Mobi's 10:1 & Raro's 4:1

[prk888]

In my view there's nothing meaty to latch onto on TV these days. Remember when Mobi had 50,000 views in 5 months (10K:1) before closing and now Raro is closing after 16,000 in 4 months (4K:1) - one of the busiest recent threads (and coincidentally an eating place I was just about to visit for the first time with some friends)

What's missing in TV Pattaya forum? Much just seems insignificant.

Why is there currently nothing of substance to keep we masses amused/informed/intrigued and regularly viewing/following?

[guzzi850m2]

Fell free to start a new topic that can keep the masses entertained.

Murder/suicide seems very popular, especially when a Westerner is the victim and all the pocket detectives here are having a field day.

Mobi's topic was very entertaining at times with small stories about the girls and this always drunk Dutchman (I think he was) causing havoc in the bar, he-he.

[Anthony5]

Fell free to start a new topic that can keep the masses entertained.

Murder/suicide seems very popular, especially when a Westerner is the victim and all the pocket detectives here are having a field day.

Mobi's topic was very entertaining at times with small stories about the girls and this always drunk Dutchman (I think he was) causing havoc in the bar, he-he.

What is entertaining about businesses that anyone with a little knowledge about business knew they were a failure from the start?

What is even more sad is that people believe they can build a successful business with a solid customer base from TV members.

[raro]

Just for the records.... I accepted a really good job offer in Bangkok in December. The wife makes pretty decent money with her cargo business. Things are today completely different to 4 months ago when we started.

We also didn't expect the staff problem to be that severe. Anyways, we had with the shop and it is on the slate.

[n210mp]

Fell free to start a new topic that can keep the masses entertained.

Murder/suicide seems very popular, especially when a Westerner is the victim and all the pocket detectives here are having a field day.

Mobi's topic was very entertaining at times with small stories about the girls and this always drunk Dutchman (I think he was) causing havoc in the bar, he-he.

What is entertaining about businesses that anyone with a little knowledge about business knew they were a failure from the start?

What is even more sad is that people believe they can build a successful business with a solid customer base from TV members.

Maybe "entertaining" is not appropriate for the reason of the two threads from Mobi and Raro

They both were plain and simply marketing ploys aimed at the ExPat potential residing or on holiday in Pattaya.

And why not?

If I were to start a business anywhere in the world I would use all manner and means of getting my product onto the market that I was serving.

Far from criticizing these two entrepreneurs, I applaud them for at least getting off their and having a go and in any event failure is only when you stop trying.

How many doors have I gone through at the time that looked as though they had gone nowhere, only to find that if I hadn't gone through that wrong door I would not have found the right door.

( Any businessman with even a little knowledge and up to his calling, will also have at one time or another gone through the wrong door)

In any event what doesn't destroy us only makes us stronger and certainly more wise!

Its easy for people on here to mock or criticism from a keyboard , maybe you could start a Thread which encompasses the difference between success and failure.

Success or failure is sometimes only separated by pure luck.

Chock Dee to all those who are still trying

Edited January 17, 2015 by n210mp

[Anthony5]

Fell free to start a new topic that can keep the masses entertained.

Murder/suicide seems very popular, especially when a Westerner is the victim and all the pocket detectives here are having a field day.

Mobi's topic was very entertaining at times with small stories about the girls and this always drunk Dutchman (I think he was) causing havoc in the bar, he-he.

What is entertaining about businesses that anyone with a little knowledge about business knew they were a failure from the start?

What is even more sad is that people believe they can build a successful business with a solid customer base from TV members.

Maybe "entertaining" is not appropriate for the reason of the two threads from Mobi and Raro

They both were plain and simply marketing ploys aimed at the ExPat potential residing or on holiday in Pattaya.

And why not?

If I were to start a business anywhere in the world I would use all manner and means of getting my product onto the market that I was serving.

Far from criticizing these two entrepreneurs, I applaud them for at least getting off their and having a go and in any event failure is only when you stop trying.

How many doors have I gone through at the time that looked as though they had gone nowhere, only to find that if I hadn't gone through that wrong door I would not have found the right door.

( Any businessman with even a little knowledge and up to his calling, will also have at one time or another gone through the wrong door)

In any event what doesn't destroy us only makes us stronger and certainly more wise!

Its easy for people on here to mock or criticism from a keyboard , maybe you could start a Thread which encompasses the difference between success and failure.

Success or failure is sometimes only separated by pure luck.

Chock Dee to all those who are still trying

My aim was not to critize the both "entrepreneurs", but everyone in who has stayed in Thailand for an extended period of time know that in Thailand success in business needs a little bit more than luck.

There are a lot more wrong doors than right doors in foreigners business in Thailand. For every successful business I can name you at least 5 failures, and this is especially with businesses that are directed at an expat clientèle.

For the past year the chance of failure in this kind of businesses, and again especially on the East side of Pattaya where tourists are far and between, the chance on failure has simply increased with a factor 50.

To start an expat oriented business in the East of Pattaya these days can be compared with being suicidal.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Anthony5

[Jip99]

Running virtually any such business in Thailand must be regarded as a life-style business (hobby) rather than a money making enterprise.

[raro]

Again, the main reason for packing in is that we cannot find staff. This was way more difficult than we would have imagined.

We had a bunch of ideas for new products, marketing campaigns etc but simply no manpower to make them happen.

[MrRed]

^There is plenty of manpower out there and skilled people.

The only problem is (as far as i can see) remunerating the right people when found at a salary they are happy to do there job and incentives also go a long way too!

It is an old adage but very true "you pay peanuts you get monkeys"

In my experience most employee problems come from staff who feel unwanted,underpaid and therefore insecurity grow.

[raro]

We paid 30% higher salaries than other places for a comparable job. This cannot be the reason.

[Anthony5]

We paid 30% higher salaries than other places for a comparable job. This cannot be the reason.

Service staff counts on tips because their salary, even when 30% higher than other places, will not give them much of a living standard. If turnover is low there will also be no tips. Staff has plenty of possibilities to get a job in the service sector, so if they see the tips aren't coming they move on quickly.

[prk888]

now this thread demonstrated by the lively comments to date accidentally could be exactly what has been missing recently and could keep me and many others interested & following on a regular basis. There's no right or wrong but subjective observations are all valid. Comments and observations from those who have succeeded and/or just missed here will be more than valid and I do hope we don't start getting typical crass comments from those who lean that way. Thanks

[harrry]

Sorry you closed but I am sure a lot of people enjoyed some good food while you were there. I hope things go well with the new job.

[WitawatWatawit]

OP, we all like thrills and spills, but you're being somewhat hopeful of there being enough to keep you entertained day-in, day-out. There are always "dry news days", so to speak. It's like going to your local - some days it's just the same boring old pharts, but then Slick Dick rolls up with outrageous yarns about his latest conquests and travels. You get all enthused and go home and put a grin on the missus' face. Well, sorry I can't entertain you as I'm one of those boring old pharts - even worse, I'm a boring old phart who can no longer drink. It doesn't get worse than that. Sigh. Tah-dum, rah-dum, tah-dum. Hmm. Leave you with it.

[MrRed]

We paid 30% higher salaries than other places for a comparable job. This cannot be the reason.

Interesting...so did you have the staff? as you said "we paid" If so they then left which indicates it was the conditions maybe or the work involved...or what do you think?

30% of what? what was the position? how much was the monthly wage because if you are talking in the 10.000 a month bracket then employers will always have problems.

In interested to know what the position was raro and the remuneration offered.

[balo]

Why should he inform you about that ?

Its no ones business which salaries he offered. And not the reason why he closed the doors.

And Mobi's was a great success, only health issues prevented him from carry on.

[MrRed]

Why should he inform you about that ?

Its no ones business which salaries he offered. And not the reason why he closed the doors.

And Mobi's was a great success, only health issues prevented him from carry on.

"Again, the main reason for packing in is that we cannot find staff. This was way more difficult than we would have imagined.

We had a bunch of ideas for new products, marketing campaigns etc but simply no manpower to make them happen. "

This is what raro said......

I suggest you read the posts before you open your mouth.......

[n210mp]

Fell free to start a new topic that can keep the masses entertained.

Murder/suicide seems very popular, especially when a Westerner is the victim and all the pocket detectives here are having a field day.

Mobi's topic was very entertaining at times with small stories about the girls and this always drunk Dutchman (I think he was) causing havoc in the bar, he-he.

What is entertaining about businesses that anyone with a little knowledge about business knew they were a failure from the start?

What is even more sad is that people believe they can build a successful business with a solid customer base from TV members.

Maybe "entertaining" is not appropriate for the reason of the two threads from Mobi and Raro

They both were plain and simply marketing ploys aimed at the ExPat potential residing or on holiday in Pattaya.

And why not?

If I were to start a business anywhere in the world I would use all manner and means of getting my product onto the market that I was serving.

Far from criticizing these two entrepreneurs, I applaud them for at least getting off their and having a go and in any event failure is only when you stop trying.

How many doors have I gone through at the time that looked as though they had gone nowhere, only to find that if I hadn't gone through that wrong door I would not have found the right door.

( Any businessman with even a little knowledge and up to his calling, will also have at one time or another gone through the wrong door)

In any event what doesn't destroy us only makes us stronger and certainly more wise!

Its easy for people on here to mock or criticism from a keyboard , maybe you could start a Thread which encompasses the difference between success and failure.

Success or failure is sometimes only separated by pure luck.

Chock Dee to all those who are still trying

My aim was not to critize the both "entrepreneurs", but everyone in who has stayed in Thailand for an extended period of time know that in Thailand success in business needs a little bit more than luck.

There are a lot more wrong doors than right doors in foreigners business in Thailand. For every successful business I can name you at least 5 failures, and this is especially with businesses that are directed at an expat clientèle.

For the past year the chance of failure in this kind of businesses, and again especially on the East side of Pattaya where tourists are far and between, the chance on failure has simply increased with a factor 50.

To start an expat oriented business in the East of Pattaya these days can be compared with being suicidal.

I generally agree with your "general" sentiment but with just one difference;

"until I walk in the moccasins of any person for many moons I will not criticize his actions"

For all the reason that you state I agree and would conventionally stop an individual from starting a business.

There are many reasons however that we are not privy to where it might have been necessary for an individual to at least try to make a business, generating work, even at the lowest level, where a modest income or wage would have been better than no income at all and in effect like a tradesman the income would have been derived from the output of the persons own hands or the small number of staff needed to do do nearly a 24 hour service in raros case.

In Raros burger "business" I think that He was maybe trying to create some extra income actually because of the very poor economic situation within Pattaya that your describe so well.

Like he say in answer to the posters herein, Raros could not get reliable staff and then you heard him also state that He had recently got a job in bangkok

Well one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist or Sherlock Holmes to deduce that things before the job acquisition in Bangkok and before the burger bar must at least have been a little tight for him financially and with a little luck the burger bar could have fulfilled the appetite for a little extra cash and also a hungry belly for some of those who became regular customer (Pardon the pun)

Whilst I agree with most of your business sentiment for not creating a business in certain shrinking sectors or conditions I also understand why sometimes there is a need for risk taking and the point you make about not relying on luck is IMHO just a tad arrogant.

Now I am not saying that you are arrogant in your appraisal but maybe a little too inflexible in your judgement of a situation that you are not familiar with.

This thread was linked to individuals and not generalities and with a little luck some one who has a little luck on his side while not making big Bucks could have at least an income to make do on until the business climate improves,

Its very hard and sometimes impossible for the "doers" of this world just to sit back and do nothing when the bills need paying

Good on you Raro for at least having a go and the very best of luck to you in your new job in bangkok.

You deserve success for your constant refusal to back down to this deflating market we have in Pattaya indeed the Western world , failure is when you throw the towel in and you have never done that yet!

[raro]

We paid 30% higher salaries than other places for a comparable job. This cannot be the reason.

Interesting...so did you have the staff? as you said "we paid" If so they then left which indicates it was the conditions maybe or the work involved...or what do you think?

30% of what? what was the position? how much was the monthly wage because if you are talking in the 10.000 a month bracket then employers will always have problems.

In interested to know what the position was raro and the remuneration offered.

No problem, I can disclose this.

We offered 12,000 a month with social security, read: a real employment. Regular going rate for waitresses is 9,000 a month. Yes, there were not many tips, but I don't think that they make 3,000 Baht in tips at the other shops either. We also offered a percentage of the turnover if a certain minimum was reached, a concept probably too abstract to most of them.

We had eight staff in less than four months. I don't want to go into the details, but the reasons for leaving were either family (father sick...) or new boyfriend (3x) and two couldn't deal with criticism.

I am working now with a rather large engineering/construction company in Bangkok. We face the exact same problem throughout all levels. From the skilled labourer who does the dirty work with powerdrill and hard hat and may or may not show up tomorrow up to the new CFO who was a no-show on his first working day.

Listening around with other business owners, managers etc, it is the single biggest problem of running any business. Everybody is hiring and desperate for staff.

[raro]

@n210mp:

Let me answer also to this (is this an investigation what? )

Indeed. shortly after we started the burger shop I got a phone call from a head hunter and consequently a job offer I couldn't say no to. At the same time Mrs. raro got more and more freelance jobs in the heavy transport game which earn pretty decent money but cannot be done out of a burger joint. Hence, the shop became a burden and has to go. That simple.

[seasia]

I wasn`t even aware they had closed.

I have no business here nor do I want one but anytime I speak with anyone who has, they all seem to talk about staff being the biggest drawback.

I prefer not to name it but a large company with business in Pattaya and other parts of Thailand offer a fairly decent overall package, they give an extra 1 month salary as a Xmas bonus.

What happens when that is paid out?, they have staff leave or simply not even turn up, no warning.

i thought running a business in the UK was tough enough but that seems to pale compared to here.

I found it difficult to find good staff there also but after a lot of perseverance ended up with a good team

As another example a small business here I give a little custom to, foreign owned, took on what turned out to be a fairly useless member of staff.

I accepted that as one of those things, didn`t put me off but anyone encountering that as an introduction would likely never return.

That staff member either left or was pushed, no idea which.

Not easy here at all.

[harrry]

raro, don;t take any notice of the knockers, they cannot even sing for their supper. It is good to see someone paying their staff properly and as a proper job, social security is important and very valuable but I guess that most workers in that kind of job here do not appreciate that yet.

It really is not anyone's business to question a person about his business but it is interesting to hear the answers as it helps broaden our knowledge about employment here. I am glad the cafe did not use your frypans as I do not think anyone could survive being hit by one for saying the burger was under/over cooked.

[MrRed]

I didn't know it was flipping burgers raro sorry.

Good luck in Bangkok...is there still a position available for a financial officer in the company?

[MrRed]

raro, don;t take any notice of the knockers, they cannot even sing for their supper. It is good to see someone paying their staff properly and as a proper job, social security is important and very valuable but I guess that most workers in that kind of job here do not appreciate that yet.

It really is not anyone's business to question a person about his business but it is interesting to hear the answers as it helps broaden our knowledge about employment here. I am glad the cafe did not use your frypans as I do not think anyone could survive being hit by one for saying the burger was under/over cooked.

Would you be happy for your son or daughter to be working in a burger bar?

Would you say well done to them for getting a "proper job"

As you know so much about the Thai social security system and how valuable it is......would you let us all know the benefits of of it.

I was responding to raro and nobody else... he has honestly answered so as to understand the point he was making and the difficulty he found getting staff.....no need for your stupid insults and yes i have had to sing for my supper.

[harrry]

raro, don;t take any notice of the knockers, they cannot even sing for their supper. It is good to see someone paying their staff properly and as a proper job, social security is important and very valuable but I guess that most workers in that kind of job here do not appreciate that yet.

It really is not anyone's business to question a person about his business but it is interesting to hear the answers as it helps broaden our knowledge about employment here. I am glad the cafe did not use your frypans as I do not think anyone could survive being hit by one for saying the burger was under/over cooked.

Would you be happy for your son or daughter to be working in a burger bar?

Would you say well done to them for getting a "proper job"

As you know so much about the Thai social security system and how valuable it is......would you let us all know the benefits of of it.

I was responding to raro and nobody else... he has honestly answered so as to understand the point he was making and the difficulty he found getting staff.....no need for your stupid insults and yes i have had to sing for my supper.

You were responding to everyone, this is a forum. If you were only responding to raro you should have used a personal message.

Your reply here shows your ignorance about Thailand. The social services he was paying entitles the worker to health services in a hospital he registers for and includes many of the private ones, It pays an unemployment benifit,.disability and on retiring a pension or lump sum.

[raro]

Guys, chill pills please, I don't want to put on my moderator cap in this thread.

As a matter of fact, a 12,000 Baht salary with a social security card (which offers you free health care in government hospitals) is a pretty decent gig for the majority in this country. An accountant with a bachelor degree doesn't make much more.

[transam]

Guys, chill pills please, I don't want to put on my moderator cap in this thread.

As a matter of fact, a 12,000 Baht salary with a social security card (which offers you free health care in government hospitals) is a pretty decent gig for the majority in this country. An accountant with a bachelor degree doesn't make much more.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, your post is amongst chums, noooooooooooooo need for the mod thingy............Hmmmmmm, can I have a job ........

[boldface]

What the dark side, and arguably Pattaya, needs is a cull of restaurants and bars. Especially on the dark side.

There are too many and not enough customers, especially for those that target farang trade exclusively. Although there are a lot of people living on the darkside, tourists are at a minimum, and the people that do live there live there for a reason. They do not want all the time girly bars, loud crap music, burgers and chips, or even to go out every night. I would say that most people eat at home, go out a few nights a week and when they do, they want to go out and chat with mates which is basically typical of the demographic that lives here.

There are some real geniuses that come to town and think it is a bright idea to set up a business, or more likely buy one that has just gone broke or the oil worker has got bored supporting. Well, when I say geniuses, I mean idiots. No, this is not set against the Mod in question before the delete button gets activated. Case in point, Fishermans place near the lake, good curry, solid following, busiest place around the lake most days, just updated, and some genius then pumps a loads of money into a curry house and bar where the old irish bar place used to be. How many curry eaters are there of an evening? Net effect, both places will die a death trying to exist side by side.

Bars, mostly left unattended by the owner, with thai farms girls and older warriors playing rap, morlam, that irritating thai style club music (you know the one, hand clap goes... clap .... clap clap....clap....clap clap) played too loud, too often, and too invasive with poor sound systems. Often next door to others of the same ilk, which all have a token older chap sat in their cherishing a beer as if when the bottle is empty he will expire with it, and the standard 4 girls playing on their phones. For those looking for girls, they know that if a bar has more than a couple of blokes in there, it is only the ropey ones left o they move on. The thought struck me a couple of days ago that certainly around the lake if there were only 2 beer bars and one bigger venue like Ponderosa, they all would be full with good atmosphere, and more importantly, turn over. Alas though, where as in normal places natural selection would kill off all of the bars and restaurants that are on their knees, here, another johnny come lately gets off the boat and despite the fact his life experience is driving a bin lorry, decides he can run, in a foreign country where he has no idea of the language and laws, run an bar or restaurant. Only people who make money from this are the landlords and everyone else puts it down to a lesson hard learnt.

Food places are always going to struggle for the reason mentioned above. However, the ones that work off consistent quality at a reasonable price, and offer something a little different to all the other bog standard burger, pie, crap steak, hotdog, etc etc. An example would be the Mediterranean resort, but you will note that now someone else has opened Nibbles and something (crap name by the way if you are a reader) which offers tapas etc the same the Med place. What is the moto around here? If you can't think of something yourself, copy someone else, try to take some of their customers and you all go to the toilet? Might be OK with those two as they own the buildings rather than rent.

Dragging back a little on topic, a critique of the two places.

Mobi's was the only one of the beer bars me and the wife went to, for all the reasons stated before on his thread. Nice people, food ok, interesting music; a nice relaxing place to beer and the lights were not burning the back of your eyes off. Importantly, the host and hostess was there most of the time and that make a huge difference to the service customers receive. A huge difference. When they left, we went back a few times, and it had reverted back to your typical 6 month turn over type of joint. He's a nice guy, but he's not a publican or host and has no idea about running a bar.

Raro's - best burger in the dark side and the chips were top notch. Honest question - did you ever break even? Or get close? If you didn't it was not because of lack of staff. Lacked consistency, lacked hygiene in terms of cooking preparation and storage which ultimately stopped us going back. the place also looked like a right shambles as well. With the idea and the quality of the food, in the right venue (think of the pastrami deli place in Jomtien; they had fitted the place out well) you would be full. Also, the location was a pain in the arse as well. Capped off with the pizza place opening up on the road around the corner where hungry people would stop first, you were always going to struggle. Staff here tend to leave non busy places; not about the money, they get shit bored as they rather play with their phones when they have work to do. No fun playing with their phones when they have no work to do. But anyway, regardless of new job, with the right venue, that product would have sold big. Ever thought of selling the burgers through a bar that doesn't do food?

Both places were good; I was a customer at both of them and it a shame they have gone. However, I hope more places would close. Sorry, but I do. Am I alone in wishing this? The reason being that there is lots of quantity or places but there is seldom any quality and when a quality place opens, they close just as quickly and this is all about over supply.

If I was to consider opening any type of bar of restaurant here, here is the check list I would use.

1 - Do you own the building? If not, don't do it.

2 - Do you have experience of running a bar / restaurant elsewhere? If not, most likely do not do it. Attitude and personality is vital if no experience.

3 - Are you going to attract customers in a way that does not include girls and beer cost? If not, they do not do it.

4 - Is there someone doing the same thing in the dark side within 2km? If so, don't do it.

5 - Are you only doing this because you think it is easy, how hard can it be, and I got her pregnant so need to live here and can't do anything else? If so, don't do it.

right - that should spice the thread up.

Edited January 17, 2015 by boldface

[raro]

Thanks a lot for your rant that covered every facet from spot on to completely off the mark.

Interesting comments on food consistency and hygene ... I reckon this has to do with changing staff.

.//edit : smiley added

[boldface]

It wasn't all about you mate. Only one small section was. Also it wasn't a "rant" it was an observation from someone who has owned and run restaurants before and indeed trained as a chef and has a degree in hospitality management. As for hygiene and consistency, you know yourself from your thread I had raw sausages, burnt on the ouside, that were stacked up at air temperature on a BBQ grill likely all day half cooked (huge hygene nono) within about a month of opening. Was that staff shortages? A few weeks later, raw chicken wings. Burnt on the outside and blood raw on the inside. Was that down to staff shortages? Could it be that the people running it had no clue about running a professional kitchen and food service in a hygienic manner? If you would like to defend your food consistency then aside from burgers, one customers actual experience is that yes there was consistency; poorly cooked so raw in the middle.

Before moving to Pattaya I was all for people "having a go" but now I am completely on the reverse. Don't have a go. Instead, stand on the street handing out 100 baht notes to random people for an hour each day and after a few weeks, you can stop. Same amount of cash down the drain, and at least there was no sweat, tears, and heartache involved.

Edited January 17, 2015 by boldface