British police examining Koh Tao murder probe to return to UK

[jdinasia]

I avoid conspiracy theories.

Why don't you take a look at this link

http://www.cib.police.go.th/homeeng.php

Then explain how the CIB duties are in any way involved in the investigation on Koh Tao.

[stephen terry]

I avoid conspiracy theories.

Why don't you take a look at this link

http://www.cib.police.go.th/homeeng.php

Then explain how the CIB duties are in any way involved in the investigation on Koh Tao.

I'm still waiting for a plausible scenario that would explain the timing of the immediate transfers of the two guys at the head of the CIB. Yes,

I have read their spiel, and it's entirely within their remit to protect tourists.

Whatever, my opinion is that the two events (Koh Tao debrief and immediate transfer of these guys) are linked by my above reasonings, which you avoid yourself, but engage others by deriding theirs. Prove I'm wrong.

[jdinasia]

Sorry, but proving your conspiracy theories (you have 2 for the same event) are wrong is not possible.

Since the Koh Tao investigation was not handled by the CIB, it is up to you to prove either of your conspiracy theories are correct.

[stephen terry]

Sorry, but proving your conspiracy theories (you have 2 for the same event) are wrong is not possible.

Since the Koh Tao investigation was not handled by the CIB, it is up to you to prove either of your conspiracy theories are correct.

I take it you don't read my posts. I stated my opinion. I don't have to prove anything. It's up to you whether you agree or not. Shall we move on to discuss if they were linked, what would be the ramifications? Why? Because it's kind of quiet on here, tonight.

Edited November 12, 2014 by stephen terry

[jdinasia]

Sorry, but proving your conspiracy theories (you have 2 for the same event) are wrong is not possible.

Since the Koh Tao investigation was not handled by the CIB, it is up to you to prove either of your conspiracy theories are correct.

I take it you don't read my posts. I stated my opinion. I don't have to prove anything. It's up to you whether you agree or not. Shall we move on to discuss if they were linked, what would be the ramifications? Why? Because it's kind of quiet on here, tonight.

Instead why don't we discuss your characterization of the meeting between the UK police, and the head of the Thai police.

"The UK detective thanked Thai authorities for their cooperation, said Pol.Lt.Gen. Prawut Thawornsiri, assistant to police chief Somyot Phumpanmuang."

Is the statement from the story. You state something totally different. Where does your inside knowledge of the nature of the meeting come from?

What is more likely, that a police officer from the UK debriefs with the head of the national police force of Thailand, or that any such debriefing comes from diplomatic channels directly to the PM or Thai ambassador to the UK? In what world would a polite thank you meeting be a formal debriefing by someone here only to observe?

[stephen terry]

Because it's human nature to want to know what the Brits found - off the record and without any diplo-speak. If you think Somyot would miss that opportunity, you're either very naive or gullible, or both. I have every confidence that the Brit would have been briefed by the UK embassy to reveal what my above posts indicate - the bigger picture. Bad for tourism, availability of drugs, no-one doing anything about it, etc. etc.

And naturally, the Thai response to the media would be diplomatic. And I'm now discontinuing this dialogue because you're arguing for argument's sake.

[jdinasia]

Because it's human nature to want to know what the Brits found - off the record and without any diplo-speak. If you think Somyot would miss that opportunity, you're either very naive or gullible, or both. I have every confidence that the Brit would have been briefed by the UK embassy to reveal what my above posts indicate - the bigger picture. Bad for tourism, availability of drugs, no-one doing anything about it, etc. etc.

And naturally, the Thai response to the media would be diplomatic. And I'm now discontinuing this dialogue because you're arguing for argument's sake.

So you think that the UK police would go outside of proper channels and debrief the top cop of a foreign country where his mandate was only to observe. You think that the UK police are that unprofessional?..

No wait... You instead are suggesting a totally different conspiracy. This time that instead of using proper diplomatic communication that they instead are trusting a lowly copper to handle delicate diplomacy!

[thailandchilli]

A particular poster on here keeps referring to the UK police mandate as if it was set in stone. How naive or maybe convenient for him to think so. The police mandate was to observe "and anything else they can help with" Quote by Cameron

[maidee]

i just wonder if those british copper can speak / read thai ...

how else they are going to investigate or read any reports ? thai translator ?

and a myanmar banana cake seller as interpreter ?

Edited November 12, 2014 by maidee

[Traveler19491]

It may, in fact, turn out that the British police attempt to gloss over the seeming ineptitude of the RTP in this investigation. However, I'm not so sure that this mess will then slip into oblivion, as the Thai government so desperately wishes. Should the Brits try to whitewash their findings, you can expect the victims parents to howl bloody murder, and rightly so. Let's just hope, for the sake of justice, and for the lives of the two Burmese, that this doesn't end up being swept under the rug.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Since a number of people have expressed interest in the autopsy report, I have taken the trouble to translate the one page extract from the report that has been posted online. It is unverified and lacks the preamble and signature pages among other things but is consistent with media reports that have appeared and seems likely to be genuine.

" Page 3

4.1.1. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by a hard blunt instrument consistent with the item referred to in the report (hoe found at the crime scene).

4.1.2. The area of the vagina exhibited signs of sexual assault.

4.1.3. Results of toxology.

4.1.3.1. No traces of psychotropics or psychoactive substances in the urine or blood.

4.1.3.2. No toxins from food found in the digestive tract.

4.1.4. Results of biochemical analysis.

4.1.4.1. In the area of the right nipple DNA was found from two individuals, Mr B and Mr C (assigned names).

4.1.4.2. Inside the vagina semen and DNA of Mr B was found.

4.1.4.3. In the vulva semen and DNA of Mr B and Mr C was found.

4.1.4. Cause of death. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by violent blows from a blunt instrument.

4.2. Autopsy report on the body of Mr David William Miller.

4.2.1. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by a hard blunt instrument consistent with the item referred in the report (hoe found at the crime scene).

4.2.2. No signs of sexual assault.

4.2.3. Water found in both sides of the chest cavity. Water induced swelling in both lungs.

4.2.4. Results of toxology.

4.2.4.1. No traces of psychotropics or other psychoactive substances in the urine or blood.

4.2.4.2. No toxins from food found in the digestive tract.

4.2.5. Results of biochemical analysis. No semen found in the anus. "

In the widely vewed interview with Sorayud on Channel 3 that can be found on Youtube, the deputy commander of the Institute of Forensic Science at the Police General Hospital, Police Colonel Dr Bhavat Prateepvisrut presented findings from the autopsy that seem identical to this report.

Bhavat Channel 3.jpg

On 12 October Komchadluek also published an article that reported on the results of the autopsy using the same language as the extract that is translated above.

In addition, Komchadluek also reported that the police had explained the reason why they thought there was no DNA found inside the condom found at the scene with Hanna's blood on the outside. According to Komchadluek, police said that the condom was probably an old one left on the beach and that the blood on the outside of it was dripped from the hoe while the perpetrators were using it to murder her.

I am confused about this theory about the condom as I was under the impression that the condom was found at the spot where David's clothes and a large spatter of David's blood were found, whereas most of Hannah's blood was found by the rock where her body was found but I may be wrong on this point.

Thanks for the time and effort you've put into this. I'm hoping we're not going to have a troll come along to try and discredit it

I think the report you posted could not be the entire official forensic autopsy report for the following reasons:

The official report must surely contain a "touch DNA" analysis of Hannah and David's clothing and bodies, which would surely show that at least they had each other's DNA on their bodies and clothes if they were in fact in close contact, and would also show the DNA of anybody else that had touched their clothing (surely the perpetrator of the rape) and grabbed their bodies.

The official report must surely contain a toxicology analysis of Hannah and David's hair . . . because date rape drugs dissipate very quickly in the blood and urine, and a hair analysis is the only way to confirm or eliminate the presence of date rape drugs--- and a hair analysis can be done for a month or more afterwards and still get accurate results.

The official report must surely contain a detailed forensics analysis of the wounds, including size and angle of attack, etc. as well as an analysis of the material that caused the wounds ( a jagged weapon would leave a certain type of wound; a glass or wood, etc. would leave tiny shards or splinters behind). And since the initial comments by the director of forensics and police after the forensic autopsy was performed stated that they believed a second metalic weapon was used on David, the forensic analysis would opine as to the nature of that weapon.

The official report must surely contain an analysis of any defensive wounds on Hannah and David's body.

• If Hannah had zero defensive wounds including bruises, then that would tell you in all probability she wasn't even restrained before being killed as well as raped.
• If David did have defensive wounds including bruises on his back and wounds on his hands, and therefore probably had a fight with his attacker and was dragged or knocked down to the sand, as initially stated by the chief of the Institute if Forensic Medicine right after the forensic autopsy was performed, then that would tell you in all probability he was not rendered unconscious by an initial blow to the back of the head. And if he was rendered unconscious with one blow and didn't fight back, then the forensic autopsy report would surely opine as to why he had wounds on his chin and front upper chest area, bruises on his back, wounds on his hands, etc.

Also, the initial reports said the bodies were transported to the Institute of Forensic Science at the Police General Hospital in Bangkok and that is where the initial forensic autopsy was performed, so the official autopsy could not have been performed in Koh Tao.

For all these reasons, while interesting I can't believe that what you translated is the complete official forensic autopsy results. The official autopsy that has not been published surely contains a large amount of crucial information that is not included in the one you translated.

[RickBradford]

The British police, apparently, have 2 tasks, which would seem to be almost irreconcilable.

1) to update the families of the two victims on the progress of the investigation.

2) to provide information which may be used in a coroner's report.

Unless the British police really believe the RTP's version of events, they either have to lie to the families or lie to the coroner.

Because there's no way the British government is going to deliver a withering criticism of Thailand's handling of this case; on the other hand, there's no way that the families are going to accept a bland whitewash statement that everything with the investigation has been handled well, given all the critical stories that have been published in the mainstream media.

Very tricky.

[mojorison]

The British police, apparently, have 2 tasks, which would seem to be almost irreconcilable.

1) to update the families of the two victims on the progress of the investigation.

2) to provide information which may be used in a coroner's report.

Unless the British police really believe the RTP's version of events, they either have to lie to the families or lie to the coroner.

Because there's no way the British government is going to deliver a withering criticism of Thailand's handling of this case; on the other hand, there's no way that the families are going to accept a bland whitewash statement that everything with the investigation has been handled well, given all the critical stories that have been published in the mainstream media.

Very tricky.

I don't see why UK can't give a robust critique of the BS RTP investigation. Why not? If Abbot can grill Putin on shooting down planes, then I don't see why Brown can't grill Thailand. Nothing to lose really... Thailand stands to lose more in terms of trade retaliation, and the people like a PM that occasionally delivers a slap down. I'd expect to see this message clearly spelled out for the audience at home. And if Thailand don't like it, tuff $hit.

[MJP]

The British police, apparently, have 2 tasks, which would seem to be almost irreconcilable.

1) to update the families of the two victims on the progress of the investigation.

2) to provide information which may be used in a coroner's report.

Unless the British police really believe the RTP's version of events, they either have to lie to the families or lie to the coroner.

Because there's no way the British government is going to deliver a withering criticism of Thailand's handling of this case; on the other hand, there's no way that the families are going to accept a bland whitewash statement that everything with the investigation has been handled well, given all the critical stories that have been published in the mainstream media.

Very tricky.

Not at all tricky. Just report the findings of the investigation in an open, honest and timely manner, regardless.

[heyexile]

So The Head of the CIB ( CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT) would have had no dealings with one of the biggest crime stories ( Koh Tao) to hit Thailand in recent years?....makes sense if you want to think like you do

Could someone please show me any connection to the 2 men named above to the investigation in Koh Tao?

-AFAIK totally unrelated but I am willing to be corrected

Dunno Boris Check out the separate topic on it. 3 great pages laying out many options all likely.

It may be odd that CIB were not involved but none of us have seen any mention of these 2 guys re kt.

It has all been good Pol Comm Gen Somyot and PM leading the public case perfect campaign with lesser input from head of Provincial Police Division 8. But, if they can get these police academy class buddies and appointees to fall on their swords and save the Reformation? Think too late for that now but the super top brass may feel powerful enough to pull off anything. No one in Thailand can criticise or oppose whatever they say or do and the rest of the world can just be misrepresented again. The hallowed Mission is all.

And some good investments may need to mature further.

[jdinasia]

And yet another conspiracy theory

[heyexile]

So The Head of the CIB ( CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT) would have had no dealings with one of the biggest crime stories ( Koh Tao) to hit Thailand in recent years?....makes sense if you want to think like you do

Could someone please show me any connection to the 2 men named above to the investigation in Koh Tao?

-AFAIK totally unrelated but I am willing to be corrected

The UK police team of 3? where only in Koh Tao for a few days then to Bangkok where it is known and recorded that they had various conferences with the Bkk police. Its more than a feasible suggestion that they met or talked to these

Edit, sorry double post mine, to Boris and Thailandchili

Gremlins. See #255

Edited November 12, 2014 by heyexile

[thailandchilli]

And yet another conspiracy theory

Great innit, better than having vested interests in murder island

[jdinasia]

And yet another conspiracy theory

Great innit, better than having vested interests in murder island

How much of the island businesses are you trying to buy cheap?

That must be what you are referring to, after all. Just another wannabe business guy trying to get a cheap deal?

(as I have no financial ties to the island)

Edited November 12, 2014 by jdinasia

[BoristheBlade]

`Thank you heyexile, interesting reading

I am certain today starts the beginning of a reality check for Thailand.

The next 2 months is going to be very messy.

As said before, I expect many revelations to come into public knowledge, some will be devastating for the people involved.

There is still time for the correct people to be brought to justice and for those in charge it may stop the revelations.

But todays news. shows those in charge in full panic mode

Long may it continue

Justice for David and Hanna and real justice and future for the people of Thailand!

So The Head of the CIB ( CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT) would have had no dealings with one of the biggest crime stories ( Koh Tao) to hit Thailand in recent years?....makes sense if you want to think like you do

Could someone please show me any connection to the 2 men named above to the investigation in Koh Tao?


-AFAIK totally unrelated but I am willing to be corrected

The UK police team of 3? where only in Koh Tao for a few days then to Bangkok where it is known and recorded that they had various conferences with the Bkk police. Its more than a feasible suggestion that they met or talked to these

Edit, sorry double post mine, to Boris and Thailandchili

Gremlins. See #555

[thailandchilli]

And yet another conspiracy theory

Great innit, better than having vested interests in murder island

How much of the island businesses are you trying to buy cheap?

That must be what you are referring to, after all. Just another wannabe business guy trying to get a cheap deal?

(as I have no financial ties to the island)

I think the vested interests you have in Koh Tao have been covered very well in this forum already.

So whats the reason there's cheap business's on the Island? Are they suffering from lack of tourists $$$$

[jdinasia]

And yet another conspiracy theory

Great innit, better than having vested interests in murder island

How much of the island businesses are you trying to buy cheap?

That must be what you are referring to, after all. Just another wannabe business guy trying to get a cheap deal?

(as I have no financial ties to the island)

I think the vested interests you have in Koh Tao have been covered very well in this forum already.

So whats the reason there's cheap business's on the Island? Are they suffering from lack of tourists $$$$

You are apparently not able to understand what a vested interest is. Your continued assertion that I have vested interests is just an extension of your other conspiracy theories and just as sad as those theories.

As far as I am aware there are no cheap businesses on the island but it doesn't follow that that is your goal.

[thailandchilli]

As plainly stated previously 'vested interests' does not have to be financial would you like a source for that? Seeing as you have dive masters, business friends, restaurant owners and what you have yourself described as 'professional people' whoever they may be than its fair to say you have a 'vested interest' in murder Island

Edited November 12, 2014 by thailandchilli

[jdinasia]

I know dive masters (2, Thai) and have friends there that own businesses.

Not strange as I am a diver and have lived in Thailand for well over a decade.

That doesn't make a vested interest.

Your accusation is harassment, and I avoid throwing that term around on here.

[thailandchilli]

I know dive masters (2, Thai) and have friends there that own businesses.

Not strange as I am a diver and have lived in Thailand for well over a decade.

That doesn't make a vested interest.

Your accusation is harassment, and I avoid throwing that term around on here.

You forgot the 'professional people' you mentioned in previous posts. Yes it does make a 'vested interest'

I would say harassment is a term that could be made against you with your "conspiracy theory' one liners to any post you disagree with.

[heyexile]

Boris and friends, the military never panic (well almost never). Sometimes they retreat or are even defeated,

This case really seems it could be a tick tocker for the highest by exposing so much. A few have been suggesting it for weeks, even in Nation Opinion posts.

All good citizens like ourselves will hope the crusading Reformation will survive such little bumps in the yellow bricked road to glory

[BoristheBlade]

I think they are worried, don't forget we are talking the Thai military. The thought kickicking out the Shins' would lead to the promised land, it may have financially , but the numerous problems facing Thailand must be causing great worry to the junta. Thailand is at the crossroads...

The last thing they needed was an international incident like Koh Tao, they have handled it appallingly and the criticism they have received it totally justified. When the British Police publish there report the whole world will see the real Thailand.

What's going to be the reaction then....interesting times......

Boris and friends, the military never panic (well almost never). Sometimes they retreat or are even defeated,

This case really seems it could be a tick tocker for the highest by exposing so much. A few have been suggesting it for weeks, even in Nation Opinion posts.

All good citizens like ourselves will hope the crusading Reformation will survive such little bumps in the yellow bricked road to glory

[BoristheBlade]

One thing for certain, a certain exiled Thai living in the middle east must think Christmas has come early.

Edited November 12, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[BoristheBlade]

One more thing with the military. They are starting to affect the lives of 1000's of ordinary Thai folk. The area I live over the last few days is undergoing , what I can only describe as a military spring clean. Several hundred local, mainly poor Thai businesses have simply been told to go.

The result....a lovely clean place, but some very seriously p*** off locals, who are far from impressed.

[SteveFong]

If certain members of the elite of Koh Tao contribute to the upper elite Billions of Baht in their ill gotten gains, I am sure they are given 007 status as you put it.

Their does seem to be a licence to kill on Koh Tao, many unsolved murders and suspicious deaths

Ah, my dear fellow, thats where you're wrong. There has NEVER been any unsolved murders or suspicious deaths on Koh Tao. At least, that's what the mayor or some such big Poo came out and said.

If you don't believe me you can ask JTJ or JDin Asia, I'm sure they'd fall over each other to confirm such truthiness.

methinks jdinasia is an acronym for J.D. which is frequently on the business cards and stationairy of lawyers

the question is,

who is he working for on this matter?