Has Thailand finally killed the golden goose?

[John1thru10]

People on TVF are always talking about tourism from the perspective of a long-term expat, who knows a lot of details about Thailand. And every poster tries to say that tourism is down, due to their own, personal gripe. One guy below is sure it's because of what wine they serve. Another guy is sure that it's good if the economy is tanking, because later it will only be people his own age who think just like him, afterwards. Let me assure you, the rest of the world knows very little about Thailand, expect buzz words, and their friend's recent story.

They are not reading the news about top officials and corruption, nor do they care.

They are not aware of what the PM has to say, and don't even know who he is.

They don't know or care about jet-skis, or traffic.

They aren't judgemental about people for smoking weed, wearing shorts, or any of the things oldtimers here go off about.

They hear the word 'martial law'. They don't respect the idea.

Their friends tell them they got a hassle the last time they were here, and don't want to experience that.

They read briefly on the net about police stopping people for urine tests, and don't respect it (drugs or not...it's creepy).

They read stories (for a while now) that say people in Thailand are not allowed to vote anymore, and don't respect that.

They compare the prices of hotels and apartments with EU, and they find it's not cheap anymore.

End of story. It's very easy to understand if you're in regular touch with people under 50 around the world. The last coup really tarnished the country's word of mouth.

Edited December 4, 2014 by John1thru10

[amse]

My Thai neighbor friend originally worked on cruise ships but his wife wanted him home, so he's been a van driver transporting tourist with his own van for a few years now. he's definitely worried because his business is to low for this time of year. He has a 11 month old child and his wife talked him into buying a 3br, 2 story plex in Kathu Phuket for 2.5 million baht, and there's no kitchen which he has to have built back of the house, so he can't even live in it yet. The mall isn't packed with tourist like it should be, and most everywhere I go here.

[BritManToo]

My Thai neighbor friend originally worked on cruise ships but his wife wanted him home, so he's been a van driver transporting tourist with his own van for a few years now. he's definitely worried because his business is to low for this time of year. He has a 11 month old child and his wife talked him into buying a 3br, 2 story plex in Kathu Phuket for 2.5 million baht, and there's no kitchen which he has to have built back of the house, so he can't even live in it yet. The mall isn't packed with tourist like it should be, and most everywhere I go here.

Gas burner is about 700bht, it's warm outside, nobody needs to build a kitchen.

[ZAKY]

Sadly Thailand is not as exotic as it once was. The environment has been degraded terribly and the quality of beaches is terrible thanks to unchecked and rampant tourism development. Bangkok offers some nice attractions but is overcrowded, hot and polluted. Hotel prices are capping 100-200 dollars a night now. Many things tourists may desire such as clean air, beaches, good wine - are all now unavailable in Thailand but are freely available in countries others may consider closer to home or more affordable. Add in a coup, bad press, high profile deaths, corrupt police... well... TAT and Thailand really need a reality check and this could be a good catalyst which after a crash may prompt a rethink.

I fully agree about the wine ! Its a drama in thailand where you get good food but bad wine or wine service, some restaurants sell cheap quality wine, when you bring your own they charge you of a heavy corkage whereas as some restaurants does not serve wine at all but they still charge for corkage when you bring your own, to get a corkscrew in these same restaurants for opening your wine bottle is another issue...

[Digitalnomade]

time for them to lower their price. oh you bought a car and can not pay fuel? ... that s your problem, why did you buy a new car anyway knowing you must pay 10k bahts a month and you make only 12k.??

get rid of your expensive cars, get a second hand bike , run a cheap business and customers will come back.

this is how I became rich!

Edited December 4, 2014 by Digitalnomade

[lazygourmet]

Do you think they really care?!?

Domestic tourism is thriving this season...

Close to home: Wang Nam Keow will be -again- fully packed this weekend.

[elgordo38]

Well there's all that and the fact people are mostly skint regardless of propaganda pumped out by governments about how well economies are doing.

I reckon this is mostly down to disposable incomes and lack thereof.

Yes the old plastic is getting maxed out. Look at Black Friday sales in the USA. If things turn worse next year as expected tourism destinations will be hard hit as discretionary spending is the first to get axed. Then as another poster stated people are going to the surrounding countries. It seems every day the headlines in TV are of a murder or some scam.

[Emster23]

It has to be those beach chairs! That is the real deal breaker. Not the rip offs, lawlessness, corruption, discrimination: none of that matters if you have comfortable place to sit and take it all in. Either that or tourists have found better places to get "down", and it ain't from this old grey goose.

[PunkRockerGuy]

Does anyone have a clue how many Americans vacation in Thailand compared to Aussies and Europeans? I don't see that many when I'm there.

China's economy including exports is struggling. The Russian Ruble has crashed. Japan's economy is struggling.

I think it's currency values and economies that are doing at least some of this. Also, Thailand has become expensive. For people on a budget there are alternatives.

I'm American, but now officially retired after a massive Japanese import 2013 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 SX just took all the pep out of me, and having bone grafts and steel implants in both shoulders, implants in my right forearm and 2 experimental surgeries on my right femur, along with the 4 day coma and still enough pain to keep me on large doses of morphine and 2x/month hospital checkups. I traveled 30+ countries for business and start companies before landing in Thailand in 2002 working for some government officials which shall go unnamed ... plus I started one new Law Firm here in 2003 with a Korean partner.

I would never consider Thailand a tourist destination of mine, specifically WAY too hot (I like 20C at night for a good 6 months of the year and not much more than 26C in the day). Thailand has far too much corruption, scams, disorganization, always changing rules, etc., for me to come here for vacation. I am only cause I am married to my Thai wife, and we have businesses here and in Japan, and being back in the States was never a big pull for me after the Bush's. I traveled in lived in Bali for 6months and loved it ... hopped my first surfboard there at age 45 or so back in the mid-2000s. Tahiti, Samoa, Maldives, nice temperate countries like Ecuador where you have 4 different seasons if you travel 300 km N,S,E, or West.

I merely accept Thailand, and enjoy my wife and her family here. Vacation? Not a thought in a lifetime.

PRG

11

Edited December 4, 2014 by PunkRockerGuy

[simon43]

- Thais have made no effort to learn or willing to speak English

This....

The only reason why my little guesthouse is fully booked, compared to my Thai familys' guesthouses and those of Thai friends is because I speak English and 'understand' foreigners/foreign culture, whereas Thai people do not.

Think about it for a minute. When a foreigner visits Thailand for a holiday, they want to converse with the locals in a common language ==> English. They want the locals to understand some of the idiosynchrases (spelling!) of their culture. They do not want to be told 'you no understand Thailand, you no understand Thai people'.

I have lost count of the times that my guests have exclaimed 'Thank Heavens you are English/speak English'.

I am deeply grateful for the appalling Thai education system and Thai's ignorance of foreign cultures....

[KeithM]

From my part I was in Thailand and built a house and all that but it was never "mine" I left Thailand since and without even needing to marry I moved to Batam where I bought a house which is 100% mine without any local liability.... Batam is the only place in Indonesia that you can do this

I enjoy Indonesia a lot and work there ... I loved Thailand but only go for the odd break once in a while to see my friends from before

[Lex Talionis]

There is no golden goose. There's a feathery one that corks off golden eggs, though.

[khunPer]

»It's is now high season but where are the tourists?«...

...»Is this happening across the country or is it just here? In 9 years i have never seen it like this.«

The Russians cannot afford to come this year – awful bad exchange rate (down some 40% I read), many Russian tour operators bankrupt (have to pay bills in foreign currency) and customer’s deposits and prepayments lost, generally bad domestic economy with governmental service cut downs (just read about the huge saving cuts in public health sector).

Perhaps also media writings not-too-positive about Phuket may be have some influence.

Opposite site, in the Golf, where it’s (very) low season right now due to the monsoon period, seems to be as busy or more than usual for this time of the year – but not as many Russian tourist as normally (Russians use to come in the cheap low season, some years many budget resorts have been almost full) – so may be different from area-to-area.

However also here some bars have closed or are for sale – but that may merely be due to a general change in audience from single elder men to more couples and families with children are coming; the “usual suspects”, the growing number of party seeking young folks, prefers beach parties and discos or trendy cafés, and they have never really been a part of the beer-bar-life-style, to my knowledge.

[Kudel]

Online booking agency's have started their early booking campaign in oktober for the holiday season 2015 in my country instead of January February and are offering great deals for package holidays to places like Spain,Greece,Turkey etc...

According to said agency's people still want to spend money on a holiday even in times of economic downturn.

I booked a last minute for me and my three kids back in October for 7 days to the Turkish riviera wich cost 1400 euro's.

Included in Price:flight,2 rooms in five star beach resort beach vieuw all inclusive even minibar,3 meals a day all you can eat,fitness,spa ,sauna,animation for the kids,waterpark next to the hotel all drinks at swimmingpool bar,drinks at 24/7 bar brand name drinks, and the list goes on......

Airplaine tickets only to Thailand for 5 people cost me between 3500 and 4000 euro for the cheapest one's in 2012,no competing with the above.

[KeithM]

I would never cry about the lack of Russians arrogant bunch of cheapskates ... that would prefer to buy in 7/11 and sit outside ....

[masuk]

Thailand is under Marshall Law and under the control of an oppressive Military Junta.

The Police are out of control, backing the systematic scamming of visitors.

Are you going to plan your family holiday there?

Can't agree with the 'oppressive 'marshall' (sic) law.

If it weren't for the army guys, those crooks at the top of the police heap would still be scamming people and filling their underground vaults. Martial law is seeing beaches and parks returned to the people, taxi mafias being cleaned up. Maybe before too long the various mafiosi will stop leaning on clubs and bars and allow them to make a living.

The various murders through the year haven't helped. Kill a travel agent during a bag snatch, murder a few British tourists and make a cat's breakfast out of the evidence, zero in on Chinese tourists with bag snatching gangs. Head of a police department locked up for corruption along with a few of his mates. It goes on and on.

[Kudel]

Thailand is under Marshall Law and under the control of an oppressive Military Junta.

The Police are out of control, backing the systematic scamming of visitors.

Are you going to plan your family holiday there?

Can't agree with the 'oppressive 'marshall' (sic) law.

If it weren't for the army guys, those crooks at the top of the police heap would still be scamming people and filling their underground vaults. Martial law is seeing beaches and parks returned to the people, taxi mafias being cleaned up. Maybe before too long the various mafiosi will stop leaning on clubs and bars and allow them to make a living.

The various murders through the year haven't helped. Kill a travel agent during a bag snatch, murder a few British tourists and make a cat's breakfast out of the evidence, zero in on Chinese tourists with bag snatching gangs. Head of a police department locked up for corruption along with a few of his mates. It goes on and on.

Not wanting to turn this in to a political discussion,but how do you think most of the top army brass have made their fortune not from their salary and the human rights record of the army is also something to be considerd.

And removing a few top cops from office is just a facade.TIT baby.

[simon43]

I would never cry about the lack of Russians arrogant bunch of cheapskates ... that would prefer to buy in 7/11 and sit outside

Glass half empty or half full?? Go open a 7/11.....

[The manic]

From personal experience I can say Thailand is less expensive then Philippines and Indonesia, Vietnam and Cambodia I am sure are still less expensive but don't have the infrastructure that LOS has and with the baht dropping against the dollar I don't see it being getting anymore expensive.

However with all the negative publicity about corruption and the recent book that came out ranking LOS as very low on safety for tourists, I am sure a lot of people are staying home or find other destinations. I just left BKK and Nana was as dead as I have ever seen it. So either it is still early and the flocks will start arriving or else there is a serious economic down turn and it just isn't showing up on government's radar yet.

Either way it sucks for business owners and all those lovelies from ISAN might actually have to start dropping prices....

Yes the Nana hotel has not only just cancelled its all you can eat buffet but closes the restaurant down at 10:30 pm instead of keeping it open all night. Another sure sign of desperate times is that The Nana Hotel is now accepting Indians and Arabs. This is effectively the last nail in the coffin for the place unless of course then police set up a Piss test shop at reception.

[louse1953]

It's is now high season but where are the tourists? Has Thailand finally killed the golden goose with the problems this year, Koh Tao, Political issues, curfews, removal of beach chairs etc etc etc? This definitely looks that way, at least this season. Beaches aren't anymore busy than a normal low season, streets certain aren't packed with crowds, bars that use to have 30 odd people in them now have 5-10, shops are saying they don't have customers, so their stock increases for the high season are now sitting in back rooms.

This may be different in various parts of the country, however this is not just an observation, this is what is also being talked about with other business owners. I personally know of 16 bars that are closing down this month around Bangla. I also know 3 hotel owners that are closing and 9 shop owners that are closing their doors. This is just in Patong and certainly shouldn't be happing in high season where the most money is generally made.

A few friends of mine who normally come here yearly as well as a number of customers are heading to Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia and Bali this time because they are all tired of the scams and problems here and have all said it is now getting too expensive compared to other destinations.

Is this happening across the country or is it just here? In 9 years i have never seen it like this.

Its true, i have seen the same thing, to my opinion is that each leader at the head of this country bring its lot to what degree of positiveness? or what degree of negativeness ? We will never have the right middle !Thaksin is a buisiness person; so is Yinluck. They have acted accordingly ! Prayut is a military...

5555,who was Takky and Yinny in business for

[Christie Paul]

Do you think they really care?!?

Domestic tourism is thriving this season...

Close to home: Wang Nam Keow will be -again- fully packed this weekend.

I've been there...but it was closed.

[krisb]

Give it a week or 2.

Still not holidays for alot of us still working.

[Christie Paul]

A great number of tourists are regulars and are often connected with long term stayers.

They are not much concerned about danger, corruption and rip off's, they know the drill.

But they are very much concerned with the fact that many long term stayers are being pushed out. They are concerned about urine tests. And they are enormously sensitive around the growing anti-farang sentiment.

There are lots of others who look for potential business and investment opportunities. Which have gone form marginal to zero.

A strong prevailing attitude is, well it was kind of fun and there was some potential, but now its just too damned ugly, too difficult, a bit on the pricey side and there are other places.

Cambodia will do well.

[BritManToo]

A great number of tourists are regulars and are often connected with long term stayers.

They are not much concerned about danger, corruption and rip off's, they know the drill.

But they are very much concerned with the fact that many long term stayers are being pushed out. They are concerned about urine tests. And they are enormously sensitive around the growing anti-farang sentiment.

There are lots of others who look for potential business and investment opportunities. Which have gone form marginal to zero.

A strong prevailing attitude is, well it was kind of fun and there was some potential, but now its just too damned ugly, too difficult, a bit on the pricey side and there are other places.

Cambodia will do well.

Great post except for the Cambodia part.

The population of Cambodia is the brutalized thugs that remained after they killed everyone else.

It's a nasty violent place with a brutal desensitized population.

[lazygourmet]

Do you think they really care?!?

Domestic tourism is thriving this season...

Close to home: Wang Nam Keow will be -again- fully packed this weekend.

I've been there...but it was closed.

Indeed, several resorts have been closed down for land encroachment of the natural park.

Good riddance actually...

Be more choosy next time regarding where you want to spend your money.

Edited December 4, 2014 by lazygourmet

[lazygourmet]

A great number of tourists are regulars and are often connected with long term stayers.

They are not much concerned about danger, corruption and rip off's, they know the drill.

But they are very much concerned with the fact that many long term stayers are being pushed out. They are concerned about urine tests. And they are enormously sensitive around the growing anti-farang sentiment.

There are lots of others who look for potential business and investment opportunities. Which have gone form marginal to zero.

A strong prevailing attitude is, well it was kind of fun and there was some potential, but now its just too damned ugly, too difficult, a bit on the pricey side and there are other places.

Cambodia will do well.

Great post except for the Cambodia part.

The population of Cambodia is the brutalized thugs that remained after they killed everyone else.

It's a nasty violent place with a brutal desensitized population.

How can you ever trust the only folks -Khmer- on this planet who commited an auto-genocide?!?

[IAMHERE]

As an Aussie, Thailand has done nothing to the 'ole Goose.

But pure economics play a role.

The Aussie has declined by 10% recently against the Thai Baht.

The Russian Rouble has crashed.

If the Yuan is roughly pegged to the USD.

You might get more Chinese and USA tourists ... that would have to be good ... wouldn't it?

Any USA tourist worth his salt made vacation plans way before the dollar starting getting stronger. Very few tourist thought to book passage to Thailand during last summer when plans were being made. No golden goose died but plenty of greener grass elsewhere.

[greensun]

When not looking at the past, what will the future bring?

Who are the customers in the future and how to serve them in the way they will come back in following years?

[Loptr]

I would say that the drop in tourists is based on two factors, the Som Nom Na factor and the state of global economies...

It was only a matter of time before the stories circulated wide enough about the scams, robberies, druggings, murders, extortion by the plod, etc. and scared off a segment of tourists...

As much a factor is the state of global economies, which have been in the toilet since '08...

[ggt]

The apologist would say...Scams? What Scams? We have no Scams...just disgruntled old fat tourists making Thailand look bad...

Truth is the geese are flying over Thailand...having found more fertile feeding grounds without being shot at so often...

Edited December 4, 2014 by ggt