Phuket: RPM owner urges govt to relax rules on superyachts

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Phuket: RPM owner urges govt to relax rules on superyachts
Alasdair Forbes


RPM owner Gulu Lalvani (left) is seen pictured here with Phuket Governor, Nisit Jansomwong & Tourism and Sports Minister, Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul.

PHUKET: -- The owner of the Royal Phuket Marina, Gulu Lalvani, has urged the government to make two changes to regulations which, he says, will create a boom in high-end tourism in Phuket.

The two changes are to issue visiting yacht skippers and crew with six-month visas – they currently get 30 days after which they must leave the country – and to open the boat charter industry to all boats, not only Thai-flagged vessels, as is currently the case.

Mr Lalvani said this would allow Phuket to compete for charter business on even terms with neighbouring Malaysia and even classic yachting centres such as the South of France.

He put these ideas to Tourism and Sports Minister Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul when she was in Phuket last week and, he said, they were well received.

“My main point to her was that we have to do whatever we can to get more affluent tourists to come to Phuket. And people with boats are wealthy. But there are certain crazy bits of red tape and rules that stand in the way of improving the boating industry.

“She very quickly caught on and said these rules put people off. People with big boats who want to keep them in the region, when they go abroad they keep them in Langkawi [in Malaysia].

“You have the French Riviera and we should be the Riviera of Asia and eventually overtake the Riviera of Europe because here are a lot more places here to discover by sea. I want owners to bring megayachts here and leave them here.

“But you’ve got to do things: waive those stupid 30-day-visa rules for the crew … and allow owners to charter out their boats, which is currently not allowed [because they are not Thai-registered]. These rules put people off.”

If superyachts and megayachts can be chartered out, he argued, many wealthy people would extend their holidays in Phuket because they could add a week on a superyacht to their stay.

He cited as an example Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, who chartered a boat seven years ago for a holiday that included two weeks in Phuket.

But, Mr Lalvani explained, Mr Gates had to charter the yacht from Singapore. He could not do so in Phuket because no super/megayacht owner wants to go Thai-flagged. He chartered the boat for three weeks, Mr Lalvani said, but spent two weeks in Phuket waters.

He also noted that if anyone wanted a Thai-flagged boat they must not only pay 7 per cent VAT but must also set up a Thai company with 70pc Thai ownership to own the boat.

He denied a report in another publication that he had suggested to Ms Kobkarn that the 7pc VAT be waived. “I know that to change the rules on VAT would be a long struggle. I said, ‘Keep that VAT for those who want a Thai-flagged boat, but make a concession that foreign-flagged boats are allowed to charter.’”

If that concession could be made, he pointed out, the main objection to the VAT would disappear.

“The average owner [of a large yacht] uses it maybe six weeks of the year so it’s lying here for the rest of the time, earning nothing. If people could charter it, there’s fuel bought here, the charterer will come her shopping, and all this adds a lot to the economy.

“That would [also] make it a lot more palatable for the owners to leave their yachts here.” He noted that the rule changes would not bring great benefit to his marina, which cannot take boats of more than 35 metres in length – superyachts are generally defined as being from 24 to 50 metres, while megayachts are greater than that length.

“I’m not looking at the benefits for my marina – it doesn’t matter to me if boats go to another marina – I’m looking at the benefits to Phuket.”

Mr Lalvani’s proposal fits well with the recent announcement that the government wants to see Phuket beome a yachting and cruising hub in Asean.

Last night (January 23) Prime Minister Gen Prayuth Chan-Ocha, in his weekly TV address, announced that talks had been held with the Vietnamese government about making join efforts to promote marine tourism in the region, and that Vietnam had responded positively.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/rpm-owner-urges-govt-to-relax-rules-on-superyachts-50720.php


-- Phuket News 2015-01-25

[hansgruber]

Self serving effort.

It doesn't really benefit anyone but himself, his marina and the rich.

Thai captians and crew will be obsolete as superyacht owners have their own preferred crews and it takes taxes out of government coffers.

[2fishin2]

Actually it makes all the sense in the world. But TIT and nothing that makes sense, makes sense

[DLock]

I think it is well reasoned but I can't see the crew getting a 6-month visa, without that setting a precedent elsewhere...

...can also imagine the Thai registered/owned yachts will complain about boats taking their charters and business, not paying taxes and technically having illegal crew/workers.

Good idea, but this place is so protectionist in it's outlook, I just can't see it happening.

[inzman]

If there is money in it for the decision makers, could stand a chance.

[jaywalker]

Any foreigner trying this will get firebombed if not worse.

The current protectionist rules protect foreigners as much as Thais.

[gerry1011]

More super yachts (24 to 50m) is better for the economy.

What does a foreign yacht, staying in Phuket for 6 months, bring to the economy?

- Fees paid to the (Thai) marinas (about 50,000b a month for berth charges alone for 24m).

- Fuel bought from the (Thai) marinas.

- High net worth owners and families spending during their holidays (in Thailand).

- Highly paid foreign or local (Thai) crews spending on their own. Even a local (Thai) captain makes more than most farangs.

- Dry stands, (Thai) local maintenance companies and (Thai) staff get more customers.

- (Thai) Transportation companies (luxury and normal ones) get more customers.

- High end beach clubs and restaurants benefit from more high net worth visitors.

- Local agents can make additional profits with the super yachts that can be chartered.

- Local catering services get more business.

- With many nice yachts, the Andaman sea (and Phuket in particular) gets a better reputation among high net worth yacht owners.

- New marinas will soon develop.

- Yacht brokers will make better business... recruiting of new staff will follow.

- I guess there must be more than that... Rich yacht owners can certainly bring something positive to the (Thai) economy.

Edited January 25, 2015 by gerry1011

[NamKangMan]

More super yachts (24 to 50m) is better for the economy.

What does a foreign yacht, staying in Phuket for 6 months, bring to the economy?

- Fees paid to the (Thai) marinas (about 50,000b a month for berth charges alone for 24m).

- Fuel bought from the (Thai) marinas.

- High net worth owners and families spending during their holidays (in Thailand).

- Highly paid foreign or local (Thai) crews spending on their own. Even a local (Thai) captain makes more than most farangs.

- Dry stands, (Thai) local maintenance companies and (Thai) staff get more customers.

- (Thai) Transportation companies (luxury and normal ones) get more customers.

- High end beach clubs and restaurants benefit from more high net worth visitors.

- Local agents can make additional profits with the super yachts that can be chartered.

- Local catering services get more business.

- With many nice yachts, the Andaman sea (and Phuket in particular) gets a better reputation among high net worth yacht owners.

- New marinas will soon develop.

- Yacht brokers will make better business... recruiting of new staff will follow.

- I guess there must be more than that... Rich yacht owners can certainly bring something positive to the (Thai) economy.

Yes, but to gain all the things you mention in your post, the Thai officials would have to grant some concessions to foreigners, but Thailand, and in particular, Phuket, is all about taking from foreigners, not giving to them, thus, they lose business, just to spite themselves.

Edited January 25, 2015 by NamKangMan

[IamNoone88]

Relaxing property ownerships laws would bring significantly more to the economy than just a few super yacht owners on a passing excursion.

[gerry1011]

More super yachts (24 to 50m) is better for the economy.

What does a foreign yacht, staying in Phuket for 6 months, bring to the economy?

- Fees paid to the (Thai) marinas (about 50,000b a month for berth charges alone for 24m).

- Fuel bought from the (Thai) marinas.

- High net worth owners and families spending during their holidays (in Thailand).

- Highly paid foreign or local (Thai) crews spending on their own. Even a local (Thai) captain makes more than most farangs.

- Dry stands, (Thai) local maintenance companies and (Thai) staff get more customers.

- (Thai) Transportation companies (luxury and normal ones) get more customers.

- High end beach clubs and restaurants benefit from more high net worth visitors.

- Local agents can make additional profits with the super yachts that can be chartered.

- Local catering services get more business.

- With many nice yachts, the Andaman sea (and Phuket in particular) gets a better reputation among high net worth yacht owners.

- New marinas will soon develop.

- Yacht brokers will make better business... recruiting of new staff will follow.

- I guess there must be more than that... Rich yacht owners can certainly bring something positive to the (Thai) economy.

Yes, but to gain all the things you mention in your post, the Thai officials would have to grant some concessions to foreigners, but Thailand, and in particular, Phuket, is all about taking from foreigners, not giving to them, thus, they lose business, just to spite themselves.

I can't say that you are totally wrong.

But, all in all, it is already not "that bad" to base a yacht in Phuket at the moment.

Foreign yachts can, in reality, stay in Phuket more than 6 months, by extending the permit for another 6 months. And after one year (or more in case of repair), the yacht can just make a short trip to Langkawi and come back.

The problem may be only with the crew, if the owner has a foreign crew.

Foreign "smaller" super yachts (say up to 30m) can be crewed by Thai crews. They are experienced enough and perfectly know the waters. No need for a foreign crew if the yacht is based in Phuket.

But it is indeed a bit of a problem for bigger yachts who have highly qualified Filipino or western crews... Then the visa thing is not ideal. It would be better to have the crew receive the same length as the yacht itself. Not that difficult I guess.

But if they give to pleasure yachts... Maybe the cargo ships will ask the same...

For chartering the super yachts when not in use by the owners, it is indeed also a bit of a problem.

But, while most mega yachts (above 50m) are available for charter, I would say that most "smaller" super yachts are only used by the owners. So the problem is not the same.

Personally, I think that if Phuket wants to attract more big yachts to be based here, the problem is more in the infrastructures.

Phuket (Krabi, Phang Gna,...) need more marinas, more upscale services related to yachting, more maintenance facilities, more beach clubs (now that the army eradicated some), more tolerance for private jets at the airport (they focus on the airlines), etc...

Mr Gulu is right when he says that he has nothing to gain from more super and mega yachts.

His marina is not only full, but it is also not accessible to large yachts.

Both Boat Lagoon and Royal Phuket marinas are tidal, and not at all convenient for big yachts.

Only Ao Po and Yacht Heaven can accommodate bigger and big yachts in "comfort"...

Edited January 25, 2015 by gerry1011

[bluebluewater]

It's a reasoned argument and if the guy who owns the marina makes some more money because of it I certainly won't be bothered. There are lots of other situations in Thailand where reason should be brought to bear for the long term benefit of everyone - visas, fees, etc.

However, like others here, I don't see it coming to pass. Makes too much sense!

[poweratradio]

Actually it makes all the sense in the world. But TIT and nothing that makes sense, makes sense

Yes indeed... Apparently RPM owner Gulu Lalvani forgot about the rich foreign private jets being refused landing rights over Christmas at the airport. Dream on Captain

[poweratradio]

More super yachts (24 to 50m) is better for the economy.

What does a foreign yacht, staying in Phuket for 6 months, bring to the economy?

- Fees paid to the (Thai) marinas (about 50,000b a month for berth charges alone for 24m).

- Fuel bought from the (Thai) marinas.

- High net worth owners and families spending during their holidays (in Thailand).

- Highly paid foreign or local (Thai) crews spending on their own. Even a local (Thai) captain makes more than most farangs.

- Dry stands, (Thai) local maintenance companies and (Thai) staff get more customers.

- (Thai) Transportation companies (luxury and normal ones) get more customers.

- High end beach clubs and restaurants benefit from more high net worth visitors.

- Local agents can make additional profits with the super yachts that can be chartered.

- Local catering services get more business.

- With many nice yachts, the Andaman sea (and Phuket in particular) gets a better reputation among high net worth yacht owners.

- New marinas will soon develop.

- Yacht brokers will make better business... recruiting of new staff will follow.

- I guess there must be more than that... Rich yacht owners can certainly bring something positive to the (Thai) economy.

Be that as it may happen if the yachts in the quantities you imagine come but most have skeleton crews when the owners park them for all but their 6 weeks of use a year. Charter them in their off times forget it without a Thai flag. Oh the work visa and VAT too. This door may open a crack and get slammed shut again just as quick as the Phuket airport did to the rich and famous private jets over Christmas. This message reverberated through the jet set aviation community and is now regarded as; you better check first before you go in the last few hours before departure.

[2fishin2]

I love to read posts from jealous adults....

[Oziex1]

Does anyone really care about super yachts and their owner's. There's a hundred issues to sort, to improve and promote Phuket/Thailand before we need to bother with this one.

I do understand the logic and principal of it though.

[wabothai]

madame Popcorn all of a sudden has ears for a farang who wants to start a "St. Tropez" in Pukhet.

If I would be a big yacht owner i would not stall my yacht in a place where tsunami disaster is possible reality.

It would be nice though, all these terraces at the harbor with all their delicious seafood dishes with crispy baquettes, cool glasses of white wine, and parading wannabe go for the money ladies.

Go for it Popcorn !!! You will be my heroin.

(God, do I miss that !!)

[gyrosman]

My main point to her was that we have to do whatever we can to get more affluent tourists to come to Phuket. And people with boats are wealthy. But there are certain crazy bits of red tape and rules that stand in the way of improving the boating industry. Thai news.

So dumb ass average tourist who own industry but not a boat get special attention beyond 30 days. Excuse me, I fly in 30 days, retirement check-in and these get a free pass. Put these 2 in jail Thailand.

Learn about maritime law , beach 12 mile miles out and use your speed boats to port or pay the fees.

Arrest these 2 idoits.

[hansgruber]

I love to read posts from jealous adults....

Jealous of what?

Someone trying to sway new laws for financial gain for a very select few?

[wowfactor10]

Gulu sorry i do not think they will listen...They very frightened here for foreigners stealing jobs of locals jadajadajada...(Crackdowns is the answer)

This Phuket marina of yours when are you going to finish this endless project?.When u start with the next fase?

[wowfactor10]

For all i have heard it seems most of the condo owners in the Phuket marina of Gulu have legally teamed up against him in order to start a big battle in court.

The list of their complaints / unhappiness against this developer are several.One of the most important reasons for their unhappiness is that he never finished his nicely presented master plan so Gulu committed breach of contract and should pay out damages to everyone he sold condos to.His way of doing business is clearly against how its states in the Thai condominium act.

Pay back time Gulu !

[gerry1011]

I love to read posts from jealous adults....

Jealous of what?

Someone trying to sway new laws for financial gain for a very select few?

Now that the beaches have been cleared of all their umbrellas, and taxis have been reorganized in order to satisfy the average tourist, why not take care a little bit of the rich ones?

Everybody has something to bring to the local economy.

Yachts and yachters bring lots of cash in Phuket...

Edited January 26, 2015 by gerry1011

[hansgruber]

I love to read posts from jealous adults....

Jealous of what?

Someone trying to sway new laws for financial gain for a very select few?

Now that the beaches have been cleared of all their umbrellas, and taxis have been reorganized in order to satisfy the average tourist, why not take care a little bit of the rich ones?

Everybody has something to bring to the local economy.

Yachts and yachters bring lots of cash in Phuket...

Who makes that cash they bring?

Not locals that's for sure.

As a yacht broker i understand why you're all for it.

[gerry1011]

I love to read posts from jealous adults....

Jealous of what?

Someone trying to sway new laws for financial gain for a very select few?

Now that the beaches have been cleared of all their umbrellas, and taxis have been reorganized in order to satisfy the average tourist, why not take care a little bit of the rich ones?

Everybody has something to bring to the local economy.

Yachts and yachters bring lots of cash in Phuket...

Who makes that cash they bring?

Not locals that's for sure.

As a yacht broker i understand why you're all for it.

As a yacht owner, my cash goes to the (locally owned) marinas, I eat at (locally owned) restaurants, I maintain the yacht with (locally owned) businesses, I buy spare parts from (locally owned) distributors, my guests use (locally owned) transportation and spend at (locally owned) shops, ... All brokers certainly know the high value of super yachts, their owners and guests.

On top of that, even if brokers who charter the yachts are not locally owned (As Simpson Marine, for example), they give lots of jobs to local staff.

The foreign captain of a super yacht will spend in local businesses... Etc, etc, etc...

It's common sense to promote yachting on an island such as Phuket, rather than promote its guest houses.

But, of course, there must be something for every style...

[gerry1011]

I love to read posts from jealous adults....

Jealous of what?

Someone trying to sway new laws for financial gain for a very select few?

Now that the beaches have been cleared of all their umbrellas, and taxis have been reorganized in order to satisfy the average tourist, why not take care a little bit of the rich ones?

Everybody has something to bring to the local economy.

Yachts and yachters bring lots of cash in Phuket...

Who makes that cash they bring?

Not locals that's for sure.

As a yacht broker i understand why you're all for it.

As a yacht owner, my cash goes to the (locally owned) marinas, I eat at (locally owned) restaurants, I maintain the yacht with (locally owned) businesses, I buy spare parts from (locally owned) distributors, my guests use (locally owned) transportation and spend at (locally owned) shops, ... All brokers certainly know the high value of super yachts, their owners and guests.

On top of that, even if brokers who charter the yachts are not locally owned (As Simpson Marine, for example), they give lots of jobs to local staff.

The foreign captain of a super yacht will spend in local businesses... Etc, etc, etc...

It's common sense to promote yachting on an island such as Phuket, rather than promote its guest houses.

But, of course, there must be something for every style and all types of tourism should be welcome...

[Oziex1]

Some posters defending the needs of their yachting lifestyle are missing the point here.

The OP is about Super Yachts (Huge very expensive vessels) and for me the issue is of course the request to give visa privileges to the super rich on their super yachts,

I don't believe it's going to happen however any changes to visa requirements in Thailand should be across the board. Not just for a privileged few.

And we all know where the big money ends up in Phuket!

[gerry1011]

Some posters defending the needs of their yachting lifestyle are missing the point here.

The OP is about Super Yachts (Huge very expensive vessels) and for me the issue is of course the request to give visa privileges to the super rich on their super yachts,

I don't believe it's going to happen however any changes to visa requirements in Thailand should be across the board. Not just for a privileged few.

And we all know where the big money ends up in Phuket!

Super yachts are yachts 24 to 50 meters.

There are many 24 to 35 meters already kept in Phuket on a permanent basis. Most of these yachts are registered abroad.

Mega yachts are like the one on this picture (taken in Ao Po).

Everybody his opinion, but personally, I also think that Phuket should welcome these types of yachts and try to make them stay.

Visa issues for the crew are important indeed, if Phuket wants these yachts to stay longer, or be based at one of the two marinas that can accommodate them (Ao Po and Yacht Heaven).

[gerry1011]

Forgot the picture

Nice little boat

Even the small one on the right (foreign flag but based in Phuket) is nice. It was on show at the Pimex (and offered for 430,000,000b).

[hansgruber]

Forgot the picture

Nice little boat

Even the small one on the right (foreign flag but based in Phuket) is nice. It was on show at the Pimex (and offered for 430,000,000b).

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1422238103.066817.jpg

Yes I'm sure that owner is eating at local thai restaurants and has thai crew. Only people making money from him is the marina and some stevedoring company.

His money wouldn't trickle past the marinas gates.

[gerry1011]

Forgot the picture

Nice little boat

Even the small one on the right (foreign flag but based in Phuket) is nice. It was on show at the Pimex (and offered for 430,000,000b).

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1422238103.066817.jpg

Yes I'm sure that owner is eating at local thai restaurants and has thai crew. Only people making money from him is the marina and some stevedoring company.

His money wouldn't trickle past the marinas gates.

Maybe you are right.

After all, all those useless businesses selling yachts, expensive watches, super cars, vintage cognacs, cigars, exclusive services, caviar and high end food, pearls and jewels, ... or even Otop bags to the riches, do not add anything to the economy.

So why go after the riches and their super (or mega) yachts. No need, indeed.

Let's concentrate on beach umbrellas and, when it comes to yachting, only the minuscule old rotten 30ft sail boats, whose owners eat noodles everyday.

For the view, I think I still prefer the super yachts though...

After all, whatever... It will not change my own life

Edited January 26, 2015 by gerry1011