Synagogue attack: Netanyahu vow in 'battle for Jerusalem'

[Lissos]

.............then you should also believe that the Native Americans have a right to have all their land back too.

Every 'native' was once descended from a migrant at some point in history, including the wide range of peoples you refer to above. Prior to the arrival of Europeans, those people were not a unified entity but were a wide range of tribes of different origins covering a truly vast expanse of terrains who flip flopped for centuries between raking over each other with extreme savage violence, or trading with each other depending on the situation at the time. As an author on this subject put it, the peoples of the North Americas saw the Europeans as just another tribe, and various tribes are known to have allied with them against other tribes, along with opposing. All these various tribes considered the situation to be fluid, rather than 'our land'.

[thaibeachlovers]

.............then you should also believe that the Native Americans have a right to have all their land back too.

Every 'native' was once descended from a migrant at some point in history, including the wide range of peoples you refer to above. Prior to the arrival of Europeans, those people were not a unified entity but were a wide range of tribes of different origins covering a truly vast expanse of terrains who flip flopped for centuries between raking over each other with extreme savage violence, or trading with each other depending on the situation at the time. As an author on this subject put it, the peoples of the North Americas saw the Europeans as just another tribe, and various tribes are known to have allied with them against other tribes, along with opposing. All these various tribes considered the situation to be fluid, rather than 'our land'.

Erm, you have modified my quote to suit your own agenda, which I believe is not allowed under forum rules. It is also off topic.

My contribution was

BTW, if you believe the Jews have an historical right to that land, then you should also believe that the Native Americans have a right to have all their land back too.

It was written in connection with Jews and Israel, not about the Native Americans specifically, but just as an example.

[Ulysses G.]

The American Indians will never occupy all the land in America and The Arabs will never occupy all the land in the area formerly known as Palestine. Both are history now.

[Ulysses G.]

However, till the Palestinians have a free homeland nothing is going to change. Expect more of the same.

Until the Palestinians stop the violence - that they started in the first place - they will never have a free homeland and Israel is going to always come out of top in any type of warfare. It has always been the same since the Palestinians refused their own homeland in 1948, declared war on Israel and LOST in a big way. Some folks never learn.

since the Palestinians refused their own homeland in 1948

That's an interesting take on it. As I remember it, the UN stole their land to give to a bunch of foreigners from Europe

Then you have not studied history. There were Jews living there for thousands of years. The Palestinian Arabs were mostly tenant farmers and recent immigrants from other places that owned very little land. Most of it was owned by absentee landlords in Cairo, Beirut and Damascus. They had no more right to it than the Jews, who actually bought a fair amount of land outright. After they started attacking the Jews and the Jews started fighting back, the UN stepped in to solve the problem by giving them both their own countries for the first time. The Palestinians Arabs refused, declared war on Israel and LOST.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[thaibeachlovers]

However, till the Palestinians have a free homeland nothing is going to change. Expect more of the same.

Until the Palestinians stop the violence - that they started in the first place - they will never have a free homeland and Israel is going to always come out of top in any type of warfare. It has always been the same since the Palestinians refused their own homeland in 1948, declared war on Israel and LOST in a big way. Some folks never learn.

since the Palestinians refused their own homeland in 1948

That's an interesting take on it. As I remember it, the UN stole their land to give to a bunch of foreigners from Europe

Then you have not studied history. There were Jews living there for thousands of years. The Palestinian Arabs were mostly tenant farmers and recent immigrants from other places that owned very little land. Most of it was owned by absentee landlords in Cairo, Beirut and Damascus. They had no more right to it than the Jews, who actually bought a fair amount of land outright. After they started attacking the Jews and the Jews started fighting back, the UN stepped in to solve the problem by giving them both their own countries for the first time. The Palestinians Arabs refused, declared war on Israel and LOST.

The Japanese declared war on America and lost, but the Americans didn't occupy their land for generations. Just losing a war doesn't mean that the winner can take all the land.

Actually, I would probably accept Israel having the area allocated by the UN, if they stopped occupying all the Palestinian land as well and went back to the 1948 borders.

[Ulysses G.]

The Japanese declared war on America and lost, but the Americans didn't occupy their land for generations.

They were not living on the same land to start with, but the Americans certainly DID occupy their land, changed their form of government and much else and still have thousands of troops there and for longer than the state of Israel has even existed.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

However, till the Palestinians have a free homeland nothing is going to change. Expect more of the same.

Until the Palestinians stop the violence - that they started in the first place - they will never have a free homeland and Israel is going to always come out of top in any type of warfare. It has always been the same since the Palestinians refused their own homeland in 1948, declared war on Israel and LOST in a big way. Some folks never learn.

since the Palestinians refused their own homeland in 1948

That's an interesting take on it. As I remember it, the UN stole their land to give to a bunch of foreigners from Europe

Then you have not studied history. There were Jews living there for thousands of years. The Palestinian Arabs were mostly tenant farmers and recent immigrants from other places that owned very little land. Most of it was owned by absentee landlords in Cairo, Beirut and Damascus. They had no more right to it than the Jews, who actually bought a fair amount of land outright. After they started attacking the Jews and the Jews started fighting back, the UN stepped in to solve the problem by giving them both their own countries for the first time. The Palestinians Arabs refused, declared war on Israel and LOST.

Palestine has been around for over 3,000 years. Many different peoples have lived there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

“The region has been controlled by numerous peoples, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians.”

Ergo people who lived in Palestine were Palestinians. Greek Historian Herodotus in the 5thC BC thought so anyway. He called the area Palaistine. The Romans called it Syria Palæstina

Jews are not a race. People who practised Judaism lived there for a few hundred years 2,000 years ago, then they lost their tenancy in the diaspora. Many others have laid claim to the land before and after them. Where’s your title deed?

Why would Palestinians agree to a partition plan (without being asked) giving half their land to a group of illegal Jewish immigrants who formed a mere 11% of the population and owned only 5% of the land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#Land_ownership

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine

It speaks volumes that 36 out of the 37 signatories to Israel's Declaration of Independence were illegal Jewish immigrants born mainly in Eastern Europe

Israel also started the 48 war

It was Israel who began the war by violating the 1947 partition plan and ethnically cleansing 700,000 Palestinians before the war even started. Jews had occupied most of the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948.

Tiberias was occupied on April 19, 1948, Haifa on April 22, Jaffa on April 28, the Arab quarters in the New City of Jerusalem on April 30, Beisan on May 8, Safad on May 10 and Acre on May 14, 1948, that was even before the end of the British mandate.

[harryfrompattaya]

I agree that nothing is about to change much regarding these sort of attacks, The attacks will continue as long as the Palestinians do not have independence.

IMO, the attacks will continue, even if they do have independence, without a comprehensive peace plan that can be enforced - just look at Gaza. That is why so many Israelis are hesitant about the whole independence thing.

I do not disagree with that, however, the present situation is not working, so perhaps time to try something different.

Just how long do the Israelis think they can occupy Palestinian land- for ever?

Wow I heard and agree the lord our God said no more speaking against Israel or Jews The Pushinment for this is external in hell

[Ulysses G.]

Israel also started the 48 war

As usual, you keep posting the same BS, but this nonsense stands out above the rest of the lies, because it is so well known that the Palestinians declared war, not Israel. The Arabs took responsibility for the war. Jamal Husseini - Arab Higher Committee in Palestine representative to the UN 1947-48 - told the Security Council:

"The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight."

.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

As usual, you keep posting the same BS, but this nonsense stands out above the rest of the lies, because it is so well known that the Palestinians declared war, not Israel.

The Arabs took responsibility for the war. Jamal Husseini - Arab Higher Committee in Palestine representative to the UN 1947-48 - told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

"The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight."

.

It's the big lie theory. Israel demonizers think if they tell such anti-Israel big lies enough times many more people will believe the big lies. Sadly, they are correct.

[Ulysses G.]

Luckily, his lies are so ridiculous and there is so much evidence otherwise, that no one that knows anything about history pays attention to them.

[thaibeachlovers]

The Japanese declared war on America and lost, but the Americans didn't occupy their land for generations.

They were not living on the same land to start with, but the Americans certainly DID occupy their land, changed their form of government and much else and still have thousands of troops there and for longer than the state of Israel has even existed.

Oh, so by that reasoning America is "occupying" Sth Korea, as they have troops there.

You know very well that the US do not have roadblocks to prevent Japanese moving about their country, and they do not shoot Japanese for protesting, and they do not stop the Japanese from trading with the rest of the world, and they do not evict Japanese so they can build settlements to fill with Americans.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't remember America attacking South Korea or beating it in a war. Your logic is not overwhelming.

The Japanese understood that they were beaten and being offered a better way of life. They worked with the USA and became a modern country with all the freedoms that brings.

The Palestinians have refused to do so for almost 7 decades. They have embraced terrorism and senseless violence instead and therefore remain in a purgatory of their own making.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't remember America attacking South Korea or beating it in a war. Your logic is not overwhelming.

The Japanese understood that they were beaten and being offered a better way of life. They worked with the USA and became a modern country with all the freedoms that brings.

The Palestinians have refused to do so for almost 7 decades. They have embraced terrorism and senseless violence instead and therefore remain in a purgatory of their own making.

I see illegal occupation, but you will come up with any excuse to support it, so I give up, not because I agree with you, but I can't be bothered anymore.

I have offered my "solution" ( that the Israelis withdraw to the 1948 border and allow Palestinians to be a free people ). What is your alternative to the present stalemate, or are you content to see occupation and death without end?

[Ulysses G.]

I see illegal occupation

I see an enemy who has kept fighting and refused to make peace for 66 years, even though they were beaten long ago. My solution is that the Palestinians sign a peace treaty - as Israel has been asking all along - honor it and start to work on building an economy and a much better life for their people. Of course, if they had accepted the UN deal in 1948, they would not have to start from scratch now.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

Israel also started the 48 war

As usual, you keep posting the same BS, but this nonsense stands out above the rest of the lies, because it is so well known that the Palestinians declared war, not Israel. The Arabs took responsibility for the war. Jamal Husseini - Arab Higher Committee in Palestine representative to the UN 1947-48 - told the Security Council:

"The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight."

.

It's strange then how 700,000 of these Palestinians were declaring war on Israel as they were being herded down the road by Jewish terrorist ethnic cleansing gangs such as Irgun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun and Lehi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group) months before war was declared by neighboring Arab states in response to atrocities of the Zionists' ethnic cleansing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

You misquote Jamal Husseini.....the sole link you ever use for your Big Lie refers to the May1948 war. You're very fond of distorting timelines, UG. A war in which a handful of Palestinian lions (far outnumbered by the Zionist army) were led by corrupt incompetent Arab leaders many of whom had been bribed and bullied by US not to fight beyond the the West Bank.

"Before the end of the mandate and, therefore before any possible intervention by Arab states, the Jews, taking advantage of their superior military preparation and organization, had occupied...most of the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948. ..In contrast, the Palestine Arabs did not seize any of the territories reserved for the Jewish state under the partition resolution." British author, Henry Cattan, "Palestine, The Arabs and Israel."

http://www.wrmea.org/jews-for-justice/the-un-partition-of-palestine.html

The Jewish historian Avi Shlaim ridiculed your myth in his book "the Iron Wall"...."This popular-heroic-moralistic version of the 1948 war has been used extensively in Israeli propaganda and is still taught in Israeli schools. It is a prime example of the use of a nationalistic version of history in the process of nation building. In a very real sense history is the propaganda of the victors, and the history of the 1948 war is no exception."

Another of your myths busted, UG

[losworld]

Sorry to say but what can they expect when they bomb the hell out of and completely obliterate the oppossition for weeks on end?

[Jingthing]

Sorry to say but what can they expect when they bomb the hell out of and completely obliterate the oppossition for weeks on end?

Completely obliterate?

OK, the casualties were heavy.

But your rhetoric is ridiculous.

I figured about .001 percent of the Gaza population obliterated.

That was during an active war, where Hamas was shooting thousands of rockets at Israel and sneaking into Israel via tunnels when they could.

Completely obliterated?

I'd like to see how you would describe that if that actually happened.

Your post just another nauseating attempt to justify an obvious terror attack on innocent civilians.

Now if they went after Israeli military targets, that would be different.

This wasn't that.

To add notice I said THOUSANDS of rockets from Hamas.

Because that's what it was.

I didn't say MILLIONS or BILLIONS of rockets.

Now if I had it would be as ridiculous as the "obliterate" comment.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

I see illegal occupation

I see an enemy who has kept fighting and refused to make peace for 66 years, even though they were beaten long ago. My solution is that the Palestinians sign a peace treaty - as Israel has been asking all along - honor it and start to work on building an economy and a much better life for their people. Of course, if they had accepted the UN deal in 1948, they would not have to start from scratch now.

The Partition Plan was 1947 not 48...get your facts straight.

Why should the Palestinians give up 55% of their land to illegal Jewish migrants who owned a mere 5% of the area? So they protested. their hands were tied by the British authorities, and yes the bully boy Jews won through political conniving with the US and other UN states and superior numbers in their well organized army against corrupt incompetent neighboring Arab leaders..

Just because the bully wins doesn't make it right.

And what sort of quality of life have Israelis had since 1948...constantly at war. Isn't it about time they made serious efforts towards peace rather than grabbing more land.

More synagogue massacres to come I fear. Your peace loving Jewish Israeli terrorists just today torched the one school where Muslim and Jewish students could study together and learn to live in peace.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/max-rayne-hand-in-hand-school-arsonists-attack-jerusalem-school-where-jews-and-muslims-learn-side-by-side-9894475.html

[Ulysses G.]

Israel also started the 48 war

As usual, you keep posting the same BS, but this nonsense stands out above the rest of the lies, because it is so well known that the Palestinians declared war, not Israel. The Arabs took responsibility for the war. Jamal Husseini - Arab Higher Committee in Palestine representative to the UN 1947-48 - told the Security Council:

"The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight."

You misquote Jamal Husseini.....the sole link you ever use for your Big Lie refers to the May1948 war.

It gets so boring pointing out your fabrications over and over again. Look at your FIB that I am replying to and correcting.

Israel also started the 48 war

Why would I bother with another quote when the Arab Higher Committee in Palestine representative to the UN told the Security Council that they started the fighting? I quoted him EXACTLY.

EVERYONE KNOWS that the Palestinians declared war when Israel declared independence and five Arab armies attacked them and LOST. Do you really think that you fool anybody with an education?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Just because the bully wins doesn't make it right.

The Arabs started attacking the Jews when they far outnumbered them, but the bully lost and justice prevailed.

[Ulysses G.]

And what sort of quality of life have Israelis had since 1948

Way better than the Palestinians and probably every country in the Middle East.

The Jewish state has overcome countless obstacles and has emerged as a real success. Israel is a member of the exclusive Organisation for Economic Cooperation (OECD), has hundreds of companies listed on Nasdaq and its expertise, technology, humanitarian assistance and defense strategies are employed by countries on every continent. Unlike their enemies, Israel keeps drastically improving.

Besides the big deals like Waze, Trusteer, etc., there were less heralded, but vitally important developments this year

Read more: Israel's tech successes 2013: The rest of the story | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-tech-successes-2013-the-rest-of-the-story/#ixzz3Ke9KzpCO

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

I strongly suggest you return to the topic of the OP.

This is starting to be a circular argument.

[Jingthing]

In response to the terror attack at the synagogue, a moment of silence was observed in the Jordanian parliament to honor the dead martrys (the Palestinian terrorists not the innocents).

The Jordanian MP behind that explains himself.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge the direct relationship between anti-Zionism, antisemitism (against Jews), and anti-Israelism should be enlightened a bit from the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NhAmjGHX9M

Edited December 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

In response to the terror attack at the synagogue, a moment of silence was observed in the Jordanian parliament to honor the dead martrys (the Palestinian terrorists not the innocents).

The Jordanian MP behind that explains himself.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge the direct relationship between anti-Zionism, antisemitism (against Jews), and anti-Israelism should be enlightened a bit from the watch.

Isn't it Netanyahu who is proposing Israel become the Jewish State, thus automatically making all legitimate criticism of Israel anti Semitic. There is no direct relationship so long as Israel remains a secular democratic state..it's the Zionists who are promoting the racist/religionist agenda.

Edited December 1, 2014 by dexterm

[chuckd]

In response to the terror attack at the synagogue, a moment of silence was observed in the Jordanian parliament to honor the dead martrys (the Palestinian terrorists not the innocents).

The Jordanian MP behind that explains himself.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge the direct relationship between anti-Zionism, antisemitism (against Jews), and anti-Israelism should be enlightened a bit from the watch.

Isn't it Netanyahu who is proposing Israel become the Jewish State, thus automatically making all legitimate criticism of Israel anti Semitic. There is no direct relationship so long as Israel remains a secular democratic state..it's the Zionists who are promoting the racist/religionist agenda.

#dexterm

Are you really a member of the Jordanian Parliament in disguise?