Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[ldiablo]

@kurnell. He's just jealous because you drive a Fortuner and he probably drives a honda click if he's lucky. The relevence Sviss Geez is that a Fortuner being an SUV would have a much large gas tank than say a small Toyota car so therefore would cost more to fill.

Edited December 8, 2014 by ldiablo

[peterb17]

Cost me 1300 to fill the Fortuner today. It wasn't empty, but way down. Have paid nearly 2k in the past.

What's the relevance of filling "the Fortuner" specifically, is that something different from other cars that requires differentiation?

Because the " Fortuner" is a thing of total beauty - created to inspire jealousy and awe to the beholder - more likely to run you off the road ( apart fom the white mini vans) than any other vehicle in Thailand

It runs on very special fuel.

[Tchooptip]

I filled up my fairly large car for 1740 today.

Prices are way down.

I filled up my small motorbike for 275 Baht instead of 200

[nithisa78]

Do the words greedy and Bahtism ring a bell?

do the words, 'you don't have a clue'. That must ring a bell. what are you doing to help? Sorry, you're just cry baby.

you throw rocks at all the working men and women that never took one satang. oh yes again. False wtiness is your aim and game.

-1 for you. think about this....next time you're interacting (because you need help) with good man or woman in law enforcement. The man or woman who will help ytou because helping people is what they do. They are subject to quick death or worse, pretty much everyday they do their community service. for all of us. We have an eye on you now.

what do you do? sell cars.

[The Observer]

You can rent a cute girl for $30 a night in America? I lived in California where the price was "slightly" higher

[UTH001]

Only 3 months a go, gasohol 95 was above 43 baht, now they're at 33+ that's 10 baht

down.... you do the math..

Fully agree, BUT: The price of diesel fuel has stayed around the 28.50 Baht range, from just below 30 Baht, so not really a big change there. And I wonder why that is, don't understand...

[Pib]

Only 3 months a go, gasohol 95 was above 43 baht, now they're at 33+ that's 10 baht

down.... you do the math..

Fully agree, BUT: The price of diesel fuel has stayed around the 28.50 Baht range, from just below 30 Baht, so not really a big change there. And I wonder why that is, don't understand...

Like been stated in several posts above...the govt is adjusting its fuel taxes/subsidizes....sometime they adjust them twice a week. You are probably use to western country fuel taxes where they are "set at a certain value" and takes an act of Congress/Parliament/Cabinet to change them and then the fuel prices float with the price of oil. Not so in Thailand were they do have a few flat taxes on fuels but they have adjustable taxes/subsidizes that the govt actively manage & frequently change.

So, in Thailand, the price of a barrel of oil is only half the picture in what the refined fuel prices will be...the other half is the every changing fuel taxes/subsidies to round out the final price.

[Pib]

Heck, when looking at fuel prices in Thailand compared to the rest of the world, no one should be really complaining. Per 1 Dec 14 price of "diesel" per liter in USD, here are some of the prices by a few selected countries per GlobalPetrolPrices.com....many more countries listed...just go to the weblink.

Thailand $0.89

USA $0.96

Japan $1.10

Australia $1.26

France $1.52

Germany $1.59

Greece $1.60

Sweden $1.80

Norway $1.92

UK $1.99

I think it easy to see taxes are keeping prices jacked up in European countries.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Pib

[stoli]

You need to throw away your old newspapers. I can not find any gas in the United States for less than $2.47 a gallon, and that is only in a handful of cities, in a handful of states.

[gmac]

Petrol prices for the year (earlier years also available)

http://www.pttplc.com/EN/Media-Center/Oil-Price/pages/Bangkok-Oil-Price.aspx

[Pib]

You need to throw away your old newspapers. I can not find any gas in the United States for less than $2.47 a gallon, and that is only in a handful of cities, in a handful of states.

You are confusing gallons with liters which above post was referenced to. One gallon of diesel is 3.78 liters. So, in my above post were it said $0.89 per liter that would equate to $3.36 per gallon of diesel. And also don't confuse gasoline with diesel...different prices on these two different fuels.

[stoli]

Everything in Thailand is overpriced compared with America.

Indices Difference Consumer Prices in Thailand are 39.26% lower than in United States

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Thailand are 43.21% lower than in United States

Rent Prices in Thailand are 51.90% lower than in United States

Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 63.62% lower than in United States

Groceries Prices in Thailand are 36.31% lower than in United States

Rent Per Month Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre US 1,026.82 $ TH 414.97 $ -59.59 %

Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre US 774.32 $ TH 220.69 $ -71.50 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre US 1,735.29 $ TH 1,131.83 $ -34.78 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre US 1,306.38 $ TH 561.94 $ -56.98 %

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Thailand

This is the problem with someone trying to develop a website to compare any city in the world versus any other city in the world. They never visit, they never price items, they select a formula that they think may be close, or not. I have seen similar sites stating they can tell you what a 3 bedroom home costs in each city in the US. Having worked in Real Estate for 12 years, this can not be done by any measure of accuracy. The numbers posted for Pattaya, or even Thailand for that matter, are totally wrong in every aspect. They haven't a clue on prices here, unless you live in a small village without running water. Certainly if you live here, you can walk around, look at prices here, and come to the same conclusion that this is hogwash.

[thailiketoo]

Everything in Thailand is overpriced compared with America.

Indices Difference Consumer Prices in Thailand are 39.26% lower than in United States

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Thailand are 43.21% lower than in United States

Rent Prices in Thailand are 51.90% lower than in United States

Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 63.62% lower than in United States

Groceries Prices in Thailand are 36.31% lower than in United States

Rent Per Month Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre US 1,026.82 $ TH 414.97 $ -59.59 %

Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre US 774.32 $ TH 220.69 $ -71.50 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre US 1,735.29 $ TH 1,131.83 $ -34.78 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre US 1,306.38 $ TH 561.94 $ -56.98 %

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Thailand

This is the problem with someone trying to develop a website to compare any city in the world versus any other city in the world. They never visit, they never price items, they select a formula that they think may be close, or not. I have seen similar sites stating they can tell you what a 3 bedroom home costs in each city in the US. Having worked in Real Estate for 12 years, this can not be done by any measure of accuracy. The numbers posted for Pattaya, or even Thailand for that matter, are totally wrong in every aspect. They haven't a clue on prices here, unless you live in a small village without running water. Certainly if you live here, you can walk around, look at prices here, and come to the same conclusion that this is hogwash.

I lived in the USA for 50 years and Thailand for 20 years. The numbers above are correct.

[carter1882]

Americans are always saying life is cheap here, aren't they?

[Tchooptip]

I filled up my fairly large car for 1740 today.

Prices are way down.

I filled up my small motorbike for 275 Baht instead of 200

I am ashamed ... I was not joking I meant 175 instead of 200.

[gemguy]

In the case of Thailand the prices of retail fuels are being artificially held high.

In other parts of the world you will see the price of fuels eventually come down as the price of oil comes down...that is in a supply and demand market that is not manipulated by the government.

The Oil industry and the prices of oil and the related prices of retail fuels is a subject matter that I personally love to read about all the time while I have learned a lot.

In the case of Thailand I can only surmise the prices are being kept high by the current government ( huge difference in various tax related revenues if they actually followed the downward trend ) while presently the profit margins are really good for the refiners and or the retail fuel out lets....far more so then when the price of crude oil was what it was 6 months ago.

Thailand imports most of its crude oil feedstock from Singapore and Indonesia and some from Vietnam and Brunei of course but mainly through the Singapore commodities exchange while oil brokered and sold through Singapore has also dropped in price relative to the crude oil prices in other areas of the world.

Meantime the price of retail fuel products in Thailand does not reflect the current downward price of oil....a little bit down but not what the price could or should be in a fair and competitive market place

There is only one valid answer and that has to be the military government is colluding with the refiners and the retail fuel sectors to keep the prices up while slowly bringing them down....but not anywhere near what the prices should be ....or could be..... relative to the price of the crude oil that they are currently buying.

And some people still like the current military government and eagerly continue to support them thinking and or believing the country will do well by them......

Cheers

Edited December 8, 2014 by gemguy

[Pib]

In the case of Thailand the prices of retail fuels are being artificially held high.

In other parts of the world you will see the price of fuels eventually come down as the price of oil comes down...that is in a supply and demand market that is not manipulated by the government.

The Oil industry and the prices of oil and the related prices of retail fuels is a subject matter that I personally love to read about all the time while I have learned a lot.

In the case of Thailand I can only surmise the prices are being kept high by the current government ( huge difference in various tax related revenues if they actual followed the downward trend ) while, presently the profit margins are really good for the refiners and or the retail fuel out lets....far more so then when the price of crude oil was what it was 6 months ago.

Thailand imports most of its crude oil feedstock from Singapore and Indonesia and some from Vietnam and Brunei of course but mainly through the Singapore commodities exchange while oil brokered and sold through Singapore has also dropped in price relative to the crude oil prices in other areas of the world.

Meantime the price of retail fuel products in Thailand does not reflect the current downward price of oil.

There is only one valid answer and that has to be the military government is colluding with the refiners and the retail fuel sectors to keep the prices up while slowly bringing them down....but not anywhere near what the prices should be ....or could be..... relative to the price of the crude oil that they are currently buying.

And some people still like the current military government and eagerly continue to support them thinking and or believing the country will do well by them......

Cheers

Have you reviewed any of the other posts showing fuel prices in other parts of the world where in many countries the fuel prices are much higher than Thailand due to taxes like in European countries? Heck in some European countries the taxes alone are higher than current total fuel prices in Thailand. Assuming you haven't reviewed some of the posts, take a review of this website that gives 1 Dec 14 prices of diesel fuel for many countries. Sure there are some countries where fuel prices are lower than Thailand due to big subsides, but Thailand is on the low side of the average worldwide diesel prices.

[thailiketoo]

In the case of Thailand the prices of retail fuels are being artificially held high.

In other parts of the world you will see the price of fuels eventually come down as the price of oil comes down...that is in a supply and demand market that is not manipulated by the government.

The Oil industry and the prices of oil and the related prices of retail fuels is a subject matter that I personally love to read about all the time while I have learned a lot.

In the case of Thailand I can only surmise the prices are being kept high by the current government ( huge difference in various tax related revenues if they actually followed the downward trend ) while presently the profit margins are really good for the refiners and or the retail fuel out lets....far more so then when the price of crude oil was what it was 6 months ago.

Thailand imports most of its crude oil feedstock from Singapore and Indonesia and some from Vietnam and Brunei of course but mainly through the Singapore commodities exchange while oil brokered and sold through Singapore has also dropped in price relative to the crude oil prices in other areas of the world.

Meantime the price of retail fuel products in Thailand does not reflect the current downward price of oil....a little bit down but not what the price could or should be in a fair and competitive market place

There is only one valid answer and that has to be the military government is colluding with the refiners and the retail fuel sectors to keep the prices up while slowly bringing them down....but not anywhere near what the prices should be ....or could be..... relative to the price of the crude oil that they are currently buying.

And some people still like the current military government and eagerly continue to support them thinking and or believing the country will do well by them......

Cheers

You can't read? http://www.pttplc.com/EN/Media-Center/Oil-Price/pages/Bangkok-Oil-Price.aspx

[Krataiboy]

Gas and oil are scarce commodities which are rapidly running out. They are also full of harmful pollutants which are destroying the Earth's ecology and human health. Double the tax on fuel for private vehicles, pro rata, across the globe and tell the able bodied to walk, get a bicycle. We'd save the planet, countless lives and billions in health costs.

[Pib]

Gas and oil are scarce commodities which are rapidly running out. They are also full of harmful pollutants which are destroying the Earth's ecology and human health. Double the tax on fuel for private vehicles, pro rata, across the globe and tell the able bodied to walk, get a bicycle. We'd save the planet, countless lives and billions in health costs.

Did you develop this hatred towards gas/oil because you failed your drivers license test?

[thailiketoo]

Gas and oil are scarce commodities which are rapidly running out. They are also full of harmful pollutants which are destroying the Earth's ecology and human health. Double the tax on fuel for private vehicles, pro rata, across the globe and tell the able bodied to walk, get a bicycle. We'd save the planet, countless lives and billions in health costs.

I don't think so.

[gemguy]

In the case of Thailand the prices of retail fuels are being artificially held high.

In other parts of the world you will see the price of fuels eventually come down as the price of oil comes down...that is in a supply and demand market that is not manipulated by the government.

The Oil industry and the prices of oil and the related prices of retail fuels is a subject matter that I personally love to read about all the time while I have learned a lot.

In the case of Thailand I can only surmise the prices are being kept high by the current government ( huge difference in various tax related revenues if they actually followed the downward trend ) while presently the profit margins are really good for the refiners and or the retail fuel out lets....far more so then when the price of crude oil was what it was 6 months ago.

Thailand imports most of its crude oil feedstock from Singapore and Indonesia and some from Vietnam and Brunei of course but mainly through the Singapore commodities exchange while oil brokered and sold through Singapore has also dropped in price relative to the crude oil prices in other areas of the world.

Meantime the price of retail fuel products in Thailand does not reflect the current downward price of oil....a little bit down but not what the price could or should be in a fair and competitive market place

There is only one valid answer and that has to be the military government is colluding with the refiners and the retail fuel sectors to keep the prices up while slowly bringing them down....but not anywhere near what the prices should be ....or could be..... relative to the price of the crude oil that they are currently buying.

And some people still like the current military government and eagerly continue to support them thinking and or believing the country will do well by them......

Cheers

You can't read? http://www.pttplc.com/EN/Media-Center/Oil-Price/pages/Bangkok-Oil-Price.aspx

The prices do not reflect the price of crude oil verses the refining margins including the various government taxes that existed before the price dropped to what it is.

As I said...the prices are being lowered much slower than they could if they were to follow the crude oil prices and then the refining margins, then the usual profits made by the retail outlets...then the various taxes added on.

Assuming the government taxes are not changed then the price could be notably lower.

Just saying.

Meantime the oil refiners and or the retail outlets are not obligated to lower the prices to suit the public, rather when they do lower the prices they lower the prices to suit themselves and historically lower them as slow as possible while maintaining a larger profit as long as they can.

Eventually the prices commonly settle in and then all the refiners and fuel oil retailers become competitive once again related to the cost of the crude oil and their refining margins and the retail margins.

When the prices are dropping rapidly ( considered rapidly at present ) you will see both refiners and retailers jockeying to maintain a larger spread between the costs of crude oil and the profit margins obtained on the refined petroleum products and the retail prices.

Commonly refiners sell their refined products at around a 5 % profit margin over and above their cost of crude oil feed stock and their refining cost which remains fairly consistent and then add on about 5 % profit and move the product to the retail level where retailers add a similar profit margin...before the government taxes at retail level are added on.

When the prices of oil are dropping as fast as they are they have to factor in the prices of the crude oil they paid for say 2 weeks ago that was purchased at say 4.5 % more than the current price ...so they can not immediately add on 5% margins based on the current lower price when the oil they are almost finished refining and putting out in the market comes from feedstock they paid a higher price for previously.

When they are refining oil that is bought at the current prices then that current price is factored into the average price they are paying over a 30 day period because the oil they paid a higher price for is blended with the oil they are paying the current lower prices for as they do not buy oil and then keep it separated each and every time they make a purchase of oil.

It is blended into storage as the oil delivery logistics of the crude oil feedstock is contained in storage tanks and eventually flows into the refinery.

In the case of Thailand this is more acute because nearly all of the oil comes by way of tanker shipments....so they buy today ( Most of it brokered through Singapore brokers )...but delivery is not until a week or 10 days later.

If the price of crude oil falls 10 dollars in the week to 10 days since they paid for 1.5 million barrels of crude oil purchased 10 days previously and delivered 10 days later the refiners will still be refining oil at the price they paid for it, 10 days earlier...while the price may fall even further while they are refining the feedstock that is coming intermittently and therefore being blended as new oil with a new price while topping up previous oil in storage having a lower or higher price.

Anyhow the prices here are not following as closely as the prices do in the North American markets and I am certain the government is intervening to keep the prices up higher than they would be if they followed the same trend in other countries.

But like one reader wrote the prices here are notably lower than the prices in many other countries that have no refining capacity and or the government really adds on the taxes more so than most other countries.

Cheers

Edited December 8, 2014 by gemguy

[balo]

OP is wrong , prices are going down , E20 was 34 baht 3 months ago and now its around 31 per litre.

[thailiketoo]

The prices do not reflect the price of crude oil verses the refining margins including the various government taxes that existed before the price dropped to what it is.

As I said...the prices are being lowered much slower than they could if they were to follow the crude oil prices and then the refining margins, then the usual profits made by the retail outlets...then the various taxes added on.

Assuming the government taxes are not changed then the price could be notably lower.

Just saying.

Meantime the oil refiners and or the retail outlets are not obligated to lower the prices to suit the public, rather when they do lower the prices they lower the prices to suit themselves and historically lower them as slow as possible while maintaining a larger profit as long as they can.

Eventually the prices commonly settle in and then all the refiners and fuel oil retailers become competitive once again related to the cost of the crude oil and their refining margins and the retail margins.

When the prices are dropping rapidly ( considered rapidly at present ) you will see both refiners and retailers jockeying to maintain a larger spread between the costs of crude oil and the profit margins obtained on the refined petroleum products and the retail prices.

Commonly refiners sell their refined products at around a 5 % profit margin over and above their cost of crude oil feed stock and their refining cost which remains fairly consistent and then add on about 5 % profit and move the product to the retail level where retailers add a similar profit margin...before the government taxes at retail level are added on.

When the prices of oil are dropping as fast as they are they have to factor in the prices of the crude oil they paid for say 2 weeks ago that was purchased at say 4.5 % more than the current price ...so they can not immediately add on 5% margins based on the current lower price when the oil they are almost finished refining and putting out in the market comes from feedstock they paid a higher price for previously.

When they are refining oil that is bought at the current prices then that current price is factored into the average price they are paying over a 30 day period because the oil they paid a higher price for is blended with the oil they are paying the current lower prices for as they do not buy oil and then keep it separated each and every time they make a purchase of oil.

It is blended into storage as the oil delivery logistics of the crude oil feedstock is contained in storage tanks and eventually flows into the refinery.

In the case of Thailand this is more acute because nearly all of the oil comes by way of tanker shipments....so they buy today ( Most of it brokered through Singapore brokers )...but delivery is not until a week or 10 days later.

If the price of crude oil falls 10 dollars in the week to 10 days since they paid for 1.5 million barrels of crude oil purchased 10 days previously and delivered 10 days later the refiners will still be refining oil at the price they paid for it, 10 days earlier...while the price may fall even further while they are refining the feedstock that is coming intermittently and therefore being blended as new oil with a new price while topping up previous oil in storage having a lower or higher price.

Anyhow the prices here are not following as closely as the prices do in the North American markets and I am certain the government is intervening to keep the prices up higher than they would be if they followed the same trend in other countries.

But like one reader wrote the prices here are notably lower than the prices in many other countries that have no refining capacity and or the government really adds on the taxes more so than most other countries.

Cheers

You wrote, "Anyhow the prices here are not following as closely as the prices do in the North American markets and I am certain the government is intervening to keep the prices up higher than they would be if they followed the same trend in other countries."

Prove it. A link or something besides your opinion. Has Thailand added anymore taxes? How would the government intervene if not adding taxes?

Anyway, nice post but no facts to support your opinion.

[meand]

Here are some more interesting question son this topic.

Why, in the us for example, do people even go to other gas stations when arco sells gas for considerably less? You can literally be standing. On a corner and arco is 2.75 while shell is 3.00, with just as many people at the shell. It boggles my mind why they simply don't just lose all their customers and go out of business.

Why are gas prices so variable station to station, from one shell station to the next for example, or one arco to the next. That weirds me out as well.

Sorry for going off topic.

[Sheist]

Wrong. Prices are not lower than $2.25 USD right now, and the median range is $2.30 to $3 (poor 'ole Los Angeles!). Gasbuddy dot com confirms it. Use the heat map and pick your favorite city or area.

[pedro01]

I filled up my fairly large car for 1740 today.

Prices are way down.

I filled up my small motorbike for 275 Baht instead of 200

Did you leave a puddle?

[jacko45k]

Cost me 1300 to fill the Fortuner today. It wasn't empty, but way down. Have paid nearly 2k in the past.

What's the relevance of filling "the Fortuner" specifically, is that something different from other cars that requires differentiation?

Perhaps he filled the back.

[DaffyDuck]

Cost me 1300 to fill the Fortuner today. It wasn't empty, but way down. Have paid nearly 2k in the past.

What's the relevance of filling "the Fortuner" specifically, is that something different from other cars that requires differentiation?

People that drive cars that they own often refer to them by brand or model name. People that don't own cars usually don't understand this, and attempt to passive-aggressively make some kind of class-difference statement about it.

[DaffyDuck]

In summary, the people complaining how the prices aren't dropping *as much THEY want them to drop* are also the same who aren't saying anything when petrol prices in Thailand are maintained at reasonable levels when they shoot up globally (this being achieved thanks to the buffer fund that was previously explained, and which those same people didn't pay attention to.)