Report: Retirement Visa Extension at Chiang Mai Immigration, 2014-11-27 (Th)

[puukao]

Oh boy, I clicked on this thread expecting great drama, heartache, crying, money lost, and possibly deportation. I quickly saw how organized the poster was about his experience, so I knew I was doomed. Next time, please go in shirtless without any photos, and demand they all speak Russian. Something to help this poor soul.

[Tywais]

I just did a first 90 day report by mail to Chiang Mai Immigration, posted in 15 days before due date, receipt/acknowledgement took three weeks to arrive back at my home, maybe they don't post until due date, but it worked fine without any receipt from last 90 day report, as this was my first one. So I expect they don't need you to mail in a receipt you don't have!

I stand corrected so thanks for that info. I usually try to stay away from assumptions, especially in Thailand, and slipped on this one.

[maodun]

Chiang Rai....new immigration office, plenty of parking, plenty of places to sit...in and out in 20 minutes or less. No queue.

[NancyL]

To those who are not in Chiang Mai and are expressing amazement with having to get in line at 5 am, the reason is that there are just a set number of people who can be processed each day. The real bottleneck is with retirement extensions and there a many, many retirees in Chiang Mai. The parking lot pre-queue system described by the OP is a big step forward from what used to be a bad morning scrum, but there still are just so many queue tickets that can be distributed. Anyone who arrives after about 7:30 am isn't going to get a queue ticket for a retirement extension that day and will be told to come back the next day, earlier to wait in line.

The problem is in staffing. Apparently there are positions allocated for Chiang Mai, but the hiring is done out of Bangkok. I have a sense that Chiang Mai has been caught in some political battles -- it may have something to do with the red/yellow politics and reluctance to send resources to Chiang Mai. When I've seen metrics -- like number of customers served per Immigration Officer, number of customers served per square meter of office space, Chiang Mai is always off the chart compared to other offices in Thailand. The fees collected go straight to Bangkok.

And no, if you live in one of the provinces served by the Chiang Mai office, you can't do your retirement extension elsewhere.

[aaechiangmai]

I would like to congratulate the staff at Chiang Mai Immigration for the excellent job they do under what are totally inadequate circumstances. This bungalow is like something one would expect in the 'third world'.

With the large and ever increasing amounts of money flooding into the immigration office surely one of these days this Immigration bungalow will move to appropriate offices befitting the no 2 city in Thailand where applicants preparing to hand over loads of money at least might be able to wait sitting down at 4.30 am and ideally out of the rain.

The staff all deserve awards for the patience and courtesy shown to the unfortunate applicants who have to go through what is a thoroughly unpleasant ordeal.

Last August's renewal of my retirement visa got me to Immigration at 4.35 am, leaving at 3.15 pm ( same day ). The previous two days I had arrived at 8 am and 7 am to be told "full, come back tomorrow"...

[slipperylobster]

I agree...

My heart goes out to the staff in Chiang Mai. I do pity them, and I do feel the pain. It does not stop me from wanting it to be better, as I do want to eventually live here.

For being listed so high in the International Community as a great Retirement destination.....the services for getting that paper shuffle done is something that should be fixed.

It is kind of at the...."OMG" stage. No fault of the locals...as you are saying.

It was the same in the military. Doing a job with 60 percent manning. The other Immigration Offices are enjoying a modernized, comfortable and efficient facility.

I do hope for the best......

[padlin]

I did my retirement extension just one month ago but I am already dreading next year!!

I am thinking of extablishing residence in Krabi where I have lots of friends so that next year I can do it there.

I want to remain in Chiang Mai but establish an address in Krabi just for visa retirement extension.

I go there a few times a year anyway.

It is possible?

Could someone tell me how?

Thank you.

[slapout]

To those who are not in Chiang Mai and are expressing amazement with having to get in line at 5 am, the reason is that there are just a set number of people who can be processed each day. The real bottleneck is with retirement extensions and there a many, many retirees in Chiang Mai. The parking lot pre-queue system described by the OP is a big step forward from what used to be a bad morning scrum, but there still are just so many queue tickets that can be distributed. Anyone who arrives after about 7:30 am isn't going to get a queue ticket for a retirement extension that day and will be told to come back the next day, earlier to wait in line.

The problem is in staffing. Apparently there are positions allocated for Chiang Mai, but the hiring is done out of Bangkok. I have a sense that Chiang Mai has been caught in some political battles -- it may have something to do with the red/yellow politics and reluctance to send resources to Chiang Mai. When I've seen metrics -- like number of customers served per Immigration Officer, number of customers served per square meter of office space, Chiang Mai is always off the chart compared to other offices in Thailand. The fees collected go straight to Bangkok.

And no, if you live in one of the provinces served by the Chiang Mai office, you can't do your retirement extension elsewhere.

If its only the number of retirees appling for extension, which makes CM seem a cluster f... how many retirement extensions could one experienced person do in a 8 hour shift? Others have blamed several pitfalls, not just one, (incomplete paperwork, agents filling the appointment retirement slots, experienced immigration officals busy with new hires/trainees, etc) based on, in some cases decades of watching/particapation. No. immigration is another branch of the RTP and they seem to have the same goals as the majority of the BIB, while spending most of their working hours dealing with foreigners

[slipperylobster]

I did my retirement extension just one month ago but I am already dreading next year!!

I am thinking of extablishing residence in Krabi where I have lots of friends so that next year I can do it there.

I want to remain in Chiang Mai but establish an address in Krabi just for visa retirement extension.

I go there a few times a year anyway.

It is possible?

Could someone tell me how?

Thank you.

My question, exactly. It sure would help out the folks who work at Immigration, Chiang Mai. Ease up the load.

[mesquite]

Chiang Rai....new immigration office, plenty of parking, plenty of places to sit...in and out in 20 minutes or less. No queue.

Only works if you live in Chiang Rai.

[mesquite]

It's a lot easier at Chonburi immigration, you just show up before 12 and normally walk out before 2 pm.

It's a lot easier *everywhere* in Thailand other than Chiang Mai.

[mesquite]

Chiang Rai....new immigration office, plenty of parking, plenty of places to sit...in and out in 20 minutes or less. No queue.

This is an interesting alternative.

Can you use your CM residence information here?

Info':

"Here is a copy of the information we posted on the 3rd September..... as far as we are aware these are still in place.

Re: UPDATE Visa application changes at Chiang Rai Immigration Office

« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2014, 14:51:30 PM »

The following info is received from the Chiang Rai Immigration Office in Chiang Rai:

Chiang Rai Immigration Office will now handle the following visa applications on MONDAYS and WEDNESDAYS Only.

1. Retirement

2. Buddhism studies

3. Medical treatment/care

4. Education at a private institution

Applications for these type of visas can be handled at Mae Sai on all work days.

No change to previously announced policy on marriage visas and work permits."

Unfortunately it is NOT an alternative to CM Imm. if you live in CM.

Edited November 28, 2014 by mesquite

[CMBob]

I am thinking of extablishing residence in Krabi where I have lots of friends so that next year I can do it there.

I want to remain in Chiang Mai but establish an address in Krabi just for visa retirement extension.

I go there a few times a year anyway..... It is possible?....Could someone tell me how?.

You probably can do it but technically, since you won't be living there, it'd probably be illegal. If you want to take the risk (probably minimal), just file a change of address form (although logically it would seem you ought to do that in Krabi). After that, it would seem you should be doing your 90-day reports there too.

Not many even know about let alone file the change of address form. I first obtained a retirement visa in Hua HIn but later moved to CM. I never filed the change of address deal but just started working with CM Immigration when my 90-day address date arrived (and nobody at Immigration said a thing about not filing the change of address form). A couple of years later, I moved across town here in CM and again didn't bother with the change of address form. Again, nobody said a thing when I filed the next 90-day address report (which, of course, listed the new address).

I realize a lot of people are screaming about how bad CM Immigration is but I simply don't see it that way. Do your 90-day reports by mail and try to get an online queue deal for your one-year extension. If you can't get the queue number, then you have to go once a year and put up with a possible lousy day or half-day. It really isn't all that bad and it is only once a year!

[Si Thea01]

Why do you have to get there so early? In the ten years that I have been obtaining my extension of stay (retirement) I have never had to attend an immigration office at such an ungodly hour. I have done extensions at Nakhom Pathom, Wattana and the last two at Udon Thani and have always arrived around 10.00am. I have even attended on a Monday or a Friday and always, everything is completed on the day of my attendance.

The longest wait was at Wattana, about 3 hours, including their lunch break, whilst at the other offices about an hour and a half, maximum. During my attendance the only time they required my passport was to stamp it after which they returned it to me. Have never been required to wait the whole day for it to be returned nor have I been required to come back the next day. Is the Chiang Mai office really that busy?

Udon Thani, where I now attend, is fully computerised and as you enter there is a desk where an Officer photographs you, enters the necessary details on computer, allocates a number, after which you take a seat and wait your turn. There are four officers in the next section,, all with computer access, and the process is so smooth that you are in and out within a very short period of time. That is provided you have all the necessary documentation and nothing crops up that will delay the process.

Even though I am able to converse with them in the Thai language, I always present with my wife, she has her little talk with them, as most Thai ladies deem necessary, and the whole process proceeds in a fast, pleasant and courteous manner. I have never experienced any of the difficulties others seem to have on their visits and at not time have I ever been asked nor has any officer sought a stipend over the required fees, nor have I offered and on every occasion the whole process has been conducted with the utmost professionalism by the officers concerned. It is actually a pleasant experience at this office.

It is a special attraction of Chiang Mai. It is known as get out and see the sun rise. They like the idea of people seing the sun rise over DoiSuthep and glint on the pagoda there they offer it free with your visa attendances.

(Of course some of those in Chiang Mai just get there early as they are on the way home from an early night in.

I get out every morning and see the sun rise but I do this by sitting on my verandah over looking the river, which is 50 metres from my home, and enjoying a great breakfast. Must be very special as you say but give me home sweet home at sunrise anytime. I find it much more pleasurable then having to do something that I can put off until a more suitable time.

But thanks for letting me now.

[slipperylobster]

For anyone coming to Chiang Mai, I suggest you first get everything done elsewhere, before moving to CM. In other words, show up there with a 90 day non immigrant O, set up your residence, and when you get down to the 30 day (earliest you can apply for extension), then give your current legal address, etc. Get your retirement extension. You do not necessarily have to tell them you are going to move. Things like that happen.

Many locals have houses both in Bangkok, and their home province. It seems if you retire here...you could do the same. (Own two condos, for example....one in Chiang Rai and One in Chiang Mai). Splitting equal time between the two. Or perhaps having a vacation home in Phuket, and your marriage home in Chiang Rai. You would want to pick one of the two...for reporting purposes. It seems you would pick the one that is more convenient.

Any questions that may arrive, could be handled, honestly, at immigration.

For example....I was told I cannot be a tourist anymore...so I got my Retirement Extension. But...I travel a lot...and stay everywhere. Now I need to keep a home where I report. So I pick one. But I surely am free to travel anywhere....even for a month or two....and come back to my residence? Correct or not correct? I lose either way.... cannot long stay as a tourist...but need to be chained to one location as a retiree..... ??? No more traveling???? Lots of questions.

H

[Si Thea01]

To those who are not in Chiang Mai and are expressing amazement with having to get in line at 5 am, the reason is that there are just a set number of people who can be processed each day. The real bottleneck is with retirement extensions and there a many, many retirees in Chiang Mai. The parking lot pre-queue system described by the OP is a big step forward from what used to be a bad morning scrum, but there still are just so many queue tickets that can be distributed. Anyone who arrives after about 7:30 am isn't going to get a queue ticket for a retirement extension that day and will be told to come back the next day, earlier to wait in line.

The problem is in staffing. Apparently there are positions allocated for Chiang Mai, but the hiring is done out of Bangkok. I have a sense that Chiang Mai has been caught in some political battles -- it may have something to do with the red/yellow politics and reluctance to send resources to Chiang Mai. When I've seen metrics -- like number of customers served per Immigration Officer, number of customers served per square meter of office space, Chiang Mai is always off the chart compared to other offices in Thailand. The fees collected go straight to Bangkok.

And no, if you live in one of the provinces served by the Chiang Mai office, you can't do your retirement extension elsewhere.

Aren't they computerised? In Udon Thani they are, have a separate counter and there is no form to complete any longer. You just present your passport and providing there is no change of address the whole process takes less than 5 minutes. They only have one officer carrying out this process and he is quite computer savvy. No tickets required, just line up.

[circusman]

I agree...

My heart goes out to the staff in Chiang Mai. I do pity them, and I do feel the pain. It does not stop me from wanting it to be better, as I do want to eventually live here.

For being listed so high in the International Community as a great Retirement destination.....the services for getting that paper shuffle done is something that should be fixed.

It is kind of at the...."OMG" stage. No fault of the locals...as you are saying.

It was the same in the military. Doing a job with 60 percent manning. The other Immigration Offices are enjoying a modernized, comfortable and efficient facility.

I do hope for the best......

Why all the drama concerning the overworked staff at imm ? It is a job. No working in the sun and rain. A/c provided. Come on folks, spare me the crying for people who wanted the job.

Just aside, I have always been treated well by them.

[slipperylobster]

I agree...

My heart goes out to the staff in Chiang Mai. I do pity them, and I do feel the pain. It does not stop me from wanting it to be better, as I do want to eventually live here.

For being listed so high in the International Community as a great Retirement destination.....the services for getting that paper shuffle done is something that should be fixed.

It is kind of at the...."OMG" stage. No fault of the locals...as you are saying.

It was the same in the military. Doing a job with 60 percent manning. The other Immigration Offices are enjoying a modernized, comfortable and efficient facility.

I do hope for the best......

Why all the drama concerning the overworked staff at imm ? It is a job. No working in the sun and rain. A/c provided. Come on folks, spare me the crying for people who wanted the job.

Just aside, I have always been treated well by them.

Seriously....

I do pity them quite a bit. Never would change places with them....and never had to handle that amount of paperwork. Perhaps we can all chip in for a Christmas Bonus for the crew...or hand out gifts?

Ok...I exaggerated.

[Frank James]

Great thread, especially the breakdown of what's happening on a typical day at Chiang Mai "La Migra." Kudos to the OP. Can't prove it, but I think the Imm. Bosses in Bangkok have a hard-on against CM in general, as reflected in the interview quote from "CityLife."

We can count on the situation at CM/Imm to stay the same or get worse as time goes on. If you are a retiree here, you must expect that on one magical day of the year, it is your turn to either run the gauntlet or hire a proxy service to run it for you. I choose to show up for the annual, and for the much easier 90 day check-in, as it is a fascinating free show. I like to see all the great variety of my fellow supplicants, with all of their various "looks", and ways of coping with the aggravation. I like to eavesdrop on conversations (often unavoidable) and get ideas for stories.

A few hours of annual "suffering" is a small price to pay for the privilege of living in the greatest city in Thailand.

[Frank James]

PS: Officer Atitaya Inthapun is a real professional, and a total sweetheart. It is a pleasure to be processed by her.

[slipperylobster]

PS: Officer Atitaya Inthapun is a real professional, and a total sweetheart. It is a pleasure to be processed by her.

Is that why you always manage to get in first?

[Genericnic]

PS: Officer Atitaya Inthapun is a real professional, and a total sweetheart. It is a pleasure to be processed by her.

Agreed. I wish I were a bit younger or she was a bit older.

David

[evenstevens]

oh the joys of engaging my super duper visa agent @14 baht a day..ret/visa plus 90 day reports thrown in

all d.i.y . eat your hearts out

and have a nice day at the zoo

[uptheos]

I agree...

My heart goes out to the staff in Chiang Mai. I do pity them, and I do feel the pain. It does not stop me from wanting it to be better, as I do want to eventually live here.

For being listed so high in the International Community as a great Retirement destination.....the services for getting that paper shuffle done is something that should be fixed.

It is kind of at the...."OMG" stage. No fault of the locals...as you are saying.

It was the same in the military. Doing a job with 60 percent manning. The other Immigration Offices are enjoying a modernized, comfortable and efficient facility.

I do hope for the best......

Why all the drama concerning the overworked staff at imm ? It is a job. No working in the sun and rain. A/c provided. Come on folks, spare me the crying for people who wanted the job.

Just aside, I have always been treated well by them.

Seriously....

I do pity them quite a bit. Never would change places with them....and never had to handle that amount of paperwork. Perhaps we can all chip in for a Christmas Bonus for the crew...or hand out gifts?

Ok...I exaggerated.

Maybe you feel sorry for them from a farang perspective, but I doubt if any Thai's do.

[NancyL]

To those who are not in Chiang Mai and are expressing amazement with having to get in line at 5 am, the reason is that there are just a set number of people who can be processed each day. The real bottleneck is with retirement extensions and there a many, many retirees in Chiang Mai. The parking lot pre-queue system described by the OP is a big step forward from what used to be a bad morning scrum, but there still are just so many queue tickets that can be distributed. Anyone who arrives after about 7:30 am isn't going to get a queue ticket for a retirement extension that day and will be told to come back the next day, earlier to wait in line.

The problem is in staffing. Apparently there are positions allocated for Chiang Mai, but the hiring is done out of Bangkok. I have a sense that Chiang Mai has been caught in some political battles -- it may have something to do with the red/yellow politics and reluctance to send resources to Chiang Mai. When I've seen metrics -- like number of customers served per Immigration Officer, number of customers served per square meter of office space, Chiang Mai is always off the chart compared to other offices in Thailand. The fees collected go straight to Bangkok.

And no, if you live in one of the provinces served by the Chiang Mai office, you can't do your retirement extension elsewhere.

Aren't they computerised? In Udon Thani they are, have a separate counter and there is no form to complete any longer. You just present your passport and providing there is no change of address the whole process takes less than 5 minutes. They only have one officer carrying out this process and he is quite computer savvy. No tickets required, just line up.

For a retirement extension?

There was talk of going toward this for 90-day reporting and at one point they started to put barcode stickers into our passports and said "next time no forms or copies" but then something happened and that plan got scuttled. Something about a change in computer systems. As I said, CM seems to be caught in the middle of some sort of internal political drama, like it's being punished. Plus, some accounts say the number of foreign retirees in Chiang Mai has doubled in the last two years.

[evenstevens]

talk ,talk........

all talk......200 questions presented to the poodle in charge....and????

why would they change??? its a cashcow

they dont give a hoot about aliens disgust of their pathetic services

business as usual at the zoo , u can bet on that

Edited November 28, 2014 by evenstevens

[Mapguy]

Chiang Mai can be very difficult to accomplish immigration business since, according to Chiang Mai Immigration statistics, the number of "long stay" expatriates has doubled in the the last two years. The same officer pointed out at the same time (at a meeting of the Chiang Mai Expats Club a few weeks past) that the Chiang Rai office has the same size staff and only about a third of the business, if I recall correctly.

Immigration in Chiang Mai (which has other important things to worry about, too) was caught flat-footed, and in various statements from that office over the past couple of years office officials have said that support from the national headquarters has not been adequate so far in dealing effectively to solve the problem. At the Expat's Club meeting and at other times it has been noted that both increased staff and new facilities are indeed planned.

Meanwhile, although the Chiang Mai office has clearly been taking steps to speed things up and smooth out the processes there, business there can often be a headache for the office as well as the clients.

Here are two suggestions. One is to make the necessary guidance in English much clearer and disseminate it more broadly. The second is that many expats should do more homework. The principal forum covering visas on ThaiVisa is quite good, and the Immigration Department does have helpful sites. Here, in Chiang Mai, this forum is really principally useful to get updated on the day-to-day local difficulties and the ad hoc adjustments being made to deal with the overcrowding. It is not that the regulations and the basic documentary requirements are different. They aren't.

[Tywais]

It is not that the regulations and the basic documentary requirements are different. They aren't.

Not sure what you mean by that but if you follow the Visa section and the other community forums on Visa issues you will find there can be considerable differences in requirement regardless of what the regs say.

[Sparkles]

oh the joys of engaging my super duper visa agent @14 baht a day..ret/visa plus 90 day reports thrown in

all d.i.y . eat your hearts out

and have a nice day at the zoo

ES You are like a broken record.Unless you have something constructive to post why do you bother ?

Boredom ,ego or a bit of both ?

[Jaggg88]

I just got mine, and am so happy I finally got it done. Lots of questions about residence (Forgot the copy of Property Owners' ID Card), none about income (I had everything nailed on that).

Was told that I could not do it 45 days before my expiration date of my 90 day O. Came back at 30 days. That was kind of bad info..or I may have misread a thread dealing with this.

yeah I was told I had to be in the country 60 days before I could apply for extension so that fits in with your info