Russia's gay community in fear as homophobic attacks increase

[Jingthing]

...

Finally. Give me one example of the oppression of gays in Russia.

The attitude in your post says it all, comrade.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2680i3_hunted-in-russia-documentary_shortfilms

Edited December 17, 2014 by Jingthing

[Choctastic]

WCIOM is a Russian polling organization. According to their polling results, Russian attitudes towards homosexuality have hardened over recent years.

http://www.wciom.com/index.php?id=61&uid=830

'The overwhelming majority of Russians support the ban on gay propaganda (88%, in 2012 86%). Only 7% of Russians opposes this ban.'

'Over the recent years the share of those who oppose same-sex marriage has increased: from 59% in 2005 to 86% currently. At the same time, the share of those who believe that same-sex couples can marry has dramatically decreased (from 14 to 4%). The number of those who partly agree or partly disagree with this statement has also decreased (from 17 to 6%).'

It would be nice to have an explanation that doesn't include the words 'homophobic' and 'haters'.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Choctastic

[Jingthing]

WCIOM is a Russian polling organization. According to their polling results, Russian attitudes towards homosexuality have hardened over recent years.

http://www.wciom.com/index.php?id=61&uid=830

'The overwhelming majority of Russians support the ban on gay propaganda (88%, in 2012 86%). Only 7% of Russians opposes this ban.'

'Over the recent years the share of those who oppose same-sex marriage has increased: from 59% in 2005 to 86% currently. At the same time, the share of those who believe that same-sex couples can marry has dramatically decreased (from 14 to 4%). The number of those who partly agree or partly disagree with this statement has also decreased (from 17 to 6%).'

It would be nice to have an explanation that doesn't include the words 'homophobic' and 'haters'.

Gays have been scapegoated for political propaganda purposes.

They are associated with the west, which Putin paints as the enemy of his renewed "strong" Russia.

They are not even allowed to speak out in their defense now under the law.

That would be seen as "gay propaganda" just to say being gay is OK.

This is especially tragic for gay Russian youth.

You are blaming the targets of persecution for what their persecutors are doing. That's twisted.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Jingthing

[FritsSikkink]

I disagree with you on every point, hence proving my thesis; this subject cannot be discussed and regrettably will be decided on the streets.

I would dearly love to post exactly what I thought about it all, but then we know what that would result in.

As I said, this is as futile as multiculturalism, and will be decided on the streets.

You post hate speech and you will get the same response. If not from me then from others.

You claim history on your side. Post some evidence. I would respect that and I would debate that respectfully. Your thesis was that societies that accept gay people fail because of those people. I hold firm to the view that this is nonsense but that idea can be debated. The other stuff was and is hate speech and I and an increasing number of others will continue to object and fight against it.

Ball's in your court. To keep on topic, maybe provide evidence of the destruction of Russian society and culture because of the call to respect the diversity of people based on sexual orientation or gender identity? Give me something to respond to and debate.

Otherwise I welcome your silence. That was my objective in my post and entirely drove the tone of my remarks.

...So? Are you still intent upon "multiculturalizing" my views and force your will upon me and my progenitors, and willing to stoop to any means to do so, without any consideration for my traditions, my culture, my values, etc.? Are you still intent upon forcing your will upon me and to ridicule and insult and accuse and harass and seek incarceration of me and my progenitors for my traditions, my culture, my values, etc.?

I thought so.

The streets it will be then.

What are you rambling about? You don't have to be gay. If you don't like it others are, up to you. This doesn't give you the right to make laws or do things to try to prevent adult people to express there feelings to each other. Your comparison with pedophiles is stupid as this is about adults exploiting children for there sexual urges. Please tell me what you want to do on the streets and where. would be happy to meet you there.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[Yann55]

Okay

1 manhatten

2 San francisco

3 most of boston

4 West Hollywood

5 Boystown Chicago

Oh you like the beach?

1 Provincetowm Massachusetts

2 Rehoboth Beach Delaware

3 Miami South Beach

Your list is massively misleading.

Of large cities, San Francisco has the highest percentage of gays.

About FIFTEEN percent.

Those other big cities you mention, Boston, Manhattan MUCH LESS.

Does that sound overrun to anybody rational?

Now if you're talking about small "gay ghetto" type enclaves, then some small areas are higher than that.

There does not exist even one large U.S. city that is in any way imaginable "overrun" with gays.

So ... sounds like Alex's list was overrun by paranoia ?

[Vagabond1]

For Comrade Vlad.

Images speak louder than words.

Russian state TV

And Russians:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhY7DKAf4c4

[ggt]

Try immigrating to the US as a persecuted individual...there are communities in the US that have been overrun by gays...you will be protected there...

Can you name one of these communities that have been 'overrun by gays' in the US please?

If you will send me a personal message I will try to help you contact the gay community there...

You misunderstand me. I don't want to contact anyone. I just wondered if you could provide an example of a community in the US that has been 'overrun by gays' to back up your post.

This you tube video may also be of interest to you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJudOYLr_Qc&list=PLRoslh4FNcdxACu36b3AMiJI7PhfjoKWI#t=24

[sustento]

You misunderstand me. I don't want to contact anyone. I just wondered if you could provide an example of a community in the US that has been 'overrun by gays' to back up your post.

This you tube video may also be of interest to you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJudOYLr_Qc&list=PLRoslh4FNcdxACu36b3AMiJI7PhfjoKWI#t=24

I know it's sometimes difficult for straight folks to move away from old stereotypes but that video is of no interest whatever to me nor I suspect to any of my gay friends.

Now are you going to provide me with an example of a community in the US (just one will do) that's been 'overrun by gays'?

[mitsubishi]

Better send for the Jinglething to be parachuted in to take care of business.

[Vadmoscow79]

For Comrade Vlad.

Images speak louder than words.

Russian state TV

And Russians:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhY7DKAf4c4

you know that in the second video says about gay pedophiles who are familiar with the children through social networks and then rape them .or do you think that gay rights pedophiles also needs to be protected?

[Vadmoscow79]

There are US citizens? I have a question. if I want to hold a rally at the US territroii what I needed for this?

[ggt]

You misunderstand me. I don't want to contact anyone. I just wondered if you could provide an example of a community in the US that has been 'overrun by gays' to back up your post.

This you tube video may also be of interest to you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJudOYLr_Qc&list=PLRoslh4FNcdxACu36b3AMiJI7PhfjoKWI#t=24

I know it's sometimes difficult for straight folks to move away from old stereotypes but that video is of no interest whatever to me nor I suspect to any of my gay friends.

Now are you going to provide me with an example of a community in the US (just one will do) that's been 'overrun by gays'?

Think of "overrun" as something less than a swarm of locusts and more like a pesty roach infestation...does this clear it up for you...?

[Jingthing]

It is "normal" to hate gays in Russia and "normal" for Russian police to ignore violent attacks on gays.

Russia -- the world sees this.

Your "normality" is SICK.

[Vadmoscow79]

I do not understand the problem. In Russia, all citizens have equal rights regardless of skin color and sexual confession faith - it is written in the current constitution Russia .In the Criminal Code of the Russian no criminal punishment for homosexuality.

any activity related to sexual aggression, regardless of your sexual oreentatsiey punishable by law.

any sexual acts against children and adolescents, regardless of your sexual orientation threaten long imprisonment.

[Jingthing]

I do not understand the problem. In Russia, all citizens have equal rights regardless of skin color and sexual confession faith - it is written in the current constitution Russia .In the Criminal Code of the Russian no criminal punishment for homosexuality.

any activity related to sexual aggression, regardless of your sexual oreentatsiey punishable by law.

any sexual acts against children and adolescents, regardless of your sexual orientation threaten long imprisonment.

You can't hide what's really happening to gays in Russia.

We know.

Putin's propaganda doesn't work outside of Russia.

Equal rights, you say?

We're not stupid, comrade.

If Russia is suffering now from your dictator and the economic collapse he caused, good, most Russians DESERVE that for supporting him but for those who oppose him and need to ESCAPE, like many Russian gays, I sure hope they can find a way.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[Vadmoscow79]

I do not understand the statement oppression of homosexuals in Russia.

Why tourists from Russia do not attack gay and not gay clubs smash in Thailand?

There is no problem. All these so-called gay mentally ill people.

Nobody cares what size you dick or what position you <deleted> with my wife or with your lover.

not to anyone not interested in how many times and how much shit you wipe your ass - it is not interesting

but if you are in a social network will meet with the child and will send him a picture of his dick then you will have problems

if you sit down to shit in a public place - you will have problems

If you prefer to have sex in a public place you will have problems

Regardless of the orientation and color !!!!

No have problems of homosexuals in Russia.

In Russia there are gay clubs where you can go and behave in a more relaxed.

On the Internet there are many RU gay dating Resources Forum on sex shops

[robertthebruce]

Pussy Riot, the Russian Pop Group, they were put in Prison, for a ''SONG'' ???

Madonna created a right fuss, too........

Russia needs to move into the 21st Century....

Live and Let Live....

but its like Preaching to the Dead.....

[sustento]

You misunderstand me. I don't want to contact anyone. I just wondered if you could provide an example of a community in the US that has been 'overrun by gays' to back up your post.

This you tube video may also be of interest to you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJudOYLr_Qc&list=PLRoslh4FNcdxACu36b3AMiJI7PhfjoKWI#t=24

I know it's sometimes difficult for straight folks to move away from old stereotypes but that video is of no interest whatever to me nor I suspect to any of my gay friends.

Now are you going to provide me with an example of a community in the US (just one will do) that's been 'overrun by gays'?

Think of "overrun" as something less than a swarm of locusts and more like a pesty roach infestation...does this clear it up for you...?

Apart from the implied roach insult It would do if you could actually name a few places that have been 'overrun'.

[Jingthing]

I do not understand the statement oppression of homosexuals in Russia.

...

He does not understand.

This gay club sounds like a great place to "relax"!

Moscow’s largest gay club will soon close its doors for good, after a string of vigilante attacks, including shootings, violent assaults and the release of poison gas.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/03/17/russia-moscows-largest-gay-club-closes-string-vigilante-attacks/

Dude, this isn't the Soviet era when things could be hidden.

We SEE what is happening.

Assuming you're Russian and acting like this isn't happening: SHAME ON YOU.

If Russian tourists attack gays in Thailand, they will be under THAI LAW and subject to prosecution under THAI LAW. Unlike back home where the police are on the side the of attackers.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I have no great regard for the lunatic fringe of the gay rights movement - the far left activists - but what is happening in Russia is about basic human rights, that everyone is entitled to. I don't see how anyone can make excuses for what is happening there and in most Islamic countries around the world.

[Jingthing]

I have no great regard for the lunatic fringe of the gay rights movement - the far left activists - but what is happening in Russia is about basic human rights, that everyone is entitled to. I don't see how anyone can make excuses for what is happening there and in most Islamic countries around the world.

Yes, you're right, the gay rights situation in much of the Islamic world is atrocious.

But Russia is not the only Christian dominant country that persecutes gays. Things are especially bad now in many African countries.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[Tep]

I do not understand the problem. In Russia, all citizens have equal rights regardless of skin color and sexual confession faith - it is written in the current constitution Russia .In the Criminal Code of the Russian no criminal punishment for homosexuality.

any activity related to sexual aggression, regardless of your sexual oreentatsiey punishable by law.

any sexual acts against children and adolescents, regardless of your sexual orientation threaten long imprisonment.

Your comments are evidence of why LGBT people are fearful in Russia, In all your posts, including your first and thankfully deleted effort, you indicate that there is a relationship between LGBT people and their natural, human rights and pedophilia and public sexual activity. This type of attitude is expressly designed to attack any move for the acceptance of natural human rights for LGBT people.

You are either deliberately ignoring this factor or are an example of how these tactics influence ill-informed people. Either way your comments demonstrate that you are uncultured.

If you truly want a discussion on sexual crimes against children or the phenomenon of public sexual activity then there are places for this discussion but in absolutely no way are these subjects related to LGBT rights. Your suggestion that it is otherwise is objectionable and I wish this disgusting and disturbing thread could expire into the cess pit where it belongs.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Tep

[Jingthing]

He's cultured. Russian cultured. Sadly, in mainstream Russian mentality,homosexuality and pedophilia are closely linked. That is not new. Gays were horribly oppressed in Soviet times. Putin is just exploiting a vein of hatred and ignorance that was already there to mine. Not sure what the outside world can do about that except support for gay Russian refugees from persecution. The brave ones that don't wish to flee, good luck to them but they are going to have to be very patient as things aren't likely to improve for them for decades at best.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[Tep]

He's cultured. Russian cultured. Sadly, in mainstream Russian mentality,homosexuality and pedophilia are closely linked. That is not new. Gays were horribly oppressed in Soviet times. Putin is just exploiting a vein of hatred and ignorance that was already there to mine. Not sure what the outside world can do about that except support for gay Russian refugees from persecution. The brave ones that don't wish to flee, good luck to them but they are going to have to be very patient as things aren't likely to improve for them for decades at best.

Actually I was trying to be provocative to say that the posters comments were a sign of backward thinking. I studied Russian History and Literature at Uni and continued to read on the subject afterwards. One of my lit professors was a Russia-phile who spoke what I thought was fluent Russian. It was exotic, being in the late 70's. In my studies, one consistent theme of the Russian elite was the need to feel acceptable to the other, more sophisticated European traditions. This is why St Petersburg is built in the neo-classical style. I have been there and it is beautiful. Part of this tradition is the idea of 'nekulturny' or uncultured which is a put down http://www.langust.ru/review/xeno-rua.shtml Apparently it can also now mean something like White Trash and that may be a bit harsh even though I thoroughly object to the comments. So I want the poster to think about his views as being backwards (rather than just being insulting).

I had thought maybe Russian LGBT people might be come the next wave of asylum seekers. But somehow I doubt it. It is a social issue rather then a political one. It can't be eradicated and in a modern, information driven world, it can't be hidden. It may take time and will certainly include a lot of pain and despair but they will come up with solutions I think.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Tep

[Choctastic]

I wish this disgusting and disturbing thread could expire into the cess pit where it belongs.

There you go again with your bizarre exaggerations. Your personal angst that most Russians are averse to homosexual promotion to minors is no reason for you to shut down the topic. You seem to be only posting now to jump on anyone who doesn't share your enthusiasm for the gay agenda. When you bandy around false accusations, you don't engender sympathy for your cause. You create resentment. The opposite of what you should want. All you are left with is force.

I would like to hear a Russian point of view on this topic. The unreasonable attacks on his post, only exposes what most people understand. Positive voices are welcomed. Dissenting voices are attacked.

Why not sort out your own dysfunctional country before attacking others? Take up a cause everyone can rally around, like the Predator-droning of the innocent. The loss of everyone's civil liberties. The clubbing of Occupy and other protesters, like baby seals. Your own murderous, unaccountable, militarized Police force.

[Jingthing]

The topic here is about Russian persecution of their gay people which is a fact. More specifically the VIOLENCE against gay people there and the lack of interest from the authorities in prosecuting the anti-gay violent criminals. That's it.

Sure Russian voices are welcome. But if people Russian or otherwise post hateful filth equating gay people with pedo crimes or bald face LIES that gay people aren't facing severe persecution there now, they are going to get pushback and they bloody well deserve it.

Russia of course can do what it wants. No foreign power is going to invade Russia over their treatment of gays even if they gassed all their gays. But that doesn't stop the rest of the world learning about what is happening there and expressing strong criticism.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[Tep]

I wish this disgusting and disturbing thread could expire into the cess pit where it belongs.

There you go again with your bizarre exaggerations. Your personal angst that most Russians are averse to homosexual promotion to minors is no reason for you to shut down the topic. You seem to be only posting now to jump on anyone who doesn't share your enthusiasm for the gay agenda. When you bandy around false accusations, you don't engender sympathy for your cause. You create resentment. The opposite of what you should want. All you are left with is force.

I would like to hear a Russian point of view on this topic. The unreasonable attacks on his post, only exposes what most people understand. Positive voices are welcomed. Dissenting voices are attacked.

Why not sort out your own dysfunctional country before attacking others? Take up a cause everyone can rally around, like the Predator-droning of the innocent. The loss of everyone's civil liberties. The clubbing of Occupy and other protesters, like baby seals. Your own murderous, unaccountable, militarized Police force.

More hate speech from a hater. No surprise there. For the benefit of the dimmest of wits, I repeat my agenda. It is to call out and expose hate speech on LGBT issues. Deal with it. You aid and abet the persecution of the LGBT community. Deal with that. I leave the discourse and engagement to others like Jingthing. He is far more patient. Thank you for your suggestion about what to do with my time. You entirely miss the mark about where I am from. Typical. Ignorance is bliss I guess. You continue to post hate speech I will continue to call it out.

Drone attacks! Occupy protesters! Police militarisation! On this thread? Blaming me for these? You are not serious that you want a discussion. Read my other posts. I have discussions with serious people. I don't with lunatics. Or Haters.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. The thread is about homophobic attacks on Russian gays.

This rule applies to this forum:

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Choctastic]

The topic here is about Russian persecution of their gay people which is a fact. More specifically the VIOLENCE against gay people there and the lack of interest from the authorities in prosecuting the anti-gay violent criminals. That's it.

Not so. The BBC also mentioned the underlying cause of this 'persecution'. The new law designed to protect minors. What did the Russian Constitutional Court have to say about it?

'.. The Constitutional Court said that the law was aimed at saving a child from the information impact, which could push him to nonconventional sexual relationships, which in their turn prevent from building a family, as it is traditionally understood in Russia.

The court also ruled that the ban on propagandizing non-conventional sexual relationships is not a ban or censure of homosexuality itself.'

'The court said it has dismissed Alekseevs arguments that his actions were not propaganda, but were aimed at spreading objective information, which cannot inflict harm to health, moral or spiritual development of minors. Alekseevs claim was contradicted by the materials in the case, the court said.

(one wonders what those materials were?)

'The practices of some European countries, which are connected with the deformation of traditional values of family and marriage, cant be an example for us.

What is wrong with this? One of my biggest regrets, as a parent, is that my son will not have children. Aren't my feelings about this normal and natural, rather than being indicative of a 'hater'? If most parents feel this way, as they appear to do in Russia, then it is perfectly reasonable to not expose children to alternatives, when they are at a vulnerable stage. The practice of 'grooming' does exist and should not be allowed. If a minor left alone would choose a conventional lifestyle, isn't it a form of corruption to seduce him or her into making a different choice? I choose the word 'seduce' deliberately. Education should be done, without promoting the lifestyle. I totally agree with acceptance and tolerance but not promotion.

As for violence, when I was in Russia I learned very quickly to avoid the Police, since they were corrupt and indifferent. No matter what the crime. It's a myth the Police are there to 'protect and serve' the public.

Sure Russian voices are welcome. But if people Russian or otherwise post hateful filth equating gay people with pedo crimes or bald face LIES that gay people aren't facing severe persecution there now, they are going to get pushback and they bloody well deserve it.

I have had to defend my son against ignorance, so I'm not disagreeing. However, I don't think you get anywhere combating ignorance with violent language, from either standpoint. You only harden stances.

I would have liked to canvas him about the basis for his opinion. Is it a religious thing, a 'phobia', or is he just leaping on a bandwagon?

No foreign power is going to invade Russia over their treatment of gays even if they gassed all their gays.

Now who is equating? There is no mention of 'gassing' in relation to this issue.

But that doesn't stop the rest of the world learning about what is happening there and expressing strong criticism.

Those who control the media decide which issues should be prominent. Like the Pussy Riot circus, the involvement of Human Rights Watch is political and part of the demonization of Putin. If the media had published some of the disgusting images of the anarchic 'Pussy Riot' members publicly having sex in Museums and so on, they would have received little sympathy but that did not suit the agenda. We see what they want us to see.