Dispute With Thai Neighbour

[ZZZ]

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?news...mp;coun_code=th

Thai Court Sentences Dane to 15 Years Imprisonment

"I am shocked," admitted Danish consul in Thailand, Ulrik Holt-Sorensen when the verdict in the grotesque case against the 44 year old Dane, James Christensen, was explained to him.

A Thai judge in the provincial court in Langsuan in Chumporn in Southern Thailand yesterday found James Christensen guilty of attempted arson against his Thai neighbor back in February last year and consequently sentenced him to 15 years in prison. In the same verdict, the judge then pardonned him of the last five years of the sentence, so James will now "only" have to spend ten years in prison.

The judge based his verdict of guilty on the fact that James had "admitted" that the gas tanks found at the neighbors farm, where a small fire had taken place, "could possibly be his" although he denied ever having carried them over there or intended to burn down the neighbor's farm. He had put them in front of his house because they were empty.

No witnesses could substantiate the neighbors claim that James Christensen had anything to do with the small fire that erupted at his place on 15 February 2005. The small fire was quickly put out by the fire brigade and damages were estimated at 54.000 Baht.

James Christensen's advisors, including the Danish consul in Bangkok, had all told him that the acquittal in the case was a mere formality. Therefore he had not used the opportunity to flee Thailand that was opened to him when he was released on a bail a few weeks ago posted by the mayor in the little town after Danish daily BT had revealed the bizarre case. Fleeing Thailand would of course have been illegal, but James had planned to leave for Denmark anyway immiately after the expected acquittal. Instead he was put right back behind bars.

“He was shocked. We were surprised too, because we didn’t really think that there was any evidence to prove the accusations,” Ulrik Sorensen, who is head of Denmark’s consular affairs in Bangkok, has told the Danish news agency Ritzau.

44 year-old James Christensen now intends to appeal the verdict to a higher court of law, but it can easily be another year and a half before such an appeal will be treated. In the meantime, he may again be released on bail, but the amount might be higher this time, and it is not certain if James' sister in Denmark will be able to raise the new amount, estimated to be around 80.000 Danish kroner.

An Escalating Dispute Between Neighbors

James Christensen was arrested in February 2005, and shortly after he was charged with arson. The whole case started as a dispute between the Dane and his neighbor. James Christensen was feeding and taking in stray dogs at his rented house on a quiet street. As the cocks at a fighting cock farm 700 meters away started to disappear, James Christensen was blamed for not being able to control his dogs.

At first he agreed to pay compensation to the chicken farmer when ever a dead chickens were found in the area. The increasing amounts of money demanded by the farmer resulted in James Christensen filing a complaint with the local police. Then his dog started dying one by one by rat poison.

The fight peaked when the neighbor after the small fire at his farm reported the attempted arson to the police and the police consequently arrested James based on the neighbors accusations and the finding of gas tanks that might have belonged to James on the farm and footprints that they thought could match the tall Dane's.

No Bail Has Been Set

James Christensen was yesterday immediately after the sentencing moved back to his prison cell, and he will now wait for a chance to be released on bail. However, no bail has yet been set by the court, but the Danish Embassy’s head of consular affairs Ulrik Sorensen expects that it will be set at 500,000 Thai Baht (approx. 80,000 DKK). He does not wish to predict what chances James Christensen will have in a second trial.

"It is impossible to say. No one has seen him carry those gas tanks over to the chicken farm. I have no idea about how this will end," Ulrik Sorensen tells Ritzau.

[austallia_1980]

Ive never felt close to comfortable or safe outside of Bangkok.

[austallia_1980]

"the police consequently arrested James based on the neighbors accusations and the finding of gas tanks that might have belonged to James on the farm and footprints that they thought could match the tall Dane's."

Hmmm... I over looked this the first time I read the article, and mistakenly assumed that they had no evidence. Now that the foot prints have been brought into the mix....

[Bryan in Isaan]

I hope the Thai authorities offered some robust evidence that the footprints came from the Dane, that is, a match with a specific pair of shoes, maybe even a plaster cast - not just the fact that the prints were longer than average. I hope the Dane gets a fair trial. It doesn't sound good.

[Scott]

Well the moral of the story is...if you play with fire, you'll get burned. Or if something happens blame the falang.

What's been written so far, it's really quite difficult to know who did what. I hope that somewhere along the line justice prevails.

[Scott]

Another moral to this story is...don't touch another man's cock.

[marquess]

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?news...mp;coun_code=th

Thai Court Sentences Dane to 15 Years Imprisonment

"I am shocked," admitted Danish consul in Thailand, Ulrik Holt-Sorensen when the verdict in the grotesque case against the 44 year old Dane, James Christensen, was explained to him.

A Thai judge in the provincial court in Langsuan in Chumporn in Southern Thailand yesterday found James Christensen guilty of attempted arson against his Thai neighbor back in February last year and consequently sentenced him to 15 years in prison. In the same verdict, the judge then pardonned him of the last five years of the sentence, so James will now "only" have to spend ten years in prison.

The judge based his verdict of guilty on the fact that James had "admitted" that the gas tanks found at the neighbors farm, where a small fire had taken place, "could possibly be his" although he denied ever having carried them over there or intended to burn down the neighbor's farm. He had put them in front of his house because they were empty.

No witnesses could substantiate the neighbors claim that James Christensen had anything to do with the small fire that erupted at his place on 15 February 2005. The small fire was quickly put out by the fire brigade and damages were estimated at 54.000 Baht.

James Christensen's advisors, including the Danish consul in Bangkok, had all told him that the acquittal in the case was a mere formality. Therefore he had not used the opportunity to flee Thailand that was opened to him when he was released on a bail a few weeks ago posted by the mayor in the little town after Danish daily BT had revealed the bizarre case. Fleeing Thailand would of course have been illegal, but James had planned to leave for Denmark anyway immiately after the expected acquittal. Instead he was put right back behind bars.

“He was shocked. We were surprised too, because we didn’t really think that there was any evidence to prove the accusations,” Ulrik Sorensen, who is head of Denmark’s consular affairs in Bangkok, has told the Danish news agency Ritzau.

44 year-old James Christensen now intends to appeal the verdict to a higher court of law, but it can easily be another year and a half before such an appeal will be treated. In the meantime, he may again be released on bail, but the amount might be higher this time, and it is not certain if James' sister in Denmark will be able to raise the new amount, estimated to be around 80.000 Danish kroner.

An Escalating Dispute Between Neighbors

James Christensen was arrested in February 2005, and shortly after he was charged with arson. The whole case started as a dispute between the Dane and his neighbor. James Christensen was feeding and taking in stray dogs at his rented house on a quiet street. As the cocks at a fighting cock farm 700 meters away started to disappear, James Christensen was blamed for not being able to control his dogs.

At first he agreed to pay compensation to the chicken farmer when ever a dead chickens were found in the area. The increasing amounts of money demanded by the farmer resulted in James Christensen filing a complaint with the local police. Then his dog started dying one by one by rat poison.

The fight peaked when the neighbor after the small fire at his farm reported the attempted arson to the police and the police consequently arrested James based on the neighbors accusations and the finding of gas tanks that might have belonged to James on the farm and footprints that they thought could match the tall Dane's.

No Bail Has Been Set

James Christensen was yesterday immediately after the sentencing moved back to his prison cell, and he will now wait for a chance to be released on bail. However, no bail has yet been set by the court, but the Danish Embassy’s head of consular affairs Ulrik Sorensen expects that it will be set at 500,000 Thai Baht (approx. 80,000 DKK). He does not wish to predict what chances James Christensen will have in a second trial.

"It is impossible to say. No one has seen him carry those gas tanks over to the chicken farm. I have no idea about how this will end," Ulrik Sorensen tells Ritzau.

Disputes with neighbours are always best avoided in any country, but here they should be avoided like the Plague! A farang can never win here, he is always in the wrong (and sometimes rightly so). In a group society like this one, there is never a shortage of witnesses to say that you did something that you did not do. Yet on the otherside of the coin rich murders walk free. Live and enjoy here, but remember you have virtually no rights whatsoever, when you forget that, then the trouble really starts! I hope that sensibile justice will prevail here!

[cclub75]

Very scary indeed.

And even, if he really was guilty, a sentence of 15 years of jail is shocking.

On one hand, Thailand seems OK to live. It's not Africa. But on another hand, and if you are not lucky, you can find yourself in a total mess if you're caught in the amazing thai justice system.

Appeal, fair trial, proper investigation, scientific police, etc. can be sadly... foreign concepts here.

You can be the victim of an insane thai "judge" in some remote areas... And then... slowly dying in jail, waiting for the "appeal" that could save you...

[Heng]

He might be in the can because of the ubiquitous "just set a fire in front of their house to teach'em a lesson.... what are they going to do? have you arrested?" type posts here at TV.

[kat]

It seems to be a typical set-up from the beginning. He started harboring strays, the neighbors didn't like it, maybe a chicken or two started to disappear for which he volunteered compensation, and then an avenue was opened for abuse.

In terms of the trial, it seems to me he didn't pay off the right people for his "justice".

Now entertaining the idea that he is in fact guilty, we have to ask, how is it proven (witnesses, evidence, motives of witnesses and accused), and secondly, is the punishment proportionate to the crime.

So, I'll leave you with three questions:

is secondary (not the house, but surrounding property) damage worth 54,00 baht proportionate to 10-15 years prison? How does this compare to other trials of similar property disputes?

what are the motives of both the defendent and plantiffs?

I seriously doubt if these questions were even posed, nevermind answered.

*edit typos

Edited August 18, 2006 by kat

[tourleadersi]

Don't know the ins and outs of the case so won't comment on that. However, it did say that there were gas canisters outside the guys place, perhaps they were in the fire that was set? If that is the case then pressurised gas canisters are not pretty when they go off. Maybe he loved the sound of dogs so much he wanted the chickens to go 'whoof!' There would have been pieces of fried chicken reigning down all over the place.

Like I said, don't have an opinion on who did it, but whoever did do it was intending to hurt someone if they involved gas.

[kat]

The gas canisters were empty, and were set in front of his place. They turned up at the neighbors location, where a small fire erupted, that may or may not have been caused by the canisters.

* I think it would be a grave injustice if he is held responsible for empty gas canisters outside his home here, given the fact that full canisters are shuttled around the city on motorbikes.

Edited August 18, 2006 by kat

[tourleadersi]

The gas canisters were empty, and were set in front of his place. They turned up at the neighbors location, where a small fire erupted, that may or may not have been caused by the canisters.

* I think it would be a grave injustice if he is held responsible for empty gas canisters outside his home here, given the fact that full canisters are shuttled around the city on motorbikes.

Its true Kat but they are probably still semi-presurised. All I know is that I wouldn't want to be stood next to one if it was in a fire. I didn't mean to say that I felt that he had planted them there. Surely there would be some fingerprint evidence, which would only prove that they were his. The footprint might prove that he was on the land, but any good defence lawyer could argue that he was there to retrieve his dog earlier in the day....

Sounds like he is feeling the sharp end of rough justice at the moment. I can't even begin to imagine how he must be feeling if he is innocent.

[Heng]

is secondary (not the house, but surrounding property) damage worth 54,00 baht proportionate to 10-15 years prison? How does this compare to other trials of similar property disputes?

54,000 Baht might be a days pay to some, but to some Issanites, that might be several years of work.

I'm not sure if 'just a little bit of arson' should necessarily mean a reduction of sentence. One certainly wouldn't expect it in cases of 'just a little bit' of rape or murder, surely; both felonies as well.

[taxexile]

sounds like country justice meted out to an unwanted and unpopular outsider 'deliverance" style.

there is probably more to this story that has been reported , if only there were some investigative reporters in this country with some inquisitiveness and balls , who could bring to the attention of the wider public , cases like this , involving seemingly vicious sentencing for relatively minor crimes , whether they involve falangs or thais.

i doubt if proper investigating procedures were used by the police , and the nonchalance of the danish embassy and the defendants "lawyer" leaves a lot to be desired.

We were surprised too, because we didn’t really think that there was any evidence to prove the accusations,” Ulrik Sorensen, who is head of Denmark’s consular affairs in Bangkok, has told the Danish news agency Ritzau.

all in all i agree with kat , and i'm sure the plaintiff and the judge enjoyed a fine meal together after the verdict

[astral]

Surely there would be some fingerprint evidence, which would only prove that they were his. The footprint might prove that he was on the land, but any good defence lawyer could argue that he was there to retrieve his dog earlier in the day....

Come on, this is Thailand.

You must have seen the photos of the police handling evidence of a bomb blast in the south,

with bare hands..............

There are little or no forensic skills in the Thai police force.

They rely on confessions.

Unfortunatley this guy seems to have made some sort of confession.

It all looks very suspect to me.

[udon]

I wonder if the judge is related to the illiterate one in Siem Reap?

Same M.O.

[kat]

is secondary (not the house, but surrounding property) damage worth 54,00 baht proportionate to 10-15 years prison? How does this compare to other trials of similar property disputes?

54,000 Baht might be a days pay to some, but to some Issanites, that might be several years of work.

I'm not sure if 'just a little bit of arson' should necessarily mean a reduction of sentence. One certainly wouldn't expect it in cases of 'just a little bit' of rape or murder, surely; both felonies as well.

No, you can't generally quantify rape or murder, but it is done all the time in compensation verdicts. As you said. 54,000 baht takes years to earn in Issan for most, so I find it curious that such a high sum was assessed for burnt property that did not ential the destruction of housing.

A little bit of arson doesn't warrant a reduction of sentence, but the sentence should be proportionate in the first place. This one is not under any standard, including Thailand's "standard".

[terry57]

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?news...mp;coun_code=th

Thai Court Sentences Dane to 15 Years Imprisonment

"I am shocked," admitted Danish consul in Thailand, Ulrik Holt-Sorensen when the verdict in the grotesque case against the 44 year old Dane, James Christensen, was explained to him.

r.

James

Disputes with neighbours are always best avoided in any country, but here they should be avoided like the Plague! A farang can never win here, he is always in the wrong (and sometimes rightly so). In a group society like this one, there is never a shortage of witnesses to say that you did something that you did not do. Yet on the otherside of the coin rich murders walk free. Live and enjoy here, but remember you have virtually no rights whatsoever, when you forget that, then the trouble really starts! I hope that sensibile justice will prevail here!

how true do you speak my man,

you are a frigging brain surgeon my top and learn'nd friend.

now i think every farang has to realise that we play by different rules when we live in los.

there is only ever one person who is right when you get offside with a thai.

thats the thai, so dont even bother as you will lose.

lifes bleeding cheap here mate and farangs are a dime a dozen.

you must try your hardest not to get involved and seek the middle path and be prepared to back down.

cheers mate

[terry57]

Another moral to this story is...don't touch another man's cock.

not unless you are a lady boy and then it must be done gently as not to hurt the little fella.

[jbowman1993]

[terry57]

Ive never felt close to comfortable or safe outside of Bangkok.

i feel comfortable every where in thailand as i never argue with the thai for any reason.

after all my years of association with this country id rather back down even if i am right.

things can turn very very nasty if you want to push the point.

not worth it bro as this dude has just found out.

if you dont know thailand you will not understand me but ill give you the big tip mate.

im freaking spot on.

ask the old hands.

cheers mate

[visarunner]

Another sad story and hope he get's released soon.

Never mess with Thai's , you can only loose.

What was going on in the mind of this judge?

[sbk]

Not sure why we are talking about an Isaan persons salary when this took place in Chumpon?

And frankly, if he'd been Thai this wouldn't have been resolved at court.

I don't know the circumstances of the case other than what is reported in this thread so believe any further speculation would be foolish.

[LoveDaBlues]

Ive never felt close to comfortable or safe outside of Bangkok.

Strange. After being in LOS for one year I've only had two 'incidents' happen; both were in BKK and I've spent less than 2 weeks in BKK. I feel much safer in the country.

Something not right here; my Thai neighbors pretty much ignore me and I them. We smile and wave at each other; that's about it. Works for me.

[jimmy5L]

Ive never felt close to comfortable or safe outside of Bangkok.

i feel comfortable every where in thailand as i never argue with the thai for any reason.

after all my years of association with this country id rather back down even if i am right.

things can turn very very nasty if you want to push the point.

not worth it bro as this dude has just found out.

if you dont know thailand you will not understand me but ill give you the big tip mate.

im freaking spot on.

ask the old hands.

cheers mate

I’m not an "old hand", but you’re absolutely right! When trouble arrive say you’re sorry and smile. The Thais think they won the case from a farang and are happy!

A Thai doesn’t want to "lose face" so you cann’t win!

Any way, this Dane is in big trouble! (for a little stupid thing)

[keda]

Strange. After being in LOS for one year I've only had two 'incidents' happen; both were in BKK and I've spent less than 2 weeks in BKK. I feel much safer in the country.

Something not right here; my Thai neighbors pretty much ignore me and I them. We smile and wave at each other; that's about it. Works for me.

I think by and large Thais are ok in a domestic situation, but as with everything else this applys only if you stay on their happy side, but when things start to go awry, whether farang fault or not, best to back off with or without a smile.

I hope common sense gets the better of the next trial judge, though it may be a matter of how much the poor sod can afford.

keda

[keda]

Btw, and quite sure it crossed other minds too, I wouldn't be surprised if the 'small fire' was a DIY job that went wrong.

According to the evidence as published, this would be as likely as the Dane having resorted to arson in a situation that would have the blame point straight at him.

keda

[sbk]

Btw, and quite sure it crossed other minds too, I wouldn't be surprised if the 'small fire' was a DIY job that went wrong.

According to the evidence as published, this would be as likely as the Dane having resorted to arson in a situation that would have the blame point straight at him.

keda

Evidence as published, as you so correctly point out. Only these two know what the truth is. There are two sides to every story and I think it highly interesting that people automatically assume innocence on the part of the farang and blame on the part of the Thai. There are just as many short tempered dodgy farangs around as there are Thais.

So, I think random speculation on this story is pretty silly. No one who knows the guy, the area or the facts has actually posted anything to negate or validate any theories put forth here.

[ZZZ]

Looks like the guy had some really bad luck. On top of spending 15 month i jail just waiting for his day in court a Danish embassy employee emptied his bank account

Some more info from the same source:

James, who pleads not guilty, was arrested and during his fifteen months ordeal in prison six of them in isolation. This resulted in breakdowns where James was admitted to hospital. The Dane has furthermore lost 25 kilos and several teethes as a result of lack of C-vitamins.

On top of this he was betrayed by an employee at the Danish embassy who stole all his saving money from his bank account.

It was not until the Danish newspaper BT made the story public that James Christensen was released on June 2. 2006. The mayor of Langsuan bailed him out for approximately 500.000 Baht just a couple of days after the article about James Christensen made headlines in Denmark.

The trial starting today will run for three days and includes several witnesses.

If James Christensen is found guilty he will face up to lifetime in Thai prison.