Merkel says new EU Russia sanctions unplanned

[webfact]

Merkel says new EU Russia sanctions unplanned

(BBC) German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said further economic sanctions against Russia are not planned over its actions in eastern Ukraine.

EU foreign ministers are to discuss sanctions next week and monitors say a ceasefire between pro-Russian rebels and Ukrainian forces risks unravelling.

But Mrs Merkel said that while the ceasefire was not being respected the focus was on securing a real truce.

EU sanctions were first imposed when Russia annexed Crimea in March.

Further measures have since been added since, targeting senior Russian officials, as well as Russia's oil industry, defence firms and banks.

Western governments and the Ukrainian authorities in Kiev have accused Russia of supplying the separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine with heavy weapons and soldiers, a claim denied by the government in Moscow.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30003449


-- BBC 2014-11-12

[NeverSure]

The EU positively has to wean itself from Russian oil. There is plenty of oil in the world so that Merkel doesn't have to kiss up to Putin.

[Mosha]

The world need to wean itself from oil full stop.

[JoePai]

The EU positively has to wean itself from Russian oil. There is plenty of oil in the world so that Merkel doesn't have to kiss up to Putin.

Oil is the easy part, it's gas that is the problem

[NeverSure]

The world need to wean itself from oil full stop.

OK. You go first.

[NeverSure]

The EU positively has to wean itself from Russian oil. There is plenty of oil in the world so that Merkel doesn't have to kiss up to Putin.

Oil is the easy part, it's gas that is the problem

Actually gas is the small part. Before mass production of the internal combustion engine gas was often burned as a byproduct.

Nylon is a petroleum polymer. Most plastics are. Car tires and other synthetic rubber products. Fertilizers. Paving material... Well here's a long but partial list of things we use daily that are made from oil.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/independentlens/classroom/wwo/petroleum.pdf

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The EU positively has to wean itself from Russian oil. There is plenty of oil in the world so that Merkel doesn't have to kiss up to Putin.

Oil is the easy part, it's gas that is the problem

Not really. Most of the imported natural gas is used during the winter months, so deliberate shortages by Russian as an economic weapon has a limited time effect. In terms of pure energy, Russian natural gas does not have to be replaced with other imported NG. Oil & gas resources in North Africa are undeveloped. Investment in military security for Iraqi oil production can significantly increase oil availability from Iraq. Norway does have additional NG production capability as well. Ironcially, the US can provide significant energy exports to the EU. The success of its NG fracking processes has left it with cheap coal for export that can further cushion EU's dependence on Russia. And in another irony, Ukraine has already been in the process of developing through US oil & gas partners from its significant reserves in western Ukraine; and Ukraine's conflict with Russian NG imports has caused an acceleration of that development.

In the immediate term some of the EU nations (largely ones that have no significant NG storage, ie., Eastern Europe), there will be pain and sacrafice. In the long term EU independence from Russia oil & gas is a credible goal. With Russia very dependent on oil & NG exports for its economy, its oil & gas as an economic weapon loses value as it tries to replace its EU customers with nations like China. And you can bet the Chinese will take advantage of a desparate seller.

[NeverSure]

Merkel is a pussy.

She is no Thatcher.

She is no Iron Lady.

If Russia end up gnashing their teeth, it will likely be at Merkel, and she will crap herself. She won't get as much backing from the EU as she thinks. The EU will be shit scared of escalation. Forget NATO. You can't fight Russia in their own back yard. The Germans already tried that one and failed miserably.

Russia is definitely rehearsing for war. They know they are being pushed into a corner and they know equally that one day they will have to push back with much force.

The USA would love nothing else than to see an all out NATO attack on Russia with a European backdrop. The US avoids having conflicts in it own backyard. It has always been the same. The US is an 'invading' force.

Well I would like to see NATO invade Russia. Because the Russians are a complete different setup to any other enemy the US and NATO have ever had to deal with in the past. They have proved time and again that they have no problem with sending 10 million troops into the battlefield despite the potential losses to their people. They wouldn't think twice.

The US and EU will be far too frightened to allow it to escalate, they know eventually rather than capitulate to the west, they will turn Europe and the USA into smoking holes in the ground.

I believe the reason there hasn't been a nuclear war since the US bombed Japan is MAD - Mutual Assured Destruction. I don't think Putin wants the US to launch a bunch of ICBM's at him from under water and from the US and from various places in Europe and Asia.

Europe is loaded with US hardware, especially in Germany but in other places.

The US has the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System which should shoot down any Russian nuclear missile while leaving Russia totally vulnerable to becoming a glass parking lot. That system is deployed in several places in Europe as well as in Asia and the Americas. Aegis

I keep posting this graph just to remind people to relax.

[NeverSure]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The EU positively has to wean itself from Russian oil. There is plenty of oil in the world so that Merkel doesn't have to kiss up to Putin.

Oil is the easy part, it's gas that is the problem

Not really. Most of the imported natural gas is used during the winter months, so deliberate shortages by Russian as an economic weapon has a limited time effect. In terms of pure energy, Russian natural gas does not have to be replaced with other imported NG. Oil & gas resources in North Africa are undeveloped. Investment in military security for Iraqi oil production can significantly increase oil availability from Iraq. Norway does have additional NG production capability as well. Ironcially, the US can provide significant energy exports to the EU. The success of its NG fracking processes has left it with cheap coal for export that can further cushion EU's dependence on Russia. And in another irony, Ukraine has already been in the process of developing through US oil & gas partners from its significant reserves in western Ukraine; and Ukraine's conflict with Russian NG imports has caused an acceleration of that development.

In the immediate term some of the EU nations (largely ones that have no significant NG storage, ie., Eastern Europe), there will be pain and sacrafice. In the long term EU independence from Russia oil & gas is a credible goal. With Russia very dependent on oil & NG exports for its economy, its oil & gas as an economic weapon loses value as it tries to replace its EU customers with nations like China. And you can bet the Chinese will take advantage of a desparate seller.

The US has more than 100 years worth of natural gas already drilled and capable of production. There's a lot more where that came from. It can be exported via ship. Canada and Mexico have great oil and gas production and untapped resources.

I can't think of a time when the US or Canada ever let allies in Europe down when it was crunch time.

[RustBucket]

The EU positively has to wean itself from Russian oil. There is plenty of oil in the world so that Merkel doesn't have to kiss up to Putin.

Oil is the easy part, it's gas that is the problem

Actually gas is the small part. Before mass production of the internal combustion engine gas was often burned as a byproduct.

Nylon is a petroleum polymer. Most plastics are. Car tires and other synthetic rubber products. Fertilizers. Paving material... Well here's a long but partial list of things we use daily that are made from oil.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/independentlens/classroom/wwo/petroleum.pdf

Gas is not the small part. Quite a narrow minded view actually.

If oil supply is cut off, there is oil available in many places at the same prices. There is also major stockpiling of oil in all countries. It would take months for it to have an impact and by then, new oil would have come in to fill the gap.

It thery turned off the gas, the impact would be immediate. When Russia turned off Ukraine's gas in 2006, most of the EU reported a drop in pressure up to 30% and was creating many problems.

Not only that, cutting off gas directly affect tens of millions of homes as they rely on gas for heating. You can't expect everyone to convert to oil. There are also many power stations in the EU that generate electricity with Russian gas. There are also millions of businesses that rely on gas for heating and/or production.

Gas can not be readily replaced in any of these domestic and business systems. The US gave offered to supply Europe with liquified natural gas, but this has been ruled out as not only super expensive, it would take at least 5 years to get to the capacity to do this, and people can't wait 5 years when they lose there gas within minutes of it being cut off.

So gas is wholly much more important than oil.

[RustBucket]

Merkel is a pussy.

She is no Thatcher.

She is no Iron Lady.

If Russia end up gnashing their teeth, it will likely be at Merkel, and she will crap herself. She won't get as much backing from the EU as she thinks. The EU will be shit scared of escalation. Forget NATO. You can't fight Russia in their own back yard. The Germans already tried that one and failed miserably.

Russia is definitely rehearsing for war. They know they are being pushed into a corner and they know equally that one day they will have to push back with much force.

The USA would love nothing else than to see an all out NATO attack on Russia with a European backdrop. The US avoids having conflicts in it own backyard. It has always been the same. The US is an 'invading' force.

Well I would like to see NATO invade Russia. Because the Russians are a complete different setup to any other enemy the US and NATO have ever had to deal with in the past. They have proved time and again that they have no problem with sending 10 million troops into the battlefield despite the potential losses to their people. They wouldn't think twice.

The US and EU will be far too frightened to allow it to escalate, they know eventually rather than capitulate to the west, they will turn Europe and the USA into smoking holes in the ground.

I believe the reason there hasn't been a nuclear war since the US bombed Japan is MAD - Mutual Assured Destruction. I don't think Putin wants the US to launch a bunch of ICBM's at him from under water and from the US and from various places in Europe and Asia.

Europe is loaded with US hardware, especially in Germany but in other places.

The US has the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System which should shoot down any Russian nuclear missile while leaving Russia totally vulnerable to becoming a glass parking lot. That system is deployed in several places in Europe as well as in Asia and the Americas. Aegis

I keep posting this graph just to remind people to relax.

The US and NATO will never be able to stop a Russian nuclear attack. It will be wiped out and so will Russia, but if you have Russia at a point of no return, trust me... they will let loose rather than surrender.

I don't care about US military spending, it means very little when a ground war is raging.

Russia is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan. They wouldn't capitulate to the US.

Biut then again. they will collapse the US economy before the US get a chance to even think about an invasion. (with the help of China). Russia has the ability to wipe out the US economy on its own, but China will agree to help, and that will make the crash 150% certain. Then the US will have more problems with it's own breakdown of society and the riots in the streets.

Russia could take out most of America's bases in the region within a couple of days.

[Publicus]

Germany's Merkel Sees No Possibility of Lifting Economic Sanctions Against Russia Over Ukraine

November 05, 2014

Read more: http://www.benzinga.com/news/14/11/4982627/germanys-merkel-sees-no-possibility-of-lifting-economic-sanctions-against-russia-#ixzz3IorNXgai

So there's another half to this story as these headlines and links indicate. They may in fact be the whole story.

Russia supplied 27% of the 130bcm of gas the EU used last winter, which was considered a mild winter, while the EU28 themselves supplied 33% of their own total demand.

EU reserves are currently 90% full and the EU has contracted to get gas for the coming December through March winter from the US, Australia, Israel, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan.

Additionally, EU states will increase gas production, specifically Norway and Netherlands. The bottom line is that the EU28 currently have 190 bcm available to it for Dec 1st - March 31st independently of Russia..

Most importantly, by the winter of 2015-16 the EU will be effectively independent of Russian gas.

Moreover, the EU is preparing new sanctions, against rebel leaders in Ukraine.

And...

U.S. Hopes Boom in Natural Gas Can Curb Putin

The crisis in Ukraine is heralding the rise of a new era of American energy diplomacy, as the Obama administration tries to deploy the vast new supply of natural gas in the United States as a weapon to undercut the influence of the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, over Ukraine and Europe.

David Dalton, the editor of the Economist Intelligence Unit, said: “Russia has always used gas as an instrument of influence. The more you owe Gazprom, the more they think they can turn the screws.”

But this time, there is a major difference.

“In World War II, we were the arsenal of democracy,” said Robert McNally, who was the senior director for international energy issues on the National Security Council during the Bush administration. “I think we’re going to become the arsenal of energy.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/us-seeks-to-reduce-ukraines-reliance-on-russia-for-natural-gas.html?_r=0

[Baerboxer]

The EU positively has to wean itself from Russian oil. There is plenty of oil in the world so that Merkel doesn't have to kiss up to Putin.

Agreed. And Merkel has to realize she doesn't run the EU, make all the decisions and decide all the policies herself.

[Publicus]

Merkel is a pussy.

She is no Thatcher.

She is no Iron Lady.

If Russia end up gnashing their teeth, it will likely be at Merkel, and she will crap herself. She won't get as much backing from the EU as she thinks. The EU will be shit scared of escalation. Forget NATO. You can't fight Russia in their own back yard. The Germans already tried that one and failed miserably.

Russia is definitely rehearsing for war. They know they are being pushed into a corner and they know equally that one day they will have to push back with much force.

The USA would love nothing else than to see an all out NATO attack on Russia with a European backdrop. The US avoids having conflicts in it own backyard. It has always been the same. The US is an 'invading' force.

Well I would like to see NATO invade Russia. Because the Russians are a complete different setup to any other enemy the US and NATO have ever had to deal with in the past. They have proved time and again that they have no problem with sending 10 million troops into the battlefield despite the potential losses to their people. They wouldn't think twice.

The US and EU will be far too frightened to allow it to escalate, they know eventually rather than capitulate to the west, they will turn Europe and the USA into smoking holes in the ground.

I believe the reason there hasn't been a nuclear war since the US bombed Japan is MAD - Mutual Assured Destruction. I don't think Putin wants the US to launch a bunch of ICBM's at him from under water and from the US and from various places in Europe and Asia.

Europe is loaded with US hardware, especially in Germany but in other places.

The US has the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System which should shoot down any Russian nuclear missile while leaving Russia totally vulnerable to becoming a glass parking lot. That system is deployed in several places in Europe as well as in Asia and the Americas. Aegis

I keep posting this graph just to remind people to relax.

The US and NATO will never be able to stop a Russian nuclear attack. It will be wiped out and so will Russia, but if you have Russia at a point of no return, trust me... they will let loose rather than surrender.

I don't care about US military spending, it means very little when a ground war is raging.

Russia is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan. They wouldn't capitulate to the US.

Biut then again. they will collapse the US economy before the US get a chance to even think about an invasion. (with the help of China). Russia has the ability to wipe out the US economy on its own, but China will agree to help, and that will make the crash 150% certain. Then the US will have more problems with it's own breakdown of society and the riots in the streets.

Russia could take out most of America's bases in the region within a couple of days.

This fierce determination to destroy the United States and the talk of a nuclear attack, and of and using nuclear weapons tells us who we are up against.

The significant fact is that it starts with Putin and it will end with Putin, and that there will be no use of nuclear weapons. Even China is absolutely opposed to that. Putin knows that this is China's point of departure from him, absolutely and completely.

The fact is Putin draws the nuclear holocaust crowd of armageddon worshipers. In other words, Putin is a lunatic who attracts and draws lunatics who have no place in legitimate forums.

[NeverSure]

The US and NATO will never be able to stop a Russian nuclear attack. It will be wiped out and so will Russia, but if you have Russia at a point of no return, trust me... they will let loose rather than surrender.

I don't care about US military spending, it means very little when a ground war is raging.

Russia is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan. They wouldn't capitulate to the US.

Biut then again. they will collapse the US economy before the US get a chance to even think about an invasion. (with the help of China). Russia has the ability to wipe out the US economy on its own, but China will agree to help, and that will make the crash 150% certain. Then the US will have more problems with it's own breakdown of society and the riots in the streets.

Russia could take out most of America's bases in the region within a couple of days.

Publicus just answered many of your concerns, and very well he did.

The US can indeed shoot down ICBMs and mid-range rockets.

The US is the leader in technology and it matters not if you care about military spending. What can Russia possibly have with the pittance it spends?

How in the world do you think Russia or China could affect the US economy? If the US stops buying, or puts heavy duties on Chinese products China will collapse tomorrow. The US is the largest buyer of China's exports, surpassing all of the EU combined. We had a thread here in the last couple of days where it was shown that China's debt is 250% of its GDP; It's broke.

We had a thread yesterday showing how Russia's currency is collapsing. The US doesn't need either one of those countries, and don't try the unlearned "the US is in debt to China" deal on me either.

The US economy is growing, unemployment had dropped to about 1/2 what it was in the bottom of the recent fall, and the dollar is gaining on most currencies.

Russia is getting an economic war right now. The US and Saudi Arabia have pumped enough oil to drive it from a high of $110 a barrel this summer to less than $80 last week as the US pumps as much oil as Saudi Arabia is capable of pumping. Saudi is pumping to defend its position is its markets including Asia, and the US is pumping to hurt Russia.

Putin can't run his country on $80 oil, and with the strengthening dollar which he has to buy with his lousy panicked currency, oil could go to $50 and break Russia.

The world's biggest oil shipping company just filed bankruptcy, partly due to not properly hedging its bets on oil prices. LINK

Edited November 12, 2014 by NeverSure

[h90]

The EU positively has to wean itself from Russian oil. There is plenty of oil in the world so that Merkel doesn't have to kiss up to Putin.

yes from the human rights paradise in Saudi Arabia for example.....

Gas seems to be the bigger problem than oil.

[NeverSure]

Actually gas is the small part. Before mass production of the internal combustion engine gas was often burned as a byproduct.

Nylon is a petroleum polymer. Most plastics are. Car tires and other synthetic rubber products. Fertilizers. Paving material... Well here's a long but partial list of things we use daily that are made from oil.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/independentlens/classroom/wwo/petroleum.pdf

Gas is not the small part. Quite a narrow minded view actually.

If oil supply is cut off, there is oil available in many places at the same prices. There is also major stockpiling of oil in all countries. It would take months for it to have an impact and by then, new oil would have come in to fill the gap.

It thery turned off the gas, the impact would be immediate. When Russia turned off Ukraine's gas in 2006, most of the EU reported a drop in pressure up to 30% and was creating many problems.

Not only that, cutting off gas directly affect tens of millions of homes as they rely on gas for heating. You can't expect everyone to convert to oil. There are also many power stations in the EU that generate electricity with Russian gas. There are also millions of businesses that rely on gas for heating and/or production.

Gas can not be readily replaced in any of these domestic and business systems. The US gave offered to supply Europe with liquified natural gas, but this has been ruled out as not only super expensive, it would take at least 5 years to get to the capacity to do this, and people can't wait 5 years when they lose there gas within minutes of it being cut off.

So gas is wholly much more important than oil.

I apologize, I forgot that Americans call petrol "gas" and "gas" "natural gas." I meant petrol is the small part.

Otherwise, I stand by my posts, and the natural gas can be supplied from elsewhere.

[h90]

The US and NATO will never be able to stop a Russian nuclear attack. It will be wiped out and so will Russia, but if you have Russia at a point of no return, trust me... they will let loose rather than surrender.

I don't care about US military spending, it means very little when a ground war is raging.

Russia is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan. They wouldn't capitulate to the US.

Biut then again. they will collapse the US economy before the US get a chance to even think about an invasion. (with the help of China). Russia has the ability to wipe out the US economy on its own, but China will agree to help, and that will make the crash 150% certain. Then the US will have more problems with it's own breakdown of society and the riots in the streets.

Russia could take out most of America's bases in the region within a couple of days.

Publicus just answered many of your concerns, and very well he did.

The US can indeed shoot down ICBMs and mid-range rockets.

The US is the leader in technology and it matters not if you care about military spending. What can Russia possibly have with the pittance it spends?

How in the world do you think Russia or China could affect the US economy? If the US stops buying, or puts heavy duties on Chinese products China will collapse tomorrow. The US is the largest buyer of China's exports, surpassing all of the EU combined. We had a thread here in the last couple of days where it was shown that China's debt is 250% of its GDP; It's broke.

We had a thread yesterday showing how Russia's currency is collapsing. The US doesn't need either one of those countries, and don't try the unlearned "the US is in debt to China" deal on me either.

The US economy is growing, unemployment had dropped to about 1/2 what it was in the bottom of the recent fall, and the dollar is gaining on most currencies.

Russia is getting an economic war right now. The US and Saudi Arabia have pumped enough oil to drive it from a high of $110 a barrel this summer to less than $80 last week as the US pumps as much oil as Saudi Arabia is capable of pumping. Saudi is pumping to defend its position is its markets including Asia, and the US is pumping to hurt Russia.

Putin can't run his country on $80 oil, and with the strengthening dollar which he has to buy with his lousy panicked currency, oil could go to $50 and break Russia.

The world's biggest oil shipping company just filed bankruptcy, partly due to not properly hedging its bets on oil prices. LINK

No USA can't shot down Russian ICBMs. Even from the very old one, they could shoot down only a few, which wouldn't help much. But meanwhile all or most of the ICBMs have various measures to avoid being shot down. Not a ballistic falling down. Instead movement. Splitting the warhead into several warheads (so you have 5 to shoot down and with multiple rockets you get a huge amount of targets to shoot down at the same time).

Russia can flatten the west without problems.....And the west can do the same with Russia. The result would be a global climate change....a real one, that would need a 100-200 years for the human race to recover.

Even considering you are right and Russia and USA can only destroy the 10 biggest cities of the other (Russia has its missile defense as well, it might be even better than the American one) it would be a disaster for the planet.

It would be better if the West helps Russian economic problems. What is if Putin gets replaced by some nationalistic madman?

[zig]

We had a thread yesterday showing how Russia's currency is collapsing. The US doesn't need either one of those countries, and don't try the unlearned "the US is in debt to China" deal on me either.

...

Putin can't run his country on $80 oil, and with the strengthening dollar which he has to buy with his lousy panicked currency, oil could go to $50 and break Russia.

The world's biggest oil shipping company just filed bankruptcy, partly due to not properly hedging its bets on oil prices. LINK

Well, it was mentioned in some article on Bloomberg that Putin himself might be allowing or maneuvering the ruble to fall since he is only benefiting from it. Russia is selling oil and gas for dollars while all the production expenses are in rubles. Thinking about it, also most of his costs for running the country are in rubles. This way the common folks will bear most of the costs caused by his policies and he still gets to blame the West for it.

[Publicus]

The US and NATO will never be able to stop a Russian nuclear attack. It will be wiped out and so will Russia, but if you have Russia at a point of no return, trust me... they will let loose rather than surrender.

I don't care about US military spending, it means very little when a ground war is raging.

Russia is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan. They wouldn't capitulate to the US.

Biut then again. they will collapse the US economy before the US get a chance to even think about an invasion. (with the help of China). Russia has the ability to wipe out the US economy on its own, but China will agree to help, and that will make the crash 150% certain. Then the US will have more problems with it's own breakdown of society and the riots in the streets.

Russia could take out most of America's bases in the region within a couple of days.

Publicus just answered many of your concerns, and very well he did.

The US can indeed shoot down ICBMs and mid-range rockets.

The US is the leader in technology and it matters not if you care about military spending. What can Russia possibly have with the pittance it spends?

How in the world do you think Russia or China could affect the US economy? If the US stops buying, or puts heavy duties on Chinese products China will collapse tomorrow. The US is the largest buyer of China's exports, surpassing all of the EU combined. We had a thread here in the last couple of days where it was shown that China's debt is 250% of its GDP; It's broke.

We had a thread yesterday showing how Russia's currency is collapsing. The US doesn't need either one of those countries, and don't try the unlearned "the US is in debt to China" deal on me either.

The US economy is growing, unemployment had dropped to about 1/2 what it was in the bottom of the recent fall, and the dollar is gaining on most currencies.

Russia is getting an economic war right now. The US and Saudi Arabia have pumped enough oil to drive it from a high of $110 a barrel this summer to less than $80 last week as the US pumps as much oil as Saudi Arabia is capable of pumping. Saudi is pumping to defend its position is its markets including Asia, and the US is pumping to hurt Russia.

Putin can't run his country on $80 oil, and with the strengthening dollar which he has to buy with his lousy panicked currency, oil could go to $50 and break Russia.

The world's biggest oil shipping company just filed bankruptcy, partly due to not properly hedging its bets on oil prices. LINK

No USA can't shot down Russian ICBMs. Even from the very old one, they could shoot down only a few, which wouldn't help much. But meanwhile all or most of the ICBMs have various measures to avoid being shot down. Not a ballistic falling down. Instead movement. Splitting the warhead into several warheads (so you have 5 to shoot down and with multiple rockets you get a huge amount of targets to shoot down at the same time).

Russia can flatten the west without problems.....And the west can do the same with Russia. The result would be a global climate change....a real one, that would need a 100-200 years for the human race to recover.

Even considering you are right and Russia and USA can only destroy the 10 biggest cities of the other (Russia has its missile defense as well, it might be even better than the American one) it would be a disaster for the planet.

It would be better if the West helps Russian economic problems. What is if Putin gets replaced by some nationalistic madman?

What is if Putin gets replaced by some nationalistic madman?

Trying to be scary doesn't get anyone anywhere. Putin is Russia's nationalistic madman.

The US and Europe have repeatedly invited Putin to join the international order and system but Putin seems to hate and detest prosperity, democracy, stability.

The Russian oligarchs want to make more billions and to continue their "good life" of wealth, power, privilege. They are not interested in riding on falling nuclear warheads while waving Russian flags and signing old KGB songs. Any one who thinks or believes they would is himself unhinged.

Putin needs to slow down or he's liable to end up under a heap of snow in Siberia the same as the Tsar was for 100 years, to include the Tsar's dog.

As it's currently going Putin is attracting every raging lunatic of nuclear armageddon on the planet, every sociopath that is focused against the United States..

Fairly or unfairly, almost every one posting in support of Putin and Russia the past year thus becomes associated with their deviant madness.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Publicus

[RustBucket]

Germany's Merkel Sees No Possibility of Lifting Economic Sanctions Against Russia Over Ukraine

November 05, 2014

Read more: http://www.benzinga.com/news/14/11/4982627/germanys-merkel-sees-no-possibility-of-lifting-economic-sanctions-against-russia-#ixzz3IorNXgai

So there's another half to this story as these headlines and links indicate. They may in fact be the whole story.

Russia supplied 27% of the 130bcm of gas the EU used last winter, which was considered a mild winter, while the EU28 themselves supplied 33% of their own total demand.

EU reserves are currently 90% full and the EU has contracted to get gas for the coming December through March winter from the US, Australia, Israel, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan.

Additionally, EU states will increase gas production, specifically Norway and Netherlands. The bottom line is that the EU28 currently have 190 bcm available to it for Dec 1st - March 31st independently of Russia..

Most importantly, by the winter of 2015-16 the EU will be effectively independent of Russian gas.

Moreover, the EU is preparing new sanctions, against rebel leaders in Ukraine.

And...

U.S. Hopes Boom in Natural Gas Can Curb Putin

The crisis in Ukraine is heralding the rise of a new era of American energy diplomacy, as the Obama administration tries to deploy the vast new supply of natural gas in the United States as a weapon to undercut the influence of the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, over Ukraine and Europe.

David Dalton, the editor of the Economist Intelligence Unit, said: “Russia has always used gas as an instrument of influence. The more you owe Gazprom, the more they think they can turn the screws.”

But this time, there is a major difference.

“In World War II, we were the arsenal of democracy,” said Robert McNally, who was the senior director for international energy issues on the National Security Council during the Bush administration. “I think we’re going to become the arsenal of energy.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/us-seeks-to-reduce-ukraines-reliance-on-russia-for-natural-gas.html?_r=0

LOL........

Russia will collapse the USD and the US economy long before the US can pull the rug out from under them.

Putin's attitude is IF the US have the balls to try to disrupt the Russian economy, they will unload all their dollars overnight and so will China and all the oil producing countries, and the USA will be no more.

FACT!

[Publicus]

We had a thread yesterday showing how Russia's currency is collapsing. The US doesn't need either one of those countries, and don't try the unlearned "the US is in debt to China" deal on me either.

...

Putin can't run his country on $80 oil, and with the strengthening dollar which he has to buy with his lousy panicked currency, oil could go to $50 and break Russia.

The world's biggest oil shipping company just filed bankruptcy, partly due to not properly hedging its bets on oil prices. LINK

Well, it was mentioned in some article on Bloomberg that Putin himself might be allowing or maneuvering the ruble to fall since he is only benefiting from it. Russia is selling oil and gas for dollars while all the production expenses are in rubles. Thinking about it, also most of his costs for running the country are in rubles. This way the common folks will bear most of the costs caused by his policies and he still gets to blame the West for it.

And Putin is a master chess player too although he's never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail.

[Publicus]

Germany's Merkel Sees No Possibility of Lifting Economic Sanctions Against Russia Over Ukraine

November 05, 2014

Read more: http://www.benzinga.com/news/14/11/4982627/germanys-merkel-sees-no-possibility-of-lifting-economic-sanctions-against-russia-#ixzz3IorNXgai

So there's another half to this story as these headlines and links indicate. They may in fact be the whole story.

Russia supplied 27% of the 130bcm of gas the EU used last winter, which was considered a mild winter, while the EU28 themselves supplied 33% of their own total demand.

EU reserves are currently 90% full and the EU has contracted to get gas for the coming December through March winter from the US, Australia, Israel, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan.

Additionally, EU states will increase gas production, specifically Norway and Netherlands. The bottom line is that the EU28 currently have 190 bcm available to it for Dec 1st - March 31st independently of Russia..

Most importantly, by the winter of 2015-16 the EU will be effectively independent of Russian gas.

Moreover, the EU is preparing new sanctions, against rebel leaders in Ukraine.

And...

U.S. Hopes Boom in Natural Gas Can Curb Putin

The crisis in Ukraine is heralding the rise of a new era of American energy diplomacy, as the Obama administration tries to deploy the vast new supply of natural gas in the United States as a weapon to undercut the influence of the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, over Ukraine and Europe.

David Dalton, the editor of the Economist Intelligence Unit, said: “Russia has always used gas as an instrument of influence. The more you owe Gazprom, the more they think they can turn the screws.”

But this time, there is a major difference.

“In World War II, we were the arsenal of democracy,” said Robert McNally, who was the senior director for international energy issues on the National Security Council during the Bush administration. “I think we’re going to become the arsenal of energy.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/us-seeks-to-reduce-ukraines-reliance-on-russia-for-natural-gas.html?_r=0

LOL........

Russia will collapse the USD and the US economy long before the US can pull the rug out from under them.

Putin's attitude is IF the US have the balls to try to disrupt the Russian economy, they will unload all their dollars overnight and so will China and all the oil producing countries, and the USA will be no more.

FACT!

[craigt3365]

LOL........

Russia will collapse the USD and the US economy long before the US can pull the rug out from under them.

Putin's attitude is IF the US have the balls to try to disrupt the Russian economy, they will unload all their dollars overnight and so will China and all the oil producing countries, and the USA will be no more.

FACT!

OK. Please stick to the topic. Which doesn't include nuclear war nor destruction of the US.

[Qarl]

Merkel is a pussy.

She is no Thatcher.

She is no Iron Lady.

If Russia end up gnashing their teeth, it will likely be at Merkel, and she will crap herself. She won't get as much backing from the EU as she thinks. The EU will be shit scared of escalation. Forget NATO. You can't fight Russia in their own back yard. The Germans already tried that one and failed miserably.

Russia is definitely rehearsing for war. They know they are being pushed into a corner and they know equally that one day they will have to push back with much force.

The USA would love nothing else than to see an all out NATO attack on Russia with a European backdrop. The US avoids having conflicts in it own backyard. It has always been the same. The US is an 'invading' force.

Well I would like to see NATO invade Russia. Because the Russians are a complete different setup to any other enemy the US and NATO have ever had to deal with in the past. They have proved time and again that they have no problem with sending 10 million troops into the battlefield despite the potential losses to their people. They wouldn't think twice.

The US and EU will be far too frightened to allow it to escalate, they know eventually rather than capitulate to the west, they will turn Europe and the USA into smoking holes in the ground.

I believe the reason there hasn't been a nuclear war since the US bombed Japan is MAD - Mutual Assured Destruction. I don't think Putin wants the US to launch a bunch of ICBM's at him from under water and from the US and from various places in Europe and Asia.

Europe is loaded with US hardware, especially in Germany but in other places.

The US has the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System which should shoot down any Russian nuclear missile while leaving Russia totally vulnerable to becoming a glass parking lot. That system is deployed in several places in Europe as well as in Asia and the Americas. Aegis

I keep posting this graph just to remind people to relax.

The US and NATO will never be able to stop a Russian nuclear attack. It will be wiped out and so will Russia, but if you have Russia at a point of no return, trust me... they will let loose rather than surrender.

I don't care about US military spending, it means very little when a ground war is raging.

Russia is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan. They wouldn't capitulate to the US.

Biut then again. they will collapse the US economy before the US get a chance to even think about an invasion. (with the help of China). Russia has the ability to wipe out the US economy on its own, but China will agree to help, and that will make the crash 150% certain. Then the US will have more problems with it's own breakdown of society and the riots in the streets.

Russia could take out most of America's bases in the region within a couple of days.

What a fantastic day-dream!

[Jay Sata]

The USA started all this trying to get Ukraine in NATO and access to Crimea ports.

[lovetotravel]

The USA started all this trying to get Ukraine in NATO and access to Crimea ports.

True, but they did it from a negotiating table, not from the end of a gun. Huge difference.

[Thongkorn]

I think the Eu should ween its self of a German Dictator. she is not the voice of Europe

[Publicus]

I think the Eu should ween its self of a German Dictator. she is not the voice of Europe

She speaks for Europe as the largest economy of the continent and for a democratic Germany in the European Union that popped out of its womb in 1949. If Chancellor Merkel did not have the democratic authority to speak for the continent she would not be allowed to speak in its behalf.

Europeans well know that next year will be 70 years since 1945, 76 years since 1939 and that this year is 25 years after the fall of the Wall that had separated Angela Merkel from capitalism, freedom and democracy in West Germany and the West in general.

Germany has earned some certain moral credits during that time and over many post war trials. Half of my ancestry is in a country bordering Germany so I understand some hesitancy about the country but outright hostility and a bold stridency is more than a bit OTT.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Publicus

[copa8]

I think the Eu should ween its self of a German Dictator. she is not the voice of Europe

Germany has earned some certain moral credits during that time and over many post war trials.

Tru dat. Germany certainly did more to atone for WW2 than Japan ever did.