xTired of being a target for opportunity

[paulhen]

I have lived in Chiang Mai for three years and am very tired tired of being seen as an opportnity by so Thai. Twice I have had bad Thai drivers leave me as road kill, not caring if I was alive or dead, as they drove away knowing they were wrong. Meanwhile I have had to pay hospital and doctor bills and to my motorbike. I have also had several minor incidents and simply paid a token sum to be on my way.

Just back from the plaza. As I weaved in and around traffic jam, the front of an old wreck of songtaew clipped the rear rack of my bike. No damage and where we scraped each other (no way of knowing who clipped who as both of us were only moving slightly) his fender had been damaged so many times before, there was no seeing even a fresh scrape, but he points me into a gas station so I go. He parks and tells passengers to get off. I smell an extortionate move in play so I tell him to write my number plate and call police. I drove off. We will see. I am very bored of this kind of nonsense after all the damage to me and my bike that Thais have caused and run away and leave me to pay for it all.

My Thai friends fear the songtaew drivers, even when they are passengers and there is a dispute over the fare as so often there is, especially in low season. But I have met many very good hearted songtaew drivers and those are the ones I prefer to remember. It is a very tough way to make a living, long hours and aggravating traffic and often crazy high rents for their vehicles. But so many of these drivers cause so much distress to tourists, it is to the detriment of all in the country.

Edited December 4, 2014 by paulhen

[guzzi850m2]

Sorry to hear about your problems.

Been riding here for over 10 years and minor accidents and never thrown off the bike(s).

If you have a bigger bike you can have a class A insurance and they will sort out all disputes and pay your medical bills too.

The baht bus drivers in Pattaya can be nasty, one got angry at me and cut me off and I had to brake very hard to avoid a collision.

They will gang up on you if it turns ugly so smile and nod and leave, hoping bad karma hits him hard later in life. They see you as the rich farang with money so if they get the chance, they take it.

[paulhen]

guzzi850m2,

I defer to your ten years versus my three. But it does not matter. If a Thai moves to North America, they are quickly assimilated (for better or worse) and they will pay the same price for transportation, food, entertainment and rent as any other. But in Thailand we are destined to be farang till the day we die.

Thais are very bad drivers on the whole, and they undergo a personality change when in/on a vehicle. I have been hit hard by a car and a truck mirror while I was walking in the past few months. They drive far too fast with little skill and little common sense. Most farangs here have similar experiences while walking, bicycling, motorbiking or driving cars, only much worse. And if witnessed by a Thai, you sure do not want to count on them to identify the culprit if they them. I have two insurance policies on my motorbike and an accident policy, by the way. Now if they covered extortion, then that would be something!!

By the way, my bike is a Honda CBR250R - only thought of as a big bike in Asia. And in the past couple of years this is changing with the onslaught of real big bikes, even rentals.

Thanks for your sympathy, but save it for all of us.

Edited December 4, 2014 by paulhen

[OmegaRacer]

Been here 8 years and ride everyday. Only once I had a pickup stopping in front of me in the middle of the road and slowly reversing into my bike, damaging the front fender. They apologized, followed me to my trusted bike shop and paid the bill in advance.

Had a few close calls but nothing I couldn't avoid. So far so good.....Touch wood

[moe666]

I love all the nonsense being posted here, I recently had an accident a bit out in the country the cops took me to breakfast and bought it for me never a word about tea money, I was fined 400 baht reckless driving and was on my way and the accident was myfault. Stop complaining about the Thais and look at your own driving or bike handling skills.

[dave_boo]

I've been riding in Thailand for 9 years and have only ever had one accident with another vehicle. It was totally her fault, but other than a damaged pannier I and my bike were ok.

Can I humbly submit that perhaps (at least) 6 incidents in 3 years suggests that the OP is either still not familiar with the unwritten road rules here in Thailand, can not react quickly enough for the situations, or is quite possibly not good enough of a rider to be on the roads?

[BSJ]

Ok, I will agree that most Thai's are really bad drivers and riders.....if you are out of sync with the ebb and flow of the traffic around you. But once you find harmony with the traffic your going to be fine.....unless your really stupid!

[ttakata]

I met a nice Farang lady that volunteers at a pet shelter.

She told me she was limping because a tuktuk driver hit her while she was walking on the side of the road, then he pointed at her, laughed, and drove off.

I could see she was seriously hurt and did not get any impression she was making up this story.

At Rama 4 in front of the big railway station, I've seen the tuktuk drivers drinking beers.

I wouldn't doubt if many were on drugs too.

Sadly tourists feed these overpriced tutktuks all over the region.

A 200 baht ride is nothing to a Westerner, but they don't know you can take an air conditioned metered taxi for 50 baht.

Even I was a sucker once.

My Thai GF avoids tutktuks too.

[DogNo1]

Most of the tuktuks that I see in Bangkok are sitting idle. It seems that they are only used by naive tourists. Everybody who has been here for a while knows that they should be avoided (I think.)

[seedy]

Ok, I will agree that most Thai's are really bad drivers and riders.....if you are out of sync with the ebb and flow of the traffic around you. But once you find harmony with the traffic your going to be fine.....unless your really stupid!

Was told on arrival - by a 30 year Expat - that Thai traffic is like a flow of water. Any space not occupied will soon be. Ride using more peripheral vision - this detects movement more easily and has saved me countless times.

Avoid target fixation.

[masuk]

I met a nice Farang lady that volunteers at a pet shelter.

She told me she was limping because a tuktuk driver hit her while she was walking on the side of the road, then he pointed at her, laughed, and drove off.

I could see she was seriously hurt and did not get any impression she was making up this story.

At Rama 4 in front of the big railway station, I've seen the tuktuk drivers drinking beers.

I wouldn't doubt if many were on drugs too.

Sadly tourists feed these overpriced tutktuks all over the region.

A 200 baht ride is nothing to a Westerner, but they don't know you can take an air conditioned metered taxi for 50 baht.

Even I was a sucker once.

My Thai GF avoids tutktuks too.

You're lucky to be able to get a taxi. Never see them in Chiang Mai, unless the company has been phoned and they come and collect you. I can only guess why we never see taxis, and your guess is as good as mine.

Come on General / PM. Come and visit us.

[catman20]

I find most farangs that live here or stay here long time end up driving or riding bikes like the Thais, ive had just as many probs with stupid farangs that pull out of a side road without stopping or looking.

[Rimbuman]

Ok, I will agree that most Thai's are really bad drivers and riders.....if you are out of sync with the ebb and flow of the traffic around you. But once you find harmony with the traffic your going to be fine.....unless your really stupid!

Was told on arrival - by a 30 year Expat - that Thai traffic is like a flow of water. Any space not occupied will soon be. Ride using more peripheral vision - this detects movement more easily and has saved me countless times.

Avoid target fixation.

These are dynamic posts

[SOTIRIOS]

.....I was cut off by a teenager on a motorbike...joyriding with his 2 buddies...he hit the side of the vehicle..and he fell.....he tried to blame me....

....on another incident.....I tried to pass a vehicle on a 2-way, 2-lane highway.....the oncoming car sped up considerably....and I was cut off.......

...insurance covered it...

...but the second incident.....I could have been killed......the person who cut me off never stopped.........

[dave_boo]

I find most farangs that live here or stay here long time end up driving or riding bikes like the Thais, ive had just as many probs with stupid farangs that pull out of a side road without stopping or looking.

Come up country where there aren't stupid farangs to do that! You must live where there's a LOT of farangs if the rate you have negative experiences with them is the same as Thais. Either that, or you're saying statistically farangs are an order of multitude more stupid than Thais as so many fewer of them can do as many stupid things as all the Thais encountered.

[AllanB]

I have been riding in Thailand for 5 years, a few near misses but no accidents, thanks be to whoever is up there. I ride extremely defensively, expecting anything at any time from anyone, or anything, animal vegetable, or mineral. I few years ago I watched and published on this forum, an Asian accident compilation video and learned a lot from that.

Okay I ride mainly in Khon Kaen, which is, I guess different and easier to BKK and SM, so I am less at risk, but if I did I would do the same and do so in my truck too, which I have driven all over Thailand.

I have seen a lot of accidents, all involving Thais and in probably half those, someone has ridden off to avoid consequences, the remainder have been unable to do so. So am not sure whether this is an anti-Farang thing, I think it is just the Thai way.

I am told that 75% of bikers in KK don't have a licence and having taken my test here, am not sure it makes much difference, the practical took less than a minute, I didn't actually fall off, so got my licence.

As for songtail drivers they are good here, no problem, but this a Isaan city, not a holiday destination, or crazy BKK .

My view is that defensive driving is less exciting, but lower risk, big wing mirrors help too...hope my luck holds out.

........Oh and I wear 3 bits of string around my wrist and that seems to work too, they use it instead of insurance, helmets, eyesight, hearing and road-skills.

Edited December 5, 2014 by AllanB

[csabo]

I met a nice Farang lady that volunteers at a pet shelter.

She told me she was limping because a tuktuk driver hit her while she was walking on the side of the road, then he pointed at her, laughed, and drove off.

I could see she was seriously hurt and did not get any impression she was making up this story.

At Rama 4 in front of the big railway station, I've seen the tuktuk drivers drinking beers.

I wouldn't doubt if many were on drugs too.

Sadly tourists feed these overpriced tutktuks all over the region.

A 200 baht ride is nothing to a Westerner, but they don't know you can take an air conditioned metered taxi for 50 baht.

Even I was a sucker once.

My Thai GF avoids tutktuks too.

For fun, when the tuk tuk driver asks me if I want a ride I will ask how much. Then when he says 200% more than an air conditioned taxi, I stop walking and ask why I would pay that when I could ride in comfort for less. Then I wait for an answer. Then they typically start walking away, mumbling insults in Thai, while me and the GF cool off in a taxi. Ahh the simple pleasures in life....

[NoshowJones]

Been here 8 years and ride everyday. Only once I had a pickup stopping in front of me in the middle of the road and slowly reversing into my bike, damaging the front fender. They apologized, followed me to my trusted bike shop and paid the bill in advance.

Had a few close calls but nothing I couldn't avoid. So far so good.....Touch wood

Yes, touch wood, I'm the same, driven cars and rode motorbikes in Thailand for nine years and never an accident, I am a big critic of Thai drivers and motorcyclists, about 90% of them are not fit to drive or ride <deleted>

I would say that if you make a point of never speeding, watching for other drivers mistakes and lack of intelligence, and always being aware of what is going on around you, then I would say you have a 99% chance of not being involved in an accident, apart from someone hitting you while you are stationary.

[mynameisphil]

The flow of water thing is pretty spot on.

I've had a few close calls and been knocked off the bike once, each time cars involved. Never have a problem with other bikes. The time I got knocked off.. I had just turned off the moat in CM onto Huay Kaew road, riding along and a car was sat ready to make an illegal u-turn where the road divider starts. I'm riding along and as I get closer she starts pulling out. I think.. .. she can see I'm here surely.. but she ends up pulling horizontally into the road, too wide for one good turn into my traffic.

I slam on the brakes and aim for a small gap between her fender and the kerb, the tyre screeches and I slide about 5m, half through the gap when she actually drives forward a bit more closing the gap and knocking the back end. I come off and roll up the road a bit. Get up, only scratches on bike and myself, turn around and shes out of her car (which is left blocking the road). Her front fender is on the floor, her car has definitely come off a lot worse than I have.

We stand on the pavement and I look annoyed but not angry, more just sighing and say 'Ok..' but she waves me off with 'Mai Pen Raii! Mai Pen Rai!', makes a sad sound when she spots her fender, picks it up and leaves it on the pavement then gets in and drives away.

Pretty surreal all things considered. Clearly she knew she was an idiot and in the wrong otherwise I'm sure I woulda been taken for some cash at least.

Edited December 5, 2014 by mynameisphil

[NoshowJones]

I find most farangs that live here or stay here long time end up driving or riding bikes like the Thais, ive had just as many probs with stupid farangs that pull out of a side road without stopping or looking.

That will be the ones who never had a driving licence in their own country.

[macknife]

Most of the tuktuks that I see in Bangkok are sitting idle. It seems that they are only used by naive tourists. Everybody who has been here for a while knows that they should be avoided (I think.)

Do you live in Bangkok? If you do, I guess you don't get out much. Away from tourists areas tuk tuks are used by locals all the time, for a considerably smaller fee.

[seedy]

Do you live in Bangkok? If you do, I guess you don't get out much. Away from tourists areas tuk tuks are used by locals all the time, for a considerably smaller fee.

Chiang Mail too. Mistake all falang for tourists. Ask price first, when it is too high, smile and walk away. Most time get called back with an offer of 1/2 the original. Offer half of the second price and you will be in the ballpark to what the local people pay.

But I don't use them much - too tall !

[mikemac]

I met a nice Farang lady that volunteers at a pet shelter.

She told me she was limping because a tuktuk driver hit her while she was walking on the side of the road, then he pointed at her, laughed, and drove off.

I could see she was seriously hurt and did not get any impression she was making up this story.

At Rama 4 in front of the big railway station, I've seen the tuktuk drivers drinking beers.

I wouldn't doubt if many were on drugs too.

Sadly tourists feed these overpriced tutktuks all over the region.

A 200 baht ride is nothing to a Westerner, but they don't know you can take an air conditioned metered taxi for 50 baht.

Even I was a sucker once.

My Thai GF avoids tutktuks too.

....................."Even I was a sucker once.".......................

Well I am not going to be suckered, not this time. I don't believe a word of your anecdote regarding the nice farang lady who volunteers at the animal shelter and the evil tuk-tuk driver.

Only a matter of time before you turn on the air conditioned taxis.

[duanebigsby]

Been here 8 years and ride everyday. Only once I had a pickup stopping in front of me in the middle of the road and slowly reversing into my bike, damaging the front fender. They apologized, followed me to my trusted bike shop and paid the bill in advance.

Had a few close calls but nothing I couldn't avoid. So far so good.....Touch wood

Yes, touch wood, I'm the same, driven cars and rode motorbikes in Thailand for nine years and never an accident, I am a big critic of Thai drivers and motorcyclists, about 90% of them are not fit to drive or ride, mostly due to very little intelligence.

I would say that if you make a point of never speeding, watching for other drivers mistakes and lack of intelligence, and always being aware of what is going on around you, then I would say you have a 99% chance of not being involved in an accident, apart from someone hitting you while you are stationary.

It's not due to little intelligence, it's lack of driver's education and a history of not following or enforcing rules and driving standards.

Many developing countries have the same issues.

Quit blaming Thailand's problems on "low intelligence."

That's just a way to make you feel superior.

[Si Thea01]

Take my hats off to you guys who ride motorcycles here. I have ridden big bikes all my life, the last being a Yamaha 1500 sports tourer back in Oz. As I have had a few operations on my legs I sold it, as the handling became difficult for me but when I came to Thailand, I thought why not, I'll buy a small 150cc to get around and also have a vehicle for the longer trips.

Went out, got my licenses for a car and motorcycle, then proceeded to do some research. After awhile I spoke with a man in our village and he let me take his motorcycle for a ride around the village. It was the sort of bike I was contemplating. buying but .after 10 minutes I returned and vowed never to ride another one again.

Could not believe how others rode in the village. It's not a small village in the sticks; we are situated in a large regional city and there are over 400 homes and many, many sois but the riders just come from anywhere, do not know the road rules, turn right from the left hand lane, left from the right hand lane, and definitely do not know what red means at the traffic lights.

The next day I told my wife, take me to the Honda dealership, which she duly did but it was the bike shop. I said, no way, for a car and later that day I had bought myself a CRV and am so glad I did. Even with the drivers, many are quite good but then many are downright dangerous and again, have no knowledge of or any regard for the road rules. But at least I feel reasonably safe and for extra precautions I have installed two video cams, one front, the other at the rear for the just in case.

Again, if you're a motorcyclist here then I take my hat off to you because I am not afraid to admit it, I don't have the guts to ride here, where the chances of being a target of opportunity or at the worst, a victim, is multiplied by the 1000's, as in comparison to back in OZ. Needless to say, never renewed the cycle license.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Si Thea01

[mikemac]

Been here 8 years and ride everyday. Only once I had a pickup stopping in front of me in the middle of the road and slowly reversing into my bike, damaging the front fender. They apologized, followed me to my trusted bike shop and paid the bill in advance.

Had a few close calls but nothing I couldn't avoid. So far so good.....Touch wood

Yes, touch wood, I'm the same, driven cars and rode motorbikes in Thailand for nine years and never an accident, I am a big critic of Thai drivers and motorcyclists, about 90% of them are not fit to drive or ride, mostly due to very little intelligence.

I would say that if you make a point of never speeding, watching for other drivers mistakes and lack of intelligence, and always being aware of what is going on around you, then I would say you have a 99% chance of not being involved in an accident, apart from someone hitting you while you are stationary.

It's not due to little intelligence, it's lack of driver's education and a history of not following or enforcing rules and driving standards.

Many developing countries have the same issues.

Quit blaming Thailand's problems on "low intelligence."

That's just a way to make you feel superior.

@ duanebigsby - Reading your comment made me think of something, in the last eight years I have read countless comments from Western posters who love to make comments regarding the Thais having little or no intelligence (compared to the mentally superior westerner)

At the same time I have read so many stories about foreigners coming to grief, for one reason or another (it is never their fault, always the evil Thai's fault) and I am sure that a certain percentage of these "incidents" occurred due to the westerner's "lack of intelligence".

I wonder if the two ever overlap ?

PS - Anyone who lives in a foreign country and spends their time making comments on a forum about the locals lacking intelligence is really showing their lack thereof.

[NoshowJones]

Been here 8 years and ride everyday. Only once I had a pickup stopping in front of me in the middle of the road and slowly reversing into my bike, damaging the front fender. They apologized, followed me to my trusted bike shop and paid the bill in advance.

Had a few close calls but nothing I couldn't avoid. So far so good.....Touch wood

Yes, touch wood, I'm the same, driven cars and rode motorbikes in Thailand for nine years and never an accident, I am a big critic of Thai drivers and motorcyclists, about 90% of them are not fit to drive or ride, mostly due to very little intelligence.

I would say that if you make a point of never speeding, watching for other drivers mistakes and lack of intelligence, and always being aware of what is going on around you, then I would say you have a 99% chance of not being involved in an accident, apart from someone hitting you while you are stationary.

It's not due to little intelligence, it's lack of driver's education and a history of not following or enforcing rules and driving standards.

Many developing countries have the same issues.

Quit blaming Thailand's problems on "low intelligence."

That's just a way to make you feel superior.

@ duanebigsby - Reading your comment made me think of something, in the last eight years I have read countless comments from Western posters who love to make comments regarding the Thais having little or no intelligence (compared to the mentally superior westerner)

At the same time I have read so many stories about foreigners coming to grief, for one reason or another (it is never their fault, always the evil Thai's fault) and I am sure that a certain percentage of these "incidents" occurred due to the westerner's "lack of intelligence".

I wonder if the two ever overlap ?

PS - Anyone who lives in a foreign country and spends their time making comments on a forum about the locals lacking intelligence is really showing their lack thereof.

Ok, then I will change lack of intelligence to lack of common sense, is there really much difference, particularly where driving or riding M/Cs are concerned? Is it lack of common sense to drive or ride on the wrong side of the road? to not look before entering a main road at a junction? for parents to allow their underage kids to ride M/Cs on busy roads? etc, etc.

Driving requires much common sense, which most Thai drivers don't have, accuse me of Thai bashing if you like, but I call things as I see them, and you may disagree if you wish. But before you do, ask yourself the main season for around 70% of fatalities in Thailand every day.

[ll2]

I had no problems with thai drivers and i find them kind.

Op, next time just continue to ride your bike if same happens with tuk tuks and sangtaews.

[carter1882]

I think the OP, paulhen, must be a considerable danger to both himself and other road users. The almighty chip that he has on his shoulder must make him very unstable, especially in traffic.

[ggt]

This is just one example of a host of opportunities for targeting that ex-pats and tourist have to endure...thanks for sharing your story...