Amnat refused to do 90 Day Report

[Liquorice]

A very good UK friend of mine, who has had a Thai partner for 17 years, was refused a 90 day report at Amnat yesterday.

Apparently there is a problem, but he can't fix it because he doesn't know what the problem is.

He has just retired and decided to move to Thailand on a permanent basis.

He applied for a Non Imm 'O' Visa from Hull 5 days before his booked flights, but Hull said it could take 7 days as they were issued by London.

So he entered Thailand on a Visa exempt stamp, with the intention of getting a Non Imm O from Bangkok, where they intended to stay for a couple of weeks after he arrived. He gets totally confused with the application processes within Thailand, so he decided to use a well known legal company to just get everything completed in one hit.

He got a Non Imm O Visa, an Extension of Stay based on retirement a multi entry re-entry permit and a notice of his next due date to report. (90 days) for a total cost of just under 50,000 baht.

After a couple of weeks they moved to their permanent home near Amnat Charoen and following my advice he completed a TM28 and TM30 form, which he took to Amnat Immigration to register a change of address from the Bangkok address they used to get the initial Visa and Extension.

He did that in November without any problems.

But yesterday (22/1/15) they refused to do his 90 Day report which was due on 25/1/15. He made 3 separate attempts but Amnat refused, never giving a reason, other than he needed to contact Bangkok Immigration.

Having last night viewed his Visa, Extension etc, I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is, but I'd like a second opinion.

He arrived in Thailand 15th Oct 2014.

His Non Imm O Visa is dated valid from 28/10/14 and subsequently stamped 'USED'.

His Extension of stay based on retirement is dated valid from 29/10/14.

His first notice to report is dated 25/1/15.

Nothing wrong there. But his extension is stamped with his permitted stay up to 28/1/15

It appears to me that some clown Immigration Officer has added the 90 days of the Non Imm O to his Extension giving him 15 months before he has to renew the extension.

He would have to do 4 x 90 Day reports before his extension was next due and I can understand Amnats reluctance to get involved.

They also questioned if he had the 800,000 baht deposited in a Thai bank. Are they smelling a rat.

[ubonjoe]

They always start an extension from the date the 90 day entry ends so nothing unusual there.

Did he show immigration the receipts for the T28 and TM38 he submitted before when he tried to do the 90 day report to prove he is living within Amnat's area of responsibility? If not that is the problem. They may of been thinking he had not moved and was just traveling around Thailand trying to do his report there.

They could well be smelling a rat also. I hope he does not have fake stamps.

Immigration has made moves to stop those shady under the table visas/extensions of stay.

He has a few days to get it sorted. He can do his report 7 days late (including the report date) and not be fined 2000 baht.

[glegolo]

They smell a rat, because there are a rat...

Glegolo

[lopburi3]

But his extension is stamped with his permitted stay up to 28/1/15

Is this a typo? You do understand that date is next week - obviously not a one year extension - but a 90 day stay based on the non immigrant O entry marked used. Appears no extension has been issued yet; unless you just missed it?

[Liquorice]

lopburi3, on 23 Jan 2015 - 11:07, said:

QuoteBut his extension is stamped with his permitted stay up to 28/1/15

Is this a typo? You do understand that date is next week - obviously not a one year extension - but a 90 day stay based on the non immigrant O entry marked used. Appears no extension has been issued yet; unless you just missed it?

Sorry it is a typo, thanks for pointing that out.

His extension is stamped 'Permitted stay up until 28/1/16'.

[paz]

Sorry it is a typo, thanks for pointing that out.

His extension is stamped 'Permitted stay up until 28/1/16'.

That is correct. Extensions are added to the end of current permitted stay.

[Liquorice]

ubonjoe, on 23 Jan 2015 - 09:51, said:

They always start an extension from the date the 90 day entry ends so nothing unusual there.

Did he show immigration the receipts for the T28 and TM38 he submitted before when he tried to do the 90 day report to prove he is living within Amnat's area of responsibility? If not that is the problem. They may of been thinking he had not moved and was just traveling around Thailand trying to do his report there.

They could well be smelling a rat also. I hope he does not have fake stamps.

Immigration has made moves to stop those shady under the table visas/extensions of stay.

He has a few days to get it sorted. He can do his report 7 days late (including the report date) and not be fined 2000 baht.

Hi Joe, Totally agree the extension starts from the date the 90 day entry ends, but in cases I've seen before when everything has been completed in one hit, i.e. Non Imm O Visa and extension, the Non Imm O becomes invalid as soon as the extension is issued, hence the 'USED' stamp on the Non Imm O.

The extension is from the date of application, the Non Imm O and any subsequent remaining time on it then becomes invalid.

In my friends case his extension was issued on 29/10/14 but says 'Permitted to Stay until 28/1/16.

They've added the 90 days of his Non Imm O onto his extension from the looks of it, even though that became 'USED' one day after it was issued.

No, he had Amnats receipt of his TM28 on him and his address is not the problem. They remember him going in to do the address change.

They just won't say what the problem is other than repeating 'Get in touch with Bangkok Immigration'

His partner was also present but even through interpretation she doesn't understand what the problem is.

The agents who handled it are a well known legal firm, who short of printing their name, are let's say well known to TV members.

Four letters beginning with 'S'

He had to transfer funds on the day as proof before they proceeded with the Visa and the Extension, but, and this always amazes me, the Extension was issued without the rule of the 60 day seasoning period. Something that Amnat appear to be questioning. However this happens all the time using agents, laws are flowted and backhanders do the talking.

I've actually just spoken to him on the phone. This morning he has spoken to the 'agent' and Amnat Immigration.

Firstly call the 'agent' said what is Amnats problem, they shouldn't have a problem. Second call to Amant who apparently stated "before, not a problem. now Army in charge, problem" without defining what the problem actually is.

It now sounds more like they are questioning the issuing of the 'extension' without the requirement to season the funds for 2 months.

He is now waiting for the agent to contact Amnat to find out what the problem is.

Could we be seeing the end of corruption by some Immigration officials?

[steve187]

50,000 baht for 7,000 bahts worth of immigration stamps, and still a problem

is there any immigration receipts?

Edited January 23, 2015 by steve187

[Lite Beer]

Sounds like has paid a fortune for dodgy extension stamps.

[Liquorice]

paz, on 23 Jan 2015 - 12:07, said:

Faz, on 23 Jan 2015 - 11:54, said:

Sorry it is a typo, thanks for pointing that out.

His extension is stamped 'Permitted stay up until 28/1/16'.

That is correct. Extensions are added to the end of current permitted stay.

Normally an extension would start at the end of permitted stay because you apply for an extension at the end of initial permitted stay.

All extensions I've seen are issued on the date of application and any remaining time on the initial permitted stay are null and void.

A 'USED' stamp is put across the original permitted stay when they issue an extension.

My own experience, a 90 day Non Imm O Visa. I went to Amnat 14 days before it's expiry. My extension was dated from the date of application, not from the date of expiry of the Non Imm O. I questioned it, but was told you can't have both a Visa and extension running at the same time.

The extension replaces the Visa.............'USED'.

Come back on the last day of your Visa, if that's when you want the extension to start, is what I was told.

I've also seen a couple of these all in one hits, same day Non Imm O Visa and extensions issued at Bangkok.

In both cases the Visas and extensions were issued the same day, and a 'USED' stamp across the Visa, but the extension ended exactly 12 months from the date is was issued. not 12 months and 90 days after it was issued.

What is the correct procedure when changing from a Visa to an extension. Should remaining time on the Visa be added to the extension or not. Is it a rule or just the discretion of the Immigration Officer?

[steve187]

all extensions are start dated the day after the visa runs out. once used the visa is no more, the permission to stay date is now paramount, this stamp is then extended, no days are lost with and extension,

I think the problem is the money not being seasoned, go back to bangkok and do the address reports, or by post if possible, next year do the extension legally at immigration office in person.

A used stamp is put on the visa not the the permitted to date.

I think lite beer has it spot on

Edited January 23, 2015 by steve187

[ubonjoe]

I I have seen scans of the stamps done when they do a non immigrant visa and an extension of stay on the same day.

The visa is stamped used. The original entry/permit to stay stamp is cancelled. A new entry/permit to stay stamp is done showing 90 days form the date the visa was done. And a extension of stay stamp dated for 15 months from the date it was done.

[smedly]

looks to me like Bangkok got paid a hefty backhander/fee (or someone did) to waive the seasoning 2 months or in fact maybe no bank letter produced at all, Amnat can see how this was done on their screen and are refusing to have anything to do with it, solution would probably be to do the 90 day report in Bangkok for the next 12 months

50k baht was one hell of a fee no matter how you look at it

also worth noting that if there is an alternative income like a pension the bank seasoning is not required at all and this process should have cost no more than about 5k baht

[smedly]

Sounds like has paid a fortune for dodgy extension stamps.

it's probably all legit except for the seasoning which he paid to have it ignored

[Liquorice]

Update;

My friend has receipts from both the law firm who handled his applications and from Bangkok Immigration for the extension and multi re-entry permit.

He had to go to Bangkok bank to open an account, then do a transfer.

The following day when his funds were deposited, a representative of the legal firm went with my friend to Bangkok Bank and received a letter for Immigration.

[Liquorice]

ubonjoe, on 23 Jan 2015 - 13:41, said:

I I have seen scans of the stamps done when they do a non immigrant visa and an extension of stay on the same day.

The visa is stamped used. The original entry/permit to stay stamp is cancelled. A new entry/permit to stay stamp is done showing 90 days form the date the visa was done. And a extension of stay stamp dated for 15 months from the date it was done.

He has one Non Imm O Visa stamped as used and an extension.

I have also seen exactly what you are talking about Joe. Jontiem seems to be one who does it this way.

I know in my own experience and that of others, that that is not always the case though.

Sometimes the days left on a Non Imm Visa are lost as soon as you apply for the extension.

No rule then, seems to be at the discretion of the IO what expiry dates he issues on the extension.

[Liquorice]

He's spoken with S*** Legal now who tell him everything was completed legally, but suggested if Amnat have a problem with the way it was issued, then he should do his 90 day reports at Bangkok, or cross one of the border points..............

[lopburi3]

A bit over a decade ago it was the case that extensions started on the day ot was approved but that changed to end of current permitted to stay - which is current policy everywhere AFAIK. A single entry visa is always marked used when used - be it on entry or at immigration in the conversion process - but you will have a 90 day stay allowed by that non immigrant visa and any extension should start from the end of that 90 days - those 90 days are needed to allow funds to be in bank the required 60 days prior to first retirement extension of stay.

Something it fishy with the information you provided as funds must be in account here for 60 days prior to any approval of extension - and from what you said this was not the case.

[Liquorice]

lopburi3, on 23 Jan 2015 - 17:15, said:

A bit over a decade ago it was the case that extensions started on the day ot was approved but that changed to end of current permitted to stay - which is current policy everywhere AFAIK. A single entry visa is always marked used when used - be it on entry or at immigration in the conversion process - but you will have a 90 day stay allowed by that non immigrant visa and any extension should start from the end of that 90 days - those 90 days are needed to allow funds to be in bank the required 60 days prior to first retirement extension of stay.

Something it fishy with the information you provided as funds must be in account here for 60 days prior to any approval of extension - and from what you said this was not the case.

I lost 14 days when I did the conversion from Non Imm O to extension of stay. My extension was dated from the date of application, not from the date the Visa expired.

On the first conversion, money only has to be in a Thai bank account for 60 days, that's because it's impossible to enter Thailand, open a bank account and do a transfer of funds and still meet 90 days in a Thai bank. At the most you could only achieve 88 days.

Nothing fishy about the information. The rules say the money must be in a Thai bank account for 60 days but these 'one stop shops' as I call them have the connections to get Visas and extensions issued within days of someone entering Thailand....money talks.

Personally know 2 local expats who used these 'one stop shops' to get Visas and extensions within a week of entry. It's nothing new, these agents make mega bucks from this practice. You or I as an individual couldn't achieve what they do.

I suspect that in the past everyone turned a blind eye to extensions issued without meeting the rules.

Now the Junta is clamping down on Immigration and I can understand Amnats concerns.

They asked about his funds but it's obvious that entering Thailand on a Visa exempt on Oct 15th and getting an extension on Oct 29th isn't a period of 60 days to season funds.

He received a letter from the bank, in Thai, but I seriously doubt the bank could falsify dates.

This practice goes on every day in Thailand, but this the first time I've seen another Immigration office reluctant to deal with an extension issued under dubious circumstances from another Immigration office.

The question is what can my friend do to overcome the problem.

[canarysun]

I smell a rat ! Whoever pays 50,000 Baht for Visa Services must be out of there mind! ( " completely ripped off " ) Why do people pay these huge amounts of money? No wonder there are so many farang living in Thailand complaining how expensive it is!

F.J

[Liquorice]

canarysun, on 23 Jan 2015 - 21:30, said:

I smell a rat ! Whoever pays 50,000 Baht for Visa Services must be out of there mind! ( " completely ripped off " ) Why do people pay these huge amounts of money? No wonder there are so many farang living in Thailand complaining how expensive it is!

F.J

My exact words to him were 'you must be mad'!

Unfortunately some people just can't grasp the procedure, including documentation to attain Visas and extensions, so they pay someone to do their work.

In my friends case the more research he did, the more confused he became.

I offered to take him through the process step by step when he got to Thailand, but in his own words, he panicked.

I think he is somewhat regretting his actions at the moment.

[Liquorice]

Hypothetical question.

The actual due date of my friends reporting is Monday 26/1/15.

He can report up to 14 days before, or 7 days after.

He needs to buy some time to sort out his problem.

If he crosses the border into Lao on 28/1 will this reset his 90 day report date and buy him the time he needs.

[Lite Beer]

The 90 day report will be 90 days after returning.

But he will be fined 2,000 Baht for not reporting on 26th.

[lopburi3]

He will not have reported and be subject to 2,000 baht fine when next making report. You must report at or before 90 days - but you can report up to 7 days late without fine if done in person.

[billphillips]

It's possible to make the 90 day report at any immigration office. Why not try another office nearby and see what transpires.

I have a feeling though that the computer records have been marked along the lines of ... Refer back to issuing office.

Alternately, speaking to the head shed of the local office and parting with some cash may possibly resolve the issue.

These agents are well known for "under the table transactions" with their pet immigration contact. Don't expect any help or sympathy from them. Avoid using them at all costs in the future. It's not difficult or complicated to make the application and get a visa / extension on your own behalf. Actually it's a requirement that the application is made in person, although you can recruit assistance to accompany you.

[Liquorice]

He's going round in circles at the moment.

Although he has a valid extension with receipts of payment from Bangkok, and he has successfully changed his address at Amanat, who are still refusing to do his 90 day report because it appears to be the issuing of his extension by the Bangkok Imm office, without the proof of seasoning his funds, that is the issue.

He can't do the report at Bangkok, he has changed address and is now under Amnat province.

So far, not a lot of help from the legal firm that did his conversions.

Options?

[Liquorice]

billphillips, on 24 Jan 2015 - 09:43, said:

It's possible to make the 90 day report at any immigration office. Why not try another office nearby and see what transpires.

I have a feeling though that the computer records have been marked along the lines of ... Refer back to issuing office.

Alternately, speaking to the head shed of the local office and parting with some cash may possibly resolve the issue.

These agents are well known for "under the table transactions" with their pet immigration contact. Don't expect any help or sympathy from them. Avoid using them at all costs in the future. It's not difficult or complicated to make the application and get a visa / extension on your own behalf. Actually it's a requirement that the application is made in person, although you can recruit assistance to accompany you.

I was under the impression from other topics that you could only do the 90 day reporting at your local Immigration Office where your registered address is.

[Mario2008]

Let him call 1178 (immigration hotline) and tell about his problem. If they agree Amnat is wrong they can contact that office and set them straight.

In case of conversion no need for seasoning.

[Liquorice]

Lite Beer, on 24 Jan 2015 - 09:24, said:

The 90 day report will be 90 days after returning.

But he will be fined 2,000 Baht for not reporting on 26th.

Thank you Lite Beer.

So you would have to be out of Thailand for the full period of the 21 days you could possibly report in order to legally miss not reporting without any fines.

[stevenl]

He hired a legal company to sort out his visa, let the legal company sort this out as well.