What Is Appropriate Amount For Sinsod?

[SakuRules]

I have a 32 year old Thai girlfriend who is a nurse in Bangkok, never married and no children, who has told me her father would want 200,000 Baht for sinsod if we get married. I understand this to custom to be a reflection of the theory that once we get married, she will be considered to be part of my family instead of hers. But she also says that she will want us to give him money every month after we get married. A good friend of mine married a good friend of hers(the wedding took place in the village where she grew up--eastern Thailand) and paid 60,000 Baht. Her friend is also a nurse, but is a couple of years younger, has more education, and speaks better English. My girlfriend told me that if she were to marry a Thai, her father would still ask for 200,000 Baht. I can't understand how the average Thai man could afford this much for sinsod. They have explained to me that because my girl's father lives in Bangkok instead of village, the sinsod is more. I do not make a lot of money, do not own a house, and will have my hands full supporting a wife and children. I hope that I am not being cheap, but the thought of paying 200,000 Baht, then supporting her father with money every month, seems too much. Please give me some thoughts on this. Thanks

[BambinA]

about sinsod .. it depends on family then

some families dont ask for it.

some families ask abit as traditional.

some families ask much for keeping their face and beating neighbour it's implied that they have more dowry ..

80% of the in laws (bride's parents ) give those dowry for thier girl + son in law.

But she also says that she will want us to give him money every month after we get married.

It's pretty common in asian's culture especially in TH... kids always support thier family as grateful .

Edited August 15, 2006 by BambinA

[britmaveric]

All depends on you....

In practice the dosh is for show and should be returned to you. If this is not the case then you know where you stand.

If you are sucked into the sinsot deal - remember this is a negotiation and what is initially said doesnt mean its a set price. Typically you go and speak with parents and this is when the negotiation takes place.

As for how thai(s) afford sinsot - well they borrow the dosh.

I know many who haven't paid any sinsot. However it is expected to help the family out within reason.

[backflip]

Your question has been asked and answered hundreds of times. Regardless, with your GF's input you know that you'll pay money now and every month. Apparently, even in the best of Thai-farang relationships, the basis is money, not love and respect.

[Donz]

I giving 150,000 in a few months, I look at it as my small share for the price of the wedding that will make it look like church change

[udon]

SakuRules

Why haven't you used the search button?

[helitool]

When I was courting my wife in CM about 30 years ago not only was sinsod never mentioned but on various ocassions I was so broke I had to borrow a couple hundred baht from her to get by until a bank transfer came through! I guess easy money wasn't the only thing she was interested in.

I spoken both nothern and central Thai fluently for 30 years and never heard the term sinsod until I saw it in a post on this forum.

Try this: tell them you have hit some hard times and you can't afford the sinsod right now AND you might need to borrow a few baht from them in the short term.

After she dumps you, you can go find yourself a woman who loves you for yourself not your money, they do exist even in LOS.

My apologies for being so negative, I just don't know any other way to put it.

[Donz]

Helitool,

thats not negative, if you cant pay it then you cant pay it. Im sure there are people who dont have to pay it they have financial difficulties, im sure they would understand and if they dont and dump you then its probaly for the better

[The Skipper]

200,000bht.

Thats high.

I think the dad is trying to weed out the slackers.

Can't blame him for wanting someone with the means to look after his kid.

100,000 is fair and maybe a small allowance every month if they are poor.

[HarryHacker]

SakuRules

Why haven't you used the search button?

......I don't see what the big deal is in asking the same questions time and time again. You get new views and sometimes new perspectives on the topic.

It seems rather cheap to me to see some of the old hands having a dig at a newbie.

[h90]

I have a 32 year old Thai girlfriend who is a nurse in Bangkok, never married and no children, who has told me her father would want 200,000 Baht for sinsod if we get married. I understand this to custom to be a reflection of the theory that once we get married, she will be considered to be part of my family instead of hers. But she also says that she will want us to give him money every month after we get married. A good friend of mine married a good friend of hers(the wedding took place in the village where she grew up--eastern Thailand) and paid 60,000 Baht. Her friend is also a nurse, but is a couple of years younger, has more education, and speaks better English. My girlfriend told me that if she were to marry a Thai, her father would still ask for 200,000 Baht. I can't understand how the average Thai man could afford this much for sinsod. They have explained to me that because my girl's father lives in Bangkok instead of village, the sinsod is more. I do not make a lot of money, do not own a house, and will have my hands full supporting a wife and children. I hope that I am not being cheap, but the thought of paying 200,000 Baht, then supporting her father with money every month, seems too much. Please give me some thoughts on this. Thanks

tell her bye bye and find a better one

[tourleadersi]

It all depends on the family, your future wife and your own financial situation.

I went to my gf house one day and suddenly found myself involved in sinsot negotiations! As I had no iea on the subject I agreed to an amount that was way over the odds (about 500k). When I got home from said meeting I did some research (including a search on TV) and realised I was way out. I sat down and did my sums and realised that the amount that I had agreed was going to hurt us for quite sometime.

I printed out all my financial details and sat down with my gf and went through them with her, explaining that once we were married it became 'our money' and if we paid such a sinsot we would be crippled for quite a while. She went back to her parents and negotiated it down to 100k which I was more than happy with.

I didn't see her parents as trying to take me for a ride. They are presently having financial difficulties and had no idea of my worth. Once my gf understood she helped to make them understand. Since we were married there has not been a single phonecall asking for money, not a thing in a year and they are both very happy with me.

I did offer to pay for the evening party here in Bangers (we had the buddhist ceremony in her home town just outside of Bangkok) as my gf had always talked about a particular hotel where all of her Uni parties had been held. She said that it had always been her dream to have her wedding there and I knew it would be beyond her parents budget. I paid another 100k for that but it was well worth it just to see the smile on her face.

Only you can truly answer how much you can afford (both financially and emotionally) to pay. Figure out what your boundaries are and don't exceed them. Good luck!

Edited August 16, 2006 by tourleadersi

[rcm]

200,000bht.

Thats high.

I think the dad is trying to weed out the slackers.

Can't blame him for wanting someone with the means to look after his kid.

100,000 is fair and maybe a small allowance every month if they are poor.

200000 thb is not high if she is from a wealthy Fam ...it depends all on the Family . if she is from a wealthy family they will laugh at you if you offer 200000 thb . you will merely go toward the 500000 or more ...and very often you will get it back the same day...it's just for show. And one more thing if she is from a wealthy Family you won't be asked for some "monthly allowance" .

Your friends Wife perhaps comes from a poor Fam , northeast Thailand is very poor in general .

So Dowry is low but have "monthly allowance " too.

Also what kind of education did your Girlfriend get? Check out the Family and than make up the Dowry ...

good luck & hope that helps,

rcm

[Soju]

As others have said, every case is different. 200K doesn't seem all that high to me. I've heard of Thai guys paying that much and more, most of them having to go deep into debt to pay what for them is the equivalent to several years worth of salary. Even at inflated prices for Farangs, most Farangs have it much easier than the average Thai man as I've yet to hear of a Farang who had to borrow anywheres near as extensively (with respect to his income) as do many Thais.

[alexth]

I think that this is a total BS. Tradition this, tradition that, if my gf's parents would ever asked for any money to merry her, she would have to choose between me or them and I wouldn't care less if she would choose them. Shoot me, but this is just another thai scam

[Donz]

I think that this is a total BS. Tradition this, tradition that, if my gf's parents would ever asked for any money to merry her, she would have to choose between me or them and I wouldn't care less if she would choose them. Shoot me, but this is just another thai scam

Yeap everything should be done the western way right? otherwise its a scam or not right?

[alexth]

I think that this is a total BS. Tradition this, tradition that, if my gf's parents would ever asked for any money to merry her, she would have to choose between me or them and I wouldn't care less if she would choose them. Shoot me, but this is just another thai scam

Yeap everything should be done the western way right? otherwise its a scam or not right?

Donz, I like your style and agree with your posts many times, but sometimes you can get very annoying. Could you really believe that maybe a poor family that earns less than 200baht/day would ever dream to get 200k just like that??? I've seen the tradition and all of my friends who got married just gave 100k or maybe 200 or even 300k, but the money were returned to the last satang as soon as the wedding ceremony finished and the girl's parents were pretty traditional folks, you can jump off your feet as long as you want, but when I see some poor thais that can barely afford the wedding clothes asking 200k because tradition, well, I'd rather think that the tradition is long time forgotten and that the BS came in

Edited August 16, 2006 by alexth

[Soju]

I think that this is a total BS. Tradition this, tradition that, if my gf's parents would ever asked for any money to merry her, she would have to choose between me or them and I wouldn't care less if she would choose them. Shoot me, but this is just another thai scam

In the western world many people spend a small fortune on the wedding itself. Parents often give lavish gifts to the newlyweds. Why do they do it? Mostly for show. To show to others how much they care for each other and to show they have faith in the couple's marriage. I'm sure there's lots of other reasons as well. In Thailand the number one reason for the sinsot is for show. To show to everyone that the groom has the financial means to care for his new bride and to show his love and concern for his bride and her family. What's the difference? In both cases someone is spending a lot of money just for show. It's all just a matter of perspective. IMHO, if you're against any sinsot being paid then you should be against spending any money on any wedding ceremony and against anyone giving any gifts or money at a wedding. The giving of gifts and money, not just for weddings, but for all sorts of occasions, is a tradition that exists in all nations and all cultures that I know of. Why kncok Thailand's particular way of doing it? There's no right or wrong tradition with respect to giving at weddings. If you don't like one particular culture's tradition, then refuse to recognize it and be prepared for any consequences from the gf and her family.

[alexth]

I think that this is a total BS. Tradition this, tradition that, if my gf's parents would ever asked for any money to merry her, she would have to choose between me or them and I wouldn't care less if she would choose them. Shoot me, but this is just another thai scam

In the western world many people spend a small fortune on the wedding itself. Parents often give lavish gifts to the newlyweds. Why do they do it? Mostly for show. To show to others how much they care for each other and to show they have faith in the couple's marriage. I'm sure there's lots of other reasons as well. In Thailand the number one reason for the sinsot is for show. To show to everyone that the groom has the financial means to care for his new bride and to show his love and concern for his bride and her family. What's the difference? In both cases someone is spending a lot of money just for show. It's all just a matter of perspective. IMHO, if you're against any sinsot being paid then you should be against spending any money on any wedding ceremony and against anyone giving any gifts or money at a wedding. The giving of gifts and money, not just for weddings, but for all sorts of occasions, is a tradition that exists in all nations and all cultures that I know of. Why kncok Thailand's particular way of doing it? There's no right or wrong tradition with respect to giving at weddings. If you don't like one particular culture's tradition, then refuse to recognize it and be prepared for any consequences from the gf and her family.

Soju, just like I stated previously, if the money were returned to you, then there would be no problem, but of they keep the 200k for themselves, well, then it's not ok.

[Donz]

I think that this is a total BS. Tradition this, tradition that, if my gf's parents would ever asked for any money to merry her, she would have to choose between me or them and I wouldn't care less if she would choose them. Shoot me, but this is just another thai scam

In the western world many people spend a small fortune on the wedding itself. Parents often give lavish gifts to the newlyweds. Why do they do it? Mostly for show. To show to others how much they care for each other and to show they have faith in the couple's marriage. I'm sure there's lots of other reasons as well. In Thailand the number one reason for the sinsot is for show. To show to everyone that the groom has the financial means to care for his new bride and to show his love and concern for his bride and her family. What's the difference? In both cases someone is spending a lot of money just for show. It's all just a matter of perspective. IMHO, if you're against any sinsot being paid then you should be against spending any money on any wedding ceremony and against anyone giving any gifts or money at a wedding. The giving of gifts and money, not just for weddings, but for all sorts of occasions, is a tradition that exists in all nations and all cultures that I know of. Why kncok Thailand's particular way of doing it? There's no right or wrong tradition with respect to giving at weddings. If you don't like one particular culture's tradition, then refuse to recognize it and be prepared for any consequences from the gf and her family.

Soju, just like I stated previously, if the money were returned to you, then there would be no problem, but of they keep the 200k for themselves, well, then it's not ok.

Why isnt it, im not going to ask for mine back and i dont expect to get mine returned, even if they offered i wouldnt accept it.

I guess we just think differently and we should just put it down to that.

[alexth]

I think that this is a total BS. Tradition this, tradition that, if my gf's parents would ever asked for any money to merry her, she would have to choose between me or them and I wouldn't care less if she would choose them. Shoot me, but this is just another thai scam

In the western world many people spend a small fortune on the wedding itself. Parents often give lavish gifts to the newlyweds. Why do they do it? Mostly for show. To show to others how much they care for each other and to show they have faith in the couple's marriage. I'm sure there's lots of other reasons as well. In Thailand the number one reason for the sinsot is for show. To show to everyone that the groom has the financial means to care for his new bride and to show his love and concern for his bride and her family. What's the difference? In both cases someone is spending a lot of money just for show. It's all just a matter of perspective. IMHO, if you're against any sinsot being paid then you should be against spending any money on any wedding ceremony and against anyone giving any gifts or money at a wedding. The giving of gifts and money, not just for weddings, but for all sorts of occasions, is a tradition that exists in all nations and all cultures that I know of. Why kncok Thailand's particular way of doing it? There's no right or wrong tradition with respect to giving at weddings. If you don't like one particular culture's tradition, then refuse to recognize it and be prepared for any consequences from the gf and her family.

Soju, just like I stated previously, if the money were returned to you, then there would be no problem, but of they keep the 200k for themselves, well, then it's not ok.

Why isnt it, im not going to ask for mine back and i dont expect to get mine returned, even if they offered i wouldnt accept it.

I guess we just think differently and we should just put it down to that.

That would be better

[Heng]

I think that this is a total BS. Tradition this, tradition that, if my gf's parents would ever asked for any money to merry her, she would have to choose between me or them and I wouldn't care less if she would choose them. Shoot me, but this is just another thai scam

In the western world many people spend a small fortune on the wedding itself. Parents often give lavish gifts to the newlyweds. Why do they do it? Mostly for show. To show to others how much they care for each other and to show they have faith in the couple's marriage. I'm sure there's lots of other reasons as well. In Thailand the number one reason for the sinsot is for show. To show to everyone that the groom has the financial means to care for his new bride and to show his love and concern for his bride and her family. What's the difference?

Excellent comment. There really isn't a difference. That said, in the end, it's up to each particular couple/family whether you want to follow (whichever) tradition or not. I've been to more than a few Thai weddings where they skip the entire "karn mark" march and sinsot show, some where all the morning ceremony goodies are just traditional desserts and fruit with no money or property deeds involved (but the hotel reception tends to be more lavish: one that comes to mind is one at the Royal Cliff Beach Hotel a few years ago: total bill 900,000+ Baht)... not to mention several Thai Christian church + hotel reception weddings with no traditional morning ceremony.

[Scott]

A co-worker of mine got married about 1 1/2 years ago. His father wanted money. My co-worker went and told the father he wanted to marry his daughter, they were returning to his country so he could pursue an advanced degree and earn a good living. He told the father he didn't have any money to give him because if he did, he couldn't afford tuition.

The family said "OK". I guess they figured they'd be better off with an investment in his future income!

[Soju]

Soju, just like I stated previously, if the money were returned to you, then there would be no problem, but of they keep the 200k for themselves, well, then it's not ok.

In a western wedding, one or sometimes both of the couple's parents are expected to pay a significant amount of cash for the wedding ceremony, often needing to go into debt in order to pay for it. Do they get expect to get money back after the wedding is over? No. Often times a car, house, or luxury honeymoon vacation are given by one of the parents to the couple. Do they expect that gift to be returned? No.

Granted it's not customary to negotiate how valuable of gifts will be given at a western wedding ceremony, but very often the size and cost of the actual ceremony is. If one member of the couple or their parents are expecting a big wedding, but the other party refuses and doesn't want any formal wedding ceremony, it could possibly be a deal breaker. Even in the western world many people's expectation is that someone will spend until it hurts on a wedding because that is perhaps the most important day of their lives of the bride and groom. And if one refuses to spend much money, to some it is an indication that they aren't really serious about the marriage.

Some people see lavish spending on a wedding as an expression of their love, and some see it as nothing more than a waste of money. There's no right or wrong but it's up to each individual couple and their family to decide what they want to do for their wedding and how much money they want to spend. IMHO, you should't criticize anyone for wanting or spending a lot for a wedding, either on gifts, sinsod, or the ceremony. Likewise you shouldn't criticize anyone for refusing to spend a lot. For sure there are many Thai weddings where no sinsot is paid. If not paying a sinsot is so important to you, then certainly you can find a girl whose parents will not demand it. But there are many Thai weddings were a sinsot is paid and there are many Thai girls who you'll never be able to marry by refusing to pay a sinsot. That's just their culture and you have to accept it and deal with it.

Of course one always has to be wary if a large sinsot is asked that it might just be a scam. Or if you're getting really bad vibes that the request for sinsot is just a money grab and that the family doesn't really care about tradition, then under those conditions I wouldn't advise anyone to pay it.

[ray23]

The answer would seem in your situation is what ever the traffic will bare. That is the number they have decided that you can pay.

In reading your post it really sounds more like a shopping trip, so keep shopping.

The part throwing me is you will contribute to the family forever. Most of us do in some way, but I don't remember it being so blantly approached before. If you can't afford this then it is simple don't do it. They have told you right up front your the bank I would suggest believing them and moving on. Remember the easiest thing to find in Thailand is a woman, the hardest a good one for you.

If you have to do this then do what the Thai's really do and send a third party to negoiate for you. Me I see the handwriting on the wall, but it's your life. Good luck

[udon]

SakuRules

Why haven't you used the search button?

......I don't see what the big deal is in asking the same questions time and time again. You get new views and sometimes new perspectives on the topic.

It seems rather cheap to me to see some of the old hands having a dig at a newbie.

I don't believe that he is a newbie, that's why.

[SakuRules]

thanks for all the imput----just to clarify, nothing has been said about "giving the money back to me/us after the wedding". As to the wealth of the family, she was raised by her uncle who is middle class while the father is not so well off due to an injury. I had to ask her if the sinsod would go to the uncle or the father, she replied father. The mother and father have been divorced for quite some time, and she is effectively out of the picture. Her postion at the hospital is about equall to that of a LVN in USA.

[kerryk]

In Thailand women are valued and payment is asked for a bride whatever the condition of the female.

In India a dowry is paid to the male.

In India female children are killed before birth because they are a burden to a poor family.

I would suggest that paying some sin sot is continuing to support the value of women in Thailand and is a good idea.

In the West sin sot is paid at the end of the marriage but the principle still applies.

Edited August 16, 2006 by kerryk

[Donz]

In Thailand women are valued and payment is asked for a bride whatever the condition of the female.

In India a dowry is paid to the male.

In India female children are killed before birth because they are a burden to a poor family.

I would suggest that paying some sin sot is continuing to support the value of women in Thailand and is a good idea.

In the West sin sot is paid at the end of the marriage but the principle still applies.

In another post didnt you say its selling your daughter etc etc, or have i got you mixed up with someone else

[kerryk]

In Thailand women are valued and payment is asked for a bride whatever the condition of the female.

In India a dowry is paid to the male.

In India female children are killed before birth because they are a burden to a poor family.

I would suggest that paying some sin sot is continuing to support the value of women in Thailand and is a good idea.

In the West sin sot is paid at the end of the marriage but the principle still applies.

In another post didnt you say its selling your daughter etc etc, or have i got you mixed up with someone else

Oh, heck no Donz, not me. I got an quite a good offer for one of my daughters that would have put me on easy street for the rest of my life. It was a hi so VIP in Thailand. But I couldn’t convince my daughter to even talk to the guy.