Enforce the law or.....

[Keesters]

As I read through some of these forums I see many post saying in so much that laws should be enforced and the problems will go away. I tend to disagree. While law enforcement is necessary first you have to have a public educated in the laws and why they exist. As I talk with Thai friends and neighbors I get the feeling that to them a law is just there to stop them doing what they want. They don't see laws as a set of rules for people to live together peacefully as a nation or for their own protection. Take the simple law of wearing a motorcycle helmet. I see people who don't wear one, get stopped and fined only to do the same again the next day. In such cases enforcement of the law is clearly not working. Maybe educating them why they must wear one would be a better move.

Sometimes I feel as if breaking the law is Thailand's national sport or pastime and that there is some kind of point system in place to see who can break the most laws in any given day.

Comments.......

[robblok]

Keester, if they would get caught everyday without a helmet and had to pay they would change their habits quite quickly. Now its just a minor issue.

Personally I don't care much about the helmet law, its up to the person not wearing one. Though only exception is of course when a car hits them and they die. Then the car gets to blame while a helmet might have saved them. Personally if there was no law that made me wear a helmet i would still wear one.

[Keesters]

Keester, if they would get caught everyday without a helmet and had to pay they would change their habits quite quickly. Now its just a minor issue.

Personally I don't care much about the helmet law, its up to the person not wearing one. Though only exception is of course when a car hits them and they die. Then the car gets to blame while a helmet might have saved them. Personally if there was no law that made me wear a helmet i would still wear one.

But the thing is it is impossible to catch them every day. And I'm not just talking about the no helmet guys and gals but all lawbreakers. There just isn't enough police even if they did work at 100% efficiency. And as we well know many of the so called law enforcers break the laws themselves on a regular basis. Education in schools, social media, public awareness campaigns on television and in theatres would seem the better way to go.

Regarding a motorcyclists freedom not to wear a helmet. Fine as long as they realise they will not get treated under Thailand's health care system.

[pigeonjake]

you talk about wearing a helmet,,

yet you can go and get a driving license in less then a day, surely this isnt right,

some people jump off the iron buffalow strait into a pick up truck havnt got a clue of how to use the road, take roundabouts, they just dont understand them, again because they can get a license in a day, no road education, no lessons, nothing

im saying this and i havnt got a clue how to make things better, but as the old saying goes,, this is thailand,

[Langsuan Man]

It's the fatalistic approach to life that governs these type of things

Just like when you see a series of stores, with the identical merchandise, along the side of the road, there are usually a half a dozen or more. When I ask the TG who is the one that sells the most, and her fatalistic answer is always the lucky one sells the most

So the answer is those who get into accidents, or get fined for no helmet, are the ones that are not lucky, simple as that

[willyumiii]

The three "E s" of law enforcement.

Educate,

,

Engineer,

Enforce.

In that order!

Education is first, billboards, radio and television Public Service Announcements teaching people the consequences of unsafe driving is a necessity.

Engineering of safe roads, not only safe surfaces to drive on, but posted speed limits, adequate passing lanes and enough room to park a vehicle without blocking traffic, school zones, pedestrian crossings along with numerous other things is essential.

Enforcement: Once the public has been educated and a safe driving environment has been provided, apprehension of violators is the last step. Heavy fines, jail time, impoundment of vehicles and the loss of the right to drive will be taken seriously. This would require a larger force of traffic officers willing to get out and actually patrol.

If the three "Es" were implemented in Thailand, the country would lose it's rating as the second most dangerous country in the world for traffic fatalities.

It is really that simple.

Edited January 4, 2015 by willyumiii

[robblok]

Keester, if they would get caught everyday without a helmet and had to pay they would change their habits quite quickly. Now its just a minor issue.

Personally I don't care much about the helmet law, its up to the person not wearing one. Though only exception is of course when a car hits them and they die. Then the car gets to blame while a helmet might have saved them. Personally if there was no law that made me wear a helmet i would still wear one.

But the thing is it is impossible to catch them every day. And I'm not just talking about the no helmet guys and gals but all lawbreakers. There just isn't enough police even if they did work at 100% efficiency. And as we well know many of the so called law enforcers break the laws themselves on a regular basis. Education in schools, social media, public awareness campaigns on television and in theatres would seem the better way to go.

Regarding a motorcyclists freedom not to wear a helmet. Fine as long as they realise they will not get treated under Thailand's health care system.

As a foreigner we never (unless working legally) get treated under the Thai system. Does not make us exempt some with it would.

I stated the every day as a example but if you get caught more and more (does not need to be 100%) then it will work. Studies have been done that past a certain percentage of certainty of getting caught people will stop doing it.

[seajae]

If the police were doing there job strictly by the book it would ease up, apathy is the problem, people know the police dont care so they continually keep doing it. Yes the laws have to be acknowledged but this is also a part of the police work, they must ensure riders/drivers are aware of the laws before they get a licence. The reason it works in the west is that people know the police are on the roads and chances are they will be caught, this is why many do not break the laws, here no one cares because they know the police dont give a sh*t and will rarely venture out of their offices so the chances of being caught are virtually nil. If the people were suddenly to start getting fined/booked continually they would change their habits whether they knew the laws or not, money talks in Thailand and if the fines were really big and offenders were hit repeatedly every day they would very quickly stop doing it. They have to hit the bank accounts for it to work, arrogance and the dont care attitude will negate pushing the knowledge of laws, losing money all the time will not.

[DaddyWarbucks]

Draconian punishment has been tried before.

There were 220 capital offences in England at the turn of the 18th century.

It came to be known as the "Bloody Code" and it was a bloody failure.

[ThePlant]

I get the feeling that to them a law is just there to stop them doing what they want. They don't see laws as a set of rules for people to live together peacefully as a nation or for their own protection.

This was the key sentence for me.

I'd say the general feeling I get from Thais, especially in these days of modern technology making lies harder to cover up, is that it is now becoming clear to many here, that laws, no matter how seemingly petty, have been systematically employed by iffy regime after iffy regime to prevent the population at large for questioning, challenging or opposing the regimes in power or the status quo in general.

[DaddyWarbucks]

I get the feeling that to them a law is just there to stop them doing what they want. They don't see laws as a set of rules for people to live together peacefully as a nation or for their own protection.

This was the key sentence for me.

I'd say the general feeling I get from Thais, especially in these days of modern technology making lies harder to cover up, is that it is now becoming clear to many here, that laws, no matter how seemingly petty, have been systematically employed by iffy regime after iffy regime to prevent the population at large for questioning, challenging or opposing the regimes in power or the status quo in general.

Good point.

Lack of respect for laws and the authorities who enforce them plays a part.

[ATF]

The concept of Law is and has always been negotiable in Thailand.

In the West almost everything has a fixed price but in Thailand you can even sometimes negotiate the price in a department store.

[Hedghog]

OP.

Presumably you knew the score before moving here (if indeed you have.)

Therefore live and let live.

Don't try and change what's not broken.

Or you will end up in the scary world you left.

Big brother,nanny state.

Is that what you want?

[Keesters]

OP.

Presumably you knew the score before moving here (if indeed you have.)

Therefore live and let live.

Don't try and change what's not broken.

Or you will end up in the scary world you left.

Big brother,nanny state.

Is that what you want?

Yes I do live here and over my 30 years I have seen in the area of law observance little changes in the country I love and now call home. Am I wrong to want more for Thailand or its people. I have no idea if my country of birth is scary now it wasn't when I left.

The apathy that you show in do nothing is appalling. I hope you are not resident here as you seem to have no interest in offering anything constructive to the nation.

[In Search of Space]

I previously worked with several Thai chaps in Bangkok who had all been western university educated. They certainly wanted to see laws enforced and a Thailand where government was less corrupt etc

[benalibina]

OP.

Presumably you knew the score before moving here (if indeed you have.)

Therefore live and let live.

Don't try and change what's not broken.

Or you will end up in the scary world you left.

Big brother,nanny state.

Is that what you want?

Yes I do live here and over my 30 years I have seen in the area of law observance little changes in the country I love and now call home. Am I wrong to want more for Thailand or its people. I have no idea if my country of birth is scary now it wasn't when I left.

The apathy that you show in do nothing is appalling. I hope you are not resident here as you seem to have no interest in offering anything constructive to the nation.

It seems though that he adapted very well. Because of his personality or his experiences....only he can answer that.

[northernjohn]

you talk about wearing a helmet,,

yet you can go and get a driving license in less then a day, surely this isnt right,

some people jump off the iron buffalow strait into a pick up truck havnt got a clue of how to use the road, take roundabouts, they just dont understand them, again because they can get a license in a day, no road education, no lessons, nothing

im saying this and i havnt got a clue how to make things better, but as the old saying goes,, this is thailand,

Yes this is Thailand.

But that doesn't seem to register with some people. They want every thing like they had back home.

Enforce the law like the states do. They have more people per capata in prison than any other country in the world. Their court systems are so jammed up it takes for ever to get through one and yet they still have an on going problem with crime.

Perhaps if some one trained in the field with an open mind would try to work out an education system that would fit in with the Thai culture we would see a difference.

Just standing on the side lines and saying why isn't going to do it. It basically shows you have no knowledge of the Thai culture or are just Thai bashing.

[northernjohn]

The three "E s" of law enforcement.

Educate,

,

Engineer,

Enforce.

In that order!

Education is first, billboards, radio and television Public Service Announcements teaching people the consequences of unsafe driving is a necessity.

Engineering of safe roads, not only safe surfaces to drive on, but posted speed limits, adequate passing lanes and enough room to park a vehicle without blocking traffic, school zones, pedestrian crossings along with numerous other things is essential.

Enforcement: Once the public has been educated and a safe driving environment has been provided, apprehension of violators is the last step. Heavy fines, jail time, impoundment of vehicles and the loss of the right to drive will be taken seriously. This would require a larger force of traffic officers willing to get out and actually patrol.

If the three "Es" were implemented in Thailand, the country would lose it's rating as the second most dangerous country in the world for traffic fatalities.

It is really that simple.

Well they don't use bill boards in the states but they do educate them and make them pass reasonable test.

Then they kill 40,000 a year on their highways.

some how I think there is more to it. But then again we are digressing. The OP was talking about all laws.

As I said in an earlier post educating them in such a way that it fits in with their culture and stop trying to jam Western culture down their throats.

I just added that last little bit.

[sundrenched]

Draconian punishment has been tried before.

There were 220 capital offences in England at the turn of the 18th century.

It came to be known as the "Bloody Code" and it was a bloody failure.

It works pretty well in Singapore. I don't like everything there, but the legal system (barring "political crime") is pretty good. One of the few countries where breaking the law doesn't pay, and only stupid people do it. Sadly, in most countries, breaking the law is a good bet for those without morals. One of the things I wish they'd import is caning. Wouldn't it be lovely to see some of those "hiso" lawbreakers caned, instead of a given a fine they scoff at?

Edited January 4, 2015 by sundrenched

[DaddyWarbucks]

you talk about wearing a helmet,,

yet you can go and get a driving license in less then a day, surely this isnt right,

some people jump off the iron buffalow strait into a pick up truck havnt got a clue of how to use the road, take roundabouts, they just dont understand them, again because they can get a license in a day, no road education, no lessons, nothing

im saying this and i havnt got a clue how to make things better, but as the old saying goes,, this is thailand,

Yes this is Thailand.

But that doesn't seem to register with some people. They want every thing like they had back home.

Enforce the law like the states do. They have more people per capata in prison than any other country in the world. Their court systems are so jammed up it takes for ever to get through one and yet they still have an on going problem with crime.

Perhaps if some one trained in the field with an open mind would try to work out an education system that would fit in with the Thai culture we would see a difference.

Just standing on the side lines and saying why isn't going to do it. It basically shows you have no knowledge of the Thai culture or are just Thai bashing.

A well considered reply to this perplexing question.

[sundrenched]

The three "E s" of law enforcement.

Educate,

,

Engineer,

Enforce.

In that order!

Education is first, billboards, radio and television Public Service Announcements teaching people the consequences of unsafe driving is a necessity.

Engineering of safe roads, not only safe surfaces to drive on, but posted speed limits, adequate passing lanes and enough room to park a vehicle without blocking traffic, school zones, pedestrian crossings along with numerous other things is essential.

Enforcement: Once the public has been educated and a safe driving environment has been provided, apprehension of violators is the last step. Heavy fines, jail time, impoundment of vehicles and the loss of the right to drive will be taken seriously. This would require a larger force of traffic officers willing to get out and actually patrol.

If the three "Es" were implemented in Thailand, the country would lose it's rating as the second most dangerous country in the world for traffic fatalities.

It is really that simple.

Well they don't use bill boards in the states but they do educate them and make them pass reasonable test.

Then they kill 40,000 a year on their highways.

some how I think there is more to it. But then again we are digressing. The OP was talking about all laws.

As I said in an earlier post educating them in such a way that it fits in with their culture and stop trying to jam Western culture down their throats.

I just added that last little bit.

Let's talk specifics. Is expecting cars to stop at a red light when pedestrians are trying to cross "trying to force Western culture down Thais' throat"?

Edited January 4, 2015 by sundrenched

[Keesters]

The three "E s" of law enforcement.

Educate,

,

Engineer,

Enforce.

In that order!

Education is first, billboards, radio and television Public Service Announcements teaching people the consequences of unsafe driving is a necessity.

Engineering of safe roads, not only safe surfaces to drive on, but posted speed limits, adequate passing lanes and enough room to park a vehicle without blocking traffic, school zones, pedestrian crossings along with numerous other things is essential.

Enforcement: Once the public has been educated and a safe driving environment has been provided, apprehension of violators is the last step. Heavy fines, jail time, impoundment of vehicles and the loss of the right to drive will be taken seriously. This would require a larger force of traffic officers willing to get out and actually patrol.

If the three "Es" were implemented in Thailand, the country would lose it's rating as the second most dangerous country in the world for traffic fatalities.

It is really that simple.

Well they don't use bill boards in the states but they do educate them and make them pass reasonable test.

Then they kill 40,000 a year on their highways.

some how I think there is more to it. But then again we are digressing. The OP was talking about all laws.

As I said in an earlier post educating them in such a way that it fits in with their culture and stop trying to jam Western culture down their throats.

I just added that last little bit.

Let's talk specifics. Is expecting cars to stop at a red light when pedestrians are trying to cross "trying to force Western culture down Thais' throat"?

No because it is a Thai law. It is the observance of Thai law, or rather the lack of it, that this thread is about not western culture.

[sdanielmcev]

Why? So lawyers can run the country? Hasn't worked in the West, won't work here. I don't know where you're from op, but most places I've been, speeding, drunk driving, running red lights seem to happen all the time. That's why there are cops on the road.

[philw]

Too many "Theys" on this thread.

The "They's" are us also.

Western posters on TV describing Thai people as "they" do this,"they" do that, "they" do whatever...........

It's a big country, with a lot of people of diverse ancestry.

The "they" comment is too patronising for my taste.

[Aussieroaming]

its hard to break a lifetime of habit. I think that the pólice need to enforce the law with fines, but they need to consistently do it, not have a 6 monthly crackdown. Then the government needs to embark on education programs to enlighten people.

[gandalf12]

I get the impression that many Thais break the law because they see the people about them doing it and getting away with it. The law ha to be enforced without consideration to the persons position in society.

Those people breaking the law in the higher social position need to made an example of. Why? Because many people look up to them and think if it is ok for them to do then it is ok if I do it. The law should be dished out equally i.e. No one is above the law.

Pity it doesnt work in practice

[Baerboxer]

In the UK speeding regulations were implemented, and enforced. Wearing crash helmets whilst riding on motor cycles and scooters became mandatory and enforced. Regulations on drink driving limits were introduced and enforced, Wearing of seat belts became mandatory, with special exceptions, and enforced. Using your mobile phone whilst driving was banned and enforced.

All of those laws were not universally popular when introduced. Many spoke out against them, some refuses to accept them and were caught and prosecuted. A few still do but the majority now accept them and most people actually understand the sense of why they were introduced. The laws needed to be introduced and enforced before people realized the sane reasons behind them. Explaining the benefits doesn't work - people naturally resist what they perceive as making them do something or removing a choice.

This process is hampered, as all law enforcement in Thailand is, by having a police force which selectively enforces laws in a biased way, often accepting a bribe to ignore the offence. The corruption has the effect of corrupting the real reason for implementing laws designed to support public safety.

[bheard]

OP.

Presumably you knew the score before moving here (if indeed you have.)

Therefore live and let live.

Don't try and change what's not broken.

Or you will end up in the scary world you left.

Big brother,nanny state.

Is that what you want?

What an amazing statement! "Don't try to change what's not broken".

Clearly the road casualtiy numbers indicate that the situation was ALWAYS broken, never not broken, from the year dot.

OP, please go ahead, try to fix it!

[robblok]

OP.

Presumably you knew the score before moving here (if indeed you have.)

Therefore live and let live.

Don't try and change what's not broken.

Or you will end up in the scary world you left.

Big brother,nanny state.

Is that what you want?

What an amazing statement! "Don't try to change what's not broken".

Clearly the road casualtiy numbers indicate that the situation was ALWAYS broken, never not broken, from the year dot.

OP, please go ahead, try to fix it!

No being the nr 2 in the world with road deaths does not mean its not broken I wonder what hedghog would consider broken then.

[GreasyFingers]

The first time I came to Thailand the most pleasant thing was the lack of regulation after living in an industry and world dominated by it. So if you have fears and worries about the system here, keep them to yourself and let the others enjoy the pleasure of being here.