Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[loonodingle]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

We've come to expect such flaccid reasoning from those who are shielding the Headman's people. And this item has been addressed already, but I'll repeat: If a top brass is just starting an investigation, he's not going to pulled from the job, all of a sudden, by higher ups, unless there's a compelling reason to do so. The main reason: He was barking up the wrong tree (accumulating evidence which implicated the real suspects). A secondary reason: the taxi driver who came forth claiming he was offered Bt.300k to snitch, and also claiming police beat him to comply. When the replacement showed up, all the evidence against the Headman's people was trashed, and the frame-up against the B3 was implemented. Since then, no evidence whatsoever has come forth from Thai officialdom which points to the Headman's people. AleG's assertion is as solid as a piece of tissue in a toilet bowl.

You are speculating, as usual, making things up as you go. How about you try for once to find the facts instead?

You're vague as usual, and adding nothing to the discussion, except blanket denials slopped on every sort of well-reasoned contributions. You and the other denialists can't add specifics or details to the discussion, so you digress to defensive tactics while alluding, once in awhile to the seriousness of defamation of character suits. Defamation suits are what people like Thaksin use to try and shut up people who seek to speak the truth.

You want facts? Here are some facts put forth by Thai officialdom:

>>> "A Thai person couldn't have done this"

>>> "attractive farang women should be careful when wearing bikinis..."

>>> "The hoe was the weapon used to kill David"

>>> "The wounds on David were from the sharp end of the hoe"

>>> "We found Hannah's stolen phone behind the Burmeses' dwelling."

>>> "The two Burmese saw the two farang having sex, which threw them in to a killing and raping rage."

>>> "There are no scapegoats in this case"

>>> "If the DNA matches, then the Burmese must be the murderers and the rapists."

AleG, you can believe 'em all, if you choose.

And just like that you slither away; when caught talking BS, peddle some other BS as a smoke screen.

Crikey calm down lads... This isn't a place to have personal slanging matches is it. If you don't have something productive to say then keep quiet. 2 people have been murdered in the most horrendous way.

All it takes is one person with 1 bit of irrefutable evidence to speak up and it could turn on its head. The carefully built house of cards that is protecting the killers will fall down and they will be exposed.

Jesus

[BritTim]

berybert, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:42, said:berybert, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:42, said:

IslandLover, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:32, said:IslandLover, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:32, said:

loonodingle, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:09, said:loonodingle, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:09, said:loonodingle, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:09, said:loonodingle, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:09, said:

Thai island murder investigation hits a wall of silence With locals unwilling to talk on an island with a powerful hidden underworld, fears grow that the truth behind the brutal murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge may never be heard

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111532/Thai-island-murder-investigation-hits-a-wall-of-silence.html

I noticed something curious in this article.

Wailwinphyo, a 21-year-old migrant from Burma who works as a fire juggler at the bar, said there were dozens of drinkers there for his Sunday night performance.

and

He, too, claimed to have no memory of seeing the couple at the bar and says he saw them for the first time the following morning on the beach. By that time they were dead.

"I saw two bodies but we didn't see their faces – they were covered with towels," he said.

Isn't the suspect "Win" also known as Wai Phyo? He was also referred to as Cho in some reports. BTW it was Cho, or Win, who was arrested in Surat Thani after fleeing the island.

EDIT: my last sentence is not supposed to be in italics but I cannot remove it for some reason.

No it was Soe who was arrested in Surat Thani. He was aged between 25 to 27. Get with the program.

The report I read said his name was "Cho" and yes it said he was aged between 25 to 27. "Cho" was later identified as "Win". We now know that both "Win" and "Zaw" are 21, so perhaps the age of the suspect "Cho" was initially misreported, like so many other things about this case. We have another poster on here who claimed it was "Maung Maung" who was arrested in Surat Thani. So which is it? I don't know for sure. Do you? It was also suggested that the man who fled to Surat Thani did so because he was an illegal migrant. The only one of the suspected trio of Win, Zaw and Maung Maung who seems to have a legitimate passport is Zaw.

The most reliable post I read suggested that the Burmese who was arrested (getting off the 9:00 pm ferry from Koh Tao) in Surat Thani had fled just after being interrogated by the police and released. This is consistent with the many other Burmese who fled when they feared becoming embroiled in the case.

[berybert]

No it was Soe who was arrested in Surat Thani. He was aged between 25 to 27. Get with the program.

I noticed something curious in this article.

Wailwinphyo, a 21-year-old migrant from Burma who works as a fire juggler at the bar, said there were dozens of drinkers there for his Sunday night performance.

and

He, too, claimed to have no memory of seeing the couple at the bar and says he saw them for the first time the following morning on the beach. By that time they were dead.

"I saw two bodies but we didn't see their faces – they were covered with towels," he said.

Isn't the suspect "Win" also known as Wai Phyo? He was also referred to as Cho in some reports. BTW it was Cho, or Win, who was arrested in Surat Thani after fleeing the island.

EDIT: my last sentence is not supposed to be in italics but I cannot remove it for some reason.

The report I read said his name was "Cho" and yes it said he was aged between 25 to 27. "Cho" was later identified as "Win". We now know that both "Win" and "Zaw" are 21, so perhaps the age of the suspect "Cho" was initially misreported, like so many other things about this case. We have another poster on here who claimed it was "Maung Maung" who was arrested in Surat Thani. So which is it? I don't know for sure. Do you? It was also suggested that the man who fled to Surat Thani did so because he was an illegal migrant. The only one of the suspected trio of Win, Zaw and Maung Maung who seems to have a legitimate passport is Zaw.

The most reliable post I read suggested that the Burmese who was arrested (getting off the 9:00 pm ferry from Koh Tao) in Surat Thani had fled just after being interrogated by the police and released. This is consistent with the many other Burmese who fled when they feared becoming embroiled in the case.

Yeah right. Getting off the ferry a week after killing two people. No rush, nothing to see here.

Edited January 1, 2015 by berybert

[BritTim]

The most reliable post I read suggested that the Burmese who was arrested (getting off the 9:00 pm ferry from Koh Tao) in Surat Thani had fled just after being interrogated by the police and released. This is consistent with the many other Burmese who fled when they feared becoming embroiled in the case.

Yeah right. Getting off the ferry a week after killing two people. No rush, nothing to see here.

Funny, we agree, but I am not sure you understand that. He felt no reason to flee until he feared being framed.

[berybert]

The most reliable post I read suggested that the Burmese who was arrested (getting off the 9:00 pm ferry from Koh Tao) in Surat Thani had fled just after being interrogated by the police and released. This is consistent with the many other Burmese who fled when they feared becoming embroiled in the case.

Yeah right. Getting off the ferry a week after killing two people. No rush, nothing to see here.

Funny, we agree, but I am not sure you understand that. He felt no reason to flee until he feared being framed.

Oh good glad we agree, was just the fact you mentioned he fled after being questioned. No one fled after being questioned.

Bit like pick a card any card. See what I mean ?

[IslandLover]

BritTim, on 01 Jan 2015 - 17:35, said:

IslandLover, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:56, said:

berybert, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:42, said:

The most reliable post I read suggested that the Burmese who was arrested (getting off the 9:00 pm ferry from Koh Tao) in Surat Thani had fled just after being interrogated by the police and released. This is consistent with the many other Burmese who fled when they feared becoming embroiled in the case.

What I really wanted to draw posters' attention to was this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111532/Thai-island-murder-investigation-hits-a-wall-of-silence.html

I noticed something curious in this article.

Wailwinphyo, a 21-year-old migrant from Burma who works as a fire juggler at the bar, said there were dozens of drinkers there for his Sunday night performance.

He, too, claimed to have no memory of seeing the couple at the bar and says he saw them for the first time the following morning on the beach. By that time they were dead.

"I saw two bodies but we didn't see their faces – they were covered with towels," he said.

(Sorry, but I can't get the italics out of the rest of this post)

My question: Isn't the suspect "Win" also known as Wai Phyo?

Did the Telegraph reporter actually speak to Win after the murders, I wonder?

Does anyone know for sure where Win was working? Was he a fire juggler at the AC bar? It is known that Zaw and Maung Maung were working at the AC Two bar and they were both pictured in the early DNA testing line-up but information on Win has been very sketchy and misleading. Another thing that is puzzling me is the report that the one who was arrested in Surat Thani had recently dyed his hair from blond to black. Now none of the three Burmese pictured on the motorbike on the night of the murders appears to have "blond" hair but .... I have seen an old photo of Win where he has reddish-brown highlights in his hair (like so many Asian lads trying to look cool). It's really hard to know what is misinformation in the reporting on this case and what is the truth.

[boomerangutang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

We've come to expect such flaccid reasoning from those who are shielding the Headman's people. And this item has been addressed already, but I'll repeat: If a top brass is just starting an investigation, he's not going to pulled from the job, all of a sudden, by higher ups, unless there's a compelling reason to do so. The main reason: He was barking up the wrong tree (accumulating evidence which implicated the real suspects). A secondary reason: the taxi driver who came forth claiming he was offered Bt.300k to snitch, and also claiming police beat him to comply. When the replacement showed up, all the evidence against the Headman's people was trashed, and the frame-up against the B3 was implemented. Since then, no evidence whatsoever has come forth from Thai officialdom which points to the Headman's people. AleG's assertion is as solid as a piece of tissue in a toilet bowl.

You are speculating, as usual, making things up as you go. How about you try for once to find the facts instead?

You're vague as usual, and adding nothing to the discussion, except blanket denials slopped on every sort of well-reasoned contributions. You and the other denialists can't add specifics or details to the discussion, so you digress to defensive tactics while alluding, once in awhile to the seriousness of defamation of character suits. Defamation suits are what people like Thaksin use to try and shut up people who seek to speak the truth.

You want facts? Here are some facts put forth by Thai officialdom:

>>> "A Thai person couldn't have done this"

>>> "attractive farang women should be careful when wearing bikinis..."

>>> "The hoe was the weapon used to kill David"

>>> "The wounds on David were from the sharp end of the hoe"

>>> "We found Hannah's stolen phone behind the Burmeses' dwelling."

>>> "The two Burmese saw the two farang having sex, which threw them in to a killing and raping rage."

>>> "There are no scapegoats in this case"

>>> "If the DNA matches, then the Burmese must be the murderers and the rapists."

AleG, you can believe 'em all, if you choose.

And just like that you slither away; when caught talking BS, peddle some other BS as a smoke screen.

True to form, you're vague, rude, and have nada to add the discussion. You can't even refute any of my allegations, except with vague denials or puerile name-calling. One question: do you agree with RTP that David was killed by the hoe? yes or no?

[IslandLover]

BritTim, on 01 Jan 2015 - 18:10, said:

berybert, on 01 Jan 2015 - 17:48, said:

BritTim, on 01 Jan 2015 - 17:35, said:

The most reliable post I read suggested that the Burmese who was arrested (getting off the 9:00 pm ferry from Koh Tao) in Surat Thani had fled just after being interrogated by the police and released. This is consistent with the many other Burmese who fled when they feared becoming embroiled in the case.

Yeah right. Getting off the ferry a week after killing two people. No rush, nothing to see here.

Funny, we agree, but I am not sure you understand that. He felt no reason to flee until he feared being framed.

@BritTim - pay no attention to berybert, he/she is just being deliberately argumentative, i.e. trolling.

[berybert]

BritTim, on 01 Jan 2015 - 17:35, said:

IslandLover, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:56, said:

berybert, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:42, said:

The most reliable post I read suggested that the Burmese who was arrested (getting off the 9:00 pm ferry from Koh Tao) in Surat Thani had fled just after being interrogated by the police and released. This is consistent with the many other Burmese who fled when they feared becoming embroiled in the case.

What I really wanted to draw posters' attention to was this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111532/Thai-island-murder-investigation-hits-a-wall-of-silence.html

I noticed something curious in this article.

Wailwinphyo, a 21-year-old migrant from Burma who works as a fire juggler at the bar, said there were dozens of drinkers there for his Sunday night performance.

He, too, claimed to have no memory of seeing the couple at the bar and says he saw them for the first time the following morning on the beach. By that time they were dead.

"I saw two bodies but we didn't see their faces – they were covered with towels," he said.

(Sorry, but I can't get the italics out of the rest of this post)

My question: Isn't the suspect "Win" also known as Wai Phyo?

Did the Telegraph reporter actually speak to Win after the murders, I wonder?

Does anyone know for sure where Win was working? Was he a fire juggler at the AC bar? It is known that Zaw and Maung Maung were working at the AC Two bar and they were both pictured in the early DNA testing line-up but information on Win has been very sketchy and misleading. Another thing that is puzzling me is the report that the one who was arrested in Surat Thani had recently dyed his hair from blond to black. Now none of the three Burmese pictured on the motorbike on the night of the murders appears to have "blond" hair but .... I have seen an old photo of Win where he has reddish-brown highlights in his hair (like so many Asian lads trying to look cool). It's really hard to know what is misinformation in the reporting on this case and what is the truth.

This post sums the whole thing up. " I never saw them in the bar" The only time I saw them was on the beach and their faces were covered with towels"

Does anyone else see the problem with that statement ?

And are you aware 1+1 = 178

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 01 Jan 2015 - 08:05, said:

Note the crease in the belt, it appears to be the same on both sets which would seem to say these are the same shorts

Other posters have suggested that the crease in the belt in the left-hand photo of the "blue" shorts is actually a mobile phone. I thought it was a crease/bend in the end of the belt but the photo is not close-up enough to be sure. I wish we had a better photo of the shorts on the beach.

[AleG]

You're vague as usual, and adding nothing to the discussion, except blanket denials slopped on every sort of well-reasoned contributions. You and the other denialists can't add specifics or details to the discussion, so you digress to defensive tactics while alluding, once in awhile to the seriousness of defamation of character suits. Defamation suits are what people like Thaksin use to try and shut up people who seek to speak the truth.

You want facts? Here are some facts put forth by Thai officialdom:

>>> "A Thai person couldn't have done this"

>>> "attractive farang women should be careful when wearing bikinis..."

>>> "The hoe was the weapon used to kill David"

>>> "The wounds on David were from the sharp end of the hoe"

>>> "We found Hannah's stolen phone behind the Burmeses' dwelling."

>>> "The two Burmese saw the two farang having sex, which threw them in to a killing and raping rage."

>>> "There are no scapegoats in this case"

>>> "If the DNA matches, then the Burmese must be the murderers and the rapists."

AleG, you can believe 'em all, if you choose.

And just like that you slither away; when caught talking BS, peddle some other BS as a smoke screen.

True to form, you're vague, rude, and have nada to add the discussion. You can't even refute any of my allegations, except with vague denials or puerile name-calling. One question: do you agree with RTP that David was killed by the hoe? yes or no?

Rude vague and puerile like saying?: "AleG's assertion is as solid as a piece of tissue in a toilet bowl."

I'm not going to waste time with your allegations, as soon as I'd be over with them you'll make up some others, and as soon as I'd be done with those you'll probably recycle the first batch. That is to say, you'll do the same thing you've been doing since the beginning. Making things up is easy, the hard thing is finding the actual facts, I think that is why you go the easy way; that and finding out the actual facts may not mesh with your pet theories, so lets better not go there, yes?

As for your question, show me first that is the scenario the prosecution is presenting at the trial.

[BritTim]

What I really wanted to draw posters' attention to was this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111532/Thai-island-murder-investigation-hits-a-wall-of-silence.html

I noticed something curious in this article.

Wailwinphyo, a 21-year-old migrant from Burma who works as a fire juggler at the bar, said there were dozens of drinkers there for his Sunday night performance.

He, too, claimed to have no memory of seeing the couple at the bar and says he saw them for the first time the following morning on the beach. By that time they were dead.

"I saw two bodies but we didn't see their faces – they were covered with towels," he said.

(Sorry, but I can't get the italics out of the rest of this post)

My question: Isn't the suspect "Win" also known as Wai Phyo?

Did the Telegraph reporter actually speak to Win after the murders, I wonder?

Does anyone know for sure where Win was working? Was he a fire juggler at the AC bar? It is known that Zaw and Maung Maung were working at the AC Two bar and they were both pictured in the early DNA testing line-up but information on Win has been very sketchy and misleading. Another thing that is puzzling me is the report that the one who was arrested in Surat Thani had recently dyed his hair from blond to black. Now none of the three Burmese pictured on the motorbike on the night of the murders appears to have "blond" hair but .... I have seen an old photo of Win where he has reddish-brown highlights in his hair (like so many Asian lads trying to look cool). It's really hard to know what is misinformation in the reporting on this case and what is the truth.

Some good questions. I doubt Wailwinpiyo and Win are the same person, but

It's really hard to know what is misinformation in the reporting on this case and what is the truth.

Isn't that the truth!

[catsanddogs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

A different, parallel tack.

Was out standing in a field this morning thinking about this and it seems the change of focus came about when Gen Panya was replaced.

He had already arrested Mon and was looking for the son after saying there was enough evidence to convict them.

It would seem he was replaced because he was looking in the wrong, right, place (depending on point of view) for as soon as he was replaced they were no longer suspects, so questions :

Who ordered Gen Panya to be replaced ?

Has that person got any connections with Koh Tau ?

Was there any coercion, intimidation, bribery involved in the replacement ?

If there was bribery is there any way to find and follow a money trail ?

Has the person who ordered the transfer or any of their family made any extraordinary purchases since the replacement ?

Have any of the other police involved or their families made any extraordinary purchases since the investigation began ?

Possibly showing that money changed hands could indicate a cover up which would be of advantage to the defense.

Finally, could the defense call Gen Panya as a witness to explain why he considered Mon and the son to be the guilty parties rather than the 2 Burmese ?

His promotion, and replacement, was approved and scheduled since before the murders.

We've come to expect such flaccid reasoning from those who are shielding the Headman's people. And this item has been addressed already, but I'll repeat: If a top brass is just starting an investigation, he's not going to pulled from the job, all of a sudden, by higher ups, unless there's a compelling reason to do so. The main reason: He was barking up the wrong tree (accumulating evidence which implicated the real suspects). A secondary reason: the taxi driver who came forth claiming he was offered Bt.300k to snitch, and also claiming police beat him to comply. When the replacement showed up, all the evidence against the Headman's people was trashed, and the frame-up against the B3 was implemented. Since then, no evidence whatsoever has come forth from Thai officialdom which points to the Headman's people. AleG's assertion is as solid as a piece of tissue in a toilet bowl.

You are speculating, as usual, making things up as you go. How about you try for once to find the facts instead?

God's sake man! What do you think folks on here have been trying to do for the past 14 weeks? No thanks to you though.

[loonodingle]

Sean and mon at a press conference.

Mon:'he did it. We washed the

blood from him. '?

Sean:he did it.'he had a fight

with her in a bar, I have

the picture'?

Sean/mon: they did it,we saw

them at the beach

playing guitar.?

Hi GC,

where did u get this piece from.

[StealthEnergiser]

some info from a certain Facebook page on DNA

DNA evidence is key to the conviction of suspects. However, there is possibility that DNA evidence can be switched and not reliable if DNA collection process is handled wrongly

Edited January 2, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[greenchair]

Thai island murder investigation hits a wall of silence With locals unwilling to talk on an island with a powerful hidden underworld, fears grow that the truth behind the brutal murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge may never be heard

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111532/Thai-island-murder-investigation-hits-a-wall-of-silence.html

Well that is an interesting article. There were 2 stories going around. 1. D and h never left the bar together. 2. D and left the bar together. Both true. They all left choppers bar together and went to ac bar. Then left ac bar separately as they were not seen together after that.

I thought that H was last seen at 2:58 but this article says

She was last seen at 12.07.

Does anybody have a picture with time 2:58 of H last seen. ??

[loonodingle]

Thai island murder investigation hits a wall of silence With locals unwilling to talk on an island with a powerful hidden underworld, fears grow that the truth behind the brutal murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge may never be heard

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111532/Thai-island-murder-investigation-hits-a-wall-of-silence.html

Well that is an interesting article. There were 2 stories going around. 1. D and h never left the bar together. 2. D and left the bar together. Both true. They all left choppers bar together and went to ac bar. Then left ac bar separately as they were not seen together after that.

I thought that H was last seen at 2:58 but this article says

She was last seen at 12.07.

Does anybody have a picture with time 2:58 of H last seen. ??

David left his room to go and get cigarettes and met with Hannah in the AC where she was having some problem there. She left with David. She had a room in the same block along the beach.

[greenchair]

Thai island murder investigation hits a wall of silence With locals unwilling to talk on an island with a powerful hidden underworld, fears grow that the truth behind the brutal murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge may never be heard

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111532/Thai-island-murder-investigation-hits-a-wall-of-silence.html

Well that is an interesting article. There were 2 stories going around. 1. D and h never left the bar together. 2. D and left the bar together. Both true. They all left choppers bar together and went to ac bar. Then left ac bar separately as they were not seen together after that.

I thought that H was last seen at 2:58 but this article says

She was last seen at 12.07.

Does anybody have a picture with time 2:58 of H last seen. ??

David left his room to go and get cigarettes and met with Hannah in the AC where she was having some problem there. She left with David. She had a room in the same block along the beach.

It doesn't say that. It says he was walking back towards ac bar. Doesn't show he went there. 1:56

It says they don't know if D and H met up. In that it says she was last seen shopping at 12.07 . Everybody had already left the bar.

[boomerangutang]

For post #2408 above, what's source?

As for your question ("do you agree with RTP that David was killed by the hoe? yes or no?"), show me first that is the scenario the prosecution is presenting at the trial.

Why am I not surprised you can't answer the question? The prosecution and RTP, has shown in the reenactment that the hoe was used to kill David (I agree, the blunt end may have been used to smash his head), but the RTP has made no explanation of the shallow push-blade cuts to his neck and other parts of his upper body. By inference and by demonstration, the RTP (and therefore the prosecution) can't explain the blade wounds in a reasonable way. Indeed, they don't even acknowledge they're inflicted by a sharp blade.

AleG can't address it either, in any detail, because he's fixated on discounting anything which counters the official nonsense emitted by Thai officials. I'm just showing that bit of evidence as one, of dozens, of things which Thai officialdom is WRONG about. I find no glee in pointing out how wrong and inept Thai officials are. However, such things need to be showcased, in order to get closer to the truth of what happened that night - toward nailing the real murderers and rapists. Everything Thai officials have said and done since the replacement head cop was instated by Bkk, has pointed at framing the B2, and shielding people connected to the Headman. Few people, who follow this case, believe otherwise. Even most Thai officials don't believe their own contrived scenario, but they're duty-bound to back it, unless they want to be out of a job, or worse.

[metisdead]

Once again:

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

These restrictions are put in place by the above publications, not Thaivisa.com

In rare cases, forum Administrators or the news team may use these sources under special permission.

Posts have been removed or edited as per above.

[BritTim]

Well that is an interesting article. There were 2 stories going around. 1. D and h never left the bar together. 2. D and left the bar together. Both true. They all left choppers bar together and went to ac bar. Then left ac bar separately as they were not seen together after that.

I thought that H was last seen at 2:58 but this article says

She was last seen at 12.07.

Does anybody have a picture with time 2:58 of H last seen. ??

David left his room to go and get cigarettes and met with Hannah in the AC where she was having some problem there. She left with David. She had a room in the same block along the beach.

I have seen this version of events, but never backed up with a reliable source. It seems logical. Can you help with one?

If true, why is there no CCTV of them during and after leaving? Yes, may have been destroyed, but still. (The originally reported CCTV sighting of them leaving AC Bar together was later stated to be mistaken identity. Can we trust that retraction also?)

[BritTim]

True to form, you're vague, rude, and have nada to add the discussion. You can't even refute any of my allegations, except with vague denials or puerile name-calling. One question: do you agree with RTP that David was killed by the hoe? yes or no?

Rude vague and puerile like saying?: "AleG's assertion is as solid as a piece of tissue in a toilet bowl."

I'm not going to waste time with your allegations, as soon as I'd be over with them you'll make up some others, and as soon as I'd be done with those you'll probably recycle the first batch. That is to say, you'll do the same thing you've been doing since the beginning. Making things up is easy, the hard thing is finding the actual facts, I think that is why you go the easy way; that and finding out the actual facts may not mesh with your pet theories, so lets better not go there, yes?

As for your question, show me first that is the scenario the prosecution is presenting at the trial.

As for your question, show me first that is the scenario the prosecution is presenting at the trial.

In fairness AleG, that is a reasonable assumption, unless the prosecution is intending to ignore the "perfect investigation" carried out by the police. It is precisely what the police have consistently said before and after the reconstruction (give or take occasional suggestions of a bottle and/or wooden club, neither of which looks compatible with David's wounds, and neither of which has been found).

[JLCrab]

For post #2408 above, what's source?

As for your question ("do you agree with RTP that David was killed by the hoe? yes or no?"), show me first that is the scenario the prosecution is presenting at the trial.

Why am I not surprised you can't answer the question? The prosecution and RTP, has shown in the reenactment that the hoe was used to kill David (I agree, the blunt end may have been used to smash his head), but the RTP has made no explanation of the shallow push-blade cuts to his neck and other parts of his upper body. By inference and by demonstration, the RTP (and therefore the prosecution) can't explain the blade wounds in a reasonable way. Indeed, they don't even acknowledge they're inflicted by a sharp blade.

AleG can't address it either, in any detail, because he's fixated on discounting anything which counters the official nonsense emitted by Thai officials. I'm just showing that bit of evidence as one, of dozens, of things which Thai officialdom is WRONG about. I find no glee in pointing out how wrong and inept Thai officials are. However, such things need to be showcased, in order to get closer to the truth of what happened that night - toward nailing the real murderers and rapists. Everything Thai officials have said and done since the replacement head cop was instated by Bkk, has pointed at framing the B2, and shielding people connected to the Headman. Few people, who follow this case, believe otherwise. Even most Thai officials don't believe their own contrived scenario, but they're duty-bound to back it, unless they want to be out of a job, or worse.

I find no glee in pointing out how wrong and inept Thai officials are. Nonsense -- you're lovin' every minute of it.

[boomerangutang]

For post #2408 above, what's source?

As for your question ("do you agree with RTP that David was killed by the hoe? yes or no?"), show me first that is the scenario the prosecution is presenting at the trial.

Why am I not surprised you can't answer the question? The prosecution and RTP, has shown in the reenactment that the hoe was used to kill David (I agree, the blunt end may have been used to smash his head), but the RTP has made no explanation of the shallow push-blade cuts to his neck and other parts of his upper body. By inference and by demonstration, the RTP (and therefore the prosecution) can't explain the blade wounds in a reasonable way. Indeed, they don't even acknowledge they're inflicted by a sharp blade.

AleG can't address it either, in any detail, because he's fixated on discounting anything which counters the official nonsense emitted by Thai officials. I'm just showing that bit of evidence as one, of dozens, of things which Thai officialdom is WRONG about. I find no glee in pointing out how wrong and inept Thai officials are. However, such things need to be showcased, in order to get closer to the truth of what happened that night - toward nailing the real murderers and rapists. Everything Thai officials have said and done since the replacement head cop was instated by Bkk, has pointed at framing the B2, and shielding people connected to the Headman. Few people, who follow this case, believe otherwise. Even most Thai officials don't believe their own contrived scenario, but they're duty-bound to back it, unless they want to be out of a job, or worse.

I find no glee in pointing out how wrong and inept Thai officials are. Nonsense -- you're lovin' every minute of it.

If I was jdinasia, I'd respond by saying "You're a conspiracy theorist! Show me a published proof of that from a reputable news source."

If I was AleG, I'd respond with "We're only looking at verifiable facts. Show me the survey which proves that's true!"

If I was JohnThailandJohn, I might say, "It's an assertion on social media, so it must be a conspiracy theory!"

But I'm none of those people, so I just sit back and grin, and think, 'so that's what you surmise. Hmmm. Interesting.' Happy New Year.

[greenchair]

Well that is an interesting article. There were 2 stories going around. 1. D and h never left the bar together. 2. D and left the bar together. Both true. They all left choppers bar together and went to ac bar. Then left ac bar separately as they were not seen together after that.I thought that H was last seen at 2:58 but this article says

She was last seen at 12.07.

Does anybody have a picture with time 2:58 of H last seen. ??

David left his room to go and get cigarettes and met with Hannah in the AC where she was having some problem there. She left with David. She had a room in the same block along the beach.

I have seen this version of events, but never backed up with a reliable source. It seems logical. Can you help with one?

If true, why is there no CCTV of them during and after leaving? Yes, may have been destroyed, but still. (The originally reported CCTV sighting of them leaving AC Bar together was later stated to be mistaken identity. Can we trust that retraction also?)

Agree britTim. I think loony is talking about the mistaken foreigner with thai. They never left ac bar together. All footage shows them apart. I am not sure if the pic of David at 1:27 is after they left ac bar

[greenchair]

Sean and mon at a press conference.

Mon:'he did it. We washed the

blood from him. '?

Sean:he did it.'he had a fight

with her in a bar, I have

the picture'?

Sean/mon: they did it,we saw

them at the beach

playing guitar.?

Hi GC,

where did u get this piece from.

Snicker. ? I made it up. I was just wondering what all the suspects would say if they were all in a room together. With a judge saying.

Who did it? ???

[JLCrab]

You're a published author on the trail of a story -- you've already offered on here to co-write a book with one of the UK investigators -- maybe you're the next Woodward & Bernstein doggedly pursuing 'the 'truth' against all odds put in your way by the entrenched establishment. Or as per Supertramp:

Now they're planning the crime of the century

Well what will it be?

Read all about their schemes and adventuring

It's well worth a fee

[boomerangutang]

You're a published author on the trail of a story -- you've already offered on here to co-write a book with one of the UK investigators -- maybe you're the next Woodward & Bernstein doggedly pursuing 'the 'truth' against all odds put in your way by the entrenched establishment. Or as per Supertramp:

Now they're planning the crime of the century

Well what will it be?

Read all about their schemes and adventuring

It's well worth a fee

It's tricky calling it the crime of the century' when the century is only 14% passed by (yes, I know it's now 2015, but the century won't be 15% gone, until the end of this year). I thought of the idea (or trying to write a chronicle of the crime), but am getting lazier in my 60's. Greenchair of one of the others probably has more energy to do something like that. Plus, I'm somewhat emotional about it all. I might go off on fuming tangents, leaving smoke trails like the Challenger Space Shuttle's last lift-off.

[JLCrab]

You're a published author on the trail of a story -- you've already offered on here to co-write a book with one of the UK investigators -- maybe you're the next Woodward & Bernstein doggedly pursuing 'the 'truth' against all odds put in your way by the entrenched establishment. Or as per Supertramp:

Now they're planning the crime of the century

Well what will it be?

Read all about their schemes and adventuring

It's well worth a fee

It's tricky calling it the crime of the century' when the century is only 14% passed by (yes, I know it's now 2015, but the century won't be 15% gone, until the end of this year). I thought of the idea (or trying to write a chronicle of the crime), but am getting lazier in my 60's. Greenchair of one of the others probably has more energy to do something like that. Plus, I'm somewhat emotional about it all. I might go off on fuming tangents, leaving smoke trails like the Challenger Space Shuttle's last lift-off.

The Charles Lindbergh baby kidnapping/murder occurred in 1932 but that didn't stop them from calling it 'The Crime f the Century' back then. But maybe your biggest hang-up might be that everything you have written here on ThaiVisa.com is copyright ThaiVisa.com so you could not use anything written here without dispensation from George and the Gang.

Edited January 2, 2015 by JLCrab

[Chetzee]

loonodingle, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:09, said:loonodingle, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:09, said:loonodingle, on 01 Jan 2015 - 16:09, said:

Thai island murder investigation hits a wall of silence With locals unwilling to talk on an island with a powerful hidden underworld, fears grow that the truth behind the brutal murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge may never be heard

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111532/Thai-island-murder-investigation-hits-a-wall-of-silence.html

I noticed something curious in this article.

Wailwinphyo, a 21-year-old migrant from Burma who works as a fire juggler at the bar, said there were dozens of drinkers there for his Sunday night performance.

and

He, too, claimed to have no memory of seeing the couple at the bar and says he saw them for the first time the following morning on the beach. By that time they were dead.

"I saw two bodies but we didn't see their faces – they were covered with towels," he said.

Isn't the suspect "Win" also known as Wai Phyo? He was also referred to as Cho in some reports. BTW it was Cho, or Win, who was arrested in Surat Thani after fleeing the island.

EDIT: my last sentences/observations above are not supposed to be in italics but I cannot remove it for some reason.

now here's thing ! 21 yo Burmese migrant first saw the couple dead on the beach , with their faces covered . So what time was that , that he was allowed access to the crime scene ? After all it is established that the police or rescue teams covered hannahs face with the green towel after loosely securing the area .And after the cop took those grim pictures ). Just seems a bit odd .

And then cast your minds back to the early day one footage of Mon at the crime scene . He is seen walking over to the assembled police on the beach , chating with the man in charge who beckons him over , then Mon starts pointing things out to him .

So we know Mon knew about the bodies very early on , well before the police arrived . Begs the question who else was there early on with him .Fire juggling staff from the AC bar ?