IS has executed 100 foreigners trying to quit: report

[transam]

They can reap what they sew................

[ravip]

Question remains to ask, - would those countries the executed SOB's came from have the guts to do the same?

Even if they had the guts, how could they answer to the "humanitarians"?

Terrorists are well protected and have equal rights, dont they?

[OMGImInPattaya]

They can reap what they sew................

...and they can wear it too.

Edited December 26, 2014 by OMGImInPattaya

[H1w4yR1da]

Do they still get the 72 virgins if they are topped by their own?

it's 72 raisins according to some apologists, so they might be feeling a bit short changed

The 72 virgins bit is so Islam, isn't it? Normal guys would probably go for 72 Playboy bunnies or 72 coyote dancers. But not Islamists, oh no! They want kiddies. So typical of the religion.

[H1w4yR1da]

Very few TV topics bring people together. It must be Christmas.

With the exception of the poster Seastallion (whose post actually made some sense for the first tine ever) the board's resident apologists for Islam are noticeable by their absence.

[tartempion]

It's hard to kill the bad guys, when they can hide so effectively, and blend in with locals. Imagine coming in to an ISIS-held area with guns drawn. Except for the guys shooting at you, how would you know who to kill? They dress the same as civilians, sometimes even dressing as women. When cornered, they can simply say, "I'm a civilian, thank you for liberating us!" How are you, as a military man, going to know who's lying and who's not? It's nigh impossible. Bombing convoys from the air is about as good targets as the good guys are going to get, but ISIS knows that, so they don't travel in convoys. 2nd best is knowing where the bad guys gather, but bombing there is always a chance of killing women and children. Even children as young as 11 are given guns and told to shoot westerners. If you see a group of children with guns, even if they're aimed at you, are you going to mow 'em down? Few easy answers, in such a God-forsaken miserable part of the world.

Reminds me of Arnaud Amaury, The abbot of Cistaux commanding Pope Innocentius III army to exterminate the Cathar heretics at the siege of Beziers(july 1209) He is said to have told his soldiers who asked how to distinguish heretics from Catholics "Kill them all, God Will recognise his own"

In his record to the pope all inhabitants (20.000) were killed.

Edited December 26, 2014 by tartempion

[Choctastic]

What a crock.

'An activist opposed to both IS and the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who is well-known to the British business broadsheet, said he had "verified 100 executions" of foreign IS fighters trying to leave the jihadist group's de facto capital.'

An 'activist' who is opposed to IS would not last 5 minutes, if he was really 'active'.

One person's word is not verification of anything.

100 is a conveniently nice round figure. Easy for the spellbound to take in. Not one 'foreign fighter' is named. He must have verified their identities with a Ouija Board.

So 'well known' to the newspaper that they provide no supporting information about anything else he has revealed.

It gets worse... 'In total, between 30 and 50 Britons want to return but fear they face jail, according to researchers at the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation at King's College London, which had been contacted by one of the jihadists speaking on their behalf.'

Again, no names and how many posters have ever heard of 'the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation'? I'll bet no-one. Why would a sympathetic 'jihadist' call this group and not attempt to contact the security services or the media? He has this bombshell information yet calls a research outfit at a University?

'According to the British press in October, five Britons, three French, two Germans and two Belgians wanted to return home'

It's Christmas. They forgot to add... '4 calling birds, 3 French hens and 2 turtle doves'.

The trouble with all these stories is no hard evidence is ever presented and as such they should be treated with a pinch of salt. Are there really moles inside IS feeding vital information to the world's press or could the source of all this 'atrocity porn' we are being fed, in fact be a PR agency?

http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

'...the government of Kuwait funded as many as 20 PR, law and lobby firms in its campaign to mobilize US opinion and force against Hussein'

and

"Hill & Knowlton ... has assumed a role in world affairs unprecedented for a PR firm. H&K has employed a stunning variety of opinion-forming devices and techniques to help keep US opinion on the side of the Kuwaitis. ... The techniques range from full-scale press conferences showing torture and other abuses by the Iraqis to the distribution of tens of thousands of 'Free Kuwait' T-shirts and bumper stickers at college campuses across the US."

Buyer beware.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Choctastic

[Credo]

You want names? OK 97 went by Mohammad and there were 2 Husseins and 1 Ali.

[NeverSure]

500 (more than) killed in 2000 bombing raids doesn't sound a very good average and not very cost effective.

The 'one bullet each' method of the IS would be a far more efficient way of doing things.

I've often thought that, the bombing might of the USAF + Aussies and others and IS hasn't been decimated yet? What's the hold up? After all they're just a rag-tag bunch of rebels but basic training and we super-powers can't wipe them off the face of the Earth?

They often hide among civilians and they don't wear uniforms. This is the classic guerrilla army that is all but impossible to defeat if the opposition abides by rules of war. IMHO is this what went wrong in N. Korea, 'Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now, in WWII the allies bombed the crap out of Germany 24/7 and nuked Japan without regard for civilians. That was before these new rules of engagement and AFAIK it was the last war the West won outright. Outright to the point of surrender of the enemy.

I don't know the answer, but I know of no important engagement in history where a guerilla army was defeated on its own soil. WWII wasn't guerillas; the armies wore uniforms and could be identified by ground troops.

[otherstuff1957]

This is not really surprising. IS has two aspects: there is the "global jihadist" movement, with thousands of young Muslims joining them from all around the world. These global jihadists are internet savvy and are the ones using social media to recruit more men and women to join their cause. Then there are the "local jihadists" who are fighting against anyone who isn't a hardcore Sunni Muslim Arab. This means that they are against the Turks, Kurds, Yazidis, Shias, moderate Muslims of all sects, Alawites, Druzes, Jews and Christians.

The areas currently controlled by IS are Sunni Arab majority areas. The areas around them are mostly inhabited by the groups listed above. Unlrss the engage in large-scale ethnic cleansing, there is really no place left for them to expand to. The international recruits are probably getting frustrated by the conflict between their vision of a "global jihad" and IS's getting bogged down in local conflicts.

[Choctastic]

You want names? OK 97 went by Mohammad and there were 2 Husseins and 1 Ali.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[TSF]

500 (more than) killed in 2000 bombing raids doesn't sound a very good average and not very cost effective.

The 'one bullet each' method of the IS would be a far more efficient way of doing things.

I've often thought that, the bombing might of the USAF + Aussies and others and IS hasn't been decimated yet? What's the hold up? After all they're just a rag-tag bunch of rebels but basic training and we super-powers can't wipe them off the face of the Earth?

They often hide among civilians and they don't wear uniforms. This is the classic guerrilla army that is all but impossible to defeat if the opposition abides by rules of war. IMHO is this what went wrong in N. Korea, 'Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now, in WWII the allies bombed the crap out of Germany 24/7 and nuked Japan without regard for civilians. That was before these new rules of engagement and AFAIK it was the last war the West won outright. Outright to the point of surrender of the enemy.

I don't know the answer, but I know of no important engagement in history where a guerilla army was defeated on its own soil. WWII wasn't guerillas; the armies wore uniforms and could be identified by ground troops.

Very true, I've often thought about these points myself. I believe if we Allies were to fight WWII again, according to "these new rules of engagement" then we would lose.

[Credo]

Very true, I've often thought about these points myself. I believe if we Allies were to fight WWII again, according to "these new rules of engagement" then we would lose.

If both sides would have followed the rules back then, we might still be fighting the war.

[Neurath]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

500 (more than) killed in 2000 bombing raids doesn't sound a very good average and not very cost effective.

The 'one bullet each' method of the IS would be a far more efficient way of doing things.

I've often thought that, the bombing might of the USAF + Aussies and others and IS hasn't been decimated yet? What's the hold up? After all they're just a rag-tag bunch of rebels but basic training and we super-powers can't wipe them off the face of the Earth?

They often hide among civilians and they don't wear uniforms. This is the classic guerrilla army that is all but impossible to defeat if the opposition abides by rules of war. IMHO is this what went wrong in N. Korea, 'Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now, in WWII the allies bombed the crap out of Germany 24/7 and nuked Japan without regard for civilians. That was before these new rules of engagement and AFAIK it was the last war the West won outright. Outright to the point of surrender of the enemy.

I don't know the answer, but I know of no important engagement in history where a guerilla army was defeated on its own soil. WWII wasn't guerillas; the armies wore uniforms and could be identified by ground troops.

Yeah, this is what Saddam Hussein thought with regard to Kurds. He'd learnt his lesson from what went wrong in N Korea, and 'Nam.

[CapeCobra]

If you don't like unpopular, radical thought experiments, skip this one.

We have a problem with ISIS atrocities. We can't understand why Western raised kids want to join the IS scum and die a pathetic death in a war they cannot win. We are speechless seeing staged or real beheadings going viral. We can't cope with the 72 virgin myth motivating muslims to blow themselves up for collateral damage.

Young boys fighting in Vietnam had to use other drugs to sacrifice their lives for something of value. They died for their country, their platoon, their friends, but not for Jesus.

The incredible cruelty of Christians towards so-called heretics in the last 1800 years are well known.

The difference is that, throughout history, the Church controlled Christians by fear. You do good here to suffer less in purgatory. Sex, the strongest force known to man, was damned.

Mohammad, following the same vicious god of the Old Testament, was a connoisseur of young flesh and had no problems with carnal exercise. No wonder, the Koran promises a paradise full of pleasure. Contrary to that idea, Christians expect a paradise of most boring features.

My copy of the Koran gives a few hints, but, it was famous commentators such as Al-Suyuti in 15 something that is still read today. His paradise would interest many TV readers:

"Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [ie Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas."

Wow! No Viagra required? Don't ask me what the girls think about such a paradise.


I think it was Carl Hagenbeck who came up with the revolutionary animals training concept: reward instead of fear.

Of course, IS won't tell potential suicide bombers that the same rewards are given to every Muslim. And even worse, that modern scholarship realizing translation errors, only promise 72 white raisins in an eternal happy hour environment.

Christian PR is lacking. It's too late for Virgin Mary or the neutered angels to develop any kind of sex appeal. Mary Magdalene can't do the job all by herself.

We have to find convincing arguments why stupid, poor, hopeless people should go for the Western paradise on Earth. We gave social media to these people. Why do we react shock-shelled when they use them? Where is an international, intelligent counter-attack?

[bendejo]

Yow! In a place where the women outnumber the men 70 to 1 things are bound to go bad at some point. So let's see, how many Muslim men have died since the the 7th century? Multiply that by 70 and add them together. Sounds like paradise is pretty crowded, but it just keeps getting bigger and that's why the universe is expanding.

And then there's all these punters walking around with permanent erections and the women are all laughing at them and the men wind up preferring the company of each other, just like back on Earth.

How can it be paradise if you can't get spare ribs there?

What does the Koran say about cable TV in paradise -- basic or premium?

[wooloomooloo]

Glad to know that they're killing each other.

[CapeCobra]

Yow! In a place where the women outnumber the men 70 to 1 things are bound to go bad at some point. So let's see, how many Muslim men have died since the the 7th century? Multiply that by 70 and add them together. Sounds like paradise is pretty crowded, but it just keeps getting bigger and that's why the universe is expanding.

And then there's all these punters walking around with permanent erections and the women are all laughing at them and the men wind up preferring the company of each other, just like back on Earth.

How can it be paradise if you can't get spare ribs there?

What does the Koran say about cable TV in paradise -- basic or premium?

You got the message. Imagine a cartoon series about Muslim paradise. Priapism and its effects on daily routines while the girls sing "Ev'ry cut is the deepest". Youtube is full of jokes about Christian paradise being dull and boring. Nothing like that in the other department.

Take look at a girl's fate:

"You be a good little girl, you must always wear a burka, you must always wear a veil. You may not go to school, you may not get a job, you may not learn to read, you may not vote, drive, dance, play games or listen to music. You must live a life of absolute humility and celibacy. Then when you die you will go to heaven...

....where you will be raped by evil terrorists and be their sex slave for the rest of eternity."

[simple1]

<snip>

I know of no important engagement in history where a guerilla army was defeated on its own soil. WWII wasn't guerillas; the armies wore uniforms and could be identified by ground troops.

Depends upon your definition of 'important engagement in history', but two defeats immediately come to mind i.e. Shining Path in Peru and the insurgency in British Malaya.

Although I'm unsure if ISIS can come under the classic definition of a 'guerilla army' you and others may like to do some research on strategy and tactics utilised in the defeat of insurgencies. Try reviewing the content that is presented when doing a Google search "insurgency defeats rand corporation"

[boomerangutang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yow! In a place where the women outnumber the men 70 to 1 things are bound to go bad at some point. So let's see, how many Muslim men have died since the the 7th century? Multiply that by 70 and add them together. Sounds like paradise is pretty crowded, but it just keeps getting bigger and that's why the universe is expanding.
And then there's all these punters walking around with permanent erections and the women are all laughing at them and the men wind up preferring the company of each other, just like back on Earth.
How can it be paradise if you can't get spare ribs there?

What does the Koran say about cable TV in paradise -- basic or premium?

You got the message. Imagine a cartoon series about Muslim paradise. Priapism and its effects on daily routines while the girls sing "Ev'ry cut is the deepest". Youtube is full of jokes about Christian paradise being dull and boring. Nothing like that in the other department.

Take look at a girl's fate:
"You be a good little girl, you must always wear a burka, you must always wear a veil. You may not go to school, you may not get a job, you may not learn to read, you may not vote, drive, dance, play games or listen to music. You must live a life of absolute humility and celibacy. Then when you die you will go to heaven...

....where you will be raped by evil terrorists and be their sex slave for the rest of eternity."

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the 72 doe-eyed virgins (for each Muslim martyr) come from Earth. I think they are celestial virgins produced by the Almighty Allah. He must be busy in His virgin factory. Plus, after the blood-splattered martyr goes through the 72, they're no longer virgins. What does he do then, petition Allah for another batch? What if one is feisty. Can he say to Allah, "hey Allah Akbar, I wanna trade this one in, she talks back, and doesn't do exactly what I tell her to do."

[Morch]

500 (more than) killed in 2000 bombing raids doesn't sound a very good average and not very cost effective.

The 'one bullet each' method of the IS would be a far more efficient way of doing things.

Guess some would prefer carpet bombing followed by a good whine about civilian casualties. Or "boots on the ground", adding coalition casualties to the above.

Limiting intervention to air strikes, while trying to avoid hitting innocents is tricky, time consuming and expensive.

There are no magic solutions.

[TSF]

500 (more than) killed in 2000 bombing raids doesn't sound a very good average and not very cost effective.

The 'one bullet each' method of the IS would be a far more efficient way of doing things.

Guess some would prefer carpet bombing followed by a good whine about civilian casualties.

Or "boots on the ground", adding coalition casualties to the above.

Limiting intervention to air strikes, while trying to avoid hitting innocents is tricky, time consuming and expensive.

There are no magic solutions.

Whatever it takes to exterminate all the brutes. And when that's done move the entire operation over to Nigeria and hunt down Boko Haram and exterminate all those brutes as well. And if coalition forces are so nervous about receiving casualties then it's time to start forming mercenary forces to do the dirty work for us.

[JockPieandBeans]

<snip>

I know of no important engagement in history where a guerilla army was defeated on its own soil. WWII wasn't guerillas; the armies wore uniforms and could be identified by ground troops.

Depends upon your definition of 'important engagement in history', but two defeats immediately come to mind i.e. Shining Path in Peru and the insurgency in British Malaya.

Although I'm unsure if ISIS can come under the classic definition of a 'guerilla army' you and others may like to do some research on strategy and tactics utilised in the defeat of insurgencies. Try reviewing the content that is presented when doing a Google search "insurgency defeats rand corporation"

The British " Victory " in Malaya came about, not through conventional tactics, but through a sustained " Hearts and Minds " Campaign.

Somehow, I do not think a " Hearts and Minds " Campaign will work against the latest batch of Islamic lunatics.

[Morch]

What a crock.

'An activist opposed to both IS and the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who is well-known to the British business broadsheet, said he had "verified 100 executions" of foreign IS fighters trying to leave the jihadist group's de facto capital.'

An 'activist' who is opposed to IS would not last 5 minutes, if he was really 'active'.

One person's word is not verification of anything.

100 is a conveniently nice round figure. Easy for the spellbound to take in. Not one 'foreign fighter' is named. He must have verified their identities with a Ouija Board.

So 'well known' to the newspaper that they provide no supporting information about anything else he has revealed.

It gets worse... 'In total, between 30 and 50 Britons want to return but fear they face jail, according to researchers at the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation at King's College London, which had been contacted by one of the jihadists speaking on their behalf.'

Again, no names and how many posters have ever heard of 'the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation'? I'll bet no-one. Why would a sympathetic 'jihadist' call this group and not attempt to contact the security services or the media? He has this bombshell information yet calls a research outfit at a University?

'According to the British press in October, five Britons, three French, two Germans and two Belgians wanted to return home'

It's Christmas. They forgot to add... '4 calling birds, 3 French hens and 2 turtle doves'.

The trouble with all these stories is no hard evidence is ever presented and as such they should be treated with a pinch of salt. Are there really moles inside IS feeding vital information to the world's press or could the source of all this 'atrocity porn' we are being fed, in fact be a PR agency?

http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

'...the government of Kuwait funded as many as 20 PR, law and lobby firms in its campaign to mobilize US opinion and force against Hussein'

and

"Hill & Knowlton ... has assumed a role in world affairs unprecedented for a PR firm. H&K has employed a stunning variety of opinion-forming devices and techniques to help keep US opinion on the side of the Kuwaitis. ... The techniques range from full-scale press conferences showing torture and other abuses by the Iraqis to the distribution of tens of thousands of 'Free Kuwait' T-shirts and bumper stickers at college campuses across the US."

Buyer beware.

Not discounting the possibility that this report is inaccurate, made up, or even constitutes propaganda. That said, IS applying harsh measures on their own would not be a huge surprise.

Not having read the original story (registration required on the Financial Times website, article is "Isis morale falls as momentum slows and casualties mount", for those interested) - can't exactly say if the OP's version is the same.

Some of the objections raised are factitious - not sure if there was a claim made that said activist actually resides in IS held territory (which, granted, could make the report less compelling) and there are people resisting all sorts of things in the face of grave odds. It does not necessarily have to be public activism as often seen in the West. While anonymous sources are less credible, can hardly imagine many locals coming forward to speak against IS with full knowledge their name will be all over the news.

Names of reportedly executed people? Don't recall many newspapers actually printing full casualty lists in other cases - does it make every report not including full details a hoax? Guessing it wouldn't stop there as well - "these could be made up names blah blah blah".

ICSR is a relatively new think-tank, which for some reason, I seem to recall being discussed on a previous topic (but could be mixing my forums). Anyway, not much different than similar efforts elsewhere - http://icsr.info/ or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Centre_for_the_Study_of_Radicalisation_and_Political_Violence.

[Morch]

500 (more than) killed in 2000 bombing raids doesn't sound a very good average and not very cost effective.

The 'one bullet each' method of the IS would be a far more efficient way of doing things.

Guess some would prefer carpet bombing followed by a good whine about civilian casualties.

Or "boots on the ground", adding coalition casualties to the above.

Limiting intervention to air strikes, while trying to avoid hitting innocents is tricky, time consuming and expensive.

There are no magic solutions.

Whatever it takes to exterminate all the brutes. And when that's done move the entire operation over to Nigeria and hunt down Boko Haram and exterminate all those brutes as well. And if coalition forces are so nervous about receiving casualties then it's time to start forming mercenary forces to do the dirty work for us.

What happens to the civilians under this grand strategy? What happens to the mercenaries (armed to the teeth) once the fighting is done?

[englishoak]

You reap what you sow....

[TSF]

500 (more than) killed in 2000 bombing raids doesn't sound a very good average and not very cost effective.

The 'one bullet each' method of the IS would be a far more efficient way of doing things.

Guess some would prefer carpet bombing followed by a good whine about civilian casualties.

Or "boots on the ground", adding coalition casualties to the above.

Limiting intervention to air strikes, while trying to avoid hitting innocents is tricky, time consuming and expensive.

There are no magic solutions.

Whatever it takes to exterminate all the brutes. And when that's done move the entire operation over to Nigeria and hunt down Boko Haram and exterminate all those brutes as well. And if coalition forces are so nervous about receiving casualties then it's time to start forming mercenary forces to do the dirty work for us.

What happens to the civilians under this grand strategy? What happens to the mercenaries (armed to the teeth) once the fighting is done?

Unfortunately civilians casualties happen in every form of conflict, there's no way to stop it happening. And the mercs - after they have exterminated all the brutes - get paid off and disband.

[Morch]

Guess some would prefer carpet bombing followed by a good whine about civilian casualties.

Or "boots on the ground", adding coalition casualties to the above.

Limiting intervention to air strikes, while trying to avoid hitting innocents is tricky, time consuming and expensive.

There are no magic solutions.

Whatever it takes to exterminate all the brutes. And when that's done move the entire operation over to Nigeria and hunt down Boko Haram and exterminate all those brutes as well. And if coalition forces are so nervous about receiving casualties then it's time to start forming mercenary forces to do the dirty work for us.

What happens to the civilians under this grand strategy? What happens to the mercenaries (armed to the teeth) once the fighting is done?

Unfortunately civilians casualties happen in every form of conflict, there's no way to stop it happening. And the mercs - after they have exterminated all the brutes - get paid off and disband.

There is a difference between accepting the fact that civilian casualties are usually unavoidable and embracing a strategy which condones wholesale killing of civilians. If one is not too bothered about civilians to begin with, what is, then, the real justification in fighting the likes of IS and Boko Haram?

Mercenaries have this annoying habit of not always being satisfied with getting paid of and disbanding. Next thing we'll need mercenaries to fight the ex-mercenaries and so on. Ages and places where warlords and private armies were (are) common are not notable for being the best.

[TSF]

@Morch:

Mike Hoare's 5 Commando mercs very effectively dealt with the Simba uprising in the Congo, after which they were paid off and disbanded. Ever since hearing of the Boko Haram capturing those 200 school girls I been thinking...where are the mercs? Back in the 50s/60s/70s a mercenary force would have been formed to hunt out and exterminate Boko Haram and rescue those school girls. The Nigerian military appear to be hopeless in preventing Boko Haram attacks, no foreign military is going to intervene, so as far as I can see the only solution is for a merc force to be formed.

Now instead on nit-picking holes in what I say how about proposing a solution yourself to a gravely serious problem that is not going to go away by itself and will only grow stronger as each day passes.

[bendejo]

Why would a sympathetic 'jihadist' call this group and not attempt to contact the security services or the media?

When talking about this ilk, any "why would...?" questions are moot. You may have noticed things like logic and rationality, which these kind of questions reach for, are supplanted by faith, "god's will," and the words of the last person who spoke to them. And of course there's the zeal of youth and the failure to think things through, which I think all of us have been through that at some point (ahem!).

"Yo, bro, I'm going to join the fight and when we win the whole world will be like Pakistan!"

ummmmmmmmmmmmm..................