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Posted

I am getting married to my girlfriend of almost 8 years at the end of this month.

She’s been to the UK twice before, in 2011 and 2013. This next time, of course, she will be my wife, which should make it even easier to get a visiting friends and family visa. We shall be visiting in August for my son’s wedding and then see family for a week, and a week later (29th) we have another wedding and then we are free to do as we like.

As we won’t have time for a ‘proper’ honeymoon straight after our wedding, we are hoping to get a last minute deal when in the UK. As fellow Brits will know, when the schools go back in early September, flight and holiday prices drop like a stone as companies try to fill seats and cancelled hotels.

I was over alone last July/August, (family emergency, no time for g/f visa), and a week after my return a friend emailed to say he’d just seen a week in Turkey, half-board for only £149 (7,500 baht) a compete steal.

When we go over next, we’d like to try for one of these last minute deals BUT, it would mean either getting an open return (expensive) or making a guess as to what date we should return to Thailand, so we can fit a trip abroad in between the last wedding and coming back.

Turkey would be first choice, because I have been before and loved it, and also the then wife doesn’t need a visa for Turkey as Thailand and Turkey have a reciprocal agreement re visas on arrival. If we went to an EU country, it would be more difficult to get a last minute deal as she would have to apply for a Schengen visa here before leaving.

One other option is to get a one – way to the UK, do our weddings and then leave for a Turkish holiday, and on return to the UK after the holiday, get another one-way (cheaper in the UK too) back to Bangkok.

So the point I am getting at is this – would the UK border people allow my wife in without a return ticket? I can explain all this at the entry point, of course and only if they ask. Each time before, they didn’t ask to see her ticket at all.

Any ideas?

Posted

Don't think it is a problem, my wife hasn't been asked about tickets either travelling with me or alone. Turkey is a good plan for her, but don't forget that whilst she doesn't need a visa, you do!

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

I can not see that 2 singles bkk/lhr and then lhr/bkk will be cheaper than bkk/lhr/bkk

I always think that anyone entering the UK on a single ticket that does not have some sort of permanent residence would raise eyebrows with the immigration officer, but i could be wrong

Edited by steve187
Posted (edited)

There is no rule which says that UK visitors must have a return or onward ticket in order to enter the UK.

However, when entering the UK immigration may ask a visitor to show that they have either such a ticket or the means available to them, from their own or a third party's resources, with which to purchase one.

If they are unable to do one or the other then this could cast doubt upon their intention to leave the UK and could result in them being refused entry.

BTW, you said

If we went to an EU country, it would be more difficult to get a last minute deal as she would have to apply for a Schengen visa here before leaving.

Whilst the general rule is that people can only apply for a Schengen visa in their country of residence, qualifying non EEA national family members of EEA nationals, and a spouse is such, can apply for a Schengen visa in any country; even if they are there as a visitor.

So as your girlfriend is now your wife then, provided she is travelling with or to join you, she can apply for a Schengen visa in the UK whilst there as a visitor.

Also, as she is now your wife then, again provided she is travelling with or to join you, she does not need to provide evidence of hotel bookings etc. for a Schengen visa; merely evidence that she is your wife (your marriage certificate with a translation certified as correct by the Thai MFA) and the visa should be free and processed with the minimum of delay.

Edited by 7by7
  • Like 2
Posted

Don't think it is a problem, my wife hasn't been asked about tickets either travelling with me or alone. Turkey is a good plan for her, but don't forget that whilst she doesn't need a visa, you do!

I know, I've been before! It used to be a brand new £5 note, but now it's all on-line for $20, I gather.

My g/f wasn't asked about her ticket by UK Immi both times either, but I wonder if the airline will say anything?

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

I can not see that 2 singles bkk/lhr and then lhr/bkk will be cheaper than bkk/lhr/bkk

I always think that anyone entering the UK on a single ticket that does not have some sort of permanent residence would raise eyebrows with the immigration officer, but i could be wrong

1) I'm not going LHR, I want to go BHX.

2) I'm not worried about saving money per se, but I do know that flights UK to Thailand are a lot cheaper than the reverse. Two of my kids are coming over for the wedding - £511 per person BHX - BKK with Emirates.

The reverse fare from Thailand to the UK for the same days is £750. (37,525 baht)

I've done this before - 2 singles each way and I always save on the UK-BKK trip. Trailfinders is usually pretty cheap for one-ways.

I have a permanent UK address.

Edited by Mister Fixit
Posted (edited)

There is no rule which says that UK visitors must have a return or onward ticket in order to enter the UK.

However, when entering the UK immigration may ask a visitor to show that they have either such a ticket or the means available to them, from their own or a third party's resources, with which to purchase one.

If they are unable to do one or the other then this could cast doubt upon their intention to leave the UK and could result in them being refused entry.

BTW, you said

If we went to an EU country, it would be more difficult to get a last minute deal as she would have to apply for a Schengen visa here before leaving.

Whilst the general rule is that people can only apply for a Schengen visa in their country of residence, qualifying non EEA national family members of EEA nationals, and a spouse is such, can apply for a Schengen visa in any country; even if they are there as a visitor.

So as your girlfriend is now your wife then, provided she is travelling with or to join you, she can apply for a Schengen visa in the UK whilst there as a visitor.

Also, as she is now your wife then, again provided she is travelling with or to join you, she does not need to provide evidence of hotel bookings etc. for a Schengen visa; merely evidence that she is your wife (your marriage certificate with a translation certified as correct by the Thai MFA) and the visa should be free and processed with the minimum of delay.

Many thanks - very useful to know all that.

Never having had to do it before, I didn't know that she could apply for a Schengen visa in the UK as my spouse. That widens the horizons, as we could look at EU countries as well. Turkey was just the easy option as she wouldn't need a visa.

I have a pal who regularly stays at a place in Tenerife who can send me details of the place he uses there, and I also have an elderly sister-in-law in Spain who I wouldn't mind seeing again before she pops it, and I know the area where she lives very well. I also have a cousin with a cottage in Normandy who will lend us it for a week, so yet another option opens up now.

Many thanks for all that.

As to the single ticket, if I go through UK Immi with her and she is questioned, I can explain the situation if necessary, although I can see the risk. I can certaily show enough funds to purchase two single return tickets.

Maybe I can get a quote for two return singles, but not actually book the flights, then wave the quote in their face if necessary ...

Edited by Mister Fixit
Posted (edited)

Spain is notoriously difficult when it comes to abiding by the freedom of movement regulations; so be prepared to quote chapter and verse to them! (See I am a family member (spouse, child) of an EU/EEA citizen at Schengen Visa FAQ. Although that post is geared towards applicants in Thailand, the rules are the same wherever one applies.)

The Spanish visa website in London says she has to apply via their application centre and pay a handling charge. She doesn't; the regulations state she can apply direct to the embassy and not pay any charge at all.

No need to get any quotes for return tickets to show UK immigration; just evidence that you have the funds to purchase one, such as a bank statement.

That is if you or she is even asked; which is unlikely.

Edited by 7by7
  • Like 1
Posted

Don't think it is a problem, my wife hasn't been asked about tickets either travelling with me or alone. Turkey is a good plan for her, but don't forget that whilst she doesn't need a visa, you do!

I haven't been there for awhile but I thought Turkey had VOA. Not cheap but they had them. US passport but I would figure Brits would be able to get them too.

Posted

Don't think it is a problem, my wife hasn't been asked about tickets either travelling with me or alone. Turkey is a good plan for her, but don't forget that whilst she doesn't need a visa, you do!

I haven't been there for awhile but I thought Turkey had VOA. Not cheap but they had them. US passport but I would figure Brits would be able to get them too.

No problem to get the visa, not an issue at all, the interesting thing, at least to my mind, is that a UK person needs one whereas a Thai doesn't. Mind you, with Turkey wanting to join the EU and the UK wanting (hopefully) to get out that might explain things.

Posted (edited)

Don't think it is a problem, my wife hasn't been asked about tickets either travelling with me or alone. Turkey is a good plan for her, but don't forget that whilst she doesn't need a visa, you do!

I haven't been there for awhile but I thought Turkey had VOA. Not cheap but they had them. US passport but I would figure Brits would be able to get them too.

That's what I said - Thais don't need a visa to visit Turkey as the countries have a bilateral VOA system. I already knew that, which is why I was going to go there before I heard otherwise in the excellent post by 7x7 re Schengen visas. See the 6th paragraph in my OP.

Also see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/500903-where-can-thai-people-go-without-visa/?p=5396983

Edited by Mister Fixit
Posted

Spain is notoriously difficult when it comes to abiding by the freedom of movement regulations; so be prepared to quote chapter and verse to them! (See I am a family member (spouse, child) of an EU/EEA citizen at Schengen Visa FAQ. Although that post is geared towards applicants in Thailand, the rules are the same wherever one applies.)

The Spanish visa website in London says she has to apply via their application centre and pay a handling charge. She doesn't; the regulations state she can apply direct to the embassy and not pay any charge at all.

No need to get any quotes for return tickets to show UK immigration; just evidence that you have the funds to purchase one, such as a bank statement.

That is if you or she is even asked; which is unlikely.

I've read the Schengen visa FAQ, and we seem to be OK. I can also probably get a letter from my rather elderly and ditzy sister in law if necessary (and at a BIG push) to say we are coming to visit her. I will call the Spanish Embassy in London and ask, but I see that there's a Consul in Birmingham, close to where I'll be staying in the UK. It might be better to call him instead and see if that is an easier route, but I'm not bursting to go to Spain, but as I have been quite a few times before and know the area I want to visit well, it would be convenient.

In terms of your second paragraph, can I just turn up at the Spanish Embassy and shove all the various directives under their nose and sort of, well, demand a visa?

TBH, if the Spanish want to give me a hard time, I'd just forget them and go somewhere else and they can lose my minuscule input to their failing economy ... Maybe Turkey will be more welcoming.

Proof of funds for return tickets to any country are not a problem. If I went to Spain, Turkey or wherever, I would purchase return tickets, obviously. The one-way back to Thailand is also not a problem.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Spain is notoriously difficult when it comes to abiding by the freedom of movement regulations; so be prepared to quote chapter and verse to them! (See I am a family member (spouse, child) of an EU/EEA citizen at Schengen Visa FAQ. Although that post is geared towards applicants in Thailand, the rules are the same wherever one applies.)

The Spanish visa website in London says she has to apply via their application centre and pay a handling charge. She doesn't; the regulations state she can apply direct to the embassy and not pay any charge at all.

No need to get any quotes for return tickets to show UK immigration; just evidence that you have the funds to purchase one, such as a bank statement.

That is if you or she is even asked; which is unlikely.

The Spanish embassy doesn't handle visa applications, but their consulat in London does.

They do wish people to apply via snail mail though (b*ll*cks if you ask me, a phone call or e-mail should be sufficient for EU family members as they should be granted "every facility" ).

Spain is notoriously difficult when it comes to abiding by the freedom of movement regulations; so be prepared to quote chapter and verse to them! (See I am a family member (spouse, child) of an EU/EEA citizen at Schengen Visa FAQ. Although that post is geared towards applicants in Thailand, the rules are the same wherever one applies.)

The Spanish visa website in London says she has to apply via their application centre and pay a handling charge. She doesn't; the regulations state she can apply direct to the embassy and not pay any charge at all.

No need to get any quotes for return tickets to show UK immigration; just evidence that you have the funds to purchase one, such as a bank statement.

That is if you or she is even asked; which is unlikely.

I've read the Schengen visa FAQ, and we seem to be OK. I can also probably get a letter from my rather elderly and ditzy sister in law if necessary (and at a BIG push) to say we are coming to visit her. I will call the Spanish Embassy in London and ask, but I see that there's a Consul in Birmingham, close to where I'll be staying in the UK. It might be better to call him instead and see if that is an easier route, but I'm not bursting to go to Spain, but as I have been quite a few times before and know the area I want to visit well, it would be convenient.

In terms of your second paragraph, can I just turn up at the Spanish Embassy and shove all the various directives under their nose and sort of, well, demand a visa?

TBH, if the Spanish want to give me a hard time, I'd just forget them and go somewhere else and they can lose my minuscule input to their failing economy ... Maybe Turkey will be more welcoming.

Proof of funds for return tickets to any country are not a problem. If I went to Spain, Turkey or wherever, I would purchase return tickets, obviously. The one-way back to Thailand is also not a problem.

Try both the consulate near you and the one on London. They probably won't be too happy about turning up at their doorstep unanounced so try the snail-mail request for an appointment which should be granted within 2 weeks of the request. I'd sent them an e-mail with the request and announce that the request is also on route per snail mail but that as per EU instructions you hope the Spanish will honour their obligation to give you an appointment within 2 weeks of the request and grant every facility as per EU Directive 2004/38/EC and what the Schengen Visa Code dictates. Then provide them with the neccesary papers: proof of marriage, possibly an English translation, (copy) of your passports, a written statement by you that your wife will jopin you to Spain and just to make things easier for them (not strictly required but hey you are going to give them an easier time) a reservation of some accomoodation and/or transport. That should make them happy, if you cannot or do not want to bother with reservations you can explain to them that your statement that the two of you will travel together technically is sufficient for the Spanish consulate to hand your wife her visa. Being a bit practical rather then sticking to the bare minimum of legalyl required items may make things go a bit more smoother though.

In my note I'd also comment that you hope to be able to enjoy Spanish hospitality and spending some holidays and holiday money there. If well written it could be seen as a compliment and a "if you don't bother to give us the visa which we are entitled to we will happily spent our money in some other place, your loss". wink.png

Or else there are plenty of other countries to spent your money: Italy, France, Turkey. Just as my wife and I aren't really going to bother getting a UK visa (from NL), too much effort, their loss. Plenty of nice countries to spent the holidays and the London isn't exactly a worth visiting if you wish to enjoy some sunshine (same -at times terrible- sea climate as here in NL).

Edited by Donutz
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

There is no rule which says that UK visitors must have a return or onward ticket in order to enter the UK.

However, when entering the UK immigration may ask a visitor to show that they have either such a ticket or the means available to them, from their own or a third party's resources, with which

The first sentence is absolutely true, I recently had this confirmed in writing following my query. However, most airlines will not issue a boarding pass to a Thai national with a tourist or similar visa, without a return flight. I strongly suggest you check with the airline before you go.

Edited by billphillips
  • Like 1
Posted

An option would be to buy return tickets using one of the big 3 Arab carriers - Qatar, Emirates or Etihad, but thta might mean using LHR not BHX.

Cancellation and re-booking even on a promotional fare is usually only 100 quid (maybe 150 on one of them - check it out). They nearly always are able to offer your first choice of alternative dates for a changed second leg, unless you are right at the heart of the Arab tourist season.

Posted (edited)

^

I want to fly to Birmingham (BHX) and only Emirates go there AFAIK, and would never use Etihad again after an awful trip via Manchester in 2013.

I am not sure if Qatar goes to BHX without checking.

The whole point, though, is NOT to get return tickets so that we can have maximum flexibility about return dates ...

Two of my children are coming out here later this month and change or cancellation would have been £140 each (about a third the cost of the ticket) so that is not an option.

It's either two singles or book a longer stay and waste money on hotels twiddling our thumbs if we have too much time after the European trip - not really an option either.

The most sensible advice has been to contact the airline and see if they will let her on with just a one-way ticket. I shall call Emirates ASAP and check their policy on this. She will have a 'visiting friends and family' visa, not a tourist visa, same as the two previous visits.

Edit - Qatar don't go to Birmingham

Edited by Mister Fixit
Posted

Most, if not all, airlines flying into the UK will be aware that a visitor does not need a return or onward ticket; so I doubt that you will have any trouble. The people I know who have come to the UK as visitors without such a ticket certainly didn't.

However, rather than worrying about it, check with your airline before purchasing the ticket.

Posted (edited)

Most, if not all, airlines flying into the UK will be aware that a visitor does not need a return or onward ticket; so I doubt that you will have any trouble. The people I know who have come to the UK as visitors without such a ticket certainly didn't.

However, rather than worrying about it, check with your airline before purchasing the ticket.

I'm not worried about it as such, I just want to ensure there are no unexpected last-minute problems.

However, I have just come off the phone with Emirates Bangkok and they say THEY don't stop people from boarding with a one-way ticket, but they have to obey the requirements of the destination country, which is sort of a nothing answer.

I pointed out that the UKBA website states that family members don't have to show a return ticket, only the means to buy one when the visa expires or when the visitor wants to return. That said, he then agreed that a single ticket would be OK and my then wife would be allowed to board. Naturally, I shall check this again when I book.

However, he then went on to try to get me to book a flexible return ticket, which he said would be more expensive but would incur 'little or no extra cost' if I decided to modify the return date. Again, that seems to be a sort of nothing answer, as I know my kids would have had to pay £140 to change their departure date on a fixed date ticket, and I suspect that the flexible ticket would be at least that much extra anyway.

As to the UK checking for a return ticket, neither I, (twice) nor any of the 3 friends I have asked have had their wives had to show a return ticket at the UK Immi desk

Edited by Mister Fixit
Posted

Indeed, all airlines do have to obey the requirements of the destination country; but as we all know there is no requirement by the UK for visitors (all visitors, not just family members of British citizens) seeking entry to have a return or onward ticket.

Indeed, although a visitor will need to show that they either have such a ticket or the available means with which to purchase one if asked to do so by UK immigration, this very rarely happens; as you and your friends' experiences show.

Of course the person you spoke to at Emirates, having confirmed a single would be OK, then tried to sell you a flexible return; it's their job and no doubt they were trying for some commission!

Posted

Of course the person you spoke to at Emirates, having confirmed a single would be OK, then tried to sell you a flexible return; it's their job and no doubt they were trying for some commission!

That was my immediate thought! smile.png

I'm just going to get two singles and then use someone like Trailfinders (who I have always found reasonable) for a return single when we are ready.

Posted

First time I took my GF to UK it was on a 1 way ticket so to coincide with my return. Just had to sign a disclaimer here in Thailand for the airline. But UK no problem 1 way ticket, confirmed by e mail from Border Agency as its now called before i left

  • Like 1
Posted

I checked Skyscanner and a one way flight with Air India to BHX via Delhi is 14,870 baht including booking fee, per person. Total of 29, 570 baht. Nice! smile.png

Return is 16, 240 with Air India , but going from LHR with Jet Airways (ugh!) it is 14, 450 baht, so broadly the same fare as going to the UK

Posted

I bought my GF over on her first visit with Jet and a single ticket and the Jet reps were all over us at the transfer desk at Delhi because it was not a return ticket. I told them if I have a problem in the UK I will buy the ticket online in front of the Boarder Agency if need be. Its not a visa requirement but an airline issue as they have to fly the non UK person back if declined entry. The Arab airlines do check so I believe and also swipe the credit card the ticket was bought on.

Posted

I booked one-way tickets for myself and my wife (Thai) for a visit to the UK last April using Etihad Airmiles.

The plan was to book cheap one-way tickets back to Bangkok once we were in the UK and knew what date we wanted to travel.

I thought i'd be clever whistling.gif and edit an old ticket with Emirates and change names and dates to show that as our return ticket, if asked at Check-in by Etihad. We got to Check-in early and presented our passports. The lady then asked for a return ticket for my wife, no problem, pulled out the e-ticket for Emirates LON-BKK in a months time and handed it over. I was thinking she would have a look and hand it back, but oh no, she picked up the telephone and made a call asking for Emirates telephone number. Then made another call to Emirates and quoted the booking reference number on the e-ticket. I was thinking.... i'm going to have to get to an internet cafe and book a flight, what a hassle, hope we don't miss our flights. facepalm.gif

The check-in lady came off the phone and said that the return Emirates flight was not confirmed hit-the-fan.gif and my wife would not be able to travel. I said "a family member had booked the flight i thought it was all ok but whats the problem, my wife has a Family Visit visa for the UK". She stated that because the visa was a Type C - Family Visit (it's marked on visa) she would need a return ticket. I'd never heard of this before.

She called the supervisor over and she was examing the e-ticket, then asked my wife if she had travelled to the UK before, which she has and luckily i had brought along her old passport which had old UK visa's inside. The supervisor looked at her old passport and said that she would allow her to travel this time but in future make sure the return journey is confirmed.

We were lucky. I'd never book a one-way ticket again.

No problems at UK Immigration, never asked to look at any travel tickets, same as past visits.

Chok Dee Mister Fixit

Posted (edited)

Mmm, makes me think I'll check with the airline first, before booking - I have all her old documents, but I will have to obviously check this out. Interesting that UK immigration don't care if you have a return ticket or not, but the airlines do. Who's in charge here?

However, despite the above post, or because of it, I have to say I don't trust airline check-in people too much.

We were in Hong Kong a couple of years ago, and left Thailand and entered HK with no problems. However, it was when I tried to leave that an airline idiot tried to say I couldn't.

We used the check-in machine at the airport, printed out our boarding passes and went off to the gates. However, as I passed the Cathay Pacific check-in desk 20 yards away a youngish tall and heftily-built chap in shirtsleeves, no uniform, stopped us and asked to see my papers, in particular my passport. I showed him everything and he suddenly said I couldn't leave because I didn't have a visa to enter Thailand - where I'd lived continuously on a visa B for then 8 years! What on earth?

I got the impression he wasn't too up on his reading of English and his spoken English was pretty poor. He didn't seem to have much of a brain either, because he was adamant that I could not enter Thailand and hence had to stay in HK. I patiently showed him my B visa and explained what it was, and also showed him the re-entry permit. I also explained that anyway, visa or not, as a UK citizen, I was allowed to enter Thailand for 30 days on a visa exemption/waiver/whatever. I had to do this slowly about 4 times, pointing at the words 'Visa B' each time and each time he said, 'No, you not go, not go'.

At the fifth repetition of this, I lost my rag and started to raise my voice, and again said 'No, I have a valid 12 month visa with another 8 months on it, I have a proper re-entry permit and anyway, I don't need a visa for Thailand. You are wrong, and I am leaving now. If you bring your manager, the police and an immigration officer, I will explain to them, but you obviously don't understand your job or Thai visa requirements, so how about I make a complaint with the airline and airport management about you?'.

I think he saw I was pretty annoyed and really meant business because I'd grabbed all the paperwork and passport out of his hand, picked up our bags when he suddenly changed tack and waved us away with a scowl and said 'OK, you go now'! Pr@t.

I have no idea what on earth that was all about but can only wonder if he wasn't trying to intimidate me, perhaps to get some sort of payment from me to let me through.

Or then again, perhaps not all airline staff ARE as well trained as they could be and you were as unlucky as I was ...

Finally, to counter your post, my pal told me just an hour ago (because I called him in the UK to check) that when he took his wife on her first 6 month family visit to the UK, also used single tickets for them because they didn't know when they'd return to Thailand. He said he sailed through, both when leaving BKK and arriving in the UK.

Sounds to me more like you tried to work a flanker, they spotted your 'edit' and decided to give you a hard time. Best not to try to alter tickets, in my opinion, and also in my opinion, you were damn lucky she let you through ...

Furthermore, you made the mistake of going with Etihad, which I consider to be the worst airline I have flown with, with thick staff, especially at Manchester and I would never use them again. I suspect that, and your own efforts to fudge the ticket, caused you your problem ... whistling.gif

Edited by Mister Fixit
Posted (edited)

However, despite the above post, or because of it, I have to say I don't trust airline check-in people too much.

Finally, to counter your post, my pal told me just an hour ago (because I called him in the UK to check) that when he took his wife on her first 6 month family visit to the UK, also used single tickets for them because they didn't know when they'd return to Thailand. He said he sailed through, both when leaving BKK and arriving in the UK.

Sounds to me more like you tried to work a flanker, they spotted your 'edit' and decided to give you a hard time. Best not to try to alter tickets, in my opinion, and also in my opinion, you were damn lucky she let you through ...

Furthermore, you made the mistake of going with Etihad, which I consider to be the worst airline I have flown with, with thick staff, especially at Manchester and I would never use them again. I suspect that, and your own efforts to fudge the ticket, caused you your problem ... whistling.gif

Your correct, we were very lucky that day. But i don't think the edited e-ticket was the problem, if they thought it was dodgy we would have been turned away. Not that i will ever try it again or recommend anyone else to try it.

I believed the check-in lady and her supervisor when they stated "because the UK Visa is a Type C (Family Visit) a return ticket is required."

7by7/Mods can anyone confirm this?

Edited by Boycie
Posted

As I mentioned before; I have it in writing from the UK border agency, a return ticket is not an immigration requirement. It is however a requirement of some airlines. You will just have to check before you leave .... Or find out on the day!

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