AirAsia flight QZ8501 from Indonesia to Singapore missing

[MrWorldwide]

So the same thing once again.

No signals from MH370 nor from QZ8501 have/has been detected.

Looks very bad.

Win

The difference is that the first disappeared back in March, in clear weather conditions and with little warning from the pilot, The second disappeared yesterday in bad weather and the pilot did contact ATC - drawing parallels with MH370 seems premature to my way of thinking. Until they find debris that is definitely from this aircraft its all speculation.

[White Christmas13]

I wonder where this, and the other planes, had their last mechanical maintenance done?

The date has been given on the 1st couple of pages of this thread. Some time in mid November if I remember correctly.

It was on the 14th of November 2014 just a month ago

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I understand that the distance between Surabaya and Singapore is 870 miles, as the crow flies. What sense does it make to search in an area 700 miles from the last known position of the plane?

It doesn't. You start from last known position of contact, or radar last location and track back to lost position at contact. I am totally lost as to why there is no radar position, when the whole area has tremendous radar tracking.

As when MH370 flew over Butterworth Malaysian air force base , which has a squadron of fighters station there, no one was looking at the radar at the time, they found out about it 3 days after the event , hence the wild goose chase in South China sea

[mjnaus]

Apparently the found debris does not belong to the missing plane (as just reported by Channel Asia News)

[White Christmas13]

I don't want to comment just make up your own mind

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/aviation-expert-asks-why-airasia-transmitter-failed-to-activate-on-qz8501/story-fnizu68q-1227169203618

[Maestro]

AirAsia QZ8501: 'Too early to confirm sightings as plane debris'

Read more: http://m.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30621672

[Maestro]

AN object spotted during a sea search for an AirAsia plane wasn’t from the aircraft, Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla says.

Read more: http://mobile.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/aviation-expert-asks-why-airasia-transmitter-failed-to-activate-on-qz8501/story-fnizu68q-1227169203618

[draftvader]

Australia managed to detect 2 signal today. The first one comes from a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon, while the second one is still unconfirmed and detected around Bangka Belitung

Reddit

Very interesting indeed. Speculation? Knowledge on PLBs on planes (i.e. activation, etc)?

---UPDATE---

Nothing found in the 2nd location

Edited December 29, 2014 by draftvader

[F430murci]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

Edited December 29, 2014 by F430murci

[Mosha]

Fox News, how dumb can you get? An A320 has 2 engines. They are posting images of an A380!

[HeijoshinCool]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

[Asiantravel]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

" Is this bad equipment or operator issues? "

but in the MH370 incident you were not supportive of airlines engaging in expenditure involving real-time satellite coverage in the cockpit.

Do you still hold the same position?

[jpinx]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

Before you place too much trust in it - check the technical spec carefully. Most need a clear view of the sky and do not work underwater, even if they are waterproof.

[EyesWideOpen]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

Have to agree with you. A friend of mine used to do 747 training for Korean Air Line pilots . He told me if I knew

what happens in the cockpit, I would never ever set foot in a KAL plane. Not sure about training for AirAsia pilots.

I may be biased, but I personally love the sound of a British accent coming over the intercom from the pilot....

AF 447 showed the abysmal level of skill for current pilots in the face of an unusual problem, as the French pilots were unable to control the plane when the autopilot shut off. Pilot training needs to get back to the basics of being able

to control the plane in unusual attitudes, rather than how to turn on the autopilot in the air and the auto throttle on landing.

Edited December 29, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[jpinx]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

Have to agree with you. A friend of mine used to do 747 training for Korean Air Line pilots . He told me if I knew

what happens in the cockpit, I would never ever set foot in a KAL plane. Not sure about training for AirAsia pilots.

I may be biased, but I personally love the sound of a British accent coming over the intercom from the pilot....

AF 447 showed the abysmal level of skill for current pilots in the face of an unusual problem, as the French pilots were unable to control the plane when the autopilot shut off. Pilot training needs to get back to the basics of being able

to control the plane in unusual attitudes, rather than how to turn on the autopilot in the air and the auto throttle on landing.

The same problem was what caused the San Francisco crash

[F430murci]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

" Is this bad equipment or operator issues? "

but in the MH370 incident you were not supportive of airlines engaging in expenditure involving real-time satellite coverage in the cockpit.

Do you still hold the same position?

Better pilot and ATC training before the plane hits the surface is more important than tracking it after it plunges into the ocean.

First off, the government would have to allocate bandwidth, most of which is now beiing utilized by or allocated to entertainment, telecommunications and military. Government agencies keep reducing aviation bands to allocate those bands for these uses. Until governmenta prioritizes bandwidth, there isn't sufficient channels for data telemetry.

Tracking devices are not the cure all here. Finding wreckage in the ocean is painstaking time consuming process. Debris moves with current, sometimes very rapidly. It takes time to get proper assets such as choppers and boats with appropriate equipment to detect functioning beacons just beneath the surface. Second tracking devices would still put searchers at last known coordinates, subject to drift and etc., which should not be much different than properly trained ATC with proper equipment and searches.

The solution is better trained pilots and ATC to prevent the crash, not equipment to locate bodies and scrap after incompetency caused the crash.

[ozyjon]

A story by Dan Diamonds for Forbes put's it all in good perspective,, a good read.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2014/12/27/airasia-flight-disappears-on-flight-from-indonesia-to-singapore/

A Quote from the story that made me think,,, plane number 3 ?

AirAsia is a private airline based in Malaysia, and the country already has suffered two major aviation catastrophes this year.

In March 2014, Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 lost contact with air traffic control when it was about several hundred miles north of Singapore. Rescuers still have been unable to find any traces of flight MH370, or its 239 passengers and crew, despite an unprecedented search effort.

In April 2014, or one month after MH370 went missing, AirAsia’s CEO was forced to apologize after the company’s in-flight magazine suggested that AirAsia’s own well-trained pilots would never lose a plane.

I hope they are found soon on an island all safe waiting to be resqued, i have flown with them many times, it could have been me.

[Maestro]

The increased altitude request was denied because there was another plane flying at that height, he said.

Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/29/world/asia/airasia-missing-plane/index.html

I wonder if that other plane had climbed to that height to avoid the clouds and what flight it was. Perhaps UAE409 flying at 36,000 feet?

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-21260-0-06393000-1419841196.jpg

[F430murci]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

My father started out in first 727 class for Eastern Airlines and finished his career as a Pilot/Flex instructor for FedEx on MD11/10, and 7X7s. He still instructs sim while in retirement and works with a lot of overseas pilots. He indicated after 214 that SE Asia pilots were not properly trained and had very poor command of planes once auto pilot disengaged.

Then we have this whole pay to fly scenario in that region to hold costs down. This stuff just breeds incompetency. The vast majority if time, things will be okay as a 13 year old could fly these planes under normal circumstances and with functioning electronics. I have many hours in the 727, DC10 and MD11 full motion, full day time vision Redifusion simulators. No sweat to fly . . ., but on those rare occurrences when things go wrong we see stuff like this.

[steven100]

This is becoming more intriguing by the hour ...

Aljazeera just reported investigators are looking into luggage aboard the missing aircraft.

Was there an issue with something that was loaded onto QZ8501 ?

MH370 missing .. ? now QZ8501 missing .. ? the pilot changed direction and then ceased to communicate with aircraft control tower. Why did the pilot stop communicating .. ?

Also, indonesian authorities are expanding the search area dramatically ...

[F430murci]

This is becoming more intriguing by the hour ...

Aljazeera just reported investigators are looking into luggage aboard the missing aircraft.

Was there an issue with something that was loaded onto QZ8501 ?

MH370 missing .. ? now QZ8501 missing .. ? the pilot changed direction and then ceased to communicate with aircraft control tower. Why did the pilot stop communicating .. ?

Also, indonesian authorities are expanding the search area dramatically ...

Search area would be expanded due to considerable drift due to currents over this length of time.

[paz]

Then we have this whole pay to fly scenario in that region to hold costs down.

Agree with you however Air Asia doesn't do pay to fly.

[sunshine51]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

Have to agree with you. A friend of mine used to do 747 training for Korean Air Line pilots . He told me if I knew

what happens in the cockpit, I would never ever set foot in a KAL plane. Not sure about training for AirAsia pilots.

I may be biased, but I personally love the sound of a British accent coming over the intercom from the pilot....

AF 447 showed the abysmal level of skill for current pilots in the face of an unusual problem, as the French pilots were unable to control the plane when the autopilot shut off. Pilot training needs to get back to the basics of being able

to control the plane in unusual attitudes, rather than how to turn on the autopilot in the air and the auto throttle on landing.

"Unusual Attitudes"...A good friend of mine was a P-3C pilot back in the 70's. During his inflight training

one of the scenarios was "unusual attitudes"...whereas the aircraft was put into some attitude not

considered "normal". Read into that whatever you want but the observers that any P-3 carries would

detest these training manouvers...flat spins, pitches, rolls, steep banks, dives etc...etc. With a very

experienced pilot aboard (check pilot) the trainee pilot would do his damndest to recover the aircraft

to straight & level flight. Needless to say a huge chunk of airspace would be blocked off to facilitate

these manouvers over water and from what me old friend said...never was a P-3 lost during these

training manouvers. That said...civilian pilots will most probably never have the experience as military

pilots get for this type of training...one can always walk away from a simulator can't they. And not

all ex-military pilots who have become civilian pilots have ever done the unusual attitude flights...

except perhaps, in a simulator

Just FWIW.

[HaruHaru]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

Hate to tell you but the deadliest single-aircraft accident in history was caused by Japan Airlines which killed 505 people. It was also the deadliest aviation accident to occur on Japanese soil and the second-deadliest 747 air disaster and deadliest accident behind the 1977 Tenerife airport disaster.

Japan Airlines Flight 123 Accidents

[F430murci]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

Hate to tell you but the deadliest single-aircraft accident in history was caused by Japan Airlines which killed 505 people. It was also the deadliest aviation accident to occur on Japanese soil and the second-deadliest 747 air disaster and deadliest accident behind the 1977 Tenerife airport disaster.

Japan Airlines Flight 123 Accidents

Not to debate whose best, but come on! That plane did not crash due to pilot error. That plane sustained a tail strike earlier and had an improper repair causing tail to tear away during flight. All hydraulic fluid drained out and pilots had no control over any control surfaces. If anything, pilots did a decent job keeping that mess in the air as long as they did. That was also 37 years ago.

[Qent]

No trace of AirAsia plane, second day's search futile

No significant sign has been found after the second day's search for the missing AirAsia flight QZ8501 Monday, a senior official of Indonesia's search and rescue agency said while another official dismally said the plane might well be at the bottom of the sea.

All efforts to locate the missing plane would continue in the coming days, a senior official of the Indonesian Search and Rescue Agency, said on the sidelines of a teleconference with Indonesian President Joko Widodo.

Asked on findings of alleged debris of QZ8501 near the Nangka island in the Java Sea by an Australian AP-3C Orion plane and spotting of an oil slick and debris off the eastern Belitung island, Sutono said there has been no credible evidence to confirm those reports.

More:

http://sakshipost.com/index.php/news/international/51076-no-trace-of-airasia-plane,-second-day-s-search-futile.html?psource=Home-Category

[EyesWideOpen]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

Hate to tell you but the deadliest single-aircraft accident in history was caused by Japan Airlines which killed 505 people. It was also the deadliest aviation accident to occur on Japanese soil and the second-deadliest 747 air disaster and deadliest accident behind the 1977 Tenerife airport disaster.

Japan Airlines Flight 123 Accidents

Not to debate whose best, but come on! That plane did not crash due to pilot error. That plane sustained a tail strike earlier and had an improper repair causing tail to tear away during flight. All hydraulic fluid drained out and pilots had no control over any control surfaces. If anything, pilots did a decent job keeping that mess in the air as long as they did. That was also 37 years ago.

Correct. As I recall, after the plane had sustained a tail strike, Boeing sent over engineers to fix the damage.

The repair was not done properly, and the tail cone blew off in flight. So had nothing to do with the airline

itself. With no control surfaces, the Japanese pilots kept the plane in the air for 32 minutes. In the simulator

afterwards, nobody was able to match that time......

Also in the initial response to the crash, the Japanese Self Defence forces turned down assistance from the US

SAR resources, so they were late to the crash site. Turns out there were 4 survivors, but according to

the testimony from them, more people had died from shock and the cold before the rescuers showed up..........

Edited December 29, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[F430murci]

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

Hate to tell you but the deadliest single-aircraft accident in history was caused by Japan Airlines which killed 505 people. It was also the deadliest aviation accident to occur on Japanese soil and the second-deadliest 747 air disaster and deadliest accident behind the 1977 Tenerife airport disaster.

Japan Airlines Flight 123 Accidents

Not to debate whose best, but come on! That plane did not crash due to pilot error. That plane sustained a tail strike earlier and had an improper repair causing tail to tear away during flight. All hydraulic fluid drained out and pilots had no control over any control surfaces. If anything, pilots did a decent job keeping that mess in the air as long as they did. That was also 37 years ago.

Correct. As I recall, after the plane had sustained a tail strike, Boeing sent over engineers to fix the damage.

The repair was not done properly, and the tail cone blew off in flight. So had nothing to do with the airline

itself.

Not just the tail cone, but also took out the vertical stabilizer.

Edited December 29, 2014 by F430murci

[EyesWideOpen]

Hate to tell you but the deadliest single-aircraft accident in history was caused by Japan Airlines which killed 505 people. It was also the deadliest aviation accident to occur on Japanese soil and the second-deadliest 747 air disaster and deadliest accident behind the 1977 Tenerife airport disaster.

Japan Airlines Flight 123 Accidents

Not to debate whose best, but come on! That plane did not crash due to pilot error. That plane sustained a tail strike earlier and had an improper repair causing tail to tear away during flight. All hydraulic fluid drained out and pilots had no control over any control surfaces. If anything, pilots did a decent job keeping that mess in the air as long as they did. That was also 37 years ago.

Correct. As I recall, after the plane had sustained a tail strike, Boeing sent over engineers to fix the damage.

The repair was not done properly, and the tail cone blew off in flight. So had nothing to do with the airline

itself.

Not just the tail cone, but also took out the vertical stabilizer.

Yes. What a horrifying 32 minutes for the passengers....

This photograph shows the plane as it looked after explosive decompression. The vertical stabilizer is missing (circled in red).

Edited December 29, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[MaxYakov]

Seeing still no debris found. If they lose this one, one needs to start questioning both the competency of SE Asia pilots and SE ATC.

US commercial pilots I know, including family members, say that the training of SE Asian pilots is not up to snuff and incidents like Flight 214 resulted from chronically, poorly trained pilots that cannot fly with auto pilot disengaged. MH17 flee over a war zone, 8501 may have flown directly into a violent storm . . . and ATC seems to have the same low level of competency as well.

Is this bad equipment or operator issues? Didn't they have similar problems finding that Adam Air flight is same general area a few years back. Did that SE market grow faster than money, equipment and training could keep up?

.

Couldn't agree more. I have decided never to fly with SE Asian pilots again. Japanese, yes. SE Asian, no. Nor Chinese, nor Korean. Face was actually officially found as one reason for the crash of that plane this year at SFO, Korean pilot at the stick.

And ATC's waiting 50 minutes after lost contact to start the process of reporting a civilian airliner missing is gross incompetence.

I have a PLB I take when hiking and rock climbing. It cost $500 and is GPS enabled. If I flick the switch, in less than five minutes COSPAS_SARSAT satellites pinpoint my location and notify SAR. Thousands of people have been rescued because they carried a PLB.

A top of the line EPIRB (marine) or ELT (aviation) cost $1500.

All three are almost indestructible. Now two SE Asian airlines have disappeared without a single signal being broadcast. Why?

I will begin carrying my PLB with me when I fly any airline, anywhere.

SAR Rescuer (more likely a Flight Attendant): Is that a PLB in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

Edited December 29, 2014 by MaxYakov