Devil exhaust, police law/fine about noise/sound

[Richard-BKK]

While the TIS 341 standard is specifying exhaust “mufflers” noise of 99dB(A) the official standard was in 2007 changed and the TIS rules are not valid anymore, they are overruled by the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated October 13, B.E. 2548, and the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 published in the Royal Government Gazette, Vol. 124 Special Part 29D, dated March 14, B.E. 2550, which specify that all motorcycles are limited to much lower noise levels.

I can also remember that I read something in 2012 or 2013 about some new environmental rules that effected the noise levels of motorcycles from 110cc t0 150cc. If memory serves me correct I was not that worried as not much changed for motorcycles specified by the government as big-bikes... (what is currently everything bigger than 300cc).

But even the documents (2007, I cannot find anything about 2012/2013) I can find about noise levels are high compared to other places in the world, 94dB/95dB(A) at halve a throttle.... which is comparable to the 2014 FIM rules for motocross bikes which is 94dB(A).

The Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 also specifies that it will be illegal to modify a motor vehicle's exhaust system in anyway....

[mataleo]

While the TIS 341 standard is specifying exhaust “mufflers” noise of 99dB(A) the official standard was in 2007 changed and the TIS rules are not valid anymore, they are overruled by the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated October 13, B.E. 2548, and the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 published in the Royal Government Gazette, Vol. 124 Special Part 29D, dated March 14, B.E. 2550, which specify that all motorcycles are limited to much lower noise levels.

I can also remember that I read something in 2012 or 2013 about some new environmental rules that effected the noise levels of motorcycles from 110cc t0 150cc. If memory serves me correct I was not that worried as not much changed for motorcycles specified by the government as big-bikes... (what is currently everything bigger than 300cc).

But even the documents (2007, I cannot find anything about 2012/2013) I can find about noise levels are high compared to other places in the world, 94dB/95dB(A) at halve a throttle.... which is comparable to the 2014 FIM rules for motocross bikes which is 94dB(A).

The Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 also specifies that it will be illegal to modify a motor vehicle's exhaust system in anyway....

U much in to it mate. Whys that u dealer or modified urself.

94db is quit high thats racing bikes isnt it

[Richard-BKK]

I have several companies that are active in the Thai automotive industry, which includes motorcycles. Nothing that involves retail products.

[seedy]

Thanks Richard. Informative as always.

[fullcave]

Tried the Devil on my ninja 300 but didn’t like the sound and it was backfiring. Sounded like a garbage truck! Never again. Replaced it with a Scorpian exhaust. Lesson learned.

[mataleo]

Tried the Devil on my ninja 300 but didn’t like the sound and it was backfiring. Sounded like a garbage truck! Never again. Replaced it with a Scorpian exhaust. Lesson learned.

I like it

Yeh its exploding booms

I got full system so its bit different sound etc then slipon

Without db killer its very loud. ..

depends what model u had as theres few...

[ll2]

While the TIS 341 standard is specifying exhaust “mufflers” noise of 99dB(A) the official standard was in 2007 changed and the TIS rules are not valid anymore, they are overruled by the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated October 13, B.E. 2548, and the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 published in the Royal Government Gazette, Vol. 124 Special Part 29D, dated March 14, B.E. 2550, which specify that all motorcycles are limited to much lower noise levels.

I can also remember that I read something in 2012 or 2013 about some new environmental rules that effected the noise levels of motorcycles from 110cc t0 150cc. If memory serves me correct I was not that worried as not much changed for motorcycles specified by the government as big-bikes... (what is currently everything bigger than 300cc).

But even the documents (2007, I cannot find anything about 2012/2013) I can find about noise levels are high compared to other places in the world, 94dB/95dB(A) at halve a throttle.... which is comparable to the 2014 FIM rules for motocross bikes which is 94dB(A).

The Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 also specifies that it will be illegal to modify a motor vehicle's exhaust system in anyway....

Richard whatever man. If you have a pipr with TIS stamp, police dont touch you and let you go.

[mataleo]

While the TIS 341 standard is specifying exhaust “mufflers” noise of 99dB(A) the official standard was in 2007 changed and the TIS rules are not valid anymore, they are overruled by the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated October 13, B.E. 2548, and the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 published in the Royal Government Gazette, Vol. 124 Special Part 29D, dated March 14, B.E. 2550, which specify that all motorcycles are limited to much lower noise levels.

I can also remember that I read something in 2012 or 2013 about some new environmental rules that effected the noise levels of motorcycles from 110cc t0 150cc. If memory serves me correct I was not that worried as not much changed for motorcycles specified by the government as big-bikes... (what is currently everything bigger than 300cc).

But even the documents (2007, I cannot find anything about 2012/2013) I can find about noise levels are high compared to other places in the world, 94dB/95dB(A) at halve a throttle.... which is comparable to the 2014 FIM rules for motocross bikes which is 94dB(A).

The Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 also specifies that it will be illegal to modify a motor vehicle's exhaust system in anyway....

Richard whatever man. If you have a pipr with TIS stamp, police dont touch you and let you go.

The thing is the one with TIS stamp is the crappy one.

Ppl go for Akropovich, 2 Brothers, Yoshimura, Devil, Skorpion etc.

If I had to change to TIS crappy one I keep stock one on...

[fullcave]

Tried the Devil on my ninja 300 but didn’t like the sound and it was backfiring. Sounded like a garbage truck! Never again. Replaced it with a Scorpian exhaust. Lesson learned.

I like it

Yeh its exploding booms

I got full system so its bit different sound etc then slipon

Without db killer its very loud. ..

depends what model u had as theres few...

Mine was full exhaust as well. Did not care for the exploding booms...

[fullcave]

While the TIS 341 standard is specifying exhaust “mufflers” noise of 99dB(A) the official standard was in 2007 changed and the TIS rules are not valid anymore, they are overruled by the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated October 13, B.E. 2548, and the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 published in the Royal Government Gazette, Vol. 124 Special Part 29D, dated March 14, B.E. 2550, which specify that all motorcycles are limited to much lower noise levels.

I can also remember that I read something in 2012 or 2013 about some new environmental rules that effected the noise levels of motorcycles from 110cc t0 150cc. If memory serves me correct I was not that worried as not much changed for motorcycles specified by the government as big-bikes... (what is currently everything bigger than 300cc).

But even the documents (2007, I cannot find anything about 2012/2013) I can find about noise levels are high compared to other places in the world, 94dB/95dB(A) at halve a throttle.... which is comparable to the 2014 FIM rules for motocross bikes which is 94dB(A).

The Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 also specifies that it will be illegal to modify a motor vehicle's exhaust system in anyway....

Richard whatever man. If you have a pipr with TIS stamp, police dont touch you and let you go.

The thing is the one with TIS stamp is the crappy one.

Ppl go for Akropovich, 2 Brothers, Yoshimura, Devil, Skorpion etc.

If I had to change to TIS crappy one I keep stock one on...

From my experience, I’d take Devil off that list...

[mataleo]

While the TIS 341 standard is specifying exhaust “mufflers” noise of 99dB(A) the official standard was in 2007 changed and the TIS rules are not valid anymore, they are overruled by the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated October 13, B.E. 2548, and the Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 published in the Royal Government Gazette, Vol. 124 Special Part 29D, dated March 14, B.E. 2550, which specify that all motorcycles are limited to much lower noise levels.

I can also remember that I read something in 2012 or 2013 about some new environmental rules that effected the noise levels of motorcycles from 110cc t0 150cc. If memory serves me correct I was not that worried as not much changed for motorcycles specified by the government as big-bikes... (what is currently everything bigger than 300cc).

But even the documents (2007, I cannot find anything about 2012/2013) I can find about noise levels are high compared to other places in the world, 94dB/95dB(A) at halve a throttle.... which is comparable to the 2014 FIM rules for motocross bikes which is 94dB(A).

The Notification of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, Designated Carbon monoxide and Hydrocarbon Emission Standard dated February 8, B.E. 2550 also specifies that it will be illegal to modify a motor vehicle's exhaust system in anyway....

Richard whatever man. If you have a pipr with TIS stamp, police dont touch you and let you go.

The thing is the one with TIS stamp is the crappy one.

Ppl go for Akropovich, 2 Brothers, Yoshimura, Devil, Skorpion etc.

If I had to change to TIS crappy one I keep stock one on...

From my experience, I’d take Devil off that list...

May b u had some low model.

Mine is cool

Sounds better then akropovich

[fullcave]

May b u had some low model.

Mine is cool

Sounds better then akropovich

Nope, top model. Sounded like a garbage truck. The Skorpion was twice the price. You get what you pay for. Lesson learned.

[mataleo]

May b u had some low model.

Mine is cool

Sounds better then akropovich

Nope, top model. Sounded like a garbage truck. The Skorpion was twice the price. You get what you pay for. Lesson learned.

Nothing wrong with mine.

Love sound.

I got carbon

Full paid 16k

Akropovich slipon is what 20k-25k

i got guys here they got akro

My devil souns better

And without db killer is much louder.

But well everyone different likes

But for that price 16500 full carbon system I cant complain..

[fullcave]

May b u had some low model.

Mine is cool

Sounds better then akropovich

Nope, top model. Sounded like a garbage truck. The Skorpion was twice the price. You get what you pay for. Lesson learned.

Nothing wrong with mine.

Love sound.

I got carbon

Full paid 16k

Akropovich slipon is what 20k-25k

i got guys here they got akro

My devil souns better

And without db killer is much louder.

But well everyone different likes

But for that price 16500 full carbon system I cant complain..

Yeah, it’s cheap and that’s why I went for it however ya get what ya pay for. I lost six thousand on the resale. Like I said, lesson learned. As for power enhancement, I have seen no dyno on this exhaust. How about you? As for loudness, garbage trucks are pretty loud...

[mataleo]

May b u had some low model.

Mine is cool

Sounds better then akropovich

Nope, top model. Sounded like a garbage truck. The Skorpion was twice the price. You get what you pay for. Lesson learned.

Nothing wrong with mine.

Love sound.

I got carbon

Full paid 16k

Akropovich slipon is what 20k-25k

i got guys here they got akro

My devil souns better

And without db killer is much louder.

But well everyone different likes

But for that price 16500 full carbon system I cant complain..

Yeah, it’s cheap and that’s why I went for it however ya get what ya pay for. I lost six thousand on the resale. Like I said, lesson learned. As for power enhancement, I have seen no dyno on this exhaust. How about you? As for loudness, garbage trucks are pretty loud...

Its Italian brand. Its cheap b cuz they making it in Thailand.

I got more rpms then stock bit faster i guess 1 or 2 hp up.

I changed air filter to some performance i think it was DNA brand. Cheaper then other brands same thing...

[macknife]

As far as i know, if you have a full system then you need a power commander or else your ECU compensates for the lack of O2 sensor (It is presuming it's still there), in other words you're likely losing power. Slip ons don't need it as the sensor is still there.

So it might sound better but performance wise it isn't. There are others on here that know more about this than me. Of course using a power commander voids your warranty, which is why places like Kawasaki usually only sell slip ons.

Edited December 2, 2014 by macknife

[John1012]

Why do people need make so much noise with their street bikes/cars ? Size of penis? Low self esteem? There must be a logical reason for this strange phenomina.

Perhaps u will not get it anyway.

Its a man's thing. Racing and all that.

And theres other reasons like weight reduction, more power, cosmetic look, for me was even that inwould be selling it soon so i think pimped up a bit will go easier...

What a strange comment. "It's a man's thing". To me a man's thing is to have a fit strong body, humility,good manners, self confidence and respect for other peoples space. If you want the adrenaline feel of a racing bike, race, don't inflict the "macho" noise on the rest of the population and become a "wanna be, look at me". I look upon people who do this with a hint of sadness at their lack of self esteem. I am amused by the "Big Bike" brigade , with their very noisy exhausts. If you want to do "a man's thing", then race, play a hard sport, fight (in a ring or on a mat), take part in triathalons, iron man contests, body build , whatever. Riding about in/on a noisy modified form of transport only irritates other people, who then take a dislike to you.

[mataleo]

As far as i know, if you have a full system then you need a power commander or else your ECU compensates for the lack of O2 sensor (It is presuming it's still there), in other words you're likely losing power. Slip ons don't need it as the sensor is still there.

So it might sound better but performance wise it isn't. There are others on here that know more about this than me. Of course using a power commander voids your warranty, which is why places like Kawasaki usually only sell slip ons.

Asian ninjas got o2 sensors in ehaust pipes it comprehendes it well.

US ninjas no o2 sensor u need PC

[robblok]

Why do people need make so much noise with their street bikes/cars ? Size of penis? Low self esteem? There must be a logical reason for this strange phenomina.

Perhaps u will not get it anyway.

Its a man's thing. Racing and all that.

And theres other reasons like weight reduction, more power, cosmetic look, for me was even that inwould be selling it soon so i think pimped up a bit will go easier...

What a strange comment. "It's a man's thing". To me a man's thing is to have a fit strong body, humility,good manners, self confidence and respect for other peoples space. If you want the adrenaline feel of a racing bike, race, don't inflict the "macho" noise on the rest of the population and become a "wanna be, look at me". I look upon people who do this with a hint of sadness at their lack of self esteem. I am amused by the "Big Bike" brigade , with their very noisy exhausts. If you want to do "a man's thing", then race, play a hard sport, fight (in a ring or on a mat), take part in triathalons, iron man contests, body build , whatever. Riding about in/on a noisy modified form of transport only irritates other people, who then take a dislike to you.

I have changed my exhaust to sound slightly louder nicer though I agree about excessive sounds that is why i shopped around one that would not cause too much change. I like how the new exhaust looks and sound and it is a bit louder but not much. I do draw the line at excessive sounds but that is different for everyone.

[ll2]

Why do people need make so much noise with their street bikes/cars ? Size of penis? Low self esteem? There must be a logical reason for this strange phenomina.

Perhaps u will not get it anyway.

Its a man's thing. Racing and all that.

And theres other reasons like weight reduction, more power, cosmetic look, for me was even that inwould be selling it soon so i think pimped up a bit will go easier...

What a strange comment. "It's a man's thing". To me a man's thing is to have a fit strong body, humility,good manners, self confidence and respect for other peoples space. If you want the adrenaline feel of a racing bike, race, don't inflict the "macho" noise on the rest of the population and become a "wanna be, look at me". I look upon people who do this with a hint of sadness at their lack of self esteem. I am amused by the "Big Bike" brigade , with their very noisy exhausts. If you want to do "a man's thing", then race, play a hard sport, fight (in a ring or on a mat), take part in triathalons, iron man contests, body build , whatever. Riding about in/on a noisy modified form of transport only irritates other people, who then take a dislike to you.

bikes of course are not only man thing and many ladies also ride these things - with their louder than stock pipes!

still, sorry man, but if louder pipes piss you off, basically you can use ear plugs.

or go report that bike to the authorities, police wherever.

but who are you to judge?

What about all those cars, trucks, planes, lorries, tuk tuks, tak taks and boats?

is it only motorbikes are disturbing you as stated in your posts? If yes, than you have personal problems with motorbikes and riders i believe and you are not fair too which being man means being fair as well.

On top of that, when you hear a pipe noise, how do you know if it is within legal limits or not? you know they use precise measuring tools to test the decibel level. So, you might have very sensitive ears, aye?

So, it is like most probably even a stock cbr1000rr or a ducati monster is loud for you even when they are at legal decibel limits. so what do you say, we dont use them for the sake of having good manners?

Moreover, have you ever been wiped out by a texting car driver? or did some of your fiends were killed by careless truck drivers claiming they did not hear and see you?

if no, that i dont expect you to understand it so earplugs are your way.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ll2

[mataleo]

Why do people need make so much noise with their street bikes/cars ? Size of penis? Low self esteem? There must be a logical reason for this strange phenomina.

Perhaps u will not get it anyway.

Its a man's thing. Racing and all that.

And theres other reasons like weight reduction, more power, cosmetic look, for me was even that inwould be selling it soon so i think pimped up a bit will go easier...

What a strange comment. "It's a man's thing". To me a man's thing is to have a fit strong body, humility,good manners, self confidence and respect for other peoples space. If you want the adrenaline feel of a racing bike, race, don't inflict the "macho" noise on the rest of the population and become a "wanna be, look at me". I look upon people who do this with a hint of sadness at their lack of self esteem. I am amused by the "Big Bike" brigade , with their very noisy exhausts. If you want to do "a man's thing", then race, play a hard sport, fight (in a ring or on a mat), take part in triathalons, iron man contests, body build , whatever. Riding about in/on a noisy modified form of transport only irritates other people, who then take a dislike to you.

bikes of course are not only man thing and many ladies also ride these things - with their louder than stock pipes!

still, sorry man, but if louder pipes piss you off, basically you can use ear plugs.

or go report that bike to the authorities, police wherever.

but who are you to judge?

What about all those cars, trucks, planes, lorries, tuk tuks, tak taks and boats?

is it only motorbikes are disturbing you as stated in your posts? If yes, than you have personal problems with motorbikes and riders i believe and you are not fair too which being man means being fair as well.

On top of that, when you hear a pipe noise, how do you know if it is within legal limits or not? you know they use precise measuring tools to test the decibel level. So, you might have very sensitive ears, aye?

So, it is like most probably even a stock cbr1000rr or a ducati monster is loud for you even when they are at legal decibel limits. so what do you say, we dont use them for the sake of having good manners?

Moreover, have you ever been wiped out by a texting car driver? or did some of your fiends were killed by careless truck drivers claiming they did not hear and see you?

if no, that i dont expect you to understand it so earplugs are your way.

In thailand legal limit is 94dB that is same as racing bikes much louder then my bike.

You can complain as much as you want thais got high limit if you speak noise.

[dave_boo]

As far as i know, if you have a full system then you need a power commander or else your ECU compensates for the lack of O2 sensor (It is presuming it's still there), in other words you're likely losing power. Slip ons don't need it as the sensor is still there.

So it might sound better but performance wise it isn't. There are others on here that know more about this than me. Of course using a power commander voids your warranty, which is why places like Kawasaki usually only sell slip ons.

Asian ninjas got o2 sensors in ehaust pipes it comprehendes it well.

US ninjas no o2 sensor u need PC

I'll start at the bottom and work my way up.

The US Ninjas that didn't have an O₂ sensor were carb'd...thus they couldn't use a PowerCommander. They do need to be rejetted after an exhaust change.

The FI Ninjas may be able to compensate for the new exhaust...but they're set lean for emissions and why not open them up to take advantage of your shiny new can?

Performance doesn't increase that much. Installing the PCIV on my Ninja 250 had off idle throttle a little better (was more like a throttle and less like an off/on switch at small opening) and fattened up the mid-range. I'm not going to say it got a lot of power, but I could tell it wasn't struggling as much at the 80-100 km/h like it was breathing better. Looking at the maps it's easy to tell they enriched that area of the table.

Explaining how a PC works takes time. Basically it tells the ECU that there is a correct ratio of exhaust gasses. It does this by a series of resistors that plug into the harness where the O₂ sensor was plugged in. It then captures the signal from the harness where it plugged into the fuel injectors and either increases or decreases the amount of time the injectors stay open. That is the most basic operation it does. Obviously it can be expanded into timing and quick shift and even an "Autotune" which takes it from a closed system where the ECU thinks everything is just fine and the PC dumbly adds to it to an open system where the PC uses feedback from the Autotune unit to react dynamically. Yes Dorothy, a PC equipped bike can actually run more lean than a bog standard bike in certain circumstances.

[dave_boo]

In thailand legal limit is 94dB that is same as racing bikes much louder then my bike.

You can complain as much as you want thais got high limit if you speak noise.

94dB is a stupid high limit. That's like a jackhammer at 2 meters.

And yes, I know Thailand is noisy. Took them years to get rid of the tannoy outside the house.

[mania]

As far as i know, if you have a full system then you need a power commander or else your ECU compensates for the lack of O2 sensor (It is presuming it's still there), in other words you're likely losing power. Slip ons don't need it as the sensor is still there.

So it might sound better but performance wise it isn't. There are others on here that know more about this than me. Of course using a power commander voids your warranty, which is why places like Kawasaki usually only sell slip ons.

Asian ninjas got o2 sensors in ehaust pipes it comprehendes it well.

US ninjas no o2 sensor u need PC

I'll start at the bottom and work my way up.

The US Ninjas that didn't have an O₂ sensor were carb'd...thus they couldn't use a PowerCommander. They do need to be rejetted after an exhaust change.

The FI Ninjas may be able to compensate for the new exhaust...but they're set lean for emissions and why not open them up to take advantage of your shiny new can?

Performance doesn't increase that much. Installing the PCIV on my Ninja 250 had off idle throttle a little better (was more like a throttle and less like an off/on switch at small opening) and fattened up the mid-range. I'm not going to say it got a lot of power, but I could tell it wasn't struggling as much at the 80-100 km/h like it was breathing better. Looking at the maps it's easy to tell they enriched that area of the table.

Explaining how a PC works takes time. Basically it tells the ECU that there is a correct ratio of exhaust gasses. It does this by a series of resistors that plug into the harness where the O₂ sensor was plugged in. It then captures the signal from the harness where it plugged into the fuel injectors and either increases or decreases the amount of time the injectors stay open. That is the most basic operation it does. Obviously it can be expanded into timing and quick shift and even an "Autotune" which takes it from a closed system where the ECU thinks everything is just fine and the PC dumbly adds to it to an open system where the PC uses feedback from the Autotune unit to react dynamically. Yes Dorothy, a PC equipped bike can actually run more lean than a bog standard bike in certain circumstances.

Actually no

US FI Ninja's even now have an O2 sensor in California as the O2 is basically an EPA type driven deal

Most Other states do not have it & thus in the US sometimes folks get confused when ordering a full system as to whether

they need it or not ( The threaded bung for the sensor in the header)

See US service manual below showing both types

Mataleo you are a little confused about need of PC

As others have said it is mainly to change fuel map settings in the Open loop or mid-higher rpm ranges

An O2 sensor is dealing with the closed loop or quite low rpm setting

Most Controllers PC etc recommend removing the O2 sensor anyway since it causes a confusion for the re-mapping

They just disconnect the O2 & the hole plugged with a threaded plug or can even leave O2 sensor in but disconnected

The harness side of the O2 sensor gets a shunting plug consisting of basically a couple 330k resistors to tell the ECU it has a proper mix

in the closed loop & to make no changes

The actual work of the EFI Controller is done at the injectors themselves & the throttle position sensor

which is where the harness plugs inline with those items.

Edited December 3, 2014 by mania

[dave_boo]

As far as i know, if you have a full system then you need a power commander or else your ECU compensates for the lack of O2 sensor (It is presuming it's still there), in other words you're likely losing power. Slip ons don't need it as the sensor is still there.

So it might sound better but performance wise it isn't. There are others on here that know more about this than me. Of course using a power commander voids your warranty, which is why places like Kawasaki usually only sell slip ons.

Asian ninjas got o2 sensors in ehaust pipes it comprehendes it well.

US ninjas no o2 sensor u need PC

I'll start at the bottom and work my way up.

The US Ninjas that didn't have an O₂ sensor were carb'd...thus they couldn't use a PowerCommander. They do need to be rejetted after an exhaust change.

The FI Ninjas may be able to compensate for the new exhaust...but they're set lean for emissions and why not open them up to take advantage of your shiny new can?

Performance doesn't increase that much. Installing the PCIV on my Ninja 250 had off idle throttle a little better (was more like a throttle and less like an off/on switch at small opening) and fattened up the mid-range. I'm not going to say it got a lot of power, but I could tell it wasn't struggling as much at the 80-100 km/h like it was breathing better. Looking at the maps it's easy to tell they enriched that area of the table.

Explaining how a PC works takes time. Basically it tells the ECU that there is a correct ratio of exhaust gasses. It does this by a series of resistors that plug into the harness where the O₂ sensor was plugged in. It then captures the signal from the harness where it plugged into the fuel injectors and either increases or decreases the amount of time the injectors stay open. That is the most basic operation it does. Obviously it can be expanded into timing and quick shift and even an "Autotune" which takes it from a closed system where the ECU thinks everything is just fine and the PC dumbly adds to it to an open system where the PC uses feedback from the Autotune unit to react dynamically. Yes Dorothy, a PC equipped bike can actually run more lean than a bog standard bike in certain circumstances.

Actually no

US FI Ninja's even now have an O2 sensor in California as the O2 is basically an EPA type driven deal

Most Other states do not have it & thus in the US sometimes folks get confused when ordering a full system as to whether

they need it or not ( The threaded bung for the sensor in the header)

Mataleo you are a little confused about need of PC

As others have said it is mainly to change fuel map settings in the Open loop or mid-higher rpm ranges

An O2 sensor is dealing with the closed loop or quite low rpm setting

Most Controllers PC etc recommend removing teh O2 sensor anyway since it causes a confusion for the re-mapping

They just disconnect the O2 if using a slip on or it is gone if using a full system & the hole plugged with a threaded plug

The harness side of the O2 sensor gets a shunting plug consisting of basically a couple 330k resistors to tell the ECU it has a proper mix

in the closed loop & to make no changes

The actual work of the EFI Controller is done at the injectors themselves & the throttle position sensor

which is where the harness plugs inline with those items.

Check the tense I used...I was discussing older carb'd versions of the bike that didn't require an O₂ sensor. The fact you pointed out the "FI Ninja's" means you realised I was talking about the carb'd versions.

**edit**

Just so I don't look like a complete arse..what years does that manual cover?

Edited December 3, 2014 by dave_boo

[mania]

Check the tense I used...I was discussing older carb'd versions of the bike that didn't require an O₂ sensor. The fact you pointed out the "FI Ninja's" means you realised I was talking about the carb'd versions.

**edit**

Just so I don't look like a complete arse..what years does that manual cover?

Yeah all I saw was this

The US Ninjas that didn't have an O2 sensor were carb'd

What years? Did US have a 250FI? Anyway it is a Ninja 300 so from start of production 2013? Not sure as have not been in US since 2012

Anyway no need to get too far off topic ...again

Simple question he had & hopefully now he knows a bit about what the O2 does

Edited December 3, 2014 by mania

[dave_boo]

Check the tense I used...I was discussing older carb'd versions of the bike that didn't require an O₂ sensor. The fact you pointed out the "FI Ninja's" means you realised I was talking about the carb'd versions.

**edit**

Just so I don't look like a complete arse..what years does that manual cover?

Yeah all I saw was this

The US Ninjas that didn't have an O2 sensor were carb'd

What years? Did US have a 250FI? Anyway it is a Ninja 300 so from start of production 2013? Not sure as have not been in US since 2012

Anyway no need to get too far off topic ...again

Simple question he had & hopefully now he knows a bit about what the O2 does

I believe the 2013 was FI 250.

[mataleo]

As far as i know, if you have a full system then you need a power commander or else your ECU compensates for the lack of O2 sensor (It is presuming it's still there), in other words you're likely losing power. Slip ons don't need it as the sensor is still there.

So it might sound better but performance wise it isn't. There are others on here that know more about this than me. Of course using a power commander voids your warranty, which is why places like Kawasaki usually only sell slip ons.

Asian ninjas got o2 sensors in ehaust pipes it comprehendes it well.

US ninjas no o2 sensor u need PC

I'll start at the bottom and work my way up.

The US Ninjas that didn't have an O₂ sensor were carb'd...thus they couldn't use a PowerCommander. They do need to be rejetted after an exhaust change.

The FI Ninjas may be able to compensate for the new exhaust...but they're set lean for emissions and why not open them up to take advantage of your shiny new can?

Performance doesn't increase that much. Installing the PCIV on my Ninja 250 had off idle throttle a little better (was more like a throttle and less like an off/on switch at small opening) and fattened up the mid-range. I'm not going to say it got a lot of power, but I could tell it wasn't struggling as much at the 80-100 km/h like it was breathing better. Looking at the maps it's easy to tell they enriched that area of the table.

Explaining how a PC works takes time. Basically it tells the ECU that there is a correct ratio of exhaust gasses. It does this by a series of resistors that plug into the harness where the O₂ sensor was plugged in. It then captures the signal from the harness where it plugged into the fuel injectors and either increases or decreases the amount of time the injectors stay open. That is the most basic operation it does. Obviously it can be expanded into timing and quick shift and even an "Autotune" which takes it from a closed system where the ECU thinks everything is just fine and the PC dumbly adds to it to an open system where the PC uses feedback from the Autotune unit to react dynamically. Yes Dorothy, a PC equipped bike can actually run more lean than a bog standard bike in certain circumstances.

I got ninja 300

It got bit more power now not less for sure

No PC no problem

Thing is PC cost like 500USD i skip that as bike works fine.

Theres no dynos in pattaya and not many in bkk too

[papa al]

I've been advised that Pattaya Big Wing has a dyno available for a fee.

[dave_boo]

I got ninja 300

It got bit more power now not less for sure

No PC no problem

Thing is PC cost like 500USD i skip that as bike works fine.

Theres no dynos in pattaya and not many in bkk too

Like they say "Up to you man".

Removing the snorkel, changing out to a full system and running without the PCIV didn't add that much power. Adding the PCIV didn't add that much power, but the bike sure felt better throughout the low to mid range.

Papa al already told you about the dyno in Pattaya. There is another, which from their Facebook page looks like it's ran by a foreigner (american from the status updates?).

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pattaya-Dyno/130044263833159