Just got kicked out of thai with valid visa

[SeaVisionBurma]

Lets dispense with the personal attacks, baiting and bickering thanks.

And for those joining this topic late - suggest you don't post before going and reading the whole thread again, as several newcomers/latecomers are making posts which clearly show they jumped in on the last page.

[bkkcanuck8]

As has been pointed out by several others, if he had enrolled in a course for a different language, or a course for a different specialty, he could have avoided this (as such other courses are also offered for an ED visa), yet the OP didn't do that. He, like many others, enrolled in a Thai language course, and by his own admission, never went to classes, just procured himself a visa.

That is called abusing the visa privilege. He could have just as easily have procured himself a multiple entry tourist visa, which could have been good for up to 360 days. He chose not to do so.

What part of "I can understand and speak Thai" you did not understand? Even if he had participated every class during the first half year, he still would not been able to write Thai because shools do not teach you to write during the first year except few rare exceptions.

So his situation would have been exactly the same. He probably went to a couple of first lessons and found it too elementary.

<Flame/baiting remark removed>

First thing a reputable school would do is test him to see where he fits it.

[ubonjoe]

That is called abusing the visa privilege. He could have just as easily have procured himself a multiple entry tourist visa, which could have been good for up to 360 days. He chose not to do so.

There is no such visa.

Tourist visas are only issued by the number of entries up to 3 with the longest validity being 6 months.

[DaffyDuck]

That is called abusing the visa privilege. He could have just as easily have procured himself a multiple entry tourist visa, which could have been good for up to 360 days. He chose not to do so.

There is no such visa.

Tourist visas are only issued by the number of entries up to 3 with the longest validity being 6 months.

3 entries = more than one = this is also known as 'multiple'.

Now, do the math on the allowed duration of stay, including the extensions you would be allowed with such a visa, after each entry (hint: this calculation was already done previously by others in this thread - 360 days).

[HooHaa]

endless speculation over nothing

[whybother]

I actually saw that I while ago, which would make it 3 months into his ED visa.... which apparently he was having trouble learning Thai so maybe he wanted to change it into something that he was more easily able to learn

I would have trouble learning if I didn't go to classes too.

Did'nt you read his earlier post. He has been here 8 years on a marriage visa and can understand and speak Thai !

Didn't you read his earlier post where he couldn't read and write Thai.

[ubonjoe]

That is called abusing the visa privilege. He could have just as easily have procured himself a multiple entry tourist visa, which could have been good for up to 360 days. He chose not to do so.

There is no such visa.

Tourist visas are only issued by the number of entries up to 3 with the longest validity being 6 months.

3 entries = more than one = this is also known as 'multiple'.

Now, do the math on the allowed duration of stay, including the extensions you would be allowed with such a visa, after each entry (hint: this calculation was already done previously by others in this thread - 360 days).

The visa has the number of entries allowed on it. A multiple entry visa has an M instead of a number.

Multiple implies unlimited entries.

The absolute most you can get from a 3 entry tourist visa is 270 days. (60 X 3) + (30 X 3) = 270

[DaffyDuck]

I stand corrected on the number of days, then. To me, anything over 1 is multiple entry. So it's a limited entry visa (3 entries) and would have been a perfectly suitable visa option for the OP, without any risk, or attempting loopholes. Probably cheaper as well.

I was under the impression that you are able to request 2 extensions of 30 days each for each entry.

[ubonjoe]

I was under the impression that you are able to request 2 extensions of 30 days each for each entry.

Only one extension is allowed per entry. Two has never been allowed.

[Don Mega]

Waleen

You said you were on an ED visa for about 7 - 8 months but didn't attend class.

Did you have to get 90 day extension?

Did immigration say anything about the attendance report in your extension paperwork?

How were you successful to maintain your Ed visa without attending classes?

I will speculate and say that the attendance report presented perfect attendance.

[mngmn]

Lets dispense with the personal attacks, baiting and bickering thanks.

And for those joining this topic late - suggest you don't post before going and reading the whole thread again, as several newcomers/latecomers are making posts which clearly show they jumped in on the last page.

I agree with you and also the education commentators who point our that many in Thailand lack critical thinking skills.

I would start here.

Note: This is meant to be sarcastically funny.

[Ned]

I propose one year maximum ed visas for studying Thai........five days a week for four hours a day......for serious students.

If you're not serious then go get yourself some other sort of visa.

[bkkcanuck8]

I propose one year maximum ed visas for studying Thai........five days a week for four hours a day......for serious students.

If you're not serious then go get yourself some other sort of visa.

There is classroom lessons, then there is homework, and there is just learning through being "immersed". 20 hours a week is actually more than is required for some full time University students (I think mine were 18 hours a week of classroom time). I think the 10 hours a week is sufficient since it equates to a part-time student (part-time tourist) -- if actually enforced.

[wump]

I haven't read the whole thread, but all of Walen's text books are almost completely in Thai script and there is no transliteration whatsoever. By seeing that he is a Walen student (there should be a remark on the visa) it's quite simple for the IO to figure out that he is not attending class at all.

[casualbiker]

I propose one year maximum ed visas for studying Thai........five days a week for four hours a day......for serious students.

If you're not serious then go get yourself some other sort of visa.

And do you honestly think that people can learn to speak, read and write fluently within that one year time frame?

[Maestro]

...

How he was able to get extension without attending classes is another issue.

This is another puzzle which we cannot solved without additional input from JohnnyBKK. As I remember it, he never posted that he applied for and got an extension of stay for the reason of study. I'm on the phone at the moment and cannot easily do a search in this topic. Would somebody else be so kind as to do it?

[MrWorldwide]

Seems pretty odd, I am on an education visa for muay thai, what are they going to do ask me to try to have a muay thai match with someone to test my skills?

Just take off your shirt - if you've been going to training you'll know that these guys dont have an ounce of fat on them.

[FritsSikkink]

Also, let's be honest - the OP also had ample opportunity to learn to speak and read/write Thai during his prior 8 years that he lived in the country, while married to a Thai. He also stated that he did not feel like attending classes, because he knew how to speak Thai to whatever degree he felt was passable.

The fact is simply that he used the ED visa to skirt having to get a regular visa, and was abusing the visa process. He was (unfortunately) caught, and the immigration officer was perform their lawful duty. Case closed.

Could you point out where in the tourist visa or any other visa except ED it says "you must learn Thai"?! Your kinds of <deleted> really piss me off. Where the <deleted> you came from...go back there. I can help you pack without any extra charge.

You would be working then

[Maestro]

By seeing that he is a Walen student (there should be a remark on the visa)...

Let us remember that JohnnyBKK was careful not to say in any of his posts that he was enrolled at Walen. We should respect this and not put words into his mouth.

[wump]

It says it in the op?

[bkkcanuck8]

No he was very careful NOT to say walen

He said he studied at:

Waleen

[bkkcanuck8]

It says it in the op?

Not op, first page in response to a question.... he said he studied at waleen.

Edited November 30, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[wump]

Okay but you and me both know that also "Waleen" probably only uses Thai script. Therefore very easy to verify for the IO. In fact, if they were clever they'd have a list of schools that teach Thai script.

I do feel sorry for the op however I think learning to read Thai script is very easy (writing is much harder as there is hundreds of ways to spell a word), especially since he had like 7 months to do it. I think that's the very least he could have done. Easier to learn Thai afterwards since you can read everything even if you don't go to class.

Edited November 30, 2014 by wump

[Tomtomtom69]

They said i will be refused in other countries because of my thailand refusal stamp. They dont want to let me fly anywhere else than france.

Well strictly speaking, anywhere in Europe would be OK. As an EU national, you have the same rights of abode in any one of about 30 European countries according to the Schengen agreement. Having said that, anywhere in the Schengen zone is far away from Thailand so it won't make any difference to fly to Germany, Poland, Switzerland etc. compared to France as they are only marginally closer to Thailand than France is.

[inwardglee]

I have read through all comments with interest ...

I thank JohnnyBKK for the publishing of his experience. it needs some courage to write about this, knowing that some forum members are merciless.

I find the Thai authorities were hard on him in this matter. In the past, such a use of ED visa was accepted, and then all at once one is sent on the next plain back, as it is now considered misuse of the law. That is a change in practice of the law.

In jurisdiction, there is customary law. What had been in use, is expected by anyone to be in use furthermore.

So, if the use of law is changed, there should be mildness in the process.

If not, we see ourselves opposed to arbitrary actions.

My fiancee, African, who is now on an Elite Easy access, as the doors are virtually closed to Africans for ED visas now, travelled into Thailand, at the beginning of the year, her money was checked, she had none of it on her, saying she was invited, someone outside waiting with money, me. She passed ...

Now, she might not pass anymore. This is change of customary law. People get used to a practice of law, and then feel let down by a sudden change.

I hope that Thai authorities find a good way to adapt the practice of the laws with transparency and open statements. Then everybody has time to adapt.

P.S. Sorry my clumsy English, I am writing as a non-native speaker ...

[Tomtomtom69]

Okay but you and me both know that also "Waleen" probably only uses Thai script. Therefore very easy to verify for the IO. In fact, if they were clever they'd have a list of schools that teach Thai script.

I do feel sorry for the op however I think learning to read Thai script is very easy (writing is much harder as there is hundreds of ways to spell a word), especially since he had like 7 months to do it. I think that's the very least he could have done. Easier to learn Thai afterwards since you can read everything even if you don't go to class.

Well not exactly, there is a standard way of writing each word, since Thai is an alphabetical language (although occasional words have 2 or more possible pronunciations, such as the word for wife, "panraya"). For example, let me give you an example of a random word. Let's just say "Chiang Mai", which is เชียงใหม่ in Thai. There is no other accepted way of writing "Chiang Mai" in Thai. Only in English does it get confusing. While "Chiang Mai" seems to be the accepted way of spelling the name of the city, other possibilities I've seen include "Chiangmai", "Chieng Mai" and although I've never seen these examples before, "Chiang May" or "Chieng May" would even be acceptable.

What's difficult is knowing which Thai character to choose for spelling a particular word, given that some sounds have more than one letter that can represent that sound. The "s" sound in English is known to have about 4 possible Thai characters to represent that sound, in Thai these are ศ ส ซ ษ. The only time when even Thais don't know how to write something and variations in spelling can occur are for foreign transliterations or transcriptions. For example, when there is either no Thai word for a particular name or concept and the English or other foreign loanword is used or for foreign names, such as names of individuals or businesses.

Anyway, that's my lecture for today, lol.

The point that I'm trying to make however is that learning how to read AND write should be a priority from day 1 of learning any language. After like 7 months you should be able to read and write at least some Thai.

[DeeMak9]

I have been sent back as well. Spent one night in detention. I was on an ED visa as well and suprisingly also came back from a 3 day trip to HK. The only option I was given , was flying back to my home country with KLM royal airlines. I had to fly bck business class in order not to be locked up for over 24 hours. I paid for this myself. Im from The Netherlands by the way. If that makes any difference... I got a stamp in my passport saying I was working illegally in Thailand and had no money with me (last actually true apart from a ATM card and 800 HKD and a few 100 baht notes. I managed to enter twice again with an O visa based on my daughter. Each time they gave me a hard time. Im now waiting for a new passport.

I am not sure a new passport will obfuscate anything. Immigration will have a record in their computer system from last time. I assume you are not changing your name (and not your date of birth) -- so they will be able to pull up your records from before (assuming that your prior passport is not encoded in the new passport somehow). Sometimes immigration can be "nice" by putting the reason as "insufficient funds" rather than something that indicates working illegally in Thailand which may very well bring more scrutiny on your next entry.

There is indeed a record of this. Even the Bangkok Fast Track service wouldnt allow me to use them because of this. However, Its always because of the page they started questioning. Last two times I had 100k in cash with me, bankbooks to prove I live on savings and rental income, chanotes, birth certificate, car book, housebook of my girlfriend and daughter just in case. And I actually flew back with me girlfriend last time. They asked some questions, she answered and stamped my passport. Its been very very stressful going tru immigration now as my whole life is in Thailand. I used to make regular tripa to HK and Singapore, but I'm so worried to get denied again I just don't do that anymore. Next time I will have to leave and re-enter Thailand I'll have my daughter in my arms.

[hagler]

Johnny sorry to hear about this. You have been in country for a long time now. Terrible thing to have happen at such short notice. Best wishes and hope you can get back and get the affairs sorted out in the near future. And dont worry about the newbie numpties and their bleating. ;-)

[stevenl]

I have been sent back as well. Spent one night in detention. I was on an ED visa as well and suprisingly also came back from a 3 day trip to HK. The only option I was given , was flying back to my home country with KLM royal airlines. I had to fly bck business class in order not to be locked up for over 24 hours. I paid for this myself. Im from The Netherlands by the way. If that makes any difference... I got a stamp in my passport saying I was working illegally in Thailand and had no money with me (last actually true apart from a ATM card and 800 HKD and a few 100 baht notes. I managed to enter twice again with an O visa based on my daughter. Each time they gave me a hard time. Im now waiting for a new passport.

I am not sure a new passport will obfuscate anything. Immigration will have a record in their computer system from last time. I assume you are not changing your name (and not your date of birth) -- so they will be able to pull up your records from before (assuming that your prior passport is not encoded in the new passport somehow). Sometimes immigration can be "nice" by putting the reason as "insufficient funds" rather than something that indicates working illegally in Thailand which may very well bring more scrutiny on your next entry.

There is indeed a record of this. Even the Bangkok Fast Track service wouldnt allow me to use them because of this. However, Its always because of the page they started questioning. Last two times I had 100k in cash with me, bankbooks to prove I live on savings and rental income, chanotes, birth certificate, car book, housebook of my girlfriend and daughter just in case. And I actually flew back with me girlfriend last time. They asked some questions, she answered and stamped my passport. Its been very very stressful going tru immigration now as my whole life is in Thailand. I used to make regular tripa to HK and Singapore, but I'm so worried to get denied again I just don't do that anymore. Next time I will have to leave and re-enter Thailand I'll have my daughter in my arms.

Since you're living here, get an extension of stay after having received a proper visa. ED visa is not the way to go.

Edited November 30, 2014 by stevenl

[Markphuket]

Ultimately i do agree that is was the right decision for the immigration officer to refuse him entry to Thailand if he states he did not attend class, that part is a clear abuse of the visa, this coming form a fellow person on a educational visa

This is my problem and question is how the immigration officer got to this decision, how did the immigration officer know that he hadn't been attending lessons as previously stated most school give in bogus attendance records. I cant believe this would play any factor into why he got rejected.

If it because he started a educational visa after 8 years. There no phrasing when applying for an educational visa that says after "x" years you should be able to speak/read/write thai to a certain level and no longer eligible for this Visa. Unless there is a direct rule anyone is entitled to apply for a education visa to learn thai after 0 years or 50 years up of living in Thailand already...... People or an immigration officer saying he should be fluent already and doesnt need to be on a educational visa, that a personal opinion and not a official law or rule that is being followed that I'm aware of.

If it was down to him not being able to read that thai language after 6 months, the changes to the language school syllabus has only just been a recent change, year one students in my school this happen no more then 1-2 months ago. Also lessons being only 2 times a week at present it could be understandable that if he had no written or reading skills already, that they could still be at a basic level. So unless he could show zero understanding on the thai alphabet then at best it was very harsh to turn him round and refusing him entry.

If they suspect him of working they would need some proof to back this up also, The reason i say this is there must be many people here for many years in same situation who are going to be under scrutiny also next time they pass through immigration, There are a handful in my class who have been here for numerous years and just decided they want to improve their thai and doing the education visa route which is breaking no rules.

If he couldn't show the immigration sufficient funds entering Thailand as was stamped, i could find this plausible as it is a condition when you are filling in your education visa application that you have to prove funds for your stay. If he couldn't do that then he would have been rightfully rejected, but it isn't clear from the OP that happened.

I hope people are right who think there is more to this story, because without more information i find it worrying how the immigration officer came to the decision to refuse his entry since he had the correct paper work to enter and the true reason he got rejected entry, even thou it was the right decision.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Markphuket