Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[JLCrab]

... or the young lady does not want to talk about it

... or the young ladies are being more careful after the recent news and travel advisories

... or a stepped up police presence is temporarily inhibiting them trying it

... or ???

That's right -- they've learned their lesson.

The godfather who had to pay to get them out of the mess may well have told them to cool it. The police and possible witnesses might not worry them, but he would.

It's also possible that there have been no further incidents because the two that pulled off the last one are sitting in jail but such is not the politically correct consideration on here.

Edited January 6, 2015 by JLCrab

[boomerangutang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Well as long as you don't believe it's the truth that is all that matters. You are, after all, the expert detective here!

We're all detectives of sorts. Just like we're all searching around for clues - to nail the real criminals - who (if you seriously doubt the B2 are the perps) ....are still walking around, looking for other young pretty blond chicks to seduce with date-rape drugs. If the next chick doesn't comply (and if she says or does something offensive) well, tough tamales, ....got to bash her head to smithereens. It's a tough response, but hey, she offended a Thai guy.

...And if no pretty young blond chick is seduced with a date-rape drug, it just means that the real perps are being more cautious these days. Huh?

We don't know. If there's are sharks in a lake, who already attacked some swimmers, then when is it safe to go back in the lake?

[loonodingle]

Well as long as you don't believe it's the truth that is all that matters. You are, after all, the expert detective here!

We're all detectives of sorts. Just like we're all searching around for clues - to nail the real criminals - who (if you seriously doubt the B2 are the perps) ....are still walking around, looking for other young pretty blond chicks to seduce with date-rape drugs. If the next chick doesn't comply (and if she says or does something offensive) well, tough tamales, ....got to bash her head to smithereens. It's a tough response, but hey, she offended a Thai guy.

...And if no pretty young blond chick is seduced with a date-rape drug, it just means that the real perps are being more cautious these days. Huh?

... or the young lady does not want to talk about it

... or the young ladies are being more careful after the recent news and travel advisories

... or a stepped up police presence is temporarily inhibiting them trying it

... or ???

Nomsod is a Monk???

[loonodingle]

Sven Hutchinson, I presume.

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/2014/10/15/%e2%99%a6-it-was-a-stab-wound-%e2%99%a6-2/

Well that's wrong already. Since Sean said he knew on the 16th not a few days later. Seems everyone knew who it was by Monday noon except sven and Sean. I think we need a timeline for sven ⏳

I, for one, do not accept that "everyone knew by Monday noon". I am a bit of a news freak, but I did not know. Those on the island will have talked about nothing else except the murders, but the gossip will not have included names.

Looking for a pic of the 15th vigil.the one on the 16th had a picture of the two. I wonder if the shrine wad created on the 15th. You are telling me Sean and sven did not know about the vigil Monday night. Mon, Headman everyone knew except. Sean and sven. Who probably were sleeping throughout Monday when all this was going on.

Of course Sean and Sven knew two young people had been murdered. They would definitely know that it was a man and a woman, with media suggestions that they were a couple. Why would Sean have immediately jumped to the conclusion that the guy was his mate David who was visiting with his male friends? The gossip would not have included names because most (even those taking photos of the crime scene) would not have known them, and also because names are pretty meaningless unless you know the victims.

It is entirely credible that Sean only knew the first time he visited news sites after the police announced the names. His initial tFacebook post was entirely consistent with this (anyway most likely) hypothesis. Note that the name "Hannah Witheridge" did not seem to have made him as emotional.

Solely presumptions Britim. Unfortunately.

I

[JLCrab]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

[BritTim]

... or the young lady does not want to talk about it

... or the young ladies are being more careful after the recent news and travel advisories

... or a stepped up police presence is temporarily inhibiting them trying it

... or ???

That's right -- they've learned their lesson.

The godfather who had to pay to get them out of the mess may well have told them to cool it. The police and possible witnesses might not worry them, but he would.

It's also possible that there have been no further incidents because the two that pulled off the last one are sitting in jail but such is not the politically correct consideration on here.

If you are completely ignorant of the circumstances surrounding the case, and generally pretty naive about the Thai police and justice system, then you would be inclined to consider that likely.

I am not one to start spouting nonsensical conspiracy theories. There has been a lot of crazy stuff obscuring the real evidence that the Burmese are being set up. There has also been some farcically bad reporting, as well as deliberate misinformation. However, their is plenty to show a cover up is in progress. If you are a critical thinker, and actually dig into the discrepancies in the case, I think you would change your mind about who is likely guilty.

If you really want to know, send me a PM, and I shall give you material you can digest in one day that I think will open your mind.

[greenchair]

Well as long as you don't believe it's the truth that is all that matters. You are, after all, the expert detective here!

We're all detectives of sorts. Just like we're all searching around for clues - to nail the real criminals - who (if you seriously doubt the B2 are the perps) ....are still walking around, looking for other young pretty blond chicks to seduce with date-rape drugs. If the next chick doesn't comply (and if she says or does something offensive) well, tough tamales, ....got to bash her head to smithereens. It's a tough response, but hey, she offended a Thai guy.

...And if no pretty young blond chick is seduced with a date-rape drug, it just means that the real perps are being more cautious these days. Huh?

... or the young lady does not want to talk about it

... or the young ladies are being more careful after the recent news and travel advisories

... or a stepped up police presence is temporarily inhibiting them trying it

... or ???

Nomsod is a Monk???

Get with the programme looy.

That was last week's news.

Oh god. Let's not go off on a nomsod tangent. ???

[thailandchilli]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

I think you are wrong, I would say the majority of posters on here want a fair trial for the B2, they do not rule out that they could be guilty but at the same time do not rule out that others may be involved or are the real killers, however if you want to always bring up the minority who say they are 100% innocent then thats your choice.

The concern here is of a coverup

Edited January 6, 2015 by thailandchilli

[loonodingle]

Well as long as you don't believe it's the truth that is all that matters. You are, after all, the expert detective here!

We're all detectives of sorts. Just like we're all searching around for clues - to nail the real criminals - who (if you seriously doubt the B2 are the perps) ....are still walking around, looking for other young pretty blond chicks to seduce with date-rape drugs. If the next chick doesn't comply (and if she says or does something offensive) well, tough tamales, ....got to bash her head to smithereens. It's a tough response, but hey, she offended a Thai guy.

...And if no pretty young blond chick is seduced with a date-rape drug, it just means that the real perps are being more cautious these days. Huh?

... or the young lady does not want to talk about it

... or the young ladies are being more careful after the recent news and travel advisories

... or a stepped up police presence is temporarily inhibiting them trying it

... or ???

Nomsod is a Monk???

Get with the programme looy.

That was last week's news.

Oh god. Let's not go off on a nomsod tangent. ???

Sorry GC. Back to sleep then. Having a bit off a ruff night after eating some sprouts. Or Norfolk icecream...

[BritTim]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

In November, he was new to the case, had scarcely met his clients, and had had no time to evaluate the evidence. How could he be sure until he had investigated?

[JLCrab]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

In November, he was new to the case, had scarcely met his clients, and had had no time to evaluate the evidence. How could he be sure until he had investigated?

He's an experienced lawyer. That's what he said.

[JLCrab]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

I think you are wrong, I would say the majority of posters on here want a fair trial for the B2, they do not rule out that they could be guilty but at the same time do not rule out that others may be involved or are the real killers, however if you want to always bring up the minority who say they are 100% innocent then thats your choice.

The concern here is of a coverup

And everything I read of the details of the convoluted cover-up makes me think it has been done with precision and in secrecy that would exceed Kissinger's negotiations with the Chinese Communists .. and I just don't think they are that smart.

[BritTim]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

In November, he was new to the case, had scarcely met his clients, and had had no time to evaluate the evidence. How could he be sure until he had investigated?

He's an experienced lawyer. That's what he said.

So, it is your belief that an experienced lawyer knows immediately whether his client is guilty before he even talks tot hem or familiarizes himself with the evidence in the case.

If that is so, why bother with trials. The judges are experienced lawyers who can tell immediately whether the defendants are guilty.

(OK, I am exaggerating, but your successful trolling is driving me to it ... sorry mods)

[JLCrab]

When an experienced attorney speaks for the record especially to an established UK newspaper, he chooses his words carefully. That is my belief.

[thailandchilli]

When an experienced attorney speaks for the record especially to an established UK newspaper, he chooses his words carefully. That is my belief.

Couldn't agree more

[tattoodrob]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

I think you are wrong, I would say the majority of posters on here want a fair trial for the B2, they do not rule out that they could be guilty but at the same time do not rule out that others may be involved or are the real killers, however if you want to always bring up the minority who say they are 100% innocent then thats your choice.

The concern here is of a coverup

And everything I read of the details of the convoluted cover-up makes me think it has been done with precision and in secrecy that would exceed Kissinger's negotiations with the Chinese Communists .. and I just don't think they are that smart.

quote]

I don't really get why you think it is too hard or that they have to be very smart to do a cover up,there is no one checking what they have done so if you are accountable to no one but yourselves then I would say is quite easy.Brits were not allowed to do much probably due to the reason they might get found out otherwise why not let them do more than observe which turns out they were just told some points of the so called investigation,they are smart enough to not let any outsiders do more than that even the UK government and people very concerned as to the investigation.

If you focusing on the DNA then it is paperwork/computer records just swapped and not the actual samples so that's easy enough and if you think it takes hundreds of people involved then I don't think so,a few top guys and all underneath will tow the line,no police will come out and say any different to what the boss tells them and all the evidence we know about so far has been very suspicious as already discussed,the odds would say it's more likely a cover up than it is a great and conclusive investigation,of course trial will bring up more when eventually happens but I will be surprised if they have overwhelming real evidence,they already tried to pay off one pretend witness that is known about and not hard I would think to pay others that will do it,I'm more surprised that the guy refused as was under pressure for sure and still got a few smacks for not agreeing.

[JLCrab]

As you said, you don't really get why.

[catsanddogs]

Thailand: Koh Tao back in spotlight after man found hanged

http://asiancorrespondent.com/129570/thailand-koh-tao-frenchman-hanged/

[boomerangutang]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

Speaking for myself, I never said 100% about any aspect of this case. From what I've seen of other posts, I don't think anyone else has said "100% not guilty" Would you care to back that up?

I think the B2 are not guilty, and have posted several times; that if the evidence proves guilt, I'll go along with that. However, neither of us are the judge, and it's he who must be convinced. If the judge is impartial, great, but it seems like a stretch, given that he's paid by the same people who pay the prosecutors and police: the taxpayers. And the judge knows who holds political power in his country, and he knows who those military politicians all want a guilty verdict for non-Thais - just as much as they want a complete hands-off policy on the Headman's people.

You'll notice the Thai powers-that-be won't give any credence or consideration to any bits of evidence which might point at the Headman's people as perpetrators. As soon as the replacement head cop was instated, early in the investigation, several things happened right away:

>>>> Those who were prime suspects weren't even suspects. Boom. Right away, in a flash.

>>>> Officials announced they would look again at Burmese people, and within hours, the 3 Burmese were taken and (allegedly) tortured/forced to sign papers they couldn't read, with no legal representation.

>>>> Since that key moment (changing the head cop) no mention by officialdom of the KT video, nor speedboat operators, nor phone records/history, nor the mystery shorts on the beach, nor the scenario in the bars prior to the crime that night. ......the list goes on.

[jimmybkk]

It's real simple to me: There are numerous posters on here who have expressed the opinion that the 2 arrested are 100% not guilty. Their lead counsel however told the UK Guardian in November 2014 that, while he believes the 2 to be innocent, that no one can say with 100% accuracy that they are in fact not guilty.

So to me your scare mongering is just that.

I think you are wrong, I would say the majority of posters on here want a fair trial for the B2, they do not rule out that they could be guilty but at the same time do not rule out that others may be involved or are the real killers, however if you want to always bring up the minority who say they are 100% innocent then thats your choice.

The concern here is of a coverup

And everything I read of the details of the convoluted cover-up makes me think it has been done with precision and in secrecy that would exceed Kissinger's negotiations with the Chinese Communists .. and I just don't think they are that smart.

I disagree. This whole case revolves around the DNA evidence. If there was no match the RTP would still be looking for the perpetrators. Once there was a match the "investigation" ceased.

From the outset it was decided that it would be best if collection of all the forensic evidence was kept "in house". So many question marks over this case would be removed if Khunying Pornthip and her team had been able to take responsibility for this role.

If you have ever seen a sporting event where a relatively crucial decision is made by the toss of a coin (which team will kick first, which end a team chooses to play from etc.) you will have noticed that the typical procedure is that the referee will toss the coin high into the air, a pre-determined team captain will call either heads or tails and all those involved (the team captains and the referees) will all stand back to allow the coin to land on the ground in plain view of everyone so their can be no doubt as to whether it's a head or a tail. They stage the coin toss like this because it is transparent and removes almost all possibilities of foul play.

What they do not do, and for very good reasons, is allow the home team (who have called heads for example) to crowd around the coin as it lands so that neither the referees nor the opposing team captains can see it and then accept the result as final and fair when the home team captain says "Yeah, it was a head..." and picks up the coin to return it to the referee whilst his teammates all nod in agreement, which is basically what happened in this case.

Once any DNA samples were collected and analyzed I would guess that a report, a card, a photograph of the microscope slide, or whatever is standard would be bagged, sealed and labelled "Semen Sample 1. Victim A" with the signature of someone in authority. The same for "Semen Sample 2. Victim A". I would hope that there are very, very few people that would have the right to access those evidence bags once they have been signed & sealed (but maybe you know otherwise), and hopefully even less people that have the authority to open them, so ultimately the number of people required to be complicit in the cover-up would be the few that had the authority to rip open an evidence bag, remove the contents and replace with contents that matched the first round DNA test of the accused, then seal and sign the bag. Then they just have to wait until technicians start running analysis on the second round of test samples before one shouts "Bingo!"...

So in response to your suggestion that a cover-up would have required way too much precision and secrecy for it to be a credible scenario.... Nah, it would've been a cinch. No different to confirming that he coin toss result was heads.

And besides, based on the expertise (or lack of) that was shown with the handling of the crime scene, I doubt whether the DNA evidence that arrived at the lab was even usable.

[jimmybkk]

When an experienced attorney speaks for the record especially to an established UK newspaper, he chooses his words carefully. That is my belief.

Given that conviction rates for cases in the Court of First Instance are believed to be around 97%-98% (no firm figures available due to restrictions on the reporting of cases), unless he is planning on retiring after this one it probably makes sense to leave the door ajar rather than be proved 100% wrong, wouldn't you say?

[boomerangutang]

And everything I read of the details of the convoluted cover-up makes me think it has been done with precision and in secrecy that would exceed Kissinger's negotiations with the Chinese Communists .. and I just don't think they are that smart.

You're saying two different things in the above sentence. The cover-up by Thai officials has been botched - in the view of those of us who can see clearly.

I don't think Kissinger was so smart, either. One example: 2 weeks before the Berlin Wall came down, Kissinger was being interviewed on events around the Iron Curtain, which he is supposedly an expert. He was getting $600/hour as a consultant at that time. When the interviewer asked him if it was possible the Wall might come down, Kissinger snorted, "No, that is not possible. Some policy changes may take place, but the Berlin Wall will stay up for a very long time."

[JLCrab]

Kissinger pulled off the China deal. That was smart enough and that really happened. One possible reason why the KT deal has proceeded so well -- as you are fond of possible reasons elsewhere -- is that it didn't happen

[Willy Eckerslike]

Thailand: Koh Tao back in spotlight after man found hanged

http://asiancorrespondent.com/129570/thailand-koh-tao-frenchman-hanged/

There is an update to the French mans story here,

BANGKOK: -- A criminologist has voiced his support for calls by media and relatives of a victim of suspected suicide by the police and forensic experts to look for more evidences to determine the exact cause of the death the victim.

http://www.thaivisa....25#entry8900725

Edited January 6, 2015 by Willy Eckerslike

[BritTim]

Thailand: Koh Tao back in spotlight after man found hanged

http://asiancorrespondent.com/129570/thailand-koh-tao-frenchman-hanged/

Not all journalism in Thailand is bad These guys are really well informed. They may be swayed by prior experiences to assume the worst, but their stuff is well argued and contains few, if any, factual errors. Up to the best international standards.

[tattoodrob]

Kissinger pulled off the China deal. That was smart enough and that really happened. One possible reason why the KT deal has proceeded so well -- as you are fond of possible reasons elsewhere -- is that it didn't happen

You are correct ,it possibly did not happen ( we probably wont ever know either way)but certainly is not for the reasons you state! In my opinion you dont seem to realise how the Thai authorities and specifically the Police operate,it doesnt take many people to decide what all the others must do and say or not say really...also many police and Thais believe it is a cover up of some degree so they obviously think they are smart enough to do it.........i dont think smart is the correct word anyway but they certainly have the cunning to get away with it....lets not forget money is number 1 here and not Justice and Truth. I hope there is no cover up and that is enough real evidence to convict them if they are really the guilty party but the RTP havent started on the right foot unless you think they have done a great job and we(majority) have been duped into thinking they are bumbling idiots..........but really cmon think about it and be serious......no transparency,forced confessions,telling media that Mon and boy were guilty then quick change of mind,only one weapon being found when obvious was others,just 2 small boys defeating larger people,bribing the public to be a lying witness for them etc etc.........this is just some of the reasons of a smell of a cover up.... in my opinion ofcourse.

[JLCrab]

I maybe don't realize how the Thai authorities and police operate -- as I have been informed on these pages, I am easily duped.

[thailandchilli]

I maybe don't realize how the Thai authorities and police operate -- as I have been informed on these pages, I am easily duped.

But don't go away, you do bring value to the threads on occasions.

[tattoodrob]

I maybe don't realize how the Thai authorities and police operate -- as I have been informed on these pages, I am easily duped.

Dont worry as many are easily duped like you have been........you are not alone and thats how they like the "public" to be.

[Willy Eckerslike]

I maybe don't realize how the Thai authorities and police operate -- as I have been informed on these pages, I am easily duped.

Oh the irony...........Keep up the good work JL, I do like the movie and music references,