Young tourists performing yoga at sacred temple criticised in Thai media

[Nakajima]

Internet outrage is a "thing" these days. It might make people feel superior, or a way to get their otherwise static blood rushing when sitting for hours in front of a computer. I don't know.

Were these foreigners behaving kind of inappropriately? I guess. Is there any malice? I think not at all. They're in The East, at a courtyard of an Eastern Temple. Yoga is from The East. Yoga is associated with Eastern spirituality and religion. They probably think what they're doing is perfectly appropriate.

Instead of all this manufactured outrage, it would have been better to simply go up to them and politely inform them that yoga and Buddhism are not analogous and that a temple courtyard is not the right place for such an exercise. Even better would've been to just ignore them.

T

that is EXACTLY what all my Thai friends said about it.

[Eirene]

The man is shirtless, too. Is this appropriate behavior at the Vatican? Common sense tells one it is not polite.

What? Like this?

http://m.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-topless-act-shocks-vatican/20101216.htm

I'm sure Pope Francis wouldn't mind..... he's very forward thinking.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Eirene

[JohnThailandJohn]

Not sure what is more pitiful --

1) That some people, who should know better, without any doubt showed unnecessary disrespect. (this cannot be argued)

2) That some people have taken a personal offence and outrage toward these morons rather than pity them.

3) That some posters here are denying the act was disrespectful and wrong and/or appear to be getting just as upset if not more and doing the same thing they are whining about other doings (voicing their displeasure of others online)

Be it locals or foreigners clearly the most pitiful people are the ones who take an incident like this and the reactions and try to paint an entire group in a certain negative light.

Edited January 6, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[dazzz]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

The first sensible post on here. If thais are offended by this yoga they have to stop having morlum sexy girl concerts , stop drinking low kao and beer ,stop fighting in all of the temples all of which i see on a monthly basis. I think most of the righteous drivel is from farangs in and south of bangkok who have never seen the real thailand.

My wife`s brother became a monk because his wife threw him out for adultery and he had nowhere to live. He was then thrown out of the village temple when he was seen with a woman drinking whisky and is now in a temple in udon thani where he tells me the monks sell drugs (same as the police in my village). Went to visit him one night and ended up in the town with a few monks who had changed clothes and went with us eating and drinking. Met a monk on the bus covered in tatoos who told me he had not long come out of jail for murder and since had committed more offences so became a monk to prevent the police from arresting him and said there were a lot of thais who just became monks because they were homeless or to avoid being arrested.

Thais need to clean up their own act before they criticise others for minor things . Have attached a few more photos of concert in the local temple with sexy dancers ,rubbish thrown around the buddha statue and giant sacred tree and the drunks fighting. The last photo of a man and woman having intercourse when the young boy turned the handle was offensive and embarrassing to me and should never have gone into the temple. One of the girl dancers i know and is only 14.

What is offensive to thais is farangs coming half way around the world to pay for sex with young girls and is also illegal but that would not bother most of you as much as this yoga thing

This is the same in every temple i have been to north of korat. How aboout posting these photos on the thai website and ask them how they allow this to go on in their temples ,and every thai has been to these concerts and know they go on.p

[Nakajima]

Not sure what is more pitiful --

1) That some people, who should no better, without any doubt visit a foreign country and showed unnecessary disrespect. (this cannot be argued)

2) That some people have taken ore offence then they should to these morons.

3) That some posters here are denying the act was disrespectful and wrong and/or appear to be getting just as upset if not more and doing the same thing they are whining about other doings (voicing their displeasure of others online)

Be it locals or foreigners clearly the most pitiful people are the ones who take an incident like this and the reactions and try to paint an entire group in a certain negative light.

I pity myself trying to understand what you just wrote especially point n.2

[JohnThailandJohn]

Look at the outrage from some idiot foreigners when a few schoolkids dressed up as Hitler. The Israeli Embassy even got involved I think.

.I've gone up to two Thai people and told them that I was offended as they were wearing the sex pistols "God save the Queen"t-shirt. One didn't give a toss but the middle aged woman was very embarrassed. Another young guy who was wearing an anarchy sign was shocked when I told him what an anarchist believes.

are we comparing a madman killing millions of people with 2 kids exercising near a temple or someone wearing a t-shirt? really?

Where is Hitler being compared? Looks to be a post about offensive dress and how people can ignorantly offend others and that simple things like dress, or lack of, can and is very offensive to some.

[dunque]

Is it any worse than Thai tourists scribbling graffiti on the Great Wall or lauding Adolph Hitler? I really don't think so.

I don't believe it was Thai tourists with the Nazi stuff. I think it was University students in Bangkok.

Thaiiliketoo google is your friend http://www.khaosod.co.th/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRRd05EY3hPVFEyTkE9PQ==&sectionid=

..but obviously it is not your friend since the article you linked to:

(1) makes no mention of 'Thai tourists with the Nazi stuff' you were supposedly rebutting

(2) documents the outrage in Thailand by tai internet users at their compatriots activities in China

[AYJAYDEE]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

The first sensible post on here. If thais are offended by this yoga they have to stop having morlum sexy girl concerts , stop drinking low kao and beer ,stop fighting in all of the temples all of which i see on a monthly basis. I think most of the righteous drivel is from farangs in and south of bangkok who have never seen the real thailand.

My wife`s brother became a monk because his wife threw him out for adultery and he had nowhere to live. He was then thrown out of the village temple when he was seen with a woman drinking whisky and is now in a temple in udon thani where he tells me the monks sell drugs (same as the police in my village). Went to visit him one night and ended up in the town with a few monks who had changed clothes and went with us eating and drinking. Met a monk on the bus covered in tatoos who told me he had not long come out of jail for murder and since had committed more offences so became a monk to prevent the police from arresting him and said there were a lot of thais who just became monks because they were homeless or to avoid being arrested.

Thais need to clean up their own act before they criticise others for minor things . Have attached a few more photos of concert in the local temple with sexy dancers ,rubbish thrown around the buddha statue and giant sacred tree and the drunks fighting. The last photo of a man and woman having intercourse when the young boy turned the handle was offensive and embarrassing to me and should never have gone into the temple. One of the girl dancers i know and is only 14.

What is offensive to thais is farangs coming half way around the world to pay for sex with young girls and is also illegal but that would not bother most of you as much as this yoga thing

sex on a truck.JPG

This is the same in every temple i have been to north of korat. How aboout posting these photos on the thai website and ask them how they allow this to go on in their temples ,and every thai has been to these concerts and know they go on.p1.JPG2.JPG3.JPG5.JPG6.JPG

the fact that thais act disrectfully in a wat is no excuse for a farang to do so. do you have evidence the photographer acted in an unseemly manner?

[Shaunduhpostman]

It doesn't seem that the people running the temple are much bothered about it. Don't know why the person who was outraged is given the time of day by the media. Guess it has been a slow day in the news without anything to report or say.

Tho personally I don't particularly care for the display of whatever newfangled form of performance yoga is being demonstrated, I doubt the people running the temple mind that much about harmless actions that are going on under their radar. If they saw what was happening and didn't like it they would just ask the couple to stop, end of story. I'm sure the temple and all the monks can look after themselves in the face of such abominations. A few years ago I went to the famous white temple in Chiang Rai, Wat Rong Khun, the one designed by the famous Thai painter Chalermchai Kositpipat. When I arrived at the gate I found that a sign had been posted saying, "No foreigners admitted without accompaniment by a Thai National." Tho my Thai wife was dawdling in the cafe and was soon to come along, I didn't want to be admited only because she was with me. I said to the woman selling tickets to get in, "I respect Buddhism, I attend teachings, I meditate and try to behave as recommended by the Buddha, may I please come in and see Chalermchai's wonderful homage to the Dharma?" She said, "OK, never mind. You can come in." So, I'm sure if foreigners present a problem for the temple, they would or could post similar flexible restrictions on who enters the temple. It isn't rocket science to protect one's temple from the perceived offensive actions, attitudes and words of the heedless tourist mobs.

To the person who was outraged, if you feel so strongly about "Buddhism" because you are a "Buddhist," I'm sure that from a Buddhist perspective, its better for your Buddhist practice to tame your mind, read sutras and teachings by contemporary masters, meditate, attend teachings by living masters and help them as well, and try to do actions that directly help those who are suffering. That will do more for "Buddhism," which you seem to think needs your help, than ranting to the media. The Dharma is upheld by those who practice it not by fighting and struggling against non-Buddhists to save it. If people disrespect your "Buddhism" I think the teachings recommend we develop compassion for them, not anger and outrage. If they are truly disrepectful or willfully ignorant of what the Buddha had to say and the advice he had to help beings avoid suffering, they are the ones who will suffer, not the Dharma, perhaps their heedlessness regarding the teachings, given they have had the opportunity to receive them, is just as a child who would ignore a parent's warning not to stick their hand into a fire. But if in their hearts the yoga enthusiasts really do respect the teachings -and my guess is that as yoga practitioners they are quite likely to do so, at the very least, to be very open to the essence of Dharma- and they have made a mistake, then why bother about it, we all make mistakes. Why not consider that perhaps they, like you, sometimes get carried away and make mistakes? Perhaps they were simply overwhelmed by joy at having encountered a temple dedicated to the Buddha and his teachings? Perhaps like temple dancers, what they are doing represents an offering, we don't know what was their intention of their feeling, so why presume it was something frivolous and disrespectful? You might as well think, "Well, I don't really care for their style, but they seem to be very happy about something! How wonderful! Maybe they are happy because they think they have at last discovered something wonderful while visting our temple and country!"

Edited January 6, 2015 by Shaunduhpostman

[Nakajima]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

The first sensible post on here. If thais are offended by this yoga they have to stop having morlum sexy girl concerts , stop drinking low kao and beer ,stop fighting in all of the temples all of which i see on a monthly basis. I think most of the righteous drivel is from farangs in and south of bangkok who have never seen the real thailand.

My wife`s brother became a monk because his wife threw him out for adultery and he had nowhere to live. He was then thrown out of the village temple when he was seen with a woman drinking whisky and is now in a temple in udon thani where he tells me the monks sell drugs (same as the police in my village). Went to visit him one night and ended up in the town with a few monks who had changed clothes and went with us eating and drinking. Met a monk on the bus covered in tatoos who told me he had not long come out of jail for murder and since had committed more offences so became a monk to prevent the police from arresting him and said there were a lot of thais who just became monks because they were homeless or to avoid being arrested.

Thais need to clean up their own act before they criticise others for minor things . Have attached a few more photos of concert in the local temple with sexy dancers ,rubbish thrown around the buddha statue and giant sacred tree and the drunks fighting. The last photo of a man and woman having intercourse when the young boy turned the handle was offensive and embarrassing to me and should never have gone into the temple. One of the girl dancers i know and is only 14.

What is offensive to thais is farangs coming half way around the world to pay for sex with young girls and is also illegal but that would not bother most of you as much as this yoga thing

sex on a truck.JPG

This is the same in every temple i have been to north of korat. How aboout posting these photos on the thai website and ask them how they allow this to go on in their temples ,and every thai has been to these concerts and know they go on.p1.JPG2.JPG3.JPG5.JPG6.JPG

Hypocrisy.

Like when Beyonce came to Thailand, locals brings her to a go-go bar (and I am not against it), bash her because she told the press. To Thai the wrong was hers for telling, a foreigner, not theirs for bringing her there or even having something they are ashamed of.

[AYJAYDEE]

It doesn't seem that the people running the temple are much bothered about it. Don't know why the person who was outraged is given the time of day by the media. Guess it has been a slow day in the news without anything to report or say.

Tho personally I don't particularly care for the display of whatever newfangled form of performance yoga is being demonstrated, I doubt the people running the temple mind that much about harmless actions that are going on under their radar. If they saw what was happening and didn't like it they would just ask the couple to stop, end of story. I'm sure the temple and all the monks can look after themselves in the face of such abominations. A few years ago I went to the famous white temple in Chiang Rai, Wat Rong Khun, the one designed by the famous Thai painter Chalermchai Kositpipat. When I arrived at the gate I found that a sign had been posted saying, "No foreigners admitted without accompaniment by a Thai National." Tho my Thai wife was dawdling in the cafe and was soon to come along, I didn't want to be admited only because she was with me. I said to the woman selling tickets to get in, "I respect Buddhism, I attend teachings, I meditate and try to behave as recommended by the Buddha, may I please come in and see Chalermchai's wonderful homage to the Dharma?" She said, "OK, never mind. You can come in." So, I'm sure if foreigners present a problem for the temple, they would or could post similar flexible restrictions on who enters the temple. It isn't rocket science to protect one's temple from the perceived offensive actions, attitudes and words of the heedless tourist mobs.

To the person who was outraged, if you feel so strongly about "Buddhism" because you are a "Buddhist," I'm sure that from a Buddhist perspective, its better for your Buddhist practice to tame your mind, read sutras and teachings by contemporary masters, meditate, attend teachings by living masters and help them as well, and try to do actions that directly help those who are suffering. That will do more for "Buddhism," which you seem to think needs your help, than ranting to the media. The Dharma is upheld by those who practice it not by fighting and struggling against non-Buddhists to save it. If people disrespect your "Buddhism" I think the teachings recommend we develop compassion for them, not anger and outrage. If they are truly disrepectful or willfully ignorant of what the Buddha had to say and the advice he had to help beings avoid suffering, they are the ones who will suffer, just as a child who would ignore a parent's warning not to stick their hand into a fire. But if in their hearts the yoga enthusiasts do respect the teachings -and my guess is that as yoga practitioners they are quite likely, at the very least, to be very open to the essence of Dharma- and they have made a mistake, then why bother about it, we all make mistakes. Why not consider that perhaps they, like you, sometimes get carried away and make mistakes? Perhaps they were simply overwhelmed by joy at having encountered a temple dedicated to the Buddha and his teachings? Perhaps like temple dancers, what they are doing represents an offering, we don't know what was their intention of their feeling, so why presume it was something frivolous and disrespectful?

because it was frivolous and disrespecful.

[Sawan Chan 7]

Not sure what is more pitiful --

1) That some people, who should no better, without any doubt visit a foreign country and showed unnecessary disrespect. (this cannot be argued)

2) That some people have taken ore offence then they should to these morons.

3) That some posters here are denying the act was disrespectful and wrong and/or appear to be getting just as upset if not more and doing the same thing they are whining about other doings (voicing their displeasure of others online)

Be it locals or foreigners clearly the most pitiful people are the ones who take an incident like this and the reactions and try to paint an entire group in a certain negative light.

I pity myself trying to understand what you just wrote especially point n.2

Unfortunately, the inferior half of you is showing - the ability to put thing into context to understand what is being said

[Nakajima]

Look at the outrage from some idiot foreigners when a few schoolkids dressed up as Hitler. The Israeli Embassy even got involved I think.

.I've gone up to two Thai people and told them that I was offended as they were wearing the sex pistols "God save the Queen"t-shirt. One didn't give a toss but the middle aged woman was very embarrassed. Another young guy who was wearing an anarchy sign was shocked when I told him what an anarchist believes.

are we comparing a madman killing millions of people with 2 kids exercising near a temple or someone wearing a t-shirt? really?

Where is Hitler being compared? Looks to be a post about offensive dress and how people can ignorantly offend others and that simple things like dress, or lack of, can and is very offensive to some.

seems like I am having troubles understanding your posts then. Sorry.

[mic59]

A group of farang was found doing a workout [at a temple], supposedly yoga. They spread their arms and legs while their friends were taking photos. This was done in public view of both locals and tourists," the caption said. Common temple etiquette requires visitors to remain calm, and act in a composed manner"

Boo hoo hoo

If they are doing something wrong then say so to their face instead of this cowardly, chicken crud online BS outrage campaign.

Confrontation is not something Thais do. Just because this is being raised over the internet does not mean it is OK. Last week a couple of women sunbaked on graves in a cemetery in Australia. This was brought up when vision was uploaded to the internet, not when the women were confronted. Does that make it any more acceptable?

[TomJoad]

Must be a slow news week......

[Nakajima]

Not sure what is more pitiful --

1) That some people, who should no better, without any doubt visit a foreign country and showed unnecessary disrespect. (this cannot be argued)

2) That some people have taken ore offence then they should to these morons.

3) That some posters here are denying the act was disrespectful and wrong and/or appear to be getting just as upset if not more and doing the same thing they are whining about other doings (voicing their displeasure of others online)

Be it locals or foreigners clearly the most pitiful people are the ones who take an incident like this and the reactions and try to paint an entire group in a certain negative light.

I pity myself trying to understand what you just wrote especially point n.2

Unfortunately, the inferior half of you is showing - the ability to put thing into context to understand what is being said

I see, it is my duty to make sense of broken language, not yours to write in a way that most humans can understand.

[strapper1]

There was no disrespect intended, from what I can see. I was recently scolded by a monk for climbing the 600 steps that lead to the top of of a wat in north Thailand a little to fast, he told me that the wat was meant for meditation, not exercise! And as far as the dress code is concerned, many people are turned away for what Thai's perceive to be inappropriate dress. It used to be that way in Christian churches when they expected you to dress up for services, but these days, people attend church in eveyday street attire. I think that it is far more disrespectful to witness the consumption of animals at wats, but that;s just me.

[Tingtau]

Re: AnotherOneAmercican's comment re being amazed at what "some youngsters in the west get up to on the grass outside (otherwise known as the graveyard". No, I wouldn't, but that doesn't make it appropriate where ever 'there' was or here in Thailand!

Re: Bluespunk's "If they are doing something wrong then say so to their face instead of this cowardly, chicken crud online BS outrage campaign", with respect, I suggest that he knows full well that confrontation is not something Thais are comfortable with, especially with "outsiders" except under extreme circumstances. Hell, I'm not comfortable with it either and I'm not Thai. If these youth had been, say, urinating on a statue of Buddha, I would not be surprised if a confrontation (and physical one,at that) was initiated by aThai (joined by falangs, including yours truly, as well!!).

Re: PaddyJenkins "....another racist, over sensitive thai taking their oh so precious culture a little too seriously?" How is it racist to complain about actions one finds offensive? You don't seriously suggest that any person who complains of another's behaviour is a racist simply because they are not of the same race as the "offender"? Over sensitive? In your mind....but not in the mind of many, if not all Thai's I suspect. And, for reasons I will expand upon later, not in my mind either, for I find their actions were offensive! . "precious culture" Hmmmm! A slight tone of some unvoiced resentment, is there? Too seriously. Again, in your mind! "...choice between some Chinese tourist publicly defecating.....some young Thais doing yoga... example of good, clean living people. Looking back over PaddyJenkins comment in its entirety, I get the feeling that ole PaddyJ just might be a tad racist!

and finally

Re: Jeremy50's "They look nice. When will people get off their high horse about religion and national borders." a) Eye of the beholder in the venue seen. Probably never!! I gave up a long time answering the question as to where I was from by saying "I'm an Earthman from this World" and as to what religon I espouse "Agnosticism". Now I will be as forthcoming on either question as any listeners and circumstances desire or will allow.

The credo "when in Rome......" contains sage advice for the most part. That doesn't mean assuming the bad traits of your chosen country to live, but it does mean respecting and abiding by cultural mores as well as the laws of the land. Walking around on the beach shirtless is perfectly okay! Walking around shirtless elsewhere is usually frowned upon and, I believe, that it can result in a modest fine if a police officer were so inclined as to enforce the law with regard to one's attire in the public areas. Walking around shirtless (not sure about tight leotards as to acceptability.....someone more knowledgeable than I might put in a word about that?) anywhere within a Wat is, I believe, totally unacceptable! If you have visited the "Big Buddha" in Chalong, you will have noted that, prior to entering the grounds proper, proper dressware is required and any clothing required to bring the visitor up to the required dress code is provided free of charge. While performing yoga in a public venue would not be frowned upon except where doing so would interfere with traffic or people in that public venue, a Wat is NOT what I would think of as being a "public" place in the usual sense of the word. That is to say, a street, a park, a mall are all public places where certain decorum is expected but are not places of worship. A place of worship, whether or not, the visitor is practioner of the faith in that place of worsip has no bearing, I submit. One may attend in a Catholic Church or on the grounds immediately outside that church and not be a Catholic, but would still be expected to behave in a manner acceptable to Catholics. I.E. To NOT get up in the middle of a service and starting singing as done in some churches of a....more relaxed atmosphere, shall we say. I refer to churches whose followers are referred to (and I mean no disrespect here) by some as "Holy Rollers" because of the fact that a good portion of their church attendance involves veryh enthusiastic singing and dancing in and around the aisles and pews of their church!

So, may we agree that these young people were dressed inappropriately (at least the shirtless ones) and that their gymnastics (I don't believe that it was 'yoga', although whether or not it was would not alter anything as to acceptability, in my opinion) was unacceptable behaviour on or in a Wat. If not, well............we disagree and must agree to disagree until one or other of us are enlightened)

If we agree, then the only issue left is whether or not it was appropriate for not only the behaviours to be published on such public venues as Facebook, but for their photos to be shown as well. In my humble opinion, I find nothing wrong with this incident being made public and thereby bringing to the attention of persons who otherwise would be ignorant as to the perceived disrespect seen in such behaviour, the wrongfulness of their actions. There are countless examples of incidents being reported upon in the social and other media involving behaviour which has upset someone...and these examples are worldwide in origin, so let's not even suggest that this is limited in any way to Thailand or the Thai people.

As to photos of the "offenders" Again, I refer to the countless examples of publications on Facebook where verbal accounts of an incident together with photographic documentation is provided. Such photographic documentation, to the best of my recollection, has seldom if ever, afforded the people anonymity EXCEPT where the publication has been made by news media such as CNN, for example. Perhaps, if these participants had been expressing any interest in their anonymity, I might be open to the suggestion that their facial features be hidden or blurred as we have seen done by our news media in certain circumstances. Having said that, an argument in favour of rendering their facial features unidentifiable that might more easily win my approval, would be to argue that they did not realize that their actions were disrespectful let alone the degree or gravity of such disrespect. Therefore, while they did commit these acts with full knowledge of them being visible to the public, they should be given the benefit of the doubt and treated as though they would not have acted in this manner had they known! In other words, the punishment should fit the crime!

Bottom line? Publish such incidents without hesitation anywhere, anytime they occur. If you don't complain, you are giving your tacit permission! Complaints don’t have to be made via personal confrontation with “offenders”, and in fact, often such confrontation is best avoided.

Publish visual documentation in support of such incidents in such a manner as to NOT make the "offender(s)" identifiable UNLESS,

1. the act is of such nature that any reasonable person would know it to be wrong. i.e. in the stated example (did it really happen?!) of some guy "publicly defecating" or the story about someone "spitting on a Buddha statue". An even better example is the incident which was videoed, of the mug who physically hassled a tourist because she hadn't rented a beach chair. The video not only documented the crime, made possible identification of the criminal, but led to his arrest and subsequent deportation, none of which, I dare say, would have occurred had the video not been made public. OR
2. the act was knowingly committed in public view AND
3. the person committing the act was "compos mentis" i.e of sound mind...not say, so hammered to the gills that they may not even remember doing the act and would likely never have done so if they had been sober)

[Nakajima]

It doesn't seem that the people running the temple are much bothered about it. Don't know why the person who was outraged is given the time of day by the media. Guess it has been a slow day in the news without anything to report or say.

Tho personally I don't particularly care for the display of whatever newfangled form of performance yoga is being demonstrated, I doubt the people running the temple mind that much about harmless actions that are going on under their radar. If they saw what was happening and didn't like it they would just ask the couple to stop, end of story. I'm sure the temple and all the monks can look after themselves in the face of such abominations. A few years ago I went to the famous white temple in Chiang Rai, Wat Rong Khun, the one designed by the famous Thai painter Chalermchai Kositpipat. When I arrived at the gate I found that a sign had been posted saying, "No foreigners admitted without accompaniment by a Thai National." Tho my Thai wife was dawdling in the cafe and was soon to come along, I didn't want to be admited only because she was with me. I said to the woman selling tickets to get in, "I respect Buddhism, I attend teachings, I meditate and try to behave as recommended by the Buddha, may I please come in and see Chalermchai's wonderful homage to the Dharma?" She said, "OK, never mind. You can come in." So, I'm sure if foreigners present a problem for the temple, they would or could post similar flexible restrictions on who enters the temple. It isn't rocket science to protect one's temple from the perceived offensive actions, attitudes and words of the heedless tourist mobs.

To the person who was outraged, if you feel so strongly about "Buddhism" because you are a "Buddhist," I'm sure that from a Buddhist perspective, its better for your Buddhist practice to tame your mind, read sutras and teachings by contemporary masters, meditate, attend teachings by living masters and help them as well, and try to do actions that directly help those who are suffering. That will do more for "Buddhism," which you seem to think needs your help, than ranting to the media. The Dharma is upheld by those who practice it not by fighting and struggling against non-Buddhists to save it. If people disrespect your "Buddhism" I think the teachings recommend we develop compassion for them, not anger and outrage. If they are truly disrepectful or willfully ignorant of what the Buddha had to say and the advice he had to help beings avoid suffering, they are the ones who will suffer, just as a child who would ignore a parent's warning not to stick their hand into a fire. But if in their hearts the yoga enthusiasts do respect the teachings -and my guess is that as yoga practitioners they are quite likely, at the very least, to be very open to the essence of Dharma- and they have made a mistake, then why bother about it, we all make mistakes. Why not consider that perhaps they, like you, sometimes get carried away and make mistakes? Perhaps they were simply overwhelmed by joy at having encountered a temple dedicated to the Buddha and his teachings? Perhaps like temple dancers, what they are doing represents an offering, we don't know what was their intention of their feeling, so why presume it was something frivolous and disrespectful?

because it was frivolous and disrespecful.

and he just totally ignored your well articulated lengthy post with 2 short minded concepts that others already repeated 100 times adding nothing to this conversation. Conservatives!

[arend]

authoritarianism and freedom

still working it out ...

religious intolerance

still working it out ....

progress and tradition

still working it out ....

globalism and parochialism

still working it out ....

conservative and liberal

still working it out ....

so many dramas, so little time....

Edited January 6, 2015 by arend

[Bluespunk]

Re: AnotherOneAmercican's comment re being amazed at what "some youngsters in the west get up to on the grass outside (otherwise known as the graveyard". No, I wouldn't, but that doesn't make it appropriate where ever 'there' was or here in Thailand!

Re: Bluespunk's "If they are doing something wrong then say so to their face instead of this cowardly, chicken crud online BS outrage campaign", with respect, I suggest that he knows full well that confrontation is not something Thais are comfortable with, especially with "outsiders" except under extreme circumstances. Hell, I'm not comfortable with it either and I'm not Thai. If these youth had been, say, urinating on a statue of Buddha, I would not be surprised if a confrontation (and physical one,at that) was initiated by aThai (joined by falangs, including yours truly, as well!!).

Re: PaddyJenkins "....another racist, over sensitive thai taking their oh so precious culture a little too seriously?" How is it racist to complain about actions one finds offensive? You don't seriously suggest that any person who complains of another's behaviour is a racist simply because they are not of the same race as the "offender"? Over sensitive? In your mind....but not in the mind of many, if not all Thai's I suspect. And, for reasons I will expand upon later, not in my mind either, for I find their actions were offensive! . "precious culture" Hmmmm! A slight tone of some unvoiced resentment, is there? Too seriously. Again, in your mind! "...choice between some Chinese tourist publicly defecating.....some young Thais doing yoga... example of good, clean living people. Looking back over PaddyJenkins comment in its entirety, I get the feeling that ole PaddyJ just might be a tad racist!

and finally

Re: Jeremy50's "They look nice. When will people get off their high horse about religion and national borders." a) Eye of the beholder in the venue seen. Probably never!! I gave up a long time answering the question as to where I was from by saying "I'm an Earthman from this World" and as to what religon I espouse "Agnosticism". Now I will be as forthcoming on either question as any listeners and circumstances desire or will allow.

The credo "when in Rome......" contains sage advice for the most part. That doesn't mean assuming the bad traits of your chosen country to live, but it does mean respecting and abiding by cultural mores as well as the laws of the land. Walking around on the beach shirtless is perfectly okay! Walking around shirtless elsewhere is usually frowned upon and, I believe, that it can result in a modest fine if a police officer were so inclined as to enforce the law with regard to one's attire in the public areas. Walking around shirtless (not sure about tight leotards as to acceptability.....someone more knowledgeable than I might put in a word about that?) anywhere within a Wat is, I believe, totally unacceptable! If you have visited the "Big Buddha" in Chalong, you will have noted that, prior to entering the grounds proper, proper dressware is required and any clothing required to bring the visitor up to the required dress code is provided free of charge. While performing yoga in a public venue would not be frowned upon except where doing so would interfere with traffic or people in that public venue, a Wat is NOT what I would think of as being a "public" place in the usual sense of the word. That is to say, a street, a park, a mall are all public places where certain decorum is expected but are not places of worship. A place of worship, whether or not, the visitor is practioner of the faith in that place of worsip has no bearing, I submit. One may attend in a Catholic Church or on the grounds immediately outside that church and not be a Catholic, but would still be expected to behave in a manner acceptable to Catholics. I.E. To NOT get up in the middle of a service and starting singing as done in some churches of a....more relaxed atmosphere, shall we say. I refer to churches whose followers are referred to (and I mean no disrespect here) by some as "Holy Rollers" because of the fact that a good portion of their church attendance involves veryh enthusiastic singing and dancing in and around the aisles and pews of their church!

So, may we agree that these young people were dressed inappropriately (at least the shirtless ones) and that their gymnastics (I don't believe that it was 'yoga', although whether or not it was would not alter anything as to acceptability, in my opinion) was unacceptable behaviour on or in a Wat. If not, well............we disagree and must agree to disagree until one or other of us are enlightened)

If we agree, then the only issue left is whether or not it was appropriate for not only the behaviours to be published on such public venues as Facebook, but for their photos to be shown as well. In my humble opinion, I find nothing wrong with this incident being made public and thereby bringing to the attention of persons who otherwise would be ignorant as to the perceived disrespect seen in such behaviour, the wrongfulness of their actions. There are countless examples of incidents being reported upon in the social and other media involving behaviour which has upset someone...and these examples are worldwide in origin, so let's not even suggest that this is limited in any way to Thailand or the Thai people.

As to photos of the "offenders" Again, I refer to the countless examples of publications on Facebook where verbal accounts of an incident together with photographic documentation is provided. Such photographic documentation, to the best of my recollection, has seldom if ever, afforded the people anonymity EXCEPT where the publication has been made by news media such as CNN, for example. Perhaps, if these participants had been expressing any interest in their anonymity, I might be open to the suggestion that their facial features be hidden or blurred as we have seen done by our news media in certain circumstances. Having said that, an argument in favour of rendering their facial features unidentifiable that might more easily win my approval, would be to argue that they did not realize that their actions were disrespectful let alone the degree or gravity of such disrespect. Therefore, while they did commit these acts with full knowledge of them being visible to the public, they should be given the benefit of the doubt and treated as though they would not have acted in this manner had they known! In other words, the punishment should fit the crime!

Bottom line? Publish such incidents without hesitation anywhere, anytime they occur. If you don't complain, you are giving your tacit permission! Complaints don’t have to be made via personal confrontation with “offenders”, and in fact, often such confrontation is best avoided.

Publish visual documentation in support of such incidents in such a manner as to NOT make the "offender(s)" identifiable UNLESS,

1. the act is of such nature that any reasonable person would know it to be wrong. i.e. in the stated example (did it really happen?!) of some guy "publicly defecating" or the story about someone "spitting on a Buddha statue". An even better example is the incident which was videoed, of the mug who physically hassled a tourist because she hadn't rented a beach chair. The video not only documented the crime, made possible identification of the criminal, but led to his arrest and subsequent deportation, none of which, I dare say, would have occurred had the video not been made public. OR
2. the act was knowingly committed in public view AND
3. the person committing the act is "compos mentis" i.e of sound mind...not say, so hammered to the gills that they may not even remember doing the act and would likely never have done so if they had been sober)

With respect, there is no need to be confrontational when politely pointing out when someone is being insensitive. Seen it happen at temples in past when people dressed inappropriately. It is doable and is done.

To take offense and do nothing at the time, but then post it on line later is the actions of a 'behind your back finger pointing gossip'.

It is cowardly and contemptible.

You don't like something then say so. To the persons face. Politely. In a non confrontational manner.

If they then ignore you, fair enough, post away.

[lucifer666]

What country is Yoga, The Kama Sutra and Lord Gautama Buddha from?

Just sayin'...

Ummmm, India. Your point being ?

[AYJAYDEE]

Re: AnotherOneAmercican's comment re being amazed at what "some youngsters in the west get up to on the grass outside (otherwise known as the graveyard". No, I wouldn't, but that doesn't make it appropriate where ever 'there' was or here in Thailand!

Re: Bluespunk's "If they are doing something wrong then say so to their face instead of this cowardly, chicken crud online BS outrage campaign", with respect, I suggest that he knows full well that confrontation is not something Thais are comfortable with, especially with "outsiders" except under extreme circumstances. Hell, I'm not comfortable with it either and I'm not Thai. If these youth had been, say, urinating on a statue of Buddha, I would not be surprised if a confrontation (and physical one,at that) was initiated by aThai (joined by falangs, including yours truly, as well!!).

Re: PaddyJenkins "....another racist, over sensitive thai taking their oh so precious culture a little too seriously?" How is it racist to complain about actions one finds offensive? You don't seriously suggest that any person who complains of another's behaviour is a racist simply because they are not of the same race as the "offender"? Over sensitive? In your mind....but not in the mind of many, if not all Thai's I suspect. And, for reasons I will expand upon later, not in my mind either, for I find their actions were offensive! . "precious culture" Hmmmm! A slight tone of some unvoiced resentment, is there? Too seriously. Again, in your mind! "...choice between some Chinese tourist publicly defecating.....some young Thais doing yoga... example of good, clean living people. Looking back over PaddyJenkins comment in its entirety, I get the feeling that ole PaddyJ just might be a tad racist!

and finally

Re: Jeremy50's "They look nice. When will people get off their high horse about religion and national borders." a) Eye of the beholder in the venue seen. Probably never!! I gave up a long time answering the question as to where I was from by saying "I'm an Earthman from this World" and as to what religon I espouse "Agnosticism". Now I will be as forthcoming on either question as any listeners and circumstances desire or will allow.

The credo "when in Rome......" contains sage advice for the most part. That doesn't mean assuming the bad traits of your chosen country to live, but it does mean respecting and abiding by cultural mores as well as the laws of the land. Walking around on the beach shirtless is perfectly okay! Walking around shirtless elsewhere is usually frowned upon and, I believe, that it can result in a modest fine if a police officer were so inclined as to enforce the law with regard to one's attire in the public areas. Walking around shirtless (not sure about tight leotards as to acceptability.....someone more knowledgeable than I might put in a word about that?) anywhere within a Wat is, I believe, totally unacceptable! If you have visited the "Big Buddha" in Chalong, you will have noted that, prior to entering the grounds proper, proper dressware is required and any clothing required to bring the visitor up to the required dress code is provided free of charge. While performing yoga in a public venue would not be frowned upon except where doing so would interfere with traffic or people in that public venue, a Wat is NOT what I would think of as being a "public" place in the usual sense of the word. That is to say, a street, a park, a mall are all public places where certain decorum is expected but are not places of worship. A place of worship, whether or not, the visitor is practioner of the faith in that place of worsip has no bearing, I submit. One may attend in a Catholic Church or on the grounds immediately outside that church and not be a Catholic, but would still be expected to behave in a manner acceptable to Catholics. I.E. To NOT get up in the middle of a service and starting singing as done in some churches of a....more relaxed atmosphere, shall we say. I refer to churches whose followers are referred to (and I mean no disrespect here) by some as "Holy Rollers" because of the fact that a good portion of their church attendance involves veryh enthusiastic singing and dancing in and around the aisles and pews of their church!

So, may we agree that these young people were dressed inappropriately (at least the shirtless ones) and that their gymnastics (I don't believe that it was 'yoga', although whether or not it was would not alter anything as to acceptability, in my opinion) was unacceptable behaviour on or in a Wat. If not, well............we disagree and must agree to disagree until one or other of us are enlightened)

If we agree, then the only issue left is whether or not it was appropriate for not only the behaviours to be published on such public venues as Facebook, but for their photos to be shown as well. In my humble opinion, I find nothing wrong with this incident being made public and thereby bringing to the attention of persons who otherwise would be ignorant as to the perceived disrespect seen in such behaviour, the wrongfulness of their actions. There are countless examples of incidents being reported upon in the social and other media involving behaviour which has upset someone...and these examples are worldwide in origin, so let's not even suggest that this is limited in any way to Thailand or the Thai people.

As to photos of the "offenders" Again, I refer to the countless examples of publications on Facebook where verbal accounts of an incident together with photographic documentation is provided. Such photographic documentation, to the best of my recollection, has seldom if ever, afforded the people anonymity EXCEPT where the publication has been made by news media such as CNN, for example. Perhaps, if these participants had been expressing any interest in their anonymity, I might be open to the suggestion that their facial features be hidden or blurred as we have seen done by our news media in certain circumstances. Having said that, an argument in favour of rendering their facial features unidentifiable that might more easily win my approval, would be to argue that they did not realize that their actions were disrespectful let alone the degree or gravity of such disrespect. Therefore, while they did commit these acts with full knowledge of them being visible to the public, they should be given the benefit of the doubt and treated as though they would not have acted in this manner had they known! In other words, the punishment should fit the crime!

Bottom line? Publish such incidents without hesitation anywhere, anytime they occur. If you don't complain, you are giving your tacit permission! Complaints don’t have to be made via personal confrontation with “offenders”, and in fact, often such confrontation is best avoided.

Publish visual documentation in support of such incidents in such a manner as to NOT make the "offender(s)" identifiable UNLESS,

1. the act is of such nature that any reasonable person would know it to be wrong. i.e. in the stated example (did it really happen?!) of some guy "publicly defecating" or the story about someone "spitting on a Buddha statue". An even better example is the incident which was videoed, of the mug who physically hassled a tourist because she hadn't rented a beach chair. The video not only documented the crime, made possible identification of the criminal, but led to his arrest and subsequent deportation, none of which, I dare say, would have occurred had the video not been made public. OR
2. the act was knowingly committed in public view AND
3. the person committing the act is "compos mentis" i.e of sound mind...not say, so hammered to the gills that they may not even remember doing the act and would likely never have done so if they had been sober)

With respect, there is no need to be confrontational when politely pointing out when someone is being insensitive. Seen it happen at temples in past when people dressed inappropriately. It is doable and is done.

To take offense and do nothing at the time, but then post it on line later is the actions of a 'behind your back finger pointing gossip'.

It is cowardly and contemptible.

You don't like something then say so. To the persons face. Politely. In a non confrontational manner.

If they then ignore you, fair enough, post away.

most thais consider that to be confrontation and are not comfortable doing that. expecting them to act in the same manner as you think proper is arrogant

[dezeure]

Another example of an overreaction by a Thai.

Not at all. I rather suspect the tourists wouldn't act the same way in a church, mosque or synagogue in their home country. Why should they even think it's remotely acceptable in a Buddhist temple?

They are also both dressed inappropriately to visit a temple. They have obviously spent no time learning about local ways and are completely devoid of any cultural sensitivity.

LOL they are NOT inside the white temple, and not even in the temple sacred domain which starts when you walk over the bridge across the water where it says entry... They are just outside that on the grass and you should see what tourists do on the lawns in front of cathedrals and churches all over Europe...

Just another Farang-hating Thai who found something to comment on...

And as mentioned, where do you think Yoga is coming from?

[Bluespunk]

Re: AnotherOneAmercican's comment re being amazed at what "some youngsters in the west get up to on the grass outside (otherwise known as the graveyard". No, I wouldn't, but that doesn't make it appropriate where ever 'there' was or here in Thailand!

Re: Bluespunk's "If they are doing something wrong then say so to their face instead of this cowardly, chicken crud online BS outrage campaign", with respect, I suggest that he knows full well that confrontation is not something Thais are comfortable with, especially with "outsiders" except under extreme circumstances. Hell, I'm not comfortable with it either and I'm not Thai. If these youth had been, say, urinating on a statue of Buddha, I would not be surprised if a confrontation (and physical one,at that) was initiated by aThai (joined by falangs, including yours truly, as well!!).

Re: PaddyJenkins "....another racist, over sensitive thai taking their oh so precious culture a little too seriously?" How is it racist to complain about actions one finds offensive? You don't seriously suggest that any person who complains of another's behaviour is a racist simply because they are not of the same race as the "offender"? Over sensitive? In your mind....but not in the mind of many, if not all Thai's I suspect. And, for reasons I will expand upon later, not in my mind either, for I find their actions were offensive! . "precious culture" Hmmmm! A slight tone of some unvoiced resentment, is there? Too seriously. Again, in your mind! "...choice between some Chinese tourist publicly defecating.....some young Thais doing yoga... example of good, clean living people. Looking back over PaddyJenkins comment in its entirety, I get the feeling that ole PaddyJ just might be a tad racist!

and finally

Re: Jeremy50's "They look nice. When will people get off their high horse about religion and national borders." a) Eye of the beholder in the venue seen. Probably never!! I gave up a long time answering the question as to where I was from by saying "I'm an Earthman from this World" and as to what religon I espouse "Agnosticism". Now I will be as forthcoming on either question as any listeners and circumstances desire or will allow.

The credo "when in Rome......" contains sage advice for the most part. That doesn't mean assuming the bad traits of your chosen country to live, but it does mean respecting and abiding by cultural mores as well as the laws of the land. Walking around on the beach shirtless is perfectly okay! Walking around shirtless elsewhere is usually frowned upon and, I believe, that it can result in a modest fine if a police officer were so inclined as to enforce the law with regard to one's attire in the public areas. Walking around shirtless (not sure about tight leotards as to acceptability.....someone more knowledgeable than I might put in a word about that?) anywhere within a Wat is, I believe, totally unacceptable! If you have visited the "Big Buddha" in Chalong, you will have noted that, prior to entering the grounds proper, proper dressware is required and any clothing required to bring the visitor up to the required dress code is provided free of charge. While performing yoga in a public venue would not be frowned upon except where doing so would interfere with traffic or people in that public venue, a Wat is NOT what I would think of as being a "public" place in the usual sense of the word. That is to say, a street, a park, a mall are all public places where certain decorum is expected but are not places of worship. A place of worship, whether or not, the visitor is practioner of the faith in that place of worsip has no bearing, I submit. One may attend in a Catholic Church or on the grounds immediately outside that church and not be a Catholic, but would still be expected to behave in a manner acceptable to Catholics. I.E. To NOT get up in the middle of a service and starting singing as done in some churches of a....more relaxed atmosphere, shall we say. I refer to churches whose followers are referred to (and I mean no disrespect here) by some as "Holy Rollers" because of the fact that a good portion of their church attendance involves veryh enthusiastic singing and dancing in and around the aisles and pews of their church!

So, may we agree that these young people were dressed inappropriately (at least the shirtless ones) and that their gymnastics (I don't believe that it was 'yoga', although whether or not it was would not alter anything as to acceptability, in my opinion) was unacceptable behaviour on or in a Wat. If not, well............we disagree and must agree to disagree until one or other of us are enlightened)

If we agree, then the only issue left is whether or not it was appropriate for not only the behaviours to be published on such public venues as Facebook, but for their photos to be shown as well. In my humble opinion, I find nothing wrong with this incident being made public and thereby bringing to the attention of persons who otherwise would be ignorant as to the perceived disrespect seen in such behaviour, the wrongfulness of their actions. There are countless examples of incidents being reported upon in the social and other media involving behaviour which has upset someone...and these examples are worldwide in origin, so let's not even suggest that this is limited in any way to Thailand or the Thai people.

As to photos of the "offenders" Again, I refer to the countless examples of publications on Facebook where verbal accounts of an incident together with photographic documentation is provided. Such photographic documentation, to the best of my recollection, has seldom if ever, afforded the people anonymity EXCEPT where the publication has been made by news media such as CNN, for example. Perhaps, if these participants had been expressing any interest in their anonymity, I might be open to the suggestion that their facial features be hidden or blurred as we have seen done by our news media in certain circumstances. Having said that, an argument in favour of rendering their facial features unidentifiable that might more easily win my approval, would be to argue that they did not realize that their actions were disrespectful let alone the degree or gravity of such disrespect. Therefore, while they did commit these acts with full knowledge of them being visible to the public, they should be given the benefit of the doubt and treated as though they would not have acted in this manner had they known! In other words, the punishment should fit the crime!

Bottom line? Publish such incidents without hesitation anywhere, anytime they occur. If you don't complain, you are giving your tacit permission! Complaints don’t have to be made via personal confrontation with “offenders”, and in fact, often such confrontation is best avoided.

Publish visual documentation in support of such incidents in such a manner as to NOT make the "offender(s)" identifiable UNLESS,

1. the act is of such nature that any reasonable person would know it to be wrong. i.e. in the stated example (did it really happen?!) of some guy "publicly defecating" or the story about someone "spitting on a Buddha statue". An even better example is the incident which was videoed, of the mug who physically hassled a tourist because she hadn't rented a beach chair. The video not only documented the crime, made possible identification of the criminal, but led to his arrest and subsequent deportation, none of which, I dare say, would have occurred had the video not been made public. OR
2. the act was knowingly committed in public view AND
3. the person committing the act is "compos mentis" i.e of sound mind...not say, so hammered to the gills that they may not even remember doing the act and would likely never have done so if they had been sober)

With respect, there is no need to be confrontational when politely pointing out when someone is being insensitive. Seen it happen at temples in past when people dressed inappropriately. It is doable and is done.

To take offense and do nothing at the time, but then post it on line later is the actions of a 'behind your back finger pointing gossip'.

It is cowardly and contemptible.

You don't like something then say so. To the persons face. Politely. In a non confrontational manner.

If they then ignore you, fair enough, post away.

most thais consider that to be confrontation and are not comfortable doing that. expecting them to act in the same manner as you think proper is arrogant

Yeah.

You said already.

I answered already.

Next

[DM07]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

You appear very offended by what some other people (Thais) feel and express online. Maybe you should go and tell them instead of whining online .... which is an action that seems to offend you ... or take your own advise.

And you know for certain, that I don't do that- many times, actually?

[DM07]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

All Buddhists would find that offensive

Look at the outrage from some idiot foreigners when a few schoolkids dressed up as Hitler. The Israeli Embassy even got involved I think.

.I've gone up to two Thai people and told them that I was offended as they were wearing the sex pistols "God save the Queen"t-shirt. One didn't give a toss but the middle aged woman was very embarrassed. Another young guy who was wearing an anarchy sign was shocked when I told him what an anarchist believes.

a) all Buddhists find what offensive? The toilets ( I spoke to some, who couldn't care less)? The Punk (dito!)? Or the Yoga?

b ) Oh boy...here we go again: surely there is no difference between a psychotic mass murderer, who brought new meaning to the term "industrialized killing" and 2 hippies doing yoga on a lawn, somewhere near a temple, right?! Do the words :"content matters" mean anything to you?

c) You were offended by a Sex Pistols- shirt? Yeah...I point you back at Stephen Fry! Especially the "well, so <deleted< what?" - part

Edited January 6, 2015 by DM07

[Luxfare]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

The first sensible post on here. If thais are offended by this yoga they have to stop having morlum sexy girl concerts , stop drinking low kao and beer ,stop fighting in all of the temples all of which i see on a monthly basis. I think most of the righteous drivel is from farangs in and south of bangkok who have never seen the real thailand.

My wife`s brother became a monk because his wife threw him out for adultery and he had nowhere to live. He was then thrown out of the village temple when he was seen with a woman drinking whisky and is now in a temple in udon thani where he tells me the monks sell drugs (same as the police in my village). Went to visit him one night and ended up in the town with a few monks who had changed clothes and went with us eating and drinking. Met a monk on the bus covered in tatoos who told me he had not long come out of jail for murder and since had committed more offences so became a monk to prevent the police from arresting him and said there were a lot of thais who just became monks because they were homeless or to avoid being arrested.

Thais need to clean up their own act before they criticise others for minor things . Have attached a few more photos of concert in the local temple with sexy dancers ,rubbish thrown around the buddha statue and giant sacred tree and the drunks fighting. The last photo of a man and woman having intercourse when the young boy turned the handle was offensive and embarrassing to me and should never have gone into the temple. One of the girl dancers i know and is only 14.

What is offensive to thais is farangs coming half way around the world to pay for sex with young girls and is also illegal but that would not bother most of you as much as this yoga thing

sex on a truck.JPG

This is the same in every temple i have been to north of korat. How aboout posting these photos on the thai website and ask them how they allow this to go on in their temples ,and every thai has been to these concerts and know they go on.p1.JPG2.JPG3.JPG5.JPG6.JPG

So by your reasoning if someone does something wrong then everyone can do it? How do you know the people criticizing this couple don't try and clean up other temples and show the bad monks for what they are.

Your opinion suggests it's ok to do wrong if other do it...which is rather blinkered don't you think?

[thailiketoo]

With respect, there is no need to be confrontational when politely pointing out when someone is being insensitive. Seen it happen at temples in past when people dressed inappropriately. It is doable and is done.

To take offense and do nothing at the time, but then post it on line later is the actions of a 'behind your back finger pointing gossip'.

It is cowardly and contemptible.

You don't like something then say so. To the persons face. Politely. In a non confrontational manner.

If they then ignore you, fair enough, post away.

As far as I can see you are looking for two guys. The one who put it on Facebook (I told you how to find him) and the guy who owns CM 108.com. One of the computer guru's here should be able to tell you how to find him. Stop this contemptible and cowardly internet posting and give these guys a heads up in person; like you said the people should have done at the Wat. Unless you just want to talk the talk and not walk the walk.

Edited January 6, 2015 by thailiketoo

[AYJAYDEE]

Re: AnotherOneAmercican's comment re being amazed at what "some youngsters in the west get up to on the grass outside (otherwise known as the graveyard". No, I wouldn't, but that doesn't make it appropriate where ever 'there' was or here in Thailand!

Re: Bluespunk's "If they are doing something wrong then say so to their face instead of this cowardly, chicken crud online BS outrage campaign", with respect, I suggest that he knows full well that confrontation is not something Thais are comfortable with, especially with "outsiders" except under extreme circumstances. Hell, I'm not comfortable with it either and I'm not Thai. If these youth had been, say, urinating on a statue of Buddha, I would not be surprised if a confrontation (and physical one,at that) was initiated by aThai (joined by falangs, including yours truly, as well!!).

Re: PaddyJenkins "....another racist, over sensitive thai taking their oh so precious culture a little too seriously?" How is it racist to complain about actions one finds offensive? You don't seriously suggest that any person who complains of another's behaviour is a racist simply because they are not of the same race as the "offender"? Over sensitive? In your mind....but not in the mind of many, if not all Thai's I suspect. And, for reasons I will expand upon later, not in my mind either, for I find their actions were offensive! . "precious culture" Hmmmm! A slight tone of some unvoiced resentment, is there? Too seriously. Again, in your mind! "...choice between some Chinese tourist publicly defecating.....some young Thais doing yoga... example of good, clean living people. Looking back over PaddyJenkins comment in its entirety, I get the feeling that ole PaddyJ just might be a tad racist!

and finally

Re: Jeremy50's "They look nice. When will people get off their high horse about religion and national borders." a) Eye of the beholder in the venue seen. Probably never!! I gave up a long time answering the question as to where I was from by saying "I'm an Earthman from this World" and as to what religon I espouse "Agnosticism". Now I will be as forthcoming on either question as any listeners and circumstances desire or will allow.

The credo "when in Rome......" contains sage advice for the most part. That doesn't mean assuming the bad traits of your chosen country to live, but it does mean respecting and abiding by cultural mores as well as the laws of the land. Walking around on the beach shirtless is perfectly okay! Walking around shirtless elsewhere is usually frowned upon and, I believe, that it can result in a modest fine if a police officer were so inclined as to enforce the law with regard to one's attire in the public areas. Walking around shirtless (not sure about tight leotards as to acceptability.....someone more knowledgeable than I might put in a word about that?) anywhere within a Wat is, I believe, totally unacceptable! If you have visited the "Big Buddha" in Chalong, you will have noted that, prior to entering the grounds proper, proper dressware is required and any clothing required to bring the visitor up to the required dress code is provided free of charge. While performing yoga in a public venue would not be frowned upon except where doing so would interfere with traffic or people in that public venue, a Wat is NOT what I would think of as being a "public" place in the usual sense of the word. That is to say, a street, a park, a mall are all public places where certain decorum is expected but are not places of worship. A place of worship, whether or not, the visitor is practioner of the faith in that place of worsip has no bearing, I submit. One may attend in a Catholic Church or on the grounds immediately outside that church and not be a Catholic, but would still be expected to behave in a manner acceptable to Catholics. I.E. To NOT get up in the middle of a service and starting singing as done in some churches of a....more relaxed atmosphere, shall we say. I refer to churches whose followers are referred to (and I mean no disrespect here) by some as "Holy Rollers" because of the fact that a good portion of their church attendance involves veryh enthusiastic singing and dancing in and around the aisles and pews of their church!

So, may we agree that these young people were dressed inappropriately (at least the shirtless ones) and that their gymnastics (I don't believe that it was 'yoga', although whether or not it was would not alter anything as to acceptability, in my opinion) was unacceptable behaviour on or in a Wat. If not, well............we disagree and must agree to disagree until one or other of us are enlightened)

If we agree, then the only issue left is whether or not it was appropriate for not only the behaviours to be published on such public venues as Facebook, but for their photos to be shown as well. In my humble opinion, I find nothing wrong with this incident being made public and thereby bringing to the attention of persons who otherwise would be ignorant as to the perceived disrespect seen in such behaviour, the wrongfulness of their actions. There are countless examples of incidents being reported upon in the social and other media involving behaviour which has upset someone...and these examples are worldwide in origin, so let's not even suggest that this is limited in any way to Thailand or the Thai people.

As to photos of the "offenders" Again, I refer to the countless examples of publications on Facebook where verbal accounts of an incident together with photographic documentation is provided. Such photographic documentation, to the best of my recollection, has seldom if ever, afforded the people anonymity EXCEPT where the publication has been made by news media such as CNN, for example. Perhaps, if these participants had been expressing any interest in their anonymity, I might be open to the suggestion that their facial features be hidden or blurred as we have seen done by our news media in certain circumstances. Having said that, an argument in favour of rendering their facial features unidentifiable that might more easily win my approval, would be to argue that they did not realize that their actions were disrespectful let alone the degree or gravity of such disrespect. Therefore, while they did commit these acts with full knowledge of them being visible to the public, they should be given the benefit of the doubt and treated as though they would not have acted in this manner had they known! In other words, the punishment should fit the crime!

Bottom line? Publish such incidents without hesitation anywhere, anytime they occur. If you don't complain, you are giving your tacit permission! Complaints don’t have to be made via personal confrontation with “offenders”, and in fact, often such confrontation is best avoided.

Publish visual documentation in support of such incidents in such a manner as to NOT make the "offender(s)" identifiable UNLESS,

1. the act is of such nature that any reasonable person would know it to be wrong. i.e. in the stated example (did it really happen?!) of some guy "publicly defecating" or the story about someone "spitting on a Buddha statue". An even better example is the incident which was videoed, of the mug who physically hassled a tourist because she hadn't rented a beach chair. The video not only documented the crime, made possible identification of the criminal, but led to his arrest and subsequent deportation, none of which, I dare say, would have occurred had the video not been made public. OR
2. the act was knowingly committed in public view AND
3. the person committing the act is "compos mentis" i.e of sound mind...not say, so hammered to the gills that they may not even remember doing the act and would likely never have done so if they had been sober)

With respect, there is no need to be confrontational when politely pointing out when someone is being insensitive. Seen it happen at temples in past when people dressed inappropriately. It is doable and is done.

To take offense and do nothing at the time, but then post it on line later is the actions of a 'behind your back finger pointing gossip'.

It is cowardly and contemptible.

You don't like something then say so. To the persons face. Politely. In a non confrontational manner.

If they then ignore you, fair enough, post away.

most thais consider that to be confrontation and are not comfortable doing that. expecting them to act in the same manner as you think proper is arrogant

Yeah.

You said already.

I answered already.

Next

obviously, youre a slow learner