Liability - Who Should Pay for a Broken Lock

[rob69]

Hi Everyone,

Be grateful if anyone in the real estate world can give me a definitive answer on this.....

I currently rent out my condo, and after 6 months or so, the tenant calls to tell me that he has snapped they key inside the lock of the door when he tried to open it, so therefore needs to replace the lock to the door completely. The tenant then arranges for this work to be carried out ASAP (which i don't have a problem with) and then passes me a copy of the bill to pay him back.

Who should be responsible for paying for the damage, me as the landlord or the tenant? Im pretty sure in the UK, that this would be the tenants responsibility to fix and pay for this damage.............but in Thailand(?), any advice would be welcome.

[Crossy]

My opinion only!

Keys, particularly house keys, don't just "break off in the lock" without giving some warning like the lock getting stiff. The tenant should have noticed and either lubricated the lock or contacted you as the landlord to come and rectify (that would be at your cost).

But since he didn't inform you and then broke the lock, IMHO it's his problem.

If he's a good tenant then perhaps in this case a 50/50 deal would be the way to go?

[Briggsy]

This is what deposits are for.

[rob69]

My opinion only!

Keys, particularly house keys, don't just "break off in the lock" without giving some warning like the lock getting stiff. The tenant should have noticed and either lubricated the lock or contacted you as the landlord to come and rectify (that would be at your cost).

But since he didn't inform you and then broke the lock, IMHO it's his problem.

If he's a good tenant then perhaps in this case a 50/50 deal would be the way to go?

Hmmm i know the person so didn't take a deposit off him (lesson learned even if its someone you know)!!

It also happened at a very strange hour, so I am sure he/she had been drinking before they returned to the condo.

50/50 split, well not too sure on that, for instance, as the landlord, i've even been asked to buy replacement light bulbs, each time a light bulb goes!!

Which is a little strange IMO, as i live in a rented house, and every time a bulb blows, id just go and buy another without even thinking to ask the landlord to pay for such trivia..........

[LennyW]

Most rental agreements i have known in Thailand usually have the tennant pay for any thing like light bulbs etc. up to 1000 Baht, anything over that and the landlord would pay, but depends what your lease agreement says.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Cylinder door locks from 99bht and up, most doors have the 99bht ones.

Five minutes to replace if you have a cross head screwdriver.

Why would anyone argue about who pays?

[rob69]

So 1400 Baht would be quite expensive then?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

So 1400 Baht would be quite expensive then?

That would most likely be a faked receipt in an attempt to scam you IMHO.

A common problem when people 'had to get something fixed in a hurry' then pass the bill on.

That's why they fix it in a hurry, gives you no chance for sensible quotes.

Give them notice and get new tenants, these have run out of money, next they will be selling your furnishings.

Edited December 15, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Crossy]

So 1400 Baht would be quite expensive then?

If he had to call a locksmith at **AM to open the door and replace the lock, not too ridiculous (farang price mind).

If it's just a replacement lock and not a flash one, way OTT.

[Gentmartin]

Im guessing if theres no deposit, theres no rental agreement also ??

He broke it,he should pay in my opinion.......but without a rental agreement or deposit...........you might have to suck this one up and then get a new tenant with a proper rental agreement next time.

I live in a rented shop house, Im constantly fixing alsorts of stuff especially plumbing ! But Im hoping for a long stay here and no problems with our deposit when we leave and so far so good, never see or hear from the landlady and we do pretty much what we want with the place......

However, i know a felang living close in a similar place, he constanty whinges and whines and charges his landlady for everything, paint, a lock ( which i fixed for him) and god knows whatever else. He has had 3 places in 2.5 years and it always ends up in a fight !

Choose the quiet life mate, pay up this time if tenant is a good payer, but have a little chat if you know him about limits and guidelines...good luck :-)

[tinhead]

Broken lock would be a defect in the suite and not wear and tear IMO. It interferes with reasonable access to the property.

Windows, doors, plumbing (not as a result of operator error), furnishings not supplied by the tenant usually fall on the landlord.

Although cost to repair could be quite low in normal circumstances, immediate or emergency circumstances carry a much heavier price.

It looks like the guy saved you the trouble by arranging the work to be carried out on your behalf.

Under other circumstances the bill might have also included an overnight stay in a fancy hotel and some out of pocket expenses.

Granted most good people just suck it up.

[PaulHamon]

My opinion only!

Keys, particularly house keys, don't just "break off in the lock" without giving some warning like the lock getting stiff. The tenant should have noticed and either lubricated the lock or contacted you as the landlord to come and rectify (that would be at your cost).

But since he didn't inform you and then broke the lock, IMHO it's his problem.

If he's a good tenant then perhaps in this case a 50/50 deal would be the way to go?

I've had 2 house keys break off in the lock for me over the years.

I think it comes down to the 'keys' how old and warn was it when the client rented the condo.

I have a key on keyring right now that is ready to break, it came with the house when my wife purchased the condo. (I should move it the the spare set of keys, that would be the smart thing to do).

If it's they key fault and you gave it to them 2 months ago.... well... it's 100% you.

If it was a brand new key when the client moved in.... 100% them.

If it's a 50/50 then it's 50/50

Just my thoughts,

[ToddinChonburi]

I had to replace a lock on my rental property back in the USA $ 115 for the lock man to come out. a bunch of B.S.

[dotpoom]

I rent out a one bedroom condo. The agent (Farang) was often deducting from rent due to me money for replaced light bulbs. On one occasion he stopped 700 Baht for seven bulbs and the technician's payment for putting them in. I changed my agent after that and a few other stunts he was trying to pull.....But i have to say, I always felt it was my responsibility to replace the broken ones. Of course, I rent out to tourists from a few days up to about a month at a time, were the tenant living in the condo full time I would expect him to replace the bulbs himself.

[gyrosman]

Find a new tenant.

[mikebike]

You're kidding, right? The tenant pays. Period.

If this is an issue between u and him/her give 'em the boot!!!!

[2fishin2]

Lightbulbs tenant

Lock landlord

Geese guys we arent talking much money here

[thailand49]

Being a license Realtor and managing a large apartment building for 25 years but in the States and owning a apartment unit with my Thai wife which I do all the maintenance for her this is my opinion.

The message and for you to think about for the future is something called " wear and tear " here in Thailand products even the expensive ones are not made the way they are made for the U.S..the cheapest door lock I can buy at a Home depot is better in quality than nearly anything I buy here in Thailand and that goes for the keys! No matter how cheap in the States there is a thing called " Quality control " it does not exist here try getting a refund here!

I have replaced a number of doors locks here a number? and found how cheap they are made by the manufacturer cutting corners by using less metal in the products and even the screws? they strip very easy! and that being said they cut corner to save money knowing no one is checking and how many actually ask for refunds or can even get one. It is a numbers game!

So that being said you can assume your tenant is the blame? It take 5 minutes to get a new lock and 5 minutes to change one! If the lock jams or got stuck anyone of us including yourself wanting to get into your place depending on the time would and might put a little force to the key and if the key is made in Thailand or even a hairline crack it breaks. Would you like being called in the middle of the night for something like this?

If he is a good tenant and do not have a history of stuff breaking in the unit all the time I would just pay the bill or replace it yourself and call it a day! Done this many times accidents does happen and if you nic pick the tenant picks back? is it worth loosing a good tenant put yourself in his place and you will know right away the answer unless you never rented? A month vacancy take a year to regroup the lost? Replace the lock and the old one and see if you can remove the broken key with a snub nose. If you get the key out and have a replacement you might be able to find out why the key broke off! Don't just blame it on the tenant!

I have replaced a number of locks for my Thai tenants and after examining the unit it is made of poor quality many of the latches are hollow so closing the door after a hundred times or so the latch cracks and stick!

Edited December 15, 2014 by thailand49

[snowgard]

Speakless!!! Him break the key, so it's his fault. Him order a new lock, him MUST pay. In normal a key never broke if you put it right in the lock. Maybe if you MAU and it's not right inside with a Little bit to much power it can break!!! ;-)

But if him order the new lock, him have to pay!!! Otherwise him had to call and inform you and if you give your OK it will be right!!!

[Myshkin]

It happened to me a few months ago as a tenant, and I had to pay myself. The part inside the lock broke while I was smoothly turning the key. I can assure you that it was due to normal wear and tear, as the quality of these locks are medicore at best and due to breack rapidly as most everything else. The country I come from I never had to change the lock in over 40 years, but it was worth 200 US $. Here I had to pay 330 baht for the lock and 100 baht for installation, no big deal and certainly not worth wasting time in arguing.

[Gentmartin]

A lot of people here mentioning these damn locks, seems a constant that they break easily. Ive changed 4 in under 2 years, all resulted in the door staying locked including one on the outside back door which locked us out !! They are totally crap.....

Edited December 15, 2014 by Gentmartin

[frollywolly]

It happened to me a few months ago as a tenant, and I had to pay myself. The part inside the lock broke while I was smoothly turning the key. I can assure you that it was due to normal wear and tear, as the quality of these locks are medicore at best and due to breack rapidly as most everything else. The country I come from I never had to change the lock in over 40 years, but it was worth 200 US $. Here I had to pay 330 baht for the lock and 100 baht for installation, no big deal and certainly not worth wasting time in arguing.

Not worth arguing about at all. Tenant should pay, of course. Next 50/50. After that, pay, find a new tenant.

[ryanwiley]

This just happened to me (I'm the renter). I went to Home Pro just to see what a new lock costs. ...139 baht for a brand new one! It didn't even cross my mind to call the owner of the condo. The fact that there is even a discussion between you and your tenant should be cause for concern! You're talking 5 USD and 20 minutes to replace it!

[Acharn]

So 1400 Baht would be quite expensive then?

That would most likely be a faked receipt in an attempt to scam you IMHO.

A common problem when people 'had to get something fixed in a hurry' then pass the bill on.

That's why they fix it in a hurry, gives you no chance for sensible quotes.

Give them notice and get new tenants, these have run out of money, next they will be selling your furnishings.

I used to rent an apartment in the same building as a niece and her husband. We went there one time and I had forgotten the key. Luckily the husband knew of a locksmith nearby. The guy came with a toolbox and in about three minutes had us in the apartment, about five more minutes had replaced the cylinder lock in the doorknob. We had one of those steel cylinders that fits over the knob and a really strong looking padlock on that. This guy went through it almost as fast as I could with the keys. Amazing. He charged us about ฿500 for the job (though as I recall that included the cost of the new lock).

[AnotherOneAmerican]

So 1400 Baht would be quite expensive then?

That would most likely be a faked receipt in an attempt to scam you IMHO.

A common problem when people 'had to get something fixed in a hurry' then pass the bill on.

That's why they fix it in a hurry, gives you no chance for sensible quotes.

Give them notice and get new tenants, these have run out of money, next they will be selling your furnishings.

I used to rent an apartment in the same building as a niece and her husband. We went there one time and I had forgotten the key. Luckily the husband knew of a locksmith nearby. The guy came with a toolbox and in about three minutes had us in the apartment, about five more minutes had replaced the cylinder lock in the doorknob. We had one of those steel cylinders that fits over the knob and a really strong looking padlock on that. This guy went through it almost as fast as I could with the keys. Amazing. He charged us about ฿500 for the job (though as I recall that included the cost of the new lock).

Locksmith?

Give me a hammer and I will have the lock out in 20 seconds, no damage to the door, and 100bht for the replacement.

Some of you guys should actually take a look at how these locks work yourselves.

It's what I do if I lock myself out, after checking all the windows.

[ggt]

Your tenant could do thousands of dollars in damage to your condo and leave in the middle of the night...just consider that the door lock would not let go of the key and the key eventually broke off...do not make a big issue out of this...you will likely lose more than the cost of a new door lock...

[Guitar God]

If it was my property and I was leasing it out to someone and they broke the key off in the lock, I'd be the one paying for the repair.

However, if I was leasing a house from someone else and I broke the key off in the lock, then I would be the one paying for the repair.

Hope this helps...

[MichaelSong]

Just calculate your ROI and see how much difference it makes.

[jacko45k]

Surely it should state on your rental agreement who is responsible for damages.

If you agreed to them getting it repaired did you not accept an estimate?

Split it 50:50.

[louse1953]

Being a license Realtor and managing a large apartment building for 25 years but in the States and owning a apartment unit with my Thai wife which I do all the maintenance for her this is my opinion.

The message and for you to think about for the future is something called " wear and tear " here in Thailand products even the expensive ones are not made the way they are made for the U.S..the cheapest door lock I can buy at a Home depot is better in quality than nearly anything I buy here in Thailand and that goes for the keys! No matter how cheap in the States there is a thing called " Quality control " it does not exist here try getting a refund here!

I have replaced a number of doors locks here a number? and found how cheap they are made by the manufacturer cutting corners by using less metal in the products and even the screws? they strip very easy! and that being said they cut corner to save money knowing no one is checking and how many actually ask for refunds or can even get one. It is a numbers game!

So that being said you can assume your tenant is the blame? It take 5 minutes to get a new lock and 5 minutes to change one! If the lock jams or got stuck anyone of us including yourself wanting to get into your place depending on the time would and might put a little force to the key and if the key is made in Thailand or even a hairline crack it breaks. Would you like being called in the middle of the night for something like this?

If he is a good tenant and do not have a history of stuff breaking in the unit all the time I would just pay the bill or replace it yourself and call it a day! Done this many times accidents does happen and if you nic pick the tenant picks back? is it worth loosing a good tenant put yourself in his place and you will know right away the answer unless you never rented? A month vacancy take a year to regroup the lost? Replace the lock and the old one and see if you can remove the broken key with a snub nose. If you get the key out and have a replacement you might be able to find out why the key broke off! Don't just blame it on the tenant!

I have replaced a number of locks for my Thai tenants and after examining the unit it is made of poor quality many of the latches are hollow so closing the door after a hundred times or so the latch cracks and stick!

You sound like a typical boss,there is no such thing as a 5 minute job.Unless the chippy lives next door,but he still has to get his tools,have a coffee and ciggy and get to the job.