French security forces kill gunmen, end hostage sieges

[Ulysses G.]

I do understand atrocities committed in our names is well hidden by the media/ignored/not reported in the west but still....

We do get enough highlights via the web & various reporting agencies to know we are not faultless....We do get enough to expect some blowback

You are giving these people way too much credit. Their own governments commit far worse atrocities than the West and regularly. Most of them are not educated enough about the rest of the world and are constantly fed false propaganda which they are more than willing to believe. That is why nutty conspiracy theories are rife in this part of the world and are an Integral part of their belief systems.

[mania]

The Muslims have been imposing their beliefs and committing acts of terror long before the West really took notice.

It took 9/11 to really wake us up. Before that, who was hunting them down?

Stop being an apologist for a religion which thinks it must kill all infidels and rule the world. They are bloodthirsty bastards and we didn't make them that way.

Yes I never said religion does not have its extremist they all do....All of them

As for waking up...Yes many just woke after 9/11 but...if you would like to claim there was no

actions which got reactions prior to 9/11 you should look again.

Kind of hard to miss though. One could even just look at OBL's manifesto & read what his claimed reasons were.

I know it is easy/simplistic to choose the line you use as your final line...bloodthirsty etc etc

but it is simpler than that

Actions have Reactions....Wrongful Actions like it or not have Wrongful Reactions many times

I did not invent the an eye for an eye axiom nor do I practice it but many seem to.

This thread... this event is proof of that. Along with decades that have come before it.

Edited January 11, 2015 by mania

[NeverSure]

The Muslims have been imposing their beliefs and committing acts of terror long before the West really took notice.

It took 9/11 to really wake us up. Before that, who was hunting them down?

Stop being an apologist for a religion which thinks it must kill all infidels and rule the world. They are bloodthirsty bastards and we didn't make them that way.

Yes I never said religion does not have its extremist they all do....All of them

As for waking up...Yes many just woke after 9/11 but...if you would like to claim there was no

actions which got reactions prior to 9/11 you should look again.

Kind of hard to miss though. One could even just look at OBL's manifesto & read what his claimed reasons were.

I know it is easy/simplistic to choose the line you use as your final line...bloodthirsty etc etc

but it is simpler than that

Actions have Reactions....Wrongful Actions like it or not have Wrongful Reactions many times

I did not invent the an eye for an eye axiom nor do I practice it but many seem to.

This thread... this event is proof of that. Along with decades that have come before it.

So, the West gave birth to Mohammed, wrote the Koran, and started the bloodthirsty "religion" some many hundreds of years ago. Got it.

And please stop the crap about other religions. Yes there's a nutter here and there but the religions themselves and their followers condemn it and even will imprison them for it.

This is ALL about Islam.

[Ulysses G.]

Hear, hear!

Edited January 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[mania]

So, the West gave birth to Mohammed, wrote the Koran, and started the bloodthirsty "religion" some many hundreds of years ago. Got it.

And please stop the crap about other religions. Yes there's a nutter here and there but the religions themselves and their followers condemn it and even will imprison them for it.

This is ALL about Islam.

555 I am not the one claiming it is all about any ONE thing

you are.

Which is why you said in your other post

"It took 9/11 to really wake us up. Before that, who was hunting them down?"

Which is simplistic

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=motives+for+9%2F11+attack

Again I do not condone any of it....But "it" is not simplistic/one sided

Folks like yourself are actually the prime victims as you have no situational awareness

You have blinders on so are actually handicapped

Anyway......carry on. I only gave an opinion I do not require you/expect you to accept it

You want it simple/neat...it is all Islam....carry on with that all you want

[Ulysses G.]

Anyway......carry on. I only gave an opinion I do not require you/expect you to accept it

He thinks that you and people like you make false moral equivalence arguments in order to distract from the main issue, which is that radical Islam is the biggest threat to Western civilization that exists today. IMO, he has a very valid point.

[mania]

Anyway......carry on. I only gave an opinion I do not require you/expect you to accept it

He thinks that you and people like you make false moral equivalence arguments in order to distract from the main issue, which is that radical Islam is the biggest threat to Western civilization that exists today. IMO, he has a very valid point.

"you & people like you"? hahah is there a word for that?

antitruemoral? Not surprised at such terminology from folks that always like to

label anyone that dies not agree with them or noticing of more than one reason/cause/action causing a reaction as being "anti" something

See that a lot on this section of teh forum whether it be Anti-USA or Antisemitism...etc etc etc

Sorry to disappoint & I can only speak for myself but...My opinions are not based in morals but actions.

That I notice actions that happen in the world & think to myself....

"That will surely cause a reaction" does not automatically mean I am trying to distract from anything

as I saw the action & fully expect the reaction.

That I have an opinion that is not the same as yours also does not mean I am distracting. You are free

to have any opinion you like & express it......I thought that was part of the outrage of this event?

That those killed were not allowed such? Yet the amoral? such as yourself? then claim/label as you do here?

As for Islam being the biggest threat to Western civilization that exists today???

Perhaps in the terrorism department otherwise the West have many greater problems also threatening Western civilization.

[Ulysses G.]

This may come as shock, but there is plenty of anti-USA sentiment and antisemitism expressed on here. These labels can be very accurate for calling a spade a spade.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[mania]

This may come as shock, but there is plenty of anti-USA sentiment and antisemitism expressed on here. These labels can be very accurate for calling a spade a spade.

No shock I see it often & usually from the same folks that have nothing left but labels to use.

Carry on

[Ulysses G.]

Facts and labels go together sometimes. They can be an easy way to tell the unpleasant truth about something.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[mania]

Facts and labels go together sometimes. They can be an easy way to tell the unpleasant truth about something.

That seems fine as long as your the only one with valid/moral/honest defining facts eh?

Sorry but that is not how it works

My post that your jumping all over was simple...

It basically said sometimes blowback can be a contributing factor

It is backed by facts & numbers of those dead. Their survivors may or may not be mad enough to seek revenge.

But it is a possibility...not that hard to understand...not based in any falsehoods

Edited January 11, 2015 by mania

[Ulysses G.]

All it is, is an opinion, not backed by anything, but your own beliefs and that is what I pointed out.

[H1w4yR1da]

Abdul Hamza just received life imprisonment in Colorado supermax prison, what a waste of a good bullet.

Yes, Abu Hamza. The man the UK gave refuge to, allowed to preach his crap at Finsbury Park mosque, lived in a 220,000 pound house, gave over 2.75 million pounds to as welfare payments and spent over 1 million pounds trying to deport.

Unbelievable!!! I fear for the UK.

[mania]

All it is, is an opinion, not backed by anything, but your own beliefs and that is what I pointed out.

555 yes ok if you say so You may hold onto that

That they the thousand of collateral damages cited by many reputable agencies

are dead (fact/opinion?) & their families might hold a grudge (I did say might...so ok maybe my opinion/guess)

Would be drifting OT to list the stats for you but Google is your friend if you care.

Edited January 11, 2015 by mania

[Manbing]

Abdul Hamza just received life imprisonment in Colorado supermax prison, what a waste of a good bullet.

Yes, Abu Hamza. The man the UK gave refuge to, allowed to preach his crap at Finsbury Park mosque, lived in a 220,000 pound house, gave over 2.75 million pounds to as welfare payments and spent over 1 million pounds trying to deport.

Unbelievable!!! I fear for the UK.

This is right, something is really wrong with system here. How can this happen? Its not rocket science, put immigrants on a good behavior bond. The country does it with a parolee who has been imprisoned for possessing class c drugs after parole. Why not with immigrants to ensure they are law abiding?

[alanrchase]

Abdul Hamza just received life imprisonment in Colorado supermax prison, what a waste of a good bullet.

Yes, Abu Hamza. The man the UK gave refuge to, allowed to preach his crap at Finsbury Park mosque, lived in a 220,000 pound house, gave over 2.75 million pounds to as welfare payments and spent over 1 million pounds trying to deport.

Unbelievable!!! I fear for the UK.

He was one of the most obnoxious persons you could imagine. Unfortunately free speech allowed him to get away with his rantings and human rights delayed his deportation. In the west we applaud the right for free speech and human rights. Unfortunately the west's ideals can bite them in the ass.

[H1w4yR1da]

All it is, is an opinion, not backed by anything, but your own beliefs and that is what I pointed out.

555 yes ok if you say so You may hold onto that

That they the thousand of collateral damages cited by many reputable agencies

are dead (fact/opinion?) & their families might hold a grudge (I did say might...so ok maybe my opinion/guess)

Would be drifting OT to list the stats for you but Google is your friend if you care.

If people are going to associate with terrorists, live with them, marry and have children with them, it's fairly obvious that they're going to end up as drone bait one day. You make your choices.

Some nam na!

Edited January 11, 2015 by H1w4yR1da

[Manbing]

Abdul Hamza just received life imprisonment in Colorado supermax prison, what a waste of a good bullet.

Yes, Abu Hamza. The man the UK gave refuge to, allowed to preach his crap at Finsbury Park mosque, lived in a 220,000 pound house, gave over 2.75 million pounds to as welfare payments and spent over 1 million pounds trying to deport.

Unbelievable!!! I fear for the UK.

He was one of the most obnoxious persons you could imagine. Unfortunately free speech allowed him to get away with his rantings and human rights delayed his deportation. In the west we applaud the right for free speech and human rights. Unfortunately the west's ideals can bite them in the ass.

Let's be clear about this, its not Muslims, its extremists.

What would have happened after ww2 if an immigrant to the UK identified themselves as a Nazi?

They wouldn't get the central London council house a a free ticket to preach hate.

[Jingthing]

It's not extremists. It's Islamic Jihadists.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[alanrchase]

All it is, is an opinion, not backed by anything, but your own beliefs and that is what I pointed out.

555 yes ok if you say so You may hold onto that

That they the thousand of collateral damages cited by many reputable agencies

are dead (fact/opinion?) & their families might hold a grudge (I did say might...so ok maybe my opinion/guess)

Would be drifting OT to list the stats for you but Google is your friend if you care.

If people are going to associate with terrorists, live with them, marry and have children with them, it's fairly obvious that they're going to end up as drone bait one day. You make your choices.

Some nam na!

Drone bait. That may catch on. Possibly trend on Twitter.

[ableguy]

Its time to stop this blight of evil idiots. Given their absolute disregard for all life, where innocent people are hostages and their deaths are a statement of support for their god, its time to eradicate them like a cancer.

The basic tenant of tolerant western culture is live and let life.

If anything disagrees with this its got to be removed.

Kill these terrorists like a cancer.

Abdul Hamza just received life imprisonment in Colorado supermax prison, what a waste of a good bullet.

For the life in me I cannot understand all the bs about how we should not water board these animals, torture one hundred Islamist radicals save one life , job well done.

Nobody will ever change my mind on that score.

[alanrchase]

Its time to stop this blight of evil idiots. Given their absolute disregard for all life, where innocent people are hostages and their deaths are a statement of support for their god, its time to eradicate them like a cancer.

The basic tenant of tolerant western culture is live and let life.

If anything disagrees with this its got to be removed.

Kill these terrorists like a cancer.

Abdul Hamza just received life imprisonment in Colorado supermax prison, what a waste of a good bullet.

For the life in me I cannot understand all the bs about how we should not water board these animals, torture one hundred Islamist radicals save one life , job well done.

Nobody will ever change my mind on that score.

Wonderful.

[Manbing]

Its time to stop this blight of evil idiots. Given their absolute disregard for all life, where innocent people are hostages and their deaths are a statement of support for their god, its time to eradicate them like a cancer.

The basic tenant of tolerant western culture is live and let life.

If anything disagrees with this its got to be removed.

Kill these terrorists like a cancer.

Abdul Hamza just received life imprisonment in Colorado supermax prison, what a waste of a good bullet.

For the life in me I cannot understand all the bs about how we should not water board these animals, torture one hundred Islamist radicals save one life , job well done.

Nobody will ever change my mind on that score.

If a doctor considers a disease that might wipe out people, they look for a way to eradicate the disease. They don't consider the feelings of the particular microbes involved.

In the same vein, these extremists want to kill, enslave or by other means eradicate all non like minded Muslims and everyone else. They want a return to the 7th century fundamental preaching of the Koran, depentant on the interpreter.

Like a disease, its time to remove the cancer, Some non malignant tissue will be collateral damage. Its the price of a cure.

[Jingthing]

The Muslim hero at the Kosher store.

There seems little doubt that he saved many lives.

Respect.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.636361

Muslim employee saved lives in attack on Paris kosher supermarket When Islamist gunman stormed into supermarket, Lassana Bathily let customers into store's basement freezer, told them to stay in while he sneaked out to aid police

At a kosher supermarket in Paris, a quick-thinking Muslim employee hides several Jewish shoppers in the basement before sneaking out to brief police on the hostage-taker upstairs. In the town of Dammartin-en-Goele, a poker-faced businessman fools a pair of gunmen into believing they're alone in the building before being allowed to leave unharmed.

In the days after the bloody end of twin French hostage crises Friday, stories of life-saving courage are beginning to filter out. One of the most striking is the story of Lassana Bathily, a young immigrant from Mali who literally provided police with the key to ending the hostage crisis at the supermarket.

.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[NeverSure]

If people are going to associate with terrorists, live with them, marry and have children with them, it's fairly obvious that they're going to end up as drone bait one day. You make your choices.

Some nam na!

Drone bait. That may catch on. Possibly trend on Twitter.

Drone bait. I like it. We need more drones.

The UK flies US Reaper Drones, controlled by remote control from London. They blow the crap out of Islamists in Afghanistan.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone here didn't know that. After all, they are always blaming "someone else" for stirring the pot.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-22320275

[mania]

If people are going to associate with terrorists, live with them, marry and have children with them, it's fairly obvious that they're going to end up as drone bait one day. You make your choices.

Some nam na!

Drone bait. That may catch on. Possibly trend on Twitter.

Drone bait. I like it. We need more drones.

The UK flies US Reaper Drones, controlled by remote control from London. They blow the crap out of Islamists in Afghanistan.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone here didn't know that. After all, they are always blaming "someone else" for stirring the pot.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-22320275

555 ....3 Blind mice....The spitting Image of what they claim to hate

Carry on

[Mosha]

Well she is now in Syria after crossing over from Turkey. Which begs a few questions.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Mosha

[arjunadawn]

quote : 'Al-Qaida's branch in Yemen said it directed the attack against the publication Charlie Hebdo to avenge the honor of the Prophet Muhammad, a frequent target of the weekly's satire.'

It really bothers me to read yet again that Charlie Hebdo made a target of the Prophet Muhammad, because it is simply not true.

They made a target of integrism, integrists, intolerant fools, YES, and whatever their faith (self-proclaimed Christian fundamentalists got their fair share as well) but they did NOT ever make a direct attack against the Prophet Muhammad himself - or Jesus Christ, or the Lord Buddha. This would have been totally contrary to their deeply ingrained belief in tolerance, and an insult to their level of intelligence and humor, which were remarkable.

That a handful of violent maniacs would feel insulted by Charlie Hebdo's satirical cartoons and articles makes perfect sense because they were indeed the target of these drawings and words, but I wish journalists would stop repeating ad nauseam this bit about Charlie Hebdo attacking the Prophet because, I repeat, IT IS NOT TRUE.

I would like to re post your piece above. It is an excellent observation. Thank you.

[arjunadawn]

How can you disprove Islam's promises Mr. Educator? It's practically impossible...as impossible as disproving karma...'God' etc. We need totalitarian style measures. ..and new governments to implemen them. This or eventual demographic submersion and dhimmihood. Everything else is liberal wishful thinking.

.

We need totalitarian style measures.

Are you freaking serious?

I'm afraid he is, Heijo.

Not only him, but post after post on this Forum and everywhere, suggesting that the best way to address fundamentalist intolerance and violence is ... to stop tolerating these people and simply kill them. Massively.

It illustrates the level of 'intelligence' which now prevails among the so-called 'educated' part of the world, and shows where we're headed.

I have stated repeatedly "I just don't know what the solution is." However, you clearly indicate one solution is very wrong (it may be, I don't know). So, please... give us something. What is a solution short of the madness solution above that you object to?

[alanrchase]

How can you disprove Islam's promises Mr. Educator? It's practically impossible...as impossible as disproving karma...'God' etc. We need totalitarian style measures. ..and new governments to implemen them. This or eventual demographic submersion and dhimmihood. Everything else is liberal wishful thinking.

.

We need totalitarian style measures.

Are you freaking serious?

I'm afraid he is, Heijo.

Not only him, but post after post on this Forum and everywhere, suggesting that the best way to address fundamentalist intolerance and violence is ... to stop tolerating these people and simply kill them. Massively.

It illustrates the level of 'intelligence' which now prevails among the so-called 'educated' part of the world, and shows where we're headed.

I have stated repeatedly "I just don't know what the solution is." However, you clearly indicate one solution is very wrong (it may be, I don't know). So, please... give us something. What is a solution short of the madness solution above that you object to?

Have to agree. Sounds wishy washy to have no solution, unfortunately no one seems to have any viable reply. Difficult problem. Personally do not live in fear.