Driving in Thailand is NOT so bad

[Tonto21]

I drive both biggish bike and pickup in Thailand and my view of driving and riding here is mixed. On the one hand I have absolutely no problem or fear when driving and riding here, I am only to aware of how fast things go wrong on the roads.

I think the level of competence by Thai road users swings from one end of the spectrum to the other, with no rule of thumb to indicate who the idiots are! Have to admit I like riding my bike in Thailand and I have found the level of awareness by car and pickup drivers is higher than that of a lot of countries I have ridden in. I put that down to near everyone here starts out on a scooter............ However I am aware that just because they see me, that doesn't mean they won't carve me up!

I've never in 8 years had an incident, (bonehead driving)............... Until about 2 months ago.

I'll try and keep this short, driving home north on the 107, far side of Mae Rim heading for Mae Taeng. Heavy rain, night, doing about 100 km h I just managed to glimpse a scooter, via the overhead street lamps ahead of me crossing diagonally left to right, Heading for the 'U' turn...............it had no lights on and we were on a collision course, (I'm talking 5 seconds out) If I had maintained my speed and direction I would have 'T' boned her.....(yes I could even see it was a woman) no doubt about it I would have spread her all over the road! I try and move to the left, (I'm in the outside lane)....... She changes direction, goes right, (pointing at me now) I go right....... Then total loss of control on the slick wet road, we start to spin, I now don't even know if I've hit her or not...... we hit the centre reservation, just past the 'U' turn opening, (high curb, about 3 feet tall) with the passenger front side, we slam into a concrete post right on the passenger door hinges, the door pops open, we are springing hard, my wife is coming out under the seat belt and her lower legs are out of the door, (I would not have believed possible if I didn't see it myself)................. Anyway we came to a stop in the hedge, both fine, we missed the bike rider..... She stayed to watch the show then drove of when I got out of the pickup. The thing is still being repaired, I was also fined 400 Baht for destroying government property, concrete sign post. In hindsight I feel we were very lucky, we could have spun through the 'U' turn opening into oncoming traffic.... Would have been game over...

You can only ever be prepared so much for boneheads in other vehicles, I treat all other road users as idiots, when I can see them!

[maswov]

Sorry, had to stop when you said "... the empirical evidence does not support the conclusion while the hard statistics do." Those statistics are not accurate as many of the accidents are settled with a cash transactions without insurance involvement or police reports made. As they say, if it is not on paper it did not happen.

[Tchooptip]

I came back for a look at the comments to this post and am now laughing my derriere off ("derriere" sounds a lot more erudite than "<deleted>"). So predictable. The comments roughly follow the same split as among my farang friends here.

There are those that hate driving here and foam at the mouth over the lack of law enforcement and perceived lawlessness on the road. These folks do not want to be confused by the numbers, as they have their dogmas to give them all the guiding light they require.

On the other side are those who love and thrive on the semi-anarchy (freedom) here, are not threatened by it and wouldn't trade it for anything.

I often wonder what it is about Thailand that holds those in the former group. Is it the sex?

''and foam at the mouth over the lack of law enforcement''

Illustration daily here

[moe666]

Let me know when you have an accident that wasnt your fault and are left paralysed or dead and tell me how the statistics

seem then.

Im going to add I have never seen so many cars upside down in ditches or cut in half anywhere else, every trip from BKK to Hua Hin there is always one often enough a whole coach or lorry, Police man who comes to our land told me 50 accidents with fatalities at the junction outside his police box in 10 years odd, the car driver isnt always ok but obviously has more protection than any bike.

Id say about 60-40% of the accidents I have seen are car -car. or car -ditch lorry- ditch and then motorcycles 40%

I have driven or rode my motorbike over a large portion of Thailand and on part of the route you mention to Hau Hin and all of the ks driven or ridden have only seen about 5 accidents and none on the Hau Hin route. Maybe I drive in an alternate universe than you do but have found driving and riding in Thailand to be fairly safe.

[villagefarang]

You can mark me down as someone who loves driving in Thailand but then again I live roughly 55 km from Chiang Rai and do most of my driving on lovely country roads, not stuck in traffic. I have a few different routes I can take and often go in on one and back on another.

“Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.” I like this line and really don’t get those who are obsessed with rules.

It should be said I don’t like driving at night and would never do 100 kmh, in heavy rain, at night, especially in an inhabited area with cross traffic or village life which might include children, old people, animals or farm equipment.

Edited January 7, 2015 by villagefarang

[1FinickyOne]

What makes driving here bad for me is not so much that I am afraid of dying in my small fort, but that one of those kids on the motorcycle is going to inch forward at the intersection, and the person next to him sees the movement, thinks it is ok to go, then pulls into the road in front of me… or 100 other possible scenarios that keeps me on heightened alert… and leads to less enjoyable motoring…

[Gulfsailor]

Do your number take into account the way the ROAD statics are recorded in Thailand? I am of the understanding that unless you are DEAD at the SEEN in THAILAND, it is NOT counted as a ROAD DEATH.

If you die later on route to the hospital or in the hospital then it's not attributed.

I've read that the ROAD death numbers are actually therefor under reported some international bodies saying as little as 1/3 - 1/4 of actual deaths cause on the road attributed to it.

I think we have to assume that the numbers in this report are indicative of the situation in Thailand, taking into account deaths up to a certain amount after the accident resulting in this death. You are right that Thai government statistics are calculated differently though, only counting deaths at the scene. But that official Thai (source DLT) number has hovered between 11 and 12 deaths per 100,000.

[BradinAsia]

Op, commute in Chiang Mai then come back and tell me how not so bad the driving is. Driving is only pleasant here when there are no other road users on your stretch. Eyes need to be absolutely peeled every second because the propensity for someone to do something completely nuts is ever-present. Done at least 150,000 miles in Thailand in all areas.

I live in Chiang Mai and the only significant traffic problem I see is that it's a lot heavier than it used to be.

As far as the drivers here, they are generally more sensible and courteous than most places I've lived.

Driving here (in Chiang Mai, not Bangkok) is a piece of cake compared to the Philippines. And compared

to the U.S., I would estimate that road rage is about 97.6% less.

The nastiest drivers I've seen in Chiang Mai are farang. They (especially my American countrymen) have

this etched-in-stone legal idea about right-of-way -- and they are obsessed with imposing their nonsense

alien ideas on the unsuspecting locals, including yours truly.

By the way, to me, the TV expression TIT most often means more sensible than elsewhere (farangland).

As the OP so eloquently expressed, "Thais are much more pragmatic." They have learned to get from A

to B with the least amount of risk and hassle. And, in Chiang Mai (unlike the U.S.) we don't get harassed

by the police for every minor benign infraction (or perceived infraction) of traffic laws. I much prefer the

BIB over the police in the U.S. with their overly aggressive behavior and I-am-next-to-God attitude.

That's the way I see traffic here in Chiang Mai. The experience of others may vary, especially when you

factor in all the impractical excess baggage of alien ideas that many farang have brought with them.

[StasD]

Just know some rules:

1. Dog never lets you go

2. If car is getting to show turn it does not mean it is going to turn, it means it is turning already

3. Thai drivers can fall asleep even in noon

Edited January 7, 2015 by StasD

[neverdie]

Deaths isn't the only thing one should consider.

Serious injury mvc's should be your concern too. For every death there's probably 10 people with a range of flecked up injuries, some that last for a lifetime.

My uncle lost his arm and he was a professional pianist. Pretty flecked up really.

[Lenn]

Thailand among the most dangerous countries when it comes to traffic.

One of the most dangerous countries in the world traffic is Thailand. Here is the death rate of 38.1 per 100 000 inhabitants. Only country in the world that has more dangerous traffic is the Dominican Republic, with a mortality rate of 41.7. Sweden is one the safest countries with 3 deaths per 100 000 population, only Iceland is better with 2.8.

SO MY FRIEND. TAKE AWAY NOT ONLY THE MOTORBIKES BUT EVEN THE CARS FROM THE THAI STATISTICS AND EVEN THAILAND CAN BE QUITE SAFE!

[Estrada]

I agree Thailand is not so bad to drive in when you get used to it... organized madness in someways,

One thing I would like Thai drivers to adopt is over taking on the right lane only (like in the UK) and not undertaking, I do find the whole over taking in any lane a bit dangerous and most of the problems I see stem from this. I also would like to see motorbikes have both lights active not just the front light, up here in north Thailand most bikes just have a front light and the rear light is often off, I was told by a Thai mate that alot of the younger riders actually think its cool to disconnect the rear light.

Driving down the wrong side of the road on the hard shoulder both cars and bikes is also something that should be stopped in my opinion but hey in the UK everything is so safe on the roads it actually becomes unsafe in some ways, plus driving in the UK seems so boring now.

One thing I would say, having drove for a year in Bangkok then a year up north in Sarakham, its a quite different, Bangkok being pretty unforgiving and a race for every meter of road which to me seemed alot more dangerous than here,

Interesting post anyway

I recently came back from Pattaya to Bangkok and there were no vehicles on the inside lane for 3kms, a few in the second lane and 3rd lanes and most travelling bumper to bumper in the outside lane at 100km/hr. Until someone teaches them that the outside lanes are not V.I.P and Elite lanes it is safer to cruise on the inside lane where there is no traffic.

[Estrada]

Thailand among the most dangerous countries when it comes to traffic.

One of the most dangerous countries in the world traffic is Thailand. Here is the death rate of 38.1 per 100 000 inhabitants. Only country in the world that has more dangerous traffic is the Dominican Republic, with a mortality rate of 41.7. Sweden is one the safest countries with 3 deaths per 100 000 population, only Iceland is better with 2.8.

SO MY FRIEND. TAKE AWAY NOT ONLY THE MOTORBIKES BUT EVEN THE CARS FROM THE THAI STATISTICS AND EVEN THAILAND CAN BE QUITE SAFE!

Actually in Thailand the death rate is much higher, since they do not record deaths of drivers who die on their way to hospital or later of their injuries.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Estrada

[gandalf12]

I have been driving in Thailand for many years and it isn't bad. Try some of the Middle East countries and you will see what dab driving really is. I agree it is different to driving say in Europe or the USA but dangerous no, not if you drive with thought and sense

[Keesters]

I get the feeing from the op that just because motorcycles figure highly in accident statistics that every accident is the fault of a motorcyclist. That is untrue. IMO the bigger the vehicle the more stupid the driver. It's a size thing, "I'm bigger than you, you'd better get out of my way".

[Johnnie99]

It's not generally Thailand about which people complain so much, as Bangkok and other cities.

In the countryside, people drive far better in every country.

How ever in Bangkok, Thai drivers are generally terrible in thought, word and deed.

[Moonlover]

A 3-week visit to India cured me of ever complaning about traffic and drivers in Thailand.

6 years in Egypt did the same for me too. A very good post OP. Thank you.

[BradinAsia]

All your statistics are rubbish because Thailand doesn't count the cause of death from motor vehicle accident if the patient dies after reaching the hospital. In reality Thailand is a distant 1st place. #2 Namibia at 1/30th the size of Thailand shouldn't really count anyway being as small as it is.

The only reason the US is as high as it is is because they keep very accurate statistics when compared to most other countries.

Keep in mind too that most cars on the roads of Thailand are built to a much lower standard than those in the US and other first world country.

Speaking of rubbish, I think your entire post would fairly well fit that category.

The idea that in Thailand cars are built to a lower standard is a popular old wives tale on ThaiVisa

but it has little connection to reality. I used to work for Honda company and can assure you Hondas

built in Marysville, Ohio, Saitama, Japan, or Rayong, Thailand are all built to the same standards.

Also, your argument about statistics is very weak. Do you really care about Namibia?

[bowerboy]

Second worst in the World. Statistics have proven. No further comments needed - stupid thread.

Totally agreed...stupid thread.

Anyone who has driven here even for 1 week can clearly see how dangerous it is and the utter stupidity of many of the drivers here.

This post is non sense and I very much doubt those people who think the roads here are ok have truly spent any time driving on them.

WHO statistics prove it...end of story.

[bowerboy]

If the traffic is so much worse in middle east, vietnam, malaysia and india then why do the statistics not show that?

[Gecko123]

There are a number of factors which still make driving in Thailand in a car risky, and I would caution against ever becoming complacent while driving here.

1. Poor enforcement of driving while intoxicated/inebriated laws.

2. Poor defensive driving training and education. Driver's education not taught in schools. Very limited number of driving schools.

3. Many drivers who should be wearing corrective lenses when driving don't.

4. Inadequate monitoring and testing of elderly/medically impaired drivers. (epilepsy, dementia, etc.)

5. Drivers who habitually drive hazardously (speeding, tailgating, multiple accidents) less likely to have their licenses suspended/revoked.

5. Underaged or unlicensed individuals operating motor vehicles.

6. Slow moving farm vehicles esp. sugar cane trucks.

7. Farm animals grazing on the side of the road.

8. High percentage of undivided two lane roads.

9. If right hand U-turn lane gets backed up into the right hand high speed lane you can easily rear-end someone.

10. Adequate liability insurance coverage is oftentimes not available. (maximum available limits are quite low)

11. Poor enforcement of vehicle road worthiness laws (missing headlights, tail lights, worn out tire tread, etc.)

Edited January 7, 2015 by Gecko123

[HeijoshinCool]

A 3-week visit to India cured me of ever complaning about traffic and drivers in Thailand.

.

Yep, no comparison.

In India, six people cram in a car for a driving test with an inspector. Only one person drives. If he passes, everyone in the car gets a license.

What happens if he doesn't pass?

Everyone sends their application to another state, with the "fee," and everyone gets a license.

The good news is, as opposed to Thailand, everyone in India is licensed.

[gandalf12]

If the traffic is so much worse in middle east, vietnam, malaysia and india then why do the statistics not show that?

It was reported in the Gulf Times that the Middle East had the top two death rates in vehicles

[nuananddon]

Op, commute in Chiang Mai then come back and tell me how not so bad the driving is. Driving is only pleasant here when there are no other road users on your stretch. Eyes need to be absolutely peeled every second because the propensity for someone to do something completely nuts is ever-present. Done at least 150,000 miles in Thailand in all areas.

[nuananddon]

daveAustion, you are right on that one. I've driven to Chiang Mai from Lampang many times and from the first stoplight going north in lumpun I've named that road "Idiots alley". Expect anything on that stretch of road.

[anono222]

Don't know where you guys drive, but here, the first thing I do before starting my twice-daily 30 minute commute to work is state the quote from an all time classic film "Bring me the road warrior!" I do this to establish the mind set that I am now in a survival situation and I, and only I, will determine if I live or die today. Every day I witness drivers do things that defy any rationale or reason; sometimes causing me to react to an emergency situation, other times I am simply a spectator of the bizarre events that unfold before my eyes. I read that some people living here in Thailand find riding a motorcyle a relaxing pleasant experience. For me, it is simply a means of getting from one place to the other without experiencing undesirable consequences. Never would I describe it as recreational or relaxing. As for the statistics and making comparisons to the US, please! The rationale presented is so flawed on so many levels it loses all merit. Anyway, not trying to change anyones mind. Rather, just stating the obvious. Be careful, stay healthy and alive. Cheers to all my fellow riders!

[Eaglekott]

Seat belts, Seat belts, Seat belts.

Child car seats, Child car seats, Child car seats.

Kids on laps in a car with or without air bags????????

Lets start with the basics that western Countries introduced 40 years ago.

Then start paying the cols a decent salary and get them to enforce traffic laws.

You forgot Helmets-helmets-helmets... and

Strap the helmet on. helmet that is not strapped = no helmet at all.

[Eaglekott]

People need to change tires. They drive around with totally blank tires, and then when rain hits they run of the road och flip whit this bike. I think 25% of bikes has no pattern at all on the tires.

[earthpig]

I congratulate the OP for an intelligent article on an important subject. His central thesis that the high rates of slaughter on Thai roads is connected with high motorcycle usage is worth noting, but several other observations and implications are in my view flawed.

The central statistical flaw is not introducing the concept of miles driven into cross border comparisons. This is very important. US average miles per year are some 50% greater than in many European countries, for example, and account for most of the difference in rates of accidents and even life expectancy. Any conclusions about relative safety of Thai versus US automobile driving need to take this into account.

Empirical observations comparing two places also has to be made with a certain humbleness when it comes to drawing conclusions. The author doenst live in Bangkok and finds drivers better wherever he does live in Thailand compared to where ever he does live in the USA. I do live in Bangkok, have lived in in five countries including the USA, and find drivers here the worst of them all by an order of measure. The OP is not wrong; nor am I. These are our differing opinions, based on differing life experiences. But neither observation, by itself, is terribly useful in drawing comparisons.

That's why the OP's main emphasis on hard stats is refreshing.

There is however the OP makes which is simply preposterous:

" I also find the joy of riding a motorcycle to be well worth the risk, since Im gonna die anyway. At the end of the day, I understand that I am responsible for keeping myself alive. Its not up to the other guy."

True in some circumstances, but in other circumstances this attitude may one day cost him his life. If he truly values his life less than the thrill of all those horses running thru his hands, then that is surely his business. But short of finding employment as a terrorist, it is about as stunning a denunciation of the value of human life that you could find anywhere.

I hope the OP comes to his senses. Good luck to him.

[kannot]

Seat belts, Seat belts, Seat belts.

Child car seats, Child car seats, Child car seats.

Kids on laps in a car with or without air bags????????

Lets start with the basics that western Countries introduced 40 years ago.

Then start paying the cols a decent salary and get them to enforce traffic laws.

Im 51 now but in early 1965 My dad bought a brand new car, there was a fault with the steering from manufacture, the car went out of control, we all went through the windscreen, I almost lost an eye aged 2, parents in hospital for a lonnnnnnnnnnnng time. I still have the scar now about 3/4inch from my eye

Where was I?? on my Mothers lap, no seat belts then , later in 1965 all manufacturers had to fit seat belts .

Everytime I see the kids now on parents lap it reminds me of that accident and my almost early demise.

Edited January 7, 2015 by kannot