Getting enough Vitamin D via sunlight

[Jingthing]

OK even though I haven't tested for this I think there is a good chance I'm not getting enough vitamin d.

I know the three sources are certain foods like sardines, sunlight, and last resort supplements.

I do actually like sardines but I can't eat them often enough probably.

Supplements are ridiculously expensive in Thailand.

So that obviously leaves sunlight. I've read that 10 minutes daily in direct sunlight without sunblock does the trick.

Obviously you don't want too much sun because of skin cancer risk.

I am confused about the details for the 10 minutes. Is wearing shorts and short sleeve shirt enough full exposure or do you need to be in a bathing suit?

If midday sun is ideal full sun does that mean at 330 pm is worthless for this purpose or only you need to expose longer than 10 minutes?

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[ignis]

Supplements you buy from where ? looks like a ridiculously expensive shop ? ......... buy in a Thai local Pharmacy + buy by the box = far cheaper

​I used to buy just Vitamin 'D' tablets, 1x box = 5 strips of 10 in blister pack for 400 something baht.. [Thai Alpha D3 25mcg]

Now I only use 'Centrum' the big box at my local Pharmacy is 460 baht for 100 tablets... yes that is expensive as re my tub of Metformin is 299 baht for 500 tablets.. or [if you have lots of money they are 30 baht per 1x strip of 10 about 3 years ago]

​I do spend far longer out in the sun than 10 mins a day, and have never used sun block in my life, never wear a hat or any head cover, don't even have any hair to cover so guess get plenty of Vitamin D from the sun.

[Jingthing]

Well good for you.

But what I'm seeking here is some technical information about getting enough sunlight in a healthy way.

BTW, I should add I got most of the information from the OP from a t.v. show called Trust Me I'm a Doctor.

From that, I should add that the advice for 10 minutes direct unprotected exposure was endorsed even by a skin cancer specialist for MOST PEOPLE... but the caveat was added that those with histories of skin cancer or certain skin types ("GINGERS") they really probably shouldn't do even that!

[everett kendall]

I go out in the early morning to water the garden, direct exposure to the sun at this time of day is better than later in the day. Of course I do this starkers and have been able to continue a nice all over skin color and enough Vitamin D to be healthy.

[CaptHaddock]

Jing,

Don't guess, test. I continued taking 3000 IU daily of Vitamin D3 supplements after moving to Bangkok from New York. But recently I included the 25-hydroxy blood test for Vit D when having some other blood tests at St. Louis Hospital. They emailed me the result after 3 days. My vitamin D reading was high normal, 69 ug/L where normal range is 20 - 70. So, I stopped taking the supplement. I do everything I can to avoid any sun exposure here at all, including carrying an umbrella at all times.

The 10 minutes of sunlight per day is a heuristic recommended for North America where the intensity of sunlight is much less than Thailand. So, I wouldn't rely on it here.

I recommend you get tested. Then you'll know.

[maxx58]

Here's a link to info on Vitamin D:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/05/28/vitamin-d-deficiency-signs-symptoms.aspx

[ukrules]

I take the tablets and avoid the sun - it's too hot.

[fvw53]

I bought a month ago vitamin D3 (25 mcg) in Amsterdam: 100 tablets for 9.90 Euro

If Ignis paid 460 Baht - then taking into account always high Thai import tax - this is not too much.

But...who can give us reliable advice about safe daily exposure to sunlight in Thailand and ...how many minutes, which time of the day and how much skin exposed?

[CapraIbex]

Google: "sunlight+vitamin d"

[fvw53]

to Captain Haddock : the vitamin D3 I bought in Amsterdam contained per tablet 1000 U.I. (= 25 cmg) so you took tablets which were 3 times stronger

[Cats4ever]

Some additional information in The Age (Melbourne) today. European research shows that there is growing evidence that sunlight also helps with blood pressure and associated concerns. They suggested 30 mins at Southern European summer level daily, provided you do not have above normal skin cancer risk. By all means do your research.

[uptheos]

"I am confused about the details for the 10 minutes. Is wearing shorts and short sleeve shirt enough full exposure or do you need to be in a bathing suit?"

Not if your walking around Chicago in the winter.

These recommendations weren't made on the basis that everyone lives in the tropics, so I imagine exposure to sunlight by any part of the body is useful.

[avander]

Jing,

In Australia they also say 10mins/day and we have very high uv ratings generally but it is not advised to get your dose in the 'midday' sun. I believe morning sun is best as advised elsewhere in this thread. I was diagnosed with a vit D deficiency in Australia and take a supplement. Here in LOS I generally avoid direct exposure to the sun and wear cap when I am out walking about in my cargos and tshirt.

[Don Aleman]

Bought a cheap bike, put it on my balcony, propped up the rear wheel and pedal away for 10 to 15 minutes every day. Saves D supplement cost, helps with heart rate and deludes Doctors into believing I do exercise frequaently

[Tolley]

Jing,

In Australia they also say 10mins/day and we have very high uv ratings generally but it is not advised to get your dose in the 'midday' sun. I believe morning sun is best as advised elsewhere in this thread. I was diagnosed with a vit D deficiency in Australia and take a supplement. Here in LOS I generally avoid direct exposure to the sun and wear cap when I am out walking about in my cargos and tshirt.

The experts say midday sun but in Oz the sun is strong so probably doesn't really matter that much the midday sun may be applicable more to colder countries.

Another thing to consider is to not wear sunglasses all the time as it blocks out certain things you need for healthy endocrine system.

[canarysun]

I take the tablets and avoid the sun - it's too hot.

You obviously didn't choose Thailand for the fabulous " outdoor lifestyle " ........

[alfieconn]

"I am confused about the details for the 10 minutes. Is wearing shorts and short sleeve shirt enough full exposure or do you need to be in a bathing suit?"

Not if your walking around Chicago in the winter.

These recommendations weren't made on the basis that everyone lives in the tropics, so I imagine exposure to sunlight by any part of the body is useful.

Well ups, I cover up completely apart from leaving my John Thomas hanging out and that seems to work ok !

[canarysun]

I must admit i don't believe in taking any of these " Vitamin tablets " It's become a huge business for many! If you eat the right foods everyday and exercise correctly you don't need to take this rubbish! also everybody must get some sunshine ( i am not saying that you all must have a Kenny Lynch suntan like mine viewers ...) but it is actually very bad for you to " hide away indoors " all day! The Thais love " looking as white as a ghost " I think everybody looks so much better with a suntan!

Farang Jaidee ( No need to " over react " with the applauding viewers ... )

[mokwit]

My understanding has always been that it takes about 20 minutes for your body to generate production of Vit D and also melanin (tan) - so if you are tanned from your sun exposure you are probably generating enough vitamin D. Amounts from foods such as Tuna or normal strength OTC Vit D is negligible compared to needs and amount from skin generation. If you use extreme doses of Vit D you need some things to be monitored via blood tests to prevent risk of some kind of health risk. I know that in winter above a certain lattitude sun is not strong enough to generate Vit D - just as it does not generate melanin - so converselymaybe tropics could require only 10 minutes.

[sawadee1947]

I go out in the early morning to water the garden, direct exposure to the sun at this time of day is better than later in the day. Of course I do this starkers and have been able to continue a nice all over skin color and enough Vitamin D to be healthy.

sorry, but that is not the right way: You have to be sure that the angle to the sun is more than 45 Grades. Vitamin D3 - min. 2000i.E. daily - is also important for your testosterone level. Also you have to know that we in Europe are talking about UV-levels around 3 whereas we have in BKK a UV-levels of 12. So you have to use sun screen or expose your body a shorter time than 10 Minutes!

[masuk]

Here's a link to info on Vitamin D:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/05/28/vitamin-d-deficiency-signs-symptoms.aspx

also this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D

In Holland, they called rickets the 'English disease' as they kids got so little sunlight and rickets was the outcome.

In Indonesia, it was common to see mothers/nursemaids, put babies in the sun for 10 minutes or so every morning.

[Suradit69]

According to a rather lengthy (Chicago-centric) piece from the Mayo Clinic:

Quick sun-exposure guideline…and a free app
In the Northern hemisphere, exposing your arms and legs (and abdomen and back whenever possible) to sunlight twice weekly for about 15 to 30 minutes of June noontime sun produces adequate levels of D. There’s no need to expose the sensitive skin of your face because, ironically, your face is highly inefficient at D production anyway.

I hear you thinking, “Doesn’t he remember we live in Chicago? What about the other 11 months of the year?” Here’s a helpful free app called dminder that provides data on sun exposure based on location, time of day, and skin color. And yes, in the darker months you’re definitely going to need some help.

For that there’s always the tanning bed. The Mayo group points out that regular tanning bed users all had robust levels of vitamin D and better bone density than non-users. Moreover, if everyone in the US used tanning beds to boost their 25(OH)D to 45 ng/ml or higher, there would be 400,000 reduced deaths from cancer and heart disease in comparison to 11,000 increased deaths from melanoma and other skin cancers.

and much more: http://wholehealthchicago.com/6170/mayo-clinics-stunning-vitamin-d-research/

And there's even an app

http://dminder.ontometrics.com/

Edited November 19, 2014 by Suradit69

[NoshowJones]

I must admit i don't believe in taking any of these " Vitamin tablets " It's become a huge business for many! If you eat the right foods everyday and exercise correctly you don't need to take this rubbish! also everybody must get some sunshine ( i am not saying that you all must have a Kenny Lynch suntan like mine viewers ...) but it is actually very bad for you to " hide away indoors " all day! The Thais love " looking as white as a ghost " I think everybody looks so much better with a suntan!

Farang Jaidee ( No need to " over react " with the applauding viewers ... )

Who is Kenny Lynch? I think you mean Benny Lynch the boxer, but he doesn't have a sun tan, I'm confused.

[Mudcrab]

Google: "sunlight+vitamin d"

google Melanoma

[Jingthing]

Thanks all so far. This has certainly given me food for thought and definitely some useful information has been posted. Like that the face doesn't convert much vitamin D ... couldn't have guessed that one!

I have felt intuitively that like most things, natural must be best, in this case sunlight and food vs. supplements.

It's like with coffee and it's effects, some beneficial, it's not only the caffeine but a lot of other stuff in there and how they work together. Taking a caffeine pill is not the same.

[Jingthing]

Google: "sunlight+vitamin d"

google Melanoma

Right ... as I was careful to mention in the OP, you need to avoid TOO MUCH sunlight.

The idea of tanning salons ... that sounds really questionable to me.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[Mudcrab]

Google: "sunlight+vitamin d"

google Melanoma

Right ... as I was careful to mention in the OP, you need to avoid TOO MUCH sunlight.

The idea of tanning salons ... that sounds really questionable to me.

The use of the tanning beds has been outlawed in Oz due to the link to skin cancer development, including melanoma, the deadliest form.

Every person in Thailand of Caucasian descent should read up on skin cancer and avoid the sun where possible. Doesn't mean you can't go outside, but be sensible, wear a broad brimmed hat (not a baseball cap) a loose fitting long sleeve shirt and wear SPF 15+ sunscreen. Avoid the sun between 10am and 2pm as this is when the UV is usually at its highest peak.

I do have some knowledge in this area - a survivor of melanoma 9 years now. I learnt a lot about it rather fast after diagnosis!!

By the way my tumour was where the sun don't shine so to speak - in my groin near the crown jewels. It was only the fact that it was itchy (and disgusted the ex with my scratching) that I actually had a look and then went to the doctors.

This saved my life.

The doctor did an excision there and then. Full body CT scan the next day and booked in for a wide excision with a surgeon a week later.

The three monthly checks for the first two years then six monthly in the third year. They used to do this for five years but apparently the extra two years of checks makes no difference to survival rate statistically.

Every little ache and pain around the initial area or abdomen sees me at the doctors quick smart. If the melanoma becomes metastatic then its pretty well game over so I don't take any chances.

There were also a couple of nasty side effects - depression and agoraphobia - neither very pleasant but both were treated and I'm all good now.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Mudcrab

[Jingthing]

That's one reason I found the show I mentioned Trust Me I'm a Doctor so interesting.

They had dermatologist on whose clinic had been telling all patients ... avoid all unprotected exposure to sunlight all the time.

Through the course of the program where evidence was presented, she changed her mind totally and would start suggesting LIMITED exposure to sun as safe enough and worth the small risk in exchange for the benefit of Vitamin D which apparently is needed quite critically for health. Exceptions were people with skin cancer histories and ginger skin types (there are of course lots of those among white people).

Getting a little sun for Vitamin D is a totally different thing than suggesting people use tanning beds or try to get suntans. I think it well established both things are risky practices though the cultural desirability of getting a tan is difficult to suppress.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[CaptHaddock]

That's one reason I found the show I mentioned Trust Me I'm a Doctor so interesting.

They had dermatologist on whose clinic had been telling all patients ... avoid all unprotected exposure to sunlight all the time.

Through the course of the program where evidence was presented, she changed her mind totally and would start suggesting LIMITED exposure to sun as safe enough and worth the small risk in exchange for the benefit of Vitamin D which apparently is needed quite critically for health. Exceptions were people with skin cancer histories and ginger skin types (there are of course lots of those among white people).

Getting a little sun for Vitamin D is a totally different thing than suggesting people use tanning beds or try to get suntans. I think it well established both things are risky practices though the cultural desirability of getting a tan is difficult to suppress.

On the other hand no one ever got melanoma or basal cell carcinoma from Vitamin D supplements.

[Jingthing]

True but perhaps I'm wrong but I think there are other important benefits of sunlight that you can't get from supplements, particularly around MOOD.

You know we all take risks every day just getting out of bed.

We all live with acceptable levels of risk.

We drive cars. We cross streets. Some of us drive motorcycles (personally I feel that is too risky for me so such decisions are personal).

What I'm asserting is that based on what I know now, admitting I am no specialist on that, getting limited amount of sunlight for it's benefits is a sensible thing for MOST people to do given that there always at least small risks in doing ANYTHING.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jingthing