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Michael Brown shooting: Ferguson jury reaches verdict


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A white police officer will not face charges over the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager in August.

Did I get the smell of racism somewhere?

coffee1.gif

Was it an all white Grand Jury?

No

Then as it was unanimous, I don't think it's racism.

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I'm no hippie, but a little food for thought:

I guess it wont bite, one the 'Merica boys in here - but maybe, normal people will reflect a little on the numbers mentioned. wai.gif

Where is this happening?

In which 3rd world, undeveloped, Asian country?

RTP, they are real bad, aren't they?

hit-the-fan.gif.pagespeed.ce.6UelFDbFNJ.hit-the-fan.gif.pagespeed.ce.6UelFDbFNJ.

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" but i believe they have things like pepper spray, tasers, extendable batons and ziplocks. sometimes even handcuffs. "thumbsup.gif

In the announcement on television given by the prosecutor this morning, he didn't seem able to answer many of the reporters questions because of procedural limitations but I'm waiting to read or hear more about the circumstances regarding the different stages of the six shots that were fired.

From the moment the first shot was fired by the police officer up until the sixth shot there must have been some discernible loss of bodily functions by the victim? In other words, no matter how threatening Michael Brown was at the beginning, after he received the first two or three shots surely as an unarmed man he would have been rendered considerably less able to cause serious injury to the police officer?

And if that still wasn't the case, why didn't the police officer substitute his gun for a taser or some other less lethal weapon?

Or why didn't the police officer fire at his two ankles or his two legs?

Yeah, Maybe Officer Wilson should have shot Brown's foot or at least his big toe so he couldn't get away. I think you have been watching too many police movies.

No because usually in the police movies the baddies are armedermm.gif

In my country a police officer has an obligation not to take the life of someone unless it is absolutely necessary

Then, are you assuming that it wasn't absolutely necessary?

Advice to those taking either side of the argument: do you plan to read the grand jury documents that have been published, or are ya'll going to simply listen to your favorite biased news outlet and parrot their rhetoric?

I don't know what happened, neither do you. The individuals who understand this the best are the 12 jurors who heard the case: 9 white and 3 black if race really matters.

I've download the testimony and I'm going to start reading. If you want the truth, I'd suggest doing the same.

" Then, are you assuming that it wasn't absolutely necessary? "

on that note………………….ermm.gif

3. The trigger: It is now clear 12 shots were fired by Officer Wilson, the last of which struck Mr Brown in the top of the head. He was hit 7 times. The deadly encounter started while Officer Wilson was seated in his police cruiser. The first two shots were fired by the officer while still in the car. Most witnesses said that at that time, Mr Brown was leaning through the driver’s side window. The victim’s blood was found inside and outside the car and on the officer’s clothing. A bullet was lodged in the armrest

4. Short time, long time: The time between Officer Wilson spotting Mr Brown and the last shot being fired was 90 seconds. The time Mr Brown's body was left lying on the street: 4 hours.

5. Outside the car: Ten of the twelve shots were fired after Officer Wilson got out of his cruiser. Mr Brown’s body was found 153 feet away. All the fatal shots were fired when Mr Brown was away from the police car. While some witnesses said he was fleeing the car when they were fired, a greater number of witnesses said they came as the victim was moving towards the officer, McCulloch said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/michael-brown-shooting-ten-things-we-know--or-know-better-now-the-ferguson-grand-jurys-work-is-over-9881046.html

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A white police officer will not face charges over the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager in August.

Did I get the smell of racism somewhere?

coffee1.gif

Was it an all white Grand Jury?

No

Then as it was unanimous, I don't think it's racism.

A white police officer will not face charges over the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager in August.

vs

A police officer will not face charges over the fatal shooting of an unarmed teenager in August.

Very specific descriptions.

(which are bashed when appearing in a Thai (Asian) newspaper)

Maybe, due to my lack of comprehension of the English language

w00t.gif

Edit

Answer to post #25 here? >>> http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/778257-drunk-farang-assaults-flight-attendant-on-bangkok-airways-staff-claims/

Edited by ravip
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In a complete reversal of last August's televised hysteria, what CNN calls "the community" (aka blacks in Ferguson; whites are apparently not part of any community) is now complaining that the police were not strict enough and also complaining about the ABSENCE of the National Guard. Maybe the problem is "the community" and not the police or National Guard.

Maybe the problem is "the community"

Who are we to impose our values on them?

Pull out the police, ambulance and fire services and let them get on with it.

Even better employ all the local unemployed types as bricklayers and build a bloody wall round the place.

If they want to trash their backyard, have at it.

Send for one of the "out of towner" rent a mob types like either of the good Reverands, one for mayor the other for chief of police, and let them get on with it.

<deleted>, talk about Lord Of The Flies.

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In a complete reversal of last August's televised hysteria, what CNN calls "the community" (aka blacks in Ferguson; whites are apparently not part of any community) is now complaining that the police were not strict enough and also complaining about the ABSENCE of the National Guard. Maybe the problem is "the community" and not the police or National Guard.

Maybe the problem is "the community"

Who are we to impose our values on them?

Pull out the police, ambulance and fire services and let them get on with it.

Even better employ all the local unemployed types as bricklayers and build a bloody wall round the place.

If they want to trash their backyard, have at it.

Send for one of the "out of towner" rent a mob types like either of the good Reverands, one for mayor the other for chief of police, and let them get on with it.

<deleted>, talk about Lord Of The Flies.

Maybe the problem is "the community"

Correct me if I am wrong. Originally, at the inception "the community" was colored, weren't they?

So, which "community" is the problem?

Edit

Alzheimer's disease (AD)???

Edited by metisdead
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<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I still ask the question was it absolutely necessary for officer Wilson to have shot to kill, given that the victim was unarmed when the first few shots should have slowed the victim down considerably?

Witnesses said Brown had turned around and charged Officer Wilson. If it were me, I would not want to have to guess what was "necessary" with a huge, violent criminal rushing at me.

Sidestep? They do it in the NFL all the time - and those folks aren't shot yet.

"Sidestep"??? "NFL do it all the time"??? I bet if Officer Wilson had did what you just suggested, Brown would just have kept running until he ran into something and simply bumped his head. Wow, maybe you should be an instructor at the Missouri Police Academy. Great suggestion.

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In a complete reversal of last August's televised hysteria, what CNN calls "the community" (aka blacks in Ferguson; whites are apparently not part of any community) is now complaining that the police were not strict enough and also complaining about the ABSENCE of the National Guard. Maybe the problem is "the community" and not the police or National Guard.

Maybe the problem is "the community"

Who are we to impose our values on them?

Pull out the police, ambulance and fire services and let them get on with it.

Even better employ all the local unemployed types as bricklayers and build a bloody wall round the place.

If they want to trash their backyard, have at it.

Send for one of the "out of towner" rent a mob types like either of the good Reverands, one for mayor the other for chief of police, and let them get on with it.

<deleted>, talk about Lord Of The Flies.

Maybe the problem is "the community"

Correct me if I am wrong. Originally, at the inception "the community" was colored, weren't they?

So, which "community" is the problem?

Edit

Alzheimer's disease (AD)???

I have no idea, who are the ones tearing up, setting fire to and looting their own town, out of town agitators or locals?

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In a complete reversal of last August's televised hysteria, what CNN calls "the community" (aka blacks in Ferguson; whites are apparently not part of any community) is now complaining that the police were not strict enough and also complaining about the ABSENCE of the National Guard. Maybe the problem is "the community" and not the police or National Guard.

Maybe the problem is "the community"

Who are we to impose our values on them?

Pull out the police, ambulance and fire services and let them get on with it.

Even better employ all the local unemployed types as bricklayers and build a bloody wall round the place.

If they want to trash their backyard, have at it.

Send for one of the "out of towner" rent a mob types like either of the good Reverands, one for mayor the other for chief of police, and let them get on with it.

<deleted>, talk about Lord Of The Flies.

Maybe the problem is "the community"

Correct me if I am wrong. Originally, at the inception "the community" was colored, weren't they?

So, which "community" is the problem?

Edit

Alzheimer's disease (AD)???

I have no idea, who are the ones tearing up, setting fire to and looting their own town, out of town agitators or locals?

According to St. Louis County Police records, 61 people, including 13 teenagers were arrested overnight. The charges for those arrested include burglary, receiving stolen property, trespassing and unlawful assembly. Majority of the people arrested were from St. Louis County.

Watching CNN my Thai wife asked me what are they doing in East St. Louis. I told her it would be the same if I was angry at Thai police so I burn our house down. She said that's really crazy.
Edited by metisdead
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'Would you prefer "Gentle Giant?"'

Thats a silly reply.

I would have preffered 'Mr Brown', that would have shown some respect. But I figure there's not much of that over there.

If Brown had shown respect for the store clerk and Officer Wilson, instead of assaulting them, this incident would have never happened. I doubt Brown even knew the meaning of respect.

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'Would you prefer "Gentle Giant?"'

Thats a silly reply.

I would have preffered 'Mr Brown', that would have shown some respect. But I figure there's not much of that over there.

If Brown had shown respect for the store clerk and Officer Wilson, instead of assaulting them, this incident would have never happened. I doubt Brown even knew the meaning of respect.

How true. Absolutely true.

If everyone of us knew that, we would not need weapons at all. TVF would be more civilised.

Many don't know what respect means. Why blame Brown?

How many of us know here know that?

Edited by ravip
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What exactly constitutes "absolutely necessary" in your country?

What are the rules of engagement, so to speak, in your country for a police officer to respond to a personal attack?

Just curious to know where you are coming from on this issue.

I would have thought it was pretty simple to comprehend?

Firstly, I believe in my country, the police officer would have used a taser not a lethal weapon.

The victim was unarmed and no matter how threatening he was and how many bullets needed to be fired at him after the first few were fired, that should have achieved the goal of preventing the victim from physically reaching the police officer who was quite some distance away?

Not as simple to comprehend as you might think. China, Russia, UK, Germany, France, Thailand all have differing criteria for the police officers to use deadly force. Specifically, since you mentioned your country to begin with, what are your country's requirements for the use of deadly force.

Your taser argument is a little unrealistic. Brown's size was roughly equivalent to a small grizzly bear. How many tasers do you believe it would take to subdue a small grizzly bear? Could you even stop a bear with a taser? I think not.

How many shots from a .45 caliber hand gun would you think it takes to stop a small grizzly bear?

In Michael Brown's case, it took six shots.

firstly a taser is designed to work on a thin skinned human being, not a thickly fur coated 800 pound animal.

But police are trained at shooting specific targets. I still ask the question was it absolutely necessary for officer Wilson to have shot to kill, given that the victim was unarmed when the first few shots should have slowed the victim down considerably?

I get your point about the taser. That's why I said a "small" grizzly bear. Maybe one that only weighed 300 pounds and stood only 6'4"
When a police officer is under attack, I doubt if his thought process is going to go anything like this...
1. Why is this big man attacking me? Does he want to kill me or can we defuse the threat by talking?
2. I have my gun in my hand but should I shoot him or not?
3. If I decide to shoot him, where should I aim?
4. Will it stop him if I shoot him in the leg?
5. What about an arm or shoulder shot? Will it stop him?
6. Is shooting him really necessary or could I just throw my gun at him and hope he runs away?
7. I'm so confused. What should I do now?
Most police officers under attack by a very large, angry man are more likely to adapt the following scenario when their life is in danger. This is the one I would choose.
1. Draw weapon.
2. Aim weapon.
3. Fire weapon
4. Fire weapon.
5. Fire weapon.
6. Fire weapon.
I apologize for the delay in answering your question. Had to file a report at the local police station concerning an intruder.
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The bigger picture is that blacks and Latinos are treated very shabbily by police in the USA. I think this is a reflection of that even if the officer correctly wasn't charged (I have no opinion on that). There is room for improvement in the justice system and how it is applied unequally towards minorities.

There is nothing that can be proved. Statistics can be bent and twisted.

Why do blacks make up 14 percent of the population, but 39% of the prison population? Why do 1/3 of black males go to prison at some point?

Is it because they largely choose to live in ghettos, not get an education despite Federal Affirmative Action, and fit in with their own crowd instead of assimilating into the greater society?

Or is it because the system abuses them?

Do you think that those who are convicted of crimes are innocent?

Why do they stay in a ghetto and complain when there is affirmative action both in college admissions and in hiring laws? They have a greater opportunity to get an education and a job than white people do. Why don't they use it? Colleges and businesses have to meet a quota in admissions and hiring to have a representative proportion of blacks on board. Why don't they take advantage of it instead of lounging around in a ghetto somewhere?

They have a better chance of becoming a police officer than a white person does due to affirmative action in hiring. It's a good career with great benefits and a really good retirement program. Personally I wouldn't be a white police officer in a black ghetto. But neither would most blacks.

This whole situation is far more complicated than anything we can express with slogans. I am going to say that the rioting and looting and other law breaking happening in the country seems to me to reflect the entitlement mentality of some people. Some people have lived on "entitlements" all of their lives.

I don't live in an area with many blacks. The ones I do know personally are highly educated and escaped the big inner city to follow a dream. They are the best neighbors you could ask for. They aren't going around strong-arm robbing convenience stores or punching police officers in the face.

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he's a police officer. his job is to protect and serve. not pump six bullets into an unarmed american citizen. whatever the colour of their skin.

How would you have handled this incident, if Brown had been using you as a punching bag and trying to relieve you of your duty weapon?

i'm not a policeman. therefore i'm not trained in numerous ways of restraining, overpowering and apprehending people. but i believe they have things like pepper spray, tasers, extendable batons and ziplocks. sometimes even handcuffs.

and to go back to the medical inspection photo of officer wilson, "punching bag" is a bit of a stretch no? there isn't a bloody mark on him.

12 bullets. he was so afraid of this unarmed kid who had run away from him after he'd already shot him through the hand that he banged a total of 12 bullets into him. you really want people that unstable and incapable guarding the streets? actually don't bother answering that if you're a white person.

I know you're not a "policeman." By your response, I would guess you are a very naive person, who is probably very kind.

"Don't bother answering that if you're a white person." What's up with that statement? Why do you dislike white people? I'm starting to think, there should be some sort of psycological screening process before people are allowed to post messages on this site.

I'm starting to think, there should be some sort of psycological screening process before people are allowed to post messages on this site.

The public prosecutor of the public, Robert McCulloch, can now be rightfully and morally considered to be a criminal defense lawyer who enthusiastically took on the case of Darren Wilson and the Ferguson PD..
Ferguson Idiot Prosecutor's Speech Blames Everyone But Darren Wilson
Ferguson prosecutor Robert McCulloch delivered a long-winded, smirking speech blaming social media, the media, journalists, neighborhood residents, and everyone else who isn't Darren Wilson, for Darren Wilson shooting and killing 18-year-old Michael Brown.
It took McCulloch 10 minutes of hectoring before he revealed the panel had found no probable cause to indict Wilson, and the rest of the 45-minute speech, in which McCulloch seemed to be presenting evidence in Wilson's favor, felt a lot more like defense attorney's argument than a prosecutors.
The very length of McCulloch's rambling statement, really, and the amount of evidence he felt compelled to argue against, was an argument that the case should have gone to trial.
The Department of Justice in Washington found a (probable cause) prima facie case to investigate the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD for a practice and pattern of violations of the Constitution and US civil rights laws.
DoJ has conducted prima facie investigations of 17 local police departments (there are 12,500 or so police departments in the country) and federal courts have found for DoJ in all 17, so the 17 PDs are operating under DoJ direct oversight. Another 35 to include Ferguson and St Louis county are currently being similarly investigated and I'm very confident DoJ will be 35 for another 35 because when the feds initial inquiry makes a prima facie finding, they know they have a strong case.
DoJ is also conducing a separate investigation of whether Wilson violated Michael Brown's civil rights, which is a civil not a criminal investigation in which FBI investigators from DoJ are obtaining under oath virtually everything related to the case.
The Brown family could file a civil case in United States District Court against Officer Wilson in which all relevant evidence will be sought including Wilson's still secret police report as well as videotapes related to the homicide killing. It will also allow them to question witnesses under oath, including police officers who arrived at the scene. The court hearings in a federal civil suit are public so everyone would be able to see all the evidence.
Judicial proceedings and other investigative proceedings by federal authorities are only just beginning, to include the possibility the Brown family will find civil charges, and it is very highly unlikely Wilson will ever work as a cop again unless it's as a private security guard for a right wing group.
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C'mon. A police officer emptying his Semiautomatic Glock clip (20 shots?) into an unarmed man in less than 90 seconds is perfectly "reasonable".

He was Black...

A Glock doesn't have a clip. It has a magazine. A clip is a different device entirely.

Name me a Glock which holds 20 rounds without having a clumsy aftermarket, non-Glock magazine which just gets in the way.

"It's better to be silent and be thought..."

Edited by NeverSure
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I'm starting to think, there should be some sort of psycological screening process before people are allowed to post messages on this site.

The public prosecutor of the public, Robert McCulloch, can now be rightfully and morally considered to be a criminal defense lawyer who enthusiastically took on the case of Darren Wilson and the Ferguson PD..
Ferguson Idiot Prosecutor's Speech Blames Everyone But Darren Wilson
Ferguson prosecutor Robert McCulloch delivered a long-winded, smirking speech blaming social media, the media, journalists, neighborhood residents, and everyone else who isn't Darren Wilson, for Darren Wilson shooting and killing 18-year-old Michael Brown.
It took McCulloch 10 minutes of hectoring before he revealed the panel had found no probable cause to indict Wilson, and the rest of the 45-minute speech, in which McCulloch seemed to be presenting evidence in Wilson's favor, felt a lot more like defense attorney's argument than a prosecutors.
The very length of McCulloch's rambling statement, really, and the amount of evidence he felt compelled to argue against, was an argument that the case should have gone to trial.
The Department of Justice in Washington found a (probable cause) prima facie case to investigate the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD for a practice and pattern of violations of the Constitution and US civil rights laws.
DoJ has conducted prima facie investigations of 17 local police departments (there are 12,500 or so police departments in the country) and federal courts have found for DoJ in all 17, so the 17 PDs are operating under DoJ direct oversight. Another 35 to include Ferguson and St Louis county are currently being similarly investigated and I'm very confident DoJ will be 35 for another 35 because when the feds initial inquiry makes a prima facie finding, they know they have a strong case.
DoJ is also conducing a separate investigation of whether Wilson violated Michael Brown's civil rights, which is a civil not a criminal investigation in which FBI investigators from DoJ are obtaining under oath virtually everything related to the case.
The Brown family could file a civil case in United States District Court against Officer Wilson in which all relevant evidence will be sought including Wilson's still secret police report as well as videotapes related to the homicide killing. It will also allow them to question witnesses under oath, including police officers who arrived at the scene. The court hearings in a federal civil suit are public so everyone would be able to see all the evidence.
Judicial proceedings and other investigative proceedings by federal authorities are only just beginning, to include the possibility the Brown family will find civil charges, and it is very highly unlikely Wilson will ever work as a cop again unless it's as a private security guard for a right wing group.

Sour grapes today?

You've been dead wrong all along and most of us knew it. You're still dead wrong so why not just give it a rest?

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Here is a description of what happened according to conflicting witnesses.

I haven't really followed the case, but why so many shots in the dead young man?

Just based on that, the anger makes more sense to me.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-grand-jury-findings/?hpid=z2

Edited by Jingthing
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The verdict decision was the correct one.

It may have been "correct" in that there was not enough hard evidence to get a conviction. But still I am now understanding the anger more. Something is rotten in America in the way minority youth are treated by police and yes that includes the thuggish ones as well. This is clearly about MUCH MORE than one case.

I also think those saying Martin Luther King would be rolling in his grave over these riots have a point. Barack Obama has not turned out to be the great black hope for African Americans ... the institutionalized racism is still stronger than ever for a large percentages of that population.

Edited by Jingthing
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The public prosecutor of the public, Robert McCulloch, can now be rightfully and morally considered to be a criminal defense lawyer who enthusiastically took on the case of Darren Wilson and the Ferguson PD..
Ferguson Idiot Prosecutor's Speech Blames Everyone But Darren Wilson
Ferguson prosecutor Robert McCulloch delivered a long-winded, smirking speech blaming social media, the media, journalists, neighborhood residents, and everyone else who isn't Darren Wilson, for Darren Wilson shooting and killing 18-year-old Michael Brown.
It took McCulloch 10 minutes of hectoring before he revealed the panel had found no probable cause to indict Wilson, and the rest of the 45-minute speech, in which McCulloch seemed to be presenting evidence in Wilson's favor, felt a lot more like defense attorney's argument than a prosecutors.
The very length of McCulloch's rambling statement, really, and the amount of evidence he felt compelled to argue against, was an argument that the case should have gone to trial.
The Department of Justice in Washington found a (probable cause) prima facie case to investigate the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD for a practice and pattern of violations of the Constitution and US civil rights laws.
DoJ has conducted prima facie investigations of 17 local police departments (there are 12,500 or so police departments in the country) and federal courts have found for DoJ in all 17, so the 17 PDs are operating under DoJ direct oversight. Another 35 to include Ferguson and St Louis county are currently being similarly investigated and I'm very confident DoJ will be 35 for another 35 because when the feds initial inquiry makes a prima facie finding, they know they have a strong case.
DoJ is also conducing a separate investigation of whether Wilson violated Michael Brown's civil rights, which is a civil not a criminal investigation in which FBI investigators from DoJ are obtaining under oath virtually everything related to the case.
The Brown family could file a civil case in United States District Court against Officer Wilson in which all relevant evidence will be sought including Wilson's still secret police report as well as videotapes related to the homicide killing. It will also allow them to question witnesses under oath, including police officers who arrived at the scene. The court hearings in a federal civil suit are public so everyone would be able to see all the evidence.
Judicial proceedings and other investigative proceedings by federal authorities are only just beginning, to include the possibility the Brown family will find civil charges, and it is very highly unlikely Wilson will ever work as a cop again unless it's as a private security guard for a right wing group.

Sour grapes today?

You've been dead wrong all along and most of us knew it. You're still dead wrong so why not just give it a rest?

The post is talking through its apeture my friend because I'd posted here a very long time ago that the fix wuz in, that Wilson would never be convicted or indicted on state charges and that is exactly what everyone is looking at right now as the in fact reality. Your rhetoric far exceeds your reality.

Darren Wilson remains technically as a member of the Ferguson PD but all the while he's been searching the want ads knowing he must resign. But what the heck, Wilson is shopping around the networks both cable and broadcast to extend his 15 minutes into a bit longer of a flare.

Darren Wilson has been meeting with network anchors: What the heck?

Credit CNN’s Brian Stelter with a very big scoop. On today’s “Reliable Sources” media-news program, Stelter reported that “high-profile news anchors” have spoken in “secret locations” with Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson. The sessions have been off-the-record and, the way Stelter tells it, they’ve been auditions for one of the biggest exclusives of this century — namely, the sit-down talk with the elusive officer who killed Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., on Aug. 9.

Some details exist. NBC News’s Matt Lauer, ABC News’s George Stephanopoulos, CBS News’s Scott Pelley and Anderson Cooper and Don Lemon of CNN have met with Wilson, according to Stelter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2014/11/23/darren-wilson-has-been-meeting-with-network-anchors-what-the-heck/

Edited by Publicus
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