Meat exposed in open tubs

[Soutpeel]

After reading some of the comments by the OP one wonders why he didn't stay in farangistan

[WhamBam]

Plenty of bacteria in chicken sold in the U.K. according to recent reports.

Campylobacter and it is said to be a serious problem, covered or not, wrapped or not.

Take your pick.

[petedk]

As you probably will have noticed already, the major supermarkets in Thailand have a tending to sell their chicken and other meats in big open tubs stationed in the middle of the walking area.

That way it is all day exposed to sneezes, coughs and more of thousand of people passing and scrambling in those tubs. Some may have diseases that are transmittable or bad hygiene.

I for one will never buy any meat out of such a tub, even if it was for free, and would think that in the Western world this would be strictly forbidden.

What do you think about this practice?

The OP is more concerned about diseases passed on from coughing and sneezing than bacteria developing on the meat.

In the Big C supermarket where we shop the "tubs" are so cold that often the meat is frozen to the surface, so I don't think there is a big problem there.

As for coughing and sneezing, - what about the fruit section and the bread section? These products are just as exposed to germs and bacteria and people are always testing the crispiness of bread with their fingers.

I always wash the meat and cook it well. Same for for vegetables and fruit. They are always washed well.

Unfortunately we can't wash bread and cakes, so we make our own

[Anthony5]

As you probably will have noticed already, the major supermarkets in Thailand have a tending to sell their chicken and other meats in big open tubs stationed in the middle of the walking area.

That way it is all day exposed to sneezes, coughs and more of thousand of people passing and scrambling in those tubs. Some may have diseases that are transmittable or bad hygiene.

I for one will never buy any meat out of such a tub, even if it was for free, and would think that in the Western world this would be strictly forbidden.

What do you think about this practice?

The OP is more concerned about diseases passed on from coughing and sneezing than bacteria developing on the meat.

In the Big C supermarket where we shop the "tubs" are so cold that often the meat is frozen to the surface, so I don't think there is a big problem there.

As for coughing and sneezing, - what about the fruit section and the bread section? These products are just as exposed to germs and bacteria and people are always testing the crispiness of bread with their fingers.

I always wash the meat and cook it well. Same for for vegetables and fruit. They are always washed well.

Unfortunately we can't wash bread and cakes, so we make our own

It has been posted a few times already that washing poultry doesn't remove any bacteria, most fruits however normally have a peel which you remove before eating them, and fruits and vegetables can be thoroughly washed as well.

[peterb17]

Must admit never tempted- but if you have been following the news- up to 80% of wonderful, delicious , hygienically packed chicken in the major UK supermarkets is infected with campylobacter - the advice from the Government is not to wash raw chicken- because you will spray your sink and work top with scrummy campylobacter - can give you really bad dose of food poisoning

To be honest you simply cannot spend you life worrying about things, some posters on here ( dare I say from the USA) seems obsessed about food, health and safety etc.

Please help me- where can I get raw hemp seeds? This will extend my life by 10 minutes ( only joking please do not reply)

[ryanhull]

Well, cook it properly you will be fine, however its not nice and not hard for the supermarkets to cover it up in my opinion. Fly`s seem to love it which puts me off quite alot, then again go to most butchers out of Bangkok and meat it just hanging in the heat swarming with flies... then again cook it properly and your fine although agreed it isn't nice.

[NoshowJones]

I hope that this is the wave of the future for Thailand -- and the concept becomes a sales method to copy-cat...

http://www.betagro.com/index_en.php

It is not OCD to not want to buy meat from an open tub where the meat has literally been fingered by passers by. Rather it is just awareness that the meat in the tub can easily be contaminated and cooking is not a full proof answer. Because the meat must be handled at home in putting the meat in storage or in cooking preparation. Next humans typically do the hand to mouth movements almost as a reflex. The meats in the open air evening - night Thai markets are handled the same way... I cannot imagine why a major supermarket chain copies this method...

For those of us who find it unappealing - there is little change for change in attitude... So markets like Betagro have a real future... And I have noticed that Thais frequent these shops as much or more than Westerners...

Thanks for your post, i couldn't have explained the real issue better than that.

Have you ever walked through a Thai market? At the cooked chicken stall, loads of people are picking them up, putting them back down again, then walking away, they could have been scratching their arse, or picking their nose.

There's no way I ever buy them.

[AYJAYDEE]

I hope that this is the wave of the future for Thailand -- and the concept becomes a sales method to copy-cat...

http://www.betagro.com/index_en.php

It is not OCD to not want to buy meat from an open tub where the meat has literally been fingered by passers by. Rather it is just awareness that the meat in the tub can easily be contaminated and cooking is not a full proof answer. Because the meat must be handled at home in putting the meat in storage or in cooking preparation. Next humans typically do the hand to mouth movements almost as a reflex. The meats in the open air evening - night Thai markets are handled the same way... I cannot imagine why a major supermarket chain copies this method...

For those of us who find it unappealing - there is little change for change in attitude... So markets like Betagro have a real future... And I have noticed that Thais frequent these shops as much or more than Westerners...

Thanks for your post, i couldn't have explained the real issue better than that.

Have you ever walked through a Thai market? At the cooked chicken stall, loads of people are picking them up, putting them back down again, then walking away, they could have been scratching their arse, or picking their nose.

There's no way I ever buy them.

the subject was uncooked meat in tubs

[Anthony5]

I hope that this is the wave of the future for Thailand -- and the concept becomes a sales method to copy-cat...

http://www.betagro.com/index_en.php

It is not OCD to not want to buy meat from an open tub where the meat has literally been fingered by passers by. Rather it is just awareness that the meat in the tub can easily be contaminated and cooking is not a full proof answer. Because the meat must be handled at home in putting the meat in storage or in cooking preparation. Next humans typically do the hand to mouth movements almost as a reflex. The meats in the open air evening - night Thai markets are handled the same way... I cannot imagine why a major supermarket chain copies this method...

For those of us who find it unappealing - there is little change for change in attitude... So markets like Betagro have a real future... And I have noticed that Thais frequent these shops as much or more than Westerners...

Thanks for your post, i couldn't have explained the real issue better than that.

Have you ever walked through a Thai market? At the cooked chicken stall, loads of people are picking them up, putting them back down again, then walking away, they could have been scratching their arse, or picking their nose.

There's no way I ever buy them.

the subject was uncooked meat in tubs

Weren't you the first one who changed the subject to the open markets?

AYJAYDEE

Platinum Member

Posted Yesterday, 01:33

we buy our meat from the stalls in the open air market. it sits there for hours with flies buzzing around. we take it home and cook it.just like its been done for centuries. sounds to me you would be better off staying in your home country. the stress of living here will kill you.

[AYJAYDEE]

Weren't you the first one who changed the subject to the open markets?

AYJAYDEE

Platinum Member

Posted Yesterday, 01:33

we buy our meat from the stalls in the open air market. it sits there for hours with flies buzzing around. we take it home and cook it.just like its been done for centuries. sounds to me you would be better off staying in your home country. the stress of living here will kill you.

the meat is sitting in the open in both situations. same subject.

[NoshowJones]

I hope that this is the wave of the future for Thailand -- and the concept becomes a sales method to copy-cat...

http://www.betagro.com/index_en.php

It is not OCD to not want to buy meat from an open tub where the meat has literally been fingered by passers by. Rather it is just awareness that the meat in the tub can easily be contaminated and cooking is not a full proof answer. Because the meat must be handled at home in putting the meat in storage or in cooking preparation. Next humans typically do the hand to mouth movements almost as a reflex. The meats in the open air evening - night Thai markets are handled the same way... I cannot imagine why a major supermarket chain copies this method...

For those of us who find it unappealing - there is little change for change in attitude... So markets like Betagro have a real future... And I have noticed that Thais frequent these shops as much or more than Westerners...

Thanks for your post, i couldn't have explained the real issue better than that.

Have you ever walked through a Thai market? At the cooked chicken stall, loads of people are picking them up, putting them back down again, then walking away, they could have been scratching their arse, or picking their nose.

There's no way I ever buy them.

the subject was uncooked meat in tubs

May I apologise to the mods and other TV members for going so much off topic, I must make sure I do not do this again, I really am so sorry.

[Seastallion]

Have you ever got ill after buying, cooking and eating the meat from these open tubs?

No I haven't. Buy it all the time. And having come from the meat hygiene industry, I was, and still am a bit surprised that it is allowed.

Having made that admission in the face of a mate who only buys it for his dogs, I guess I have to resort to saying that it is a matter of economy for me.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I would suggest that the rates of stomach/liver/colon cancers in Isaan come from natural water table contamination as opposed to taking meat from food bins in supermarkets or from home cooking.

Of course, I could be wrong, and am willing to see the data on this...............................

You are wrong, it's from parasites.
Liver flukes are the cause from eating raw fish (and raw fish sauce), untreated it leads to cancer.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Udon-Thani-has-highest-rate-of-liver-fluke-cancer--30141691.html

My auntie is currently being treated for it.
It's a massive rural problem.

Thanks for pointing this out AnotherOneAmerican, I had no idea that this was such a problem. You learn something everyday.

However, I still think I am correct in what I have been saying which is, if the meat is cooked properly, then it will be safe for human consumption.

The article that you linked to is interesting, here are a couple of extracts from that article with reference to the parasite. It seems people infected is because:

"...after victims consume raw fish from rice fields and ponds."

And the doctor's point of view is:

"By targeting students, doctors hope youngsters may teach parents to eat only cooked fish, which is safe as intense heat kills the parasite."

That said, I hope they have caught it in time with your aunt and she makes a full recovery.

[AYJAYDEE]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I would suggest that the rates of stomach/liver/colon cancers in Isaan come from natural water table contamination as opposed to taking meat from food bins in supermarkets or from home cooking.

Of course, I could be wrong, and am willing to see the data on this...............................

You are wrong, it's from parasites.

Liver flukes are the cause from eating raw fish (and raw fish sauce), untreated it leads to cancer.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Udon-Thani-has-highest-rate-of-liver-fluke-cancer--30141691.html

My auntie is currently being treated for it.

It's a massive rural problem.

Thanks for pointing this out AnotherOneAmerican, I had no idea that this was such a problem. You learn something everyday.

However, I still think I am correct in what I have been saying which is, if the meat is cooked properly, then it will be safe for human consumption.

The article that you linked to is interesting, here are a couple of extracts from that article with reference to the parasite. It seems people infected is because:

"...after victims consume raw fish from rice fields and ponds."

And the doctor's point of view is:

"By targeting students, doctors hope youngsters may teach parents to eat only cooked fish, which is safe as intense heat kills the parasite."

That said, I hope they have caught it in time with your aunt and she makes a full recovery.

Isaan is #1 in the world for liver cancer. It took 5 out of our family already.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As for coughing and sneezing, - what about the fruit section and the bread section? These products are just as exposed to germs and bacteria and people are always testing the crispiness of bread with their fingers.

Bacteria needs food to live and spread, it's a carnivore, it can't eat bread (needs, milk, meat, fish).

Any sneezes or touching onto bread, 20 minutes later and the bacteria has died and it's safe to eat.

[Anthony5]

As for coughing and sneezing, - what about the fruit section and the bread section? These products are just as exposed to germs and bacteria and people are always testing the crispiness of bread with their fingers.

Bacteria needs food to live and spread, it's a carnivore, it can't eat bread (needs, milk, meat, fish).

Any sneezes or touching onto bread, 20 minutes later and the bacteria has died and it's safe to eat.

At room temperature bacteria on food DOUBLE every 20 minutes

[DaffyDuck]

As for coughing and sneezing, - what about the fruit section and the bread section? These products are just as exposed to germs and bacteria and people are always testing the crispiness of bread with their fingers.

Bacteria needs food to live and spread, it's a carnivore, it can't eat bread (needs, milk, meat, fish).

Any sneezes or touching onto bread, 20 minutes later and the bacteria has died and it's safe to eat.

Correct. Fungus takes care of bread or fruit, but needs humidity to breed and spread.

[Anthony5]

As for coughing and sneezing, - what about the fruit section and the bread section? These products are just as exposed to germs and bacteria and people are always testing the crispiness of bread with their fingers.

Bacteria needs food to live and spread, it's a carnivore, it can't eat bread (needs, milk, meat, fish).

Any sneezes or touching onto bread, 20 minutes later and the bacteria has died and it's safe to eat.

Correct. Fungus takes care of bread or fruit, but needs humidity to breed and spread.

Wrong, bacteria lives from protein. Bread contains protein.

[DaffyDuck]

Only usable when humid.

[naboo]

Bacteria needs food to live and spread, it's a carnivore, it can't eat bread (needs, milk, meat, fish).

Any sneezes or touching onto bread, 20 minutes later and the bacteria has died and it's safe to eat.

That's not true.

Although usually moulds grow on bread, bacteria can also. An example is Serratia marcescens which produces what some in the church a long time ago thought was the blood of Christ on bread.

[petedk]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

As you probably will have noticed already, the major supermarkets in Thailand have a tending to sell their chicken and other meats in big open tubs stationed in the middle of the walking area.

That way it is all day exposed to sneezes, coughs and more of thousand of people passing and scrambling in those tubs. Some may have diseases that are transmittable or bad hygiene.

I for one will never buy any meat out of such a tub, even if it was for free, and would think that in the Western world this would be strictly forbidden.

What do you think about this practice?

The OP is more concerned about diseases passed on from coughing and sneezing than bacteria developing on the meat.

In the Big C supermarket where we shop the "tubs" are so cold that often the meat is frozen to the surface, so I don't think there is a big problem there.

As for coughing and sneezing, - what about the fruit section and the bread section? These products are just as exposed to germs and bacteria and people are always testing the crispiness of bread with their fingers.

I always wash the meat and cook it well. Same for for vegetables and fruit. They are always washed well.

Unfortunately we can't wash bread and cakes, so we make our own

It has been posted a few times already that washing poultry doesn't remove any bacteria, most fruits however normally have a peel which you remove before eating them, and fruits and vegetables can be thoroughly washed as well.

Actually I wasn't only thinking of bacteria. A lot of people sneeze and cough fluids into the air and onto the produce (especially sneezing). They can be washed off.

Some people have very dirty hands - anything from oil to .... whatever. I don't like the idea of someone going to tthe toilet, not washing their hands, and then touching the food. Bacteria or no bacteria..

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Bacteria needs food to live and spread, it's a carnivore, it can't eat bread (needs, milk, meat, fish).

Any sneezes or touching onto bread, 20 minutes later and the bacteria has died and it's safe to eat.

That's not true.

Although usually moulds grow on bread, bacteria can also. An example is Serratia marcescens which produces what some in the church a long time ago thought was the blood of Christ on bread.

Theoretically but,

I haven't found many damp supermarkets, thinking 'blood of Christ' unlikely to be found on bread in a supermarket.

And the guy was talking about people sneezing on bread, which may not be nice, but isn't gonna kill you.

[Chonburiram]

Ah, these open tubs,

the beloved source of your preferred restaurants/ food stalls...

[balo]

Well , we all eat this exposed meat every time we go to our local restaurant. But most of us will never get sick from it.

[DaffyDuck]

Apparently the concept of 'cooking' never crossed the fearmongers' minds ;-)

[Anthony5]

Apparently the concept of 'cooking' never crossed the fearmongers' minds ;-)

Apparently the fact that in country like this the majority of the people have never been educated about how to properly handle meat never crossed the apologists minds.

[AYJAYDEE]

Apparently the concept of 'cooking' never crossed the fearmongers' minds ;-)

Apparently the fact that in country like this the majority of the people have never been educated about how to properly handle meat never crossed the apologists minds.

education never trumped experience. the way they cook meat here kills everything. and they been doin it for hundreds of years.

[Anthony5]

Apparently the concept of 'cooking' never crossed the fearmongers' minds ;-)

Apparently the fact that in country like this the majority of the people have never been educated about how to properly handle meat never crossed the apologists minds.

education never trumped experience. the way they cook meat here kills everything. and they been doin it for hundreds of years.

They must been doing a good job for the past 100 years then with a life expectancy almost 30% lower than the rest of the world.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/country-health-profile/thailand

[recom273]

Have you ever got ill after buying, cooking and eating the meat from these open tubs?

No not sick, but - I do buy the pre-pack pork mince to make breakfast patties which presumably came from the tubs at one stage.

The tubs are of frozen meat, right ?

Then it gets put in the fridge and it goes green within a day.

Or

The wife puts it back in the freezer ..

Is there something wrong there ? Just for clarification, wouldn't it be illegal in the UK for a shop to sell defrosting meat ?

I find all the time pre-packed / tub meat goes rotten within a day, be it chicken breasts, pork mince, pork loin - I usually cook it as soon as i get home and use it as sandwich fillings.

Edited December 22, 2014 by recom273

[DaffyDuck]

They must been doing a good job for the past 100 years then with a life expectancy almost 30% lower than the rest of the world.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/country-health-profile/thailand

You really ought to look up 'cognitive dissonance', as it makes you look more and more like a fool. Furthermore, a cursory perusal of Dunning-Kruger couldn't hurt either.