US: Cleveland police shoot dead boy, 12, carrying fake gun

[Baghdad]

Paranoid I would say

[BritManToo]

SNGLIFE, "I'm your Huckleberry". That invitation still goes. Oh, I don't wear bars etc. on my shoulders and I no longer carry a shield. But, in your case "Sir" is the correct way to address me. Where in my post did I say I encouraged somebody else's son to embrace deadly weapons? Not that I wouldn't teach them how to use and how to be safe with them as I did my own children. Never shot at anybody that didn't need shooting at. But, I did feed a family off the Elk, Deer, and other wild game I killed and made a bit of money guiding hunters. That boy would be alive today if somebody had taught him gun safety. You know nothing about the real world and I could care less what you think about me because you know nothing in reality about me. CMK, I know lots and lots of not just liberal but militant USMC Vets. About half of VVAW was made up of Marines, many Sgts and Cpls with a lot of combat time. We were the ones that forced John Kerry out for not being militant enough. Many Marines have working brain cells, including some Generals that opposed the US's follies into hell. Just as an aside, I had access to all the IQ's in the crotch, there were a lot of dumb asses. The police in America (spelled correctly and without political connotation) are militarized, that's a fact, no I won't post any links. Hell they have more equipment than the USMC did in Vietnam and I read quite a few say more that they had in the latest ill begotten wars. With the equipment comes the mindset of an occupying force, not a police force that is there to serve and protect. This is a major problem today and I hope not the cause of this boys death. All the evidence is not in. From what I read, it was justified, that may or may not be true after all evidence is in. One way or the other, a tragedy.

As the boy didn't have a gun, I'm thinking he didn't need lessons in gun safety.

The police did have guns and clearly need lessons on when, and when not to draw them.

Lesson 1 being, don't draw your gun and shoot children.

[sgtsabai]

The boy had a replica pellet gun that looks just like the real thing. The orange identifier was removed. There are pictures in earlier posts, check them out. I've seen these replicas. Unlike the BB/pellet guns of my childhood, these look just like the real thing and no I don't like that. I would hate to think I shot somebody because they were stupid enough to pull one on me. Lessons in gun safety would have taught (hopefully) him not to be waving a pellet gun that looks just like the real one. Gun safety would have taught him not to have even had it where he was at. The lesson here is don't draw on the cops. And contrary to some peoples knowledge, kids do shoot people. We have on here a bunch of people that know nothing about guns and will never know anything about guns but have formed their opinion without any knowledge of the real world, policing in the US or the US period. When I was in law enforcement and traveling out of jurisdiction etc. I was pulled over a couple of times for basically a check. My first moves were turn the engine off, hands in plain sight on the wheel and when the officer asked for drivers license I would say "For your safety and mine, my service weapon is here beside me. I need to unbuckle and move it to get to my wallet." With approval, I moved it very, very carefully. It is dark that, officer doesn't know me from Adam and isn't going to take a chance. He is unsnapped and ready, his life is at stake as were those officers in Cleveland. It's a scary world out there. We don't know all the facts in this shooting, but everything so far is pointing to a tragic but justified shooting.

[Bernard Flint]

Just hope he isnt black, could be racism again.A good excuse for a new flatscreen and microwave methinks.

If a black cop has killed a honky no probs

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory, troll posts and replies removed. Please stay on topic and refrain from making inflammatory remarks.

[cup-O-coffee]

Just hope he isnt black, could be racism again.A good excuse for a new flatscreen and microwave methinks.

If a black cop has killed a honky no probs

I looked up the laws for Cleveland Ohio and it is illegal to bring BB guns into public areas. This law was created 20 years ago when another black boy (14 years old Jeffrey Bell) did the same thing and got shot dead by police.

So a law was made back then that if the blacks simply followed it, would guarantee that they do not get shot on account of illegally bringing a BB gun to a public place and furthermore brandishing and sticking the BB gun (with a high velocity pellet) in the faces of toddlers and young kids.

So there you go. Laws are made to protect Darwinian award winners, but you simply cannot make a law to force them to obey. And even when you are a law enforcement officer and pointing a gun at a Darwinian award winner and telling them to obey, they still do not cooperate, and rather instead choose to brandish the (to all intents and purposes and unbeknownst to the officer) weapon and make like they are going to shoot.

And no matter what happens after that, if you, the police officer are forced to shoot and kill the the Darwinian award winner, then their Darwinian runner ups will disobey the laws and riot and murder, maim and kill whites with a willful intention to these ends. Google it because I am tired.

What alternatives are there, then?

They simply refuse to listen and obey!

EDIT: https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/city/oh/Cleveland/part06.html

627.10 Possessing Certain Weapons at or About Public Places

(a) No person shall knowingly carry, have in his or her possession or ready at hand any handgun, BB gun, pellet gun, dangerous ordnance, shotgun, rifle, knife having a blade two and one-half (2-1/2) inches in length or longer, brass knuckles, cestus, billy, karate stick, blackjack, sword or saber while at or about a public place.

(Ord. No. 1361-01. Passed 8-15-01, eff. 8-24-01)

627.09 Possessing Deadly Weapons on Public Property (C.O.C. According to what a Police officer would be thinking when responding to a 911 call of a man brandishing what appears to be a handgun)

(Ord. No. 483-75. Passed 6-9-75, eff. 6-9-75)

625.01 Definitions

As used in this chapter:

(a) “Deception”

Edited November 25, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[NanLaew]

Just hope he isnt black, could be racism again.A good excuse for a new flatscreen and microwave methinks.

If a black cop has killed a honky no probs

I looked up the laws for Cleveland Ohio and it is illegal to bring BB guns into public areas. This law was created 20 years ago when another black boy (14 years old Jeffrey Bell) did the same thing and got shot dead by police.

So a law was made back then that if the blacks simply followed it, would guarantee that they do not get shot on account of illegally bringing a BB gun to a public place and furthermore brandishing and sticking the BB gun (with a high velocity pellet) in the faces of toddlers and young kids.

So there you go. Laws are made to protect Darwinian award winners, but you simply cannot make a law to force them to obey. And even when you are a law enforcement officer and pointing a gun at a Darwinian award winner and telling them to obey, they still do not cooperate, and rather instead choose to brandish the (to all intents and purposes and unbeknownst to the officer) weapon and make like they are going to shoot.

And no matter what happens after that, if you, the police officer are forced to shoot and kill the the Darwinian award winner, then their Darwinian runner ups will disobey the laws and riot and murder, maim and kill whites with a willful intention to these ends. Google it because I am tired.

What alternatives are there, then?

They simply refuse to listen and obey!

EDIT: https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/city/oh/Cleveland/part06.html

627.10 Possessing Certain Weapons at or About Public Places

(a) No person shall knowingly carry, have in his or her possession or ready at hand any handgun, BB gun, pellet gun, dangerous ordnance, shotgun, rifle, knife having a blade two and one-half (2-1/2) inches in length or longer, brass knuckles, cestus, billy, karate stick, blackjack, sword or saber while at or about a public place.

(Ord. No. 1361-01. Passed 8-15-01, eff. 8-24-01)

627.09 Possessing Deadly Weapons on Public Property (C.O.C. According to what a Police officer would be thinking when responding to a 911 call of a man brandishing what appears to be a handgun)

(Ord. No. 483-75. Passed 6-9-75, eff. 6-9-75)

625.01 Definitions

As used in this chapter:

(a) “Deception”

If ever I did 'likes', this post would get them all.

Thanks for googling that. Meanwhile, from the BBC.

"Violent protests were not in the spirit of Michael Brown, Mr Sharpton added, saying the young man would not "be remembered for the ashes of buildings burning in Ferguson".

Instead, he said Mr Brown's family would push for new legislation to protect citizens and support a "Michael Brown law" that required all police officers to wear body video cameras."

I wonder how long it will take mainstream media to have a reporter savvy enough to ask Al Sharpton if he is aware of the "Jeffrey Bell Law" and its precedent. But that has to wait until he has finished milking the racist venom in Ferguson.

I am tired of this 'keeping the black man down' horseshit too.

Edited November 25, 2014 by NanLaew

[uptheos]

I don't know if anyone else has seen the video footage, but it's difficult to tell he is only 12. The way he is swinging the pistol and pointing it as to shoot looks dangerous and there's no way of knowing it wasn't a deadly weapon. I'm not really sure what options the police had in this situation, bit of a catch22, if they did nothing and the gun was real they would be blamed if someone got killed or injured and they are being blamed for doing the alternative.

Life as a US cop sure isn't easy.

[Mosha]

BBC has been plating the voice recording which the police released at the parents request.

[Mosha]

The cops did the right thing. They gave instructions to the boy and he refused to obey.

What if the gun was real and another child was killed?

Children generally have toy guns..

The assumption of any police in this situation should be, it's a toy.

Note to KB,

Children often don't do as their told, that isn't a valid reason to kill them.

The police claimed to have told him to put his ar,s in the air 3 times. Watching the video they must have been talking that fast he didn't understand them. They shot him within seconds of the car stopping at very close range. Then they said he was possibly around 20. (years of age). Must have been a big lad.

[Asiantravel]

sick

Once the police car pulls up, the rest of the events play out pretty quickly. The police officer in the passenger seat gets out and Tamir appears to lift his shirt with his right hand. He then falls down; Tomba says the fatal shots were fired within two seconds of the car pulling up.

full video

http://www.inquisitr.com/1637763/cleveland-police-release-video-of-tamir-rice-shooting-disturbing-content-warning/

[Chicog]

That was handled in such a gung-ho and cowboy manner they should at least be facing charges of manslaughter.

[Ulysses G.]

Supposedly, the police were not told of the possibility that it was a fake gun or that the suspect might be a child. This is a really unfortunate event.

[F430murci]

Seeing the video. This one is close. Kid should have stayed seated, but walked toward the car. Definitely reached for gun. Could have been about to throw it down, but we will never know. Rookie cop was definitely scared for his life as dude hit the ground as shooting. Rookie cop was visibly upset moments later when standing near the back if the car.

A sad situation all around created by the war zone mentality caused by black gang bangers in rural areas. What is the solution? There is none unless we just hand the streets over in the rough areas and stop policing them.

Take away a cop's ability to protect themselves and dead cops or no more cops willing to serve in these rough areas. Unless you have walked in a cop's shoes you should not judge. The vast majority are so afraid of any action involving blacks because no matter what they do they get accused of bs and you guys have no idea how much administrative red tape they then have to go through. They are not targeting blacks. To the contrary, they dread when having to do with bad situations involving blacks.

My conclusion here, cop reacted out of fear and not hate. The environment he worked in and his experience level caused this, not hate.

[ronz28]

Throw the billionaire toy gun manufacturer and retailer Chief Executive Officers in jail for manslaughter for profiting from selling these realistic toy guns with easily removable orange tags and causing this fiasco.

[Asiantravel]

Seeing the video. This one is close. Kid should have stayed seated, but walked toward the car. Definitely reached for gun. Could have been about to throw it down, but we will never know. Rookie cop was definitely scared for his life as dude hit the ground as shooting. Rookie cop was visibly upset moments later when standing near the back if the car.

A sad situation all around created by the war zone mentality caused by black gang bangers in rural areas. What is the solution? There is none unless we just hand the streets over in the rough areas and stop policing them.

Take away a cop's ability to protect themselves and dead cops or no more cops willing to serve in these rough areas. Unless you have walked in a cop's shoes you should not judge. The vast majority are so afraid of any action involving blacks because no matter what they do they get accused of bs and you guys have no idea how much administrative red tape they then have to go through. They are not targeting blacks. To the contrary, they dread when having to do with bad situations involving blacks.

My conclusion here, cop reacted out of fear and not hate. The environment he worked in and his experience level caused this, not hate.

What happened on USA? How has the image of American police officers gone from respected community friendly officials to those in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GncaM_lt3-E

Edited November 28, 2014 by Asiantravel

[EyesWideOpen]

A bit of advice from Chris Rock..

[bunnydrops]

Changing times. When I was 12 I could walk into town with my rifle and buy ammo for it and no one would bat an eye.

This is what happen in my town of about 20,000 in Oregon a couple of years ago. We had a police chief, a good guy. Even before he was chief, he would walk the streets, talk to the kids and the homeless. One day there was a stand off between this 20 year old with a knife and a couple of the towns police with about 3 meters between them. The chief came running and told the officers to holster their weapons to lessen the situation. The chief talked the boy down. The officers filed a complaint saying he had put their lives in danger. The chief was forced to resign.

When I was 18 I had the police hold a gun on me. I was driving home from a dance late one night,when my dimmers stopped working. You remember the old foot dimmer switch. I pulled off the road near a small store and was trying to see if I could get it to work when two sheriff cars pulled up. They jumped out and pointed their guns at me and had me put my hands on the hood of the car. As it turned out, they thought I was burglarizing the store and wondered who I was signaling.

Anyway, I know this is all anecdotal. Being in law enforcement is a hard job. But I think the training has lost touch with the people they are to protect to the point the people have to fear the " shoot first, ask questions later" mentality.

[copa8]

Just hope he isnt black, could be racism again.A good excuse for a new flatscreen and microwave methinks.

If a black cop has killed a honky no probs

I looked up the laws for Cleveland Ohio and it is illegal to bring BB guns into public areas. This law was created 20 years ago when another black boy (14 years old Jeffrey Bell) did the same thing and got shot dead by police.

So a law was made back then that if the blacks simply followed it, would guarantee that they do not get shot on account of illegally bringing a BB gun to a public place and furthermore brandishing and sticking the BB gun (with a high velocity pellet) in the faces of toddlers and young kids.

So there you go. Laws are made to protect Darwinian award winners, but you simply cannot make a law to force them to obey. And even when you are a law enforcement officer and pointing a gun at a Darwinian award winner and telling them to obey, they still do not cooperate, and rather instead choose to brandish the (to all intents and purposes and unbeknownst to the officer) weapon and make like they are going to shoot.

And no matter what happens after that, if you, the police officer are forced to shoot and kill the the Darwinian award winner, then their Darwinian runner ups will disobey the laws and riot and murder, maim and kill whites with a willful intention to these ends. Google it because I am tired.

What alternatives are there, then?

They simply refuse to listen and obey!

EDIT: https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/city/oh/Cleveland/part06.html

627.10 Possessing Certain Weapons at or About Public Places

(a) No person shall knowingly carry, have in his or her possession or ready at hand any handgun, BB gun, pellet gun, dangerous ordnance, shotgun, rifle, knife having a blade two and one-half (2-1/2) inches in length or longer, brass knuckles, cestus, billy, karate stick, blackjack, sword or saber while at or about a public place.

(Ord. No. 1361-01. Passed 8-15-01, eff. 8-24-01)

627.09 Possessing Deadly Weapons on Public Property (C.O.C. According to what a Police officer would be thinking when responding to a 911 call of a man brandishing what appears to be a handgun)

(Ord. No. 483-75. Passed 6-9-75, eff. 6-9-75)

625.01 Definitions

As used in this chapter:

(a) “Deception”

If ever I did 'likes', this post would get them all.

Thanks for googling that. Meanwhile, from the BBC.

"Violent protests were not in the spirit of Michael Brown, Mr Sharpton added, saying the young man would not "be remembered for the ashes of buildings burning in Ferguson".

Instead, he said Mr Brown's family would push for new legislation to protect citizens and support a "Michael Brown law" that required all police officers to wear body video cameras."

I wonder how long it will take mainstream media to have a reporter savvy enough to ask Al Sharpton if he is aware of the "Jeffrey Bell Law" and its precedent. But that has to wait until he has finished milking the racist venom in Ferguson.

I am tired of this 'keeping the black man down' horseshit too.

Why can't blacks act more like Asian-Americans. Majority came to the US with nothing and within 1 generation their children have risen to middle/upper-middle class status. I have a friend who's parents emigrated from war-torn Vietnam with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Through hard work and sacrifice, her parents put her and her brother through college (NYU) and are both now successful (one's in law and the other's in medicine). Asian-Americans faces discrimination and am often target of hate crimes, but you never seem them riot or loot.

[Daffy D]

Why can't blacks act more like Asian-Americans. Majority came to the US with nothing and within 1 generation their children have risen to middle/upper-middle class status. I have a friend who's parents emigrated from war-torn Vietnam with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Through hard work and sacrifice, her parents put her and her brother through college (NYU) and are both now successful (one's in law and the other's in medicine). Asian-Americans faces discrimination and am often target of hate crimes, but you never seem them riot or loot.

Because they keep playing the Slave and Colonial card, and we go along with it for fear of being called racists or worse.

It's time they stopped the blame game and got on with making something of themselves.

A black man rose to highest position not only in the land but the world so stop complaining that that your distant ancestors might have been slave is what is holding you back.

[mercman24]

WHITE GUYS GET SHOT AND KILLED ALSO but they do no use this as an excuse to go rioting and stealing other peoples property, and causing millions of dollars worth of damage, agree on the racist card, dam pathetic, many year ago when i worked in a factory, the "black" guys generally started the banter, nothing racial at all, just good adult jesting, but today if a white person started a bit of banter, out would come the Racist card,

[NeverSure]

What happened on USA? How has the image of American police officers gone from respected community friendly officials to those in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GncaM_lt3-E

Do you really think that police today in the areas we are discussing are dealing with people like that little boy and the man behind the counter, regardless of color?

Did the police change, or did their circumstances?