you proposing all tourists be banned?

I remember about a year ago of a middle aged respectable Australian lady travel agent who was walking down the street and got stabbed to death in daytime in Phuket. Are you trying to say she was part of the "type of tourist" that had it coming?

nope, leave everything as is. its not too dangerous if you use your common sense and behave rationally. as for the anecdotal stabbing cases, those happen in my home country too.

I disagree. It is time to curb the excesses and clean up the coppers. The only way that this type of chaos can be conducted in a safe way is for the corruption to be cleared up.

Don't forget this chaos involving cops effects thais too. Just look at santika. Completely illegal, unregulated, uncontrolled.

Its possible to have fun and be wild without being madness. Clean up the coppers anf it will sort itself out.

[AYJAYDEE]

If they tighten up the rules, the types of tourists that make up these stats will quit coming. The present situation encourages them to come and their deaths dont scare off tourists that behave themselves.

Care to elaborate? Are you proposing all tourists be banned?

I remember about a year ago of a middle aged respectable Australian lady travel agent who was walking down the street and got stabbed to death in daytime in Phuket. Are you trying to say she was part of the "type of tourist" that had it coming?

nope, leave everything as is. its not too dangerous if you use your common sense and behave rationally. as for the anecdotal stabbing cases, those happen in my home country too.

I disagree. It is time to curb the excesses and clean up the coppers. The only way that this type of chaos can be conducted in a safe way is for the corruption to be cleared up.

Don't forget this chaos involving cops effects thais too. Just look at santika. Completely illegal, unregulated, uncontrolled.

Its possible to have fun and be wild without being madness. Clean up the coppers anf it will sort itself out.

if tourists want to come to a country that allows them to do stupid things that they couldnt do at home because of a lax police force here, then I couldnt give a damn. if youre behaving and keeping your wits about you its safe enough.

[Thai at Heart]

If they tighten up the rules, the types of tourists that make up these stats will quit coming. The present situation encourages them to come and their deaths dont scare off tourists that behave themselves.

Care to elaborate? Are you proposing all tourists be banned?

I remember about a year ago of a middle aged respectable Australian lady travel agent who was walking down the street and got stabbed to death in daytime in Phuket. Are you trying to say she was part of the "type of tourist" that had it coming?

nope, leave everything as is. its not too dangerous if you use your common sense and behave rationally. as for the anecdotal stabbing cases, those happen in my home country too.

I disagree. It is time to curb the excesses and clean up the coppers. The only way that this type of chaos can be conducted in a safe way is for the corruption to be cleared up.

Don't forget this chaos involving cops effects thais too. Just look at santika. Completely illegal, unregulated, uncontrolled.

Its possible to have fun and be wild without being madness. Clean up the coppers anf it will sort itself out.

if tourists want to come to a country that allows them to do stupid things that they couldnt do at home because of a lax police force here, then I couldnt give a damn. if youre behaving and keeping your wits about you its safe enough.

You act as though these excesses have no consequence for you. Well, having kids I saw the changes to our town that this excessive bias towards excess caused in the town.

Bars open to 6am, and kids acting like fools everywhere.

If Thailand thinks having bars open till 6 with neon flashing and chicks falling out of themselves with drunks everywhere is what they want, then I am glad I left.

There is a limit. It isn't being enabled by a lax police force , it is being enabled by basic coruption. That has a cost for everyone even though u think it may not.

I just heard a few days ago that an old friends ex wives daughter just got pregnant from a Thai guy at the age of 14. She had been working in a bar in pattaya.

Everything has a consequence, and this level of lawlessness is causing problems for Thai society as a whole.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[AYJAYDEE]

If they tighten up the rules, the types of tourists that make up these stats will quit coming. The present situation encourages them to come and their deaths dont scare off tourists that behave themselves.

Care to elaborate? Are you proposing all tourists be banned?

I remember about a year ago of a middle aged respectable Australian lady travel agent who was walking down the street and got stabbed to death in daytime in Phuket. Are you trying to say she was part of the "type of tourist" that had it coming?

nope, leave everything as is. its not too dangerous if you use your common sense and behave rationally. as for the anecdotal stabbing cases, those happen in my home country too.

I disagree. It is time to curb the excesses and clean up the coppers. The only way that this type of chaos can be conducted in a safe way is for the corruption to be cleared up.

Don't forget this chaos involving cops effects thais too. Just look at santika. Completely illegal, unregulated, uncontrolled.

Its possible to have fun and be wild without being madness. Clean up the coppers anf it will sort itself out.

if tourists want to come to a country that allows them to do stupid things that they couldnt do at home because of a lax police force here, then I couldnt give a damn. if youre behaving and keeping your wits about you its safe enough.

You act as though these excesses have no consequence for you. Well, having kids I saw the changes to our town that this excessive bias towards excess caused in the town.

Bars open to 6am, and kids acting like fools everywhere.

If Thailand thinks having bars open till 6 with neon flashing and chicks falling out of themselves with drunks everywhere is what they want, then I am glad I left.

There is a limit. It isn't being enabled by a lax police force , it is being enabled by basic coruption. That has a cost for everyone even though u think it may not.

I just heard a few days ago that an old friends ex wives daughter just got pregnant from a Thai guy at the age of 14. She had been working in a bar in pattaya.

Everything has a consequence, and this level of lawlessness is causing problems for Thai society as a whole.

everything has consequences and i prefer the ones i have now to the ones i would have if they cleaned things up. if i wanted that kind of a place to live i'd go to florida! yeccccch!

[MAJIC]

The other 0.02% are plain stupid. I would like to use the word "unlucky". but the info is out there these days.

The problem with that statement is that well more than 0.02% of them do stupid things.

It's only by the grace of God (and being on the right side of statistics) that I survived the stupid stuff I have done, especially when I was young, bulletproof and loaded with beer muscles.

If every tourist who did stupid stuff were to get what the 0.02% get, there wouldn't be many tourists returning home...

And let's face it, a lot of people are reasonable, sane, smart, and in the wrong place at the wrong time. The odds probably improve for them, but some of them just get on the wrong side of statistics.

With Impulse here,

Trying to think of what the Koh Tao pair did that was stupid, nope, can't think of anything.

like everyone else, you dont know everything they did.

"like everyone else, you dont know everything they did"

And neither do you,so stop being the eternal apologist! it's getting boring!

[watcharacters]

there are deaths, of course there are - simple when there are estimated 50,000 UK retirees here

hard to believe, old people die too!

This from UK's FCO, August 2011

In total, 5,972 Britons died abroad last year, with those in the Philippines most likely to die, although 84% of the deaths were through natural causes. Thailand recorded the deaths of 374 Britons, 64% of which were from natural causes.

and from last year, Australia 2012 figures

"There have not been any unusual trends in the figures for deaths of Australians overseas in 2012," a DFAT spokesperson said. "More Australians are travelling and living abroad than ever before, and these figures reflect that increase."

2012 Australian overseas deaths - top 10

Rank - Country - Total deaths

1 Thailand 111

2 Philippines 68

3 Greece 60

4 Vietnam 54

5 US 51

Plenty of other places have more retired Brits.

There are plenty of working Brits in Bangkok too. The bangkok embassy is far too busy. But then, they rent 1000xc bikes to idiots without licenses and insurance, you can drinkn till sun up, you can rent a jet ski despite it instantly breaking thai law.

Build a lawless tourism industry and it will get out of hand eventually. Is there a single aspect of a tourist experience in Thailand that passes Thai law?

Check into the hotel. After that...rent a bike, no license, hookers, illegal, drink till sun up, 2am? Jet ski, illegal....

And on it goes.

You paint quite a picture.

[Thai at Heart]

If they tighten up the rules, the types of tourists that make up these stats will quit coming. The present situation encourages them to come and their deaths dont scare off tourists that behave themselves.

Care to elaborate? Are you proposing all tourists be banned?

I remember about a year ago of a middle aged respectable Australian lady travel agent who was walking down the street and got stabbed to death in daytime in Phuket. Are you trying to say she was part of the "type of tourist" that had it coming?

nope, leave everything as is. its not too dangerous if you use your common sense and behave rationally. as for the anecdotal stabbing cases, those happen in my home country too.

I disagree. It is time to curb the excesses and clean up the coppers. The only way that this type of chaos can be conducted in a safe way is for the corruption to be cleared up.

Don't forget this chaos involving cops effects thais too. Just look at santika. Completely illegal, unregulated, uncontrolled.

Its possible to have fun and be wild without being madness. Clean up the coppers anf it will sort itself out.

if tourists want to come to a country that allows them to do stupid things that they couldnt do at home because of a lax police force here, then I couldnt give a damn. if youre behaving and keeping your wits about you its safe enough.

You act as though these excesses have no consequence for you. Well, having kids I saw the changes to our town that this excessive bias towards excess caused in the town.

Bars open to 6am, and kids acting like fools everywhere.

If Thailand thinks having bars open till 6 with neon flashing and chicks falling out of themselves with drunks everywhere is what they want, then I am glad I left.

There is a limit. It isn't being enabled by a lax police force , it is being enabled by basic coruption. That has a cost for everyone even though u think it may not.

I just heard a few days ago that an old friends ex wives daughter just got pregnant from a Thai guy at the age of 14. She had been working in a bar in pattaya.

Everything has a consequence, and this level of lawlessness is causing problems for Thai society as a whole.

everything has consequences and i prefer the ones i have now to the ones i would have if they cleaned things up. if i wanted that kind of a place to live i'd go to florida! yeccccch!

It doesn't have to be Florida. Just an honest functioning police force that does its job. If Thais want the bars open to 6am so be it. But when the law is 2am and a copper takes a bribe to enable it, chaos reigns.

[sipi]

Getting drunk and diving 20 feet into 4 feet of water isn't bright. Just one example. It almost seems "cool" to die overseas.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The fact that pattaya is the suicide capital of southeast asia should tell you something, I mean its at the top of self inflicted death? there is on average of one to two a week, 3 sub contractors just to deal with the sheer volume..

I know when I heard this it struck a cord, sure the over the counter Prozac and <DELETED> 48 years your junior is heavenly but many a guy simply runs dry in money and spirit to the point were a balcony dive seems like a nice Tuesday morning idea you can only venture from there that the place must be unsafe in many other areas and im not talking about falling coconuts which do tally up a number yearly that rivals shark attacks deaths and a fair amount of those in the kingdom itself.

Thai police habitually record foreigner deaths as suicide, especially in Pattaya.

Hard to know if it's the suicide capital or the murder capital.

My personal opinion is murder capital.

(remember the story of the guy on the boat, dead with his hands cuffed behind him and a plastic bag on his head ..... yep, suicide)

(remember the old couple dead in bed at the Deathtown Inn CM, ....... yep, police wanted to declare it a double suicide)

This is not a conspiracy theory, but a lazy Thai police theory.

Edited November 8, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[ajh6332]

948,000 visited and 150 died. (From Post #6)

That’s one in every 6,302 visitors.

If life expectancy in Aus is 80 years, you’d expect 1 in every 80 to die in a given year. (not exactly correct, but work with me here)

Even if the average tourist spends just a week in Thailand, there’s a 1 in 4160 chance they’d have died if they'd just stayed in in Aus. (80 x 52 = 4160)

Seems like the numbers say it’s a lot safer to travel to Thailand than stay home…

Of course that’s not true.

But this article gave just enough information to draw readers, and perhaps give some of the readers a smug feeling that they were right all along, but not nearly enough information to draw any valid conclusions…

I love this math! you should be chief statistician for a political candidate

[impulse]

948,000 visited and 150 died. (From Post #6)

That’s one in every 6,302 visitors.

If life expectancy in Aus is 80 years, you’d expect 1 in every 80 to die in a given year. (not exactly correct, but work with me here)

Even if the average tourist spends just a week in Thailand, there’s a 1 in 4160 chance they’d have died if they'd just stayed in in Aus. (80 x 52 = 4160)

Seems like the numbers say it’s a lot safer to travel to Thailand than stay home…

Of course that’s not true.

But this article gave just enough information to draw readers, and perhaps give some of the readers a smug feeling that they were right all along, but not nearly enough information to draw any valid conclusions…

I love this math! you should be chief statistician for a political candidate

Yeah, reminds me of the old joke about the guy who learned that the vast majority of accidents happen within 5 miles of home. So he moved.

[jpinx]

948,000 visited and 150 died. (From Post #6)

That’s one in every 6,302 visitors.

If life expectancy in Aus is 80 years, you’d expect 1 in every 80 to die in a given year. (not exactly correct, but work with me here)

Even if the average tourist spends just a week in Thailand, there’s a 1 in 4160 chance they’d have died if they'd just stayed in in Aus. (80 x 52 = 4160)

Seems like the numbers say it’s a lot safer to travel to Thailand than stay home…

Of course that’s not true.

But this article gave just enough information to draw readers, and perhaps give some of the readers a smug feeling that they were right all along, but not nearly enough information to draw any valid conclusions…

I love this math! you should be chief statistician for a political candidate

Yeah, reminds me of the old joke about the guy who learned that the vast majority of accidents happen within 5 miles of home. So he moved.

=============================================

.........or the old quip about Hospitals being the most dangerous of all, more people die in them than in any other building.

[mitsubishi]

If they tighten up the rules, the types of tourists that make up these stats will quit coming. The present situation encourages them to come and their deaths dont scare off tourists that behave themselves.

Care to elaborate? Are you proposing all tourists be banned?

I remember about a year ago of a middle aged respectable Australian lady travel agent who was walking down the street and got stabbed to death in daytime in Phuket. Are you trying to say she was part of the "type of tourist" that had it coming?

nope, leave everything as is. its not too dangerous if you use your common sense and behave rationally. as for the anecdotal stabbing cases, those happen in my home country too.

Yep, a lot of the fools clamoring for massive reforms will get more than they bargained for. LoS would become Land of OTT Enforcement!

[jacksam]

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Ayjaydee according to the article 400 Brits die every year in Thailand compared to 50 Aussies so your statement is wrong.

That being said if the figures are true it's alarming for all countries and I'd like to see some official figures of foreign deaths excluding natural causes.

brits dont misbehave in thailand?? lol

Yes but Aussies behave badly in my country (the UK) too. They act as if they invented and refined "partying" and have a manifest RIGHT to be disrespectful and boorish.

I've seen plenty of Australians being put flat on their backs in London and Bangkok alike and not once would a round of applause have been inappropriate

Obviously, I'm not going to tar an entire nationality because of a few <deleted> especially since my fellow Brits can be a handful too; it's just that the Aussies take it to another level

The OP was about deaths of TOURISTS. As was the article he posted. There about the same number of AU tourists to UK here each year. Check death rates of both nationalities and get back to me. At very least check your facts before typing rubbish like this

[CharlieH]

Off topic posts removed

[sipi]

New Zealand is far more dangerous than Thailand for tourists. NZ offers bungee jumping, skiing, mountaineering, glaciology, skydiving, rafting, icy roads, all night drinking, skydiving........almost on every corner.

So why do far more tourists per-see die in Thailand compared to New Zealand?

It is simply a cultural thing, and there is nothing the Police or anyone else can do about it.

They need to wake up to themselves.