Thailand's "gay-friendly" image is superficial ...

[alex88]

Yeah but the same can be said for Any country. All countries have oppressive minorities. No country is completely open/tolerant/equal. I'm pretty sure such a society would be impossible. The funny thing is that seriously homophobic places such as Uganda have been influenced by heavy propaganda from American Christian fundamentalist organisations. Some irony in that.

[alex88]

And yeah I don't have so much admiration for the Thai Chinese as a culture, I try to stay away from them. Thais aren't real keen on them either.

[Jingthing]

I agree with that but I don't think Thai Chinese culture here is a small thing. Arguably, it is dominant especially among the higher classes here.

[alex88]

I don't like higher classes anywhere. I think I would agree in the sense that Thai Chinese culture dominates the economy and politics, dominates Bangkok. And that Chinese Thais hold a very large proportion of the positions of power in Thai society and therefore create a relatively oppressive environment.

Edited April 23, 2015 by alex88

[alex88]

It's kind of universal that the people in the more privileged parts of society and the people with the power in society are not those who contribute to a more pleasant society

[Jingthing]

As this is about Thais I would be concerned about what's happening among the Thai Chinese (and others). I'm sure we're not getting the full story. Not getting beat up is great, but there is more to living a happy life than that.

[onthemoon]

After 9 years I have never met a Thai person who ever had any problems with their family for being gay (apart from some Bangkok Chinese families). Whereas back in Australia a majority of gay people have either been rejected and expelled from their families or at least had issues in the beginning. I know ladyboys and lesbians can have extra challenges but I am just referring to gay males here. The only issues I have heard are some families where dating a farang is taboo, but being gay isn't the issue.

That is my experience too: Being a farang is way worse than being gay. Or for Thais, having a farang partner vs. having a same-sex partner.

[Michael8511]

I don't understand where you live, have visited Thailand for 20 years and have to say this is one of the gay, lesbian and transgender friendly country in the world. You have Tom Boys, Lady Boys working openly in most 7/11 and big C etc and they are treated with respect. You can go anywhere in Thailand with your gay partner and are always accepted and treated with respect. The problem here in Jomtien for example is that a lot of Russians or Iranians do not accept gays and make comments, except when they dine at 7/11

[Jingthing]

The topic really is about the experience of THAI nationals, not foreigners.

Again, more evidence that Thailand isn't nearly the "gay paradise" that so many foreigners imagine.

http://prachatai.org/english/node/5065

LGBT activists shatter myth of LGBT-friendly Thailand

Submitted by editor2 on Fri, 15/05/2015 - 12:36

LGBT activists from all walks of life point out that discrimination against LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender) is still prevalent in Thailand although the Asian country promotes itself as a paradise for all sexual orientations, gender identities and expressions (SOGIE).

[Keesters]

It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais.

And neither should they. For rights to be "equal" all that needs to be said is that all "people" are equal. No mention of gay, third sex etc required unless you mention the hetro as well. Only then is everybody equal. Gays always come up with this "we just want to be equal" and then ask for something not equal to legitimize it.

[Jingthing]

It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais.

And neither should they. For rights to be "equal" all that needs to be said is that all "people" are equal. No mention of gay, third sex etc required unless you mention the hetro as well. Only then is everybody equal. Gays always come up with this "we just want to be equal" and then ask for something not equal to legitimize it.

You're not fooling anyone on THIS forum.

That's one one of the most typical tactics of people who are clearly against civil rights for LGBTQ people.

[Keesters]

It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais.

And neither should they. For rights to be "equal" all that needs to be said is that all "people" are equal. No mention of gay, third sex etc required unless you mention the hetro as well. Only then is everybody equal. Gays always come up with this "we just want to be equal" and then ask for something not equal to legitimize it.

You're not fooling anyone on THIS forum.

That's one one of the most typical tactics of people who are clearly against civil rights for LGBTQ people.

I'm all for equal rights for EVERYBODY not just LBGT people. And as soon as the LGBT community stop asking for rights for themselves and start asking for total equal rights everywhere they might just get people to listen. Your argument is typical tactics of LGBT people against all people having equal rights as long as they get them.

[BKKBobby]

On a national level I have no idea but here in Bangkok I see that gays and ladyboys can get good jobs. All my gay friends and a ladyboy I know have good jobs, worth noting is that all of them have university degrees.

Thailand is a gay paradise for gay tourists, theres no discussion about that.

Theres no LBTQ civil rights, thats true, as far as I know.

Edited May 23, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Jingthing]

It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais.

And neither should they. For rights to be "equal" all that needs to be said is that all "people" are equal. No mention of gay, third sex etc required unless you mention the hetro as well. Only then is everybody equal. Gays always come up with this "we just want to be equal" and then ask for something not equal to legitimize it.

You're not fooling anyone on THIS forum.

That's one one of the most typical tactics of people who are clearly against civil rights for LGBTQ people.

I'm all for equal rights for EVERYBODY not just LBGT people. And as soon as the LGBT community stop asking for rights for themselves and start asking for total equal rights everywhere they might just get people to listen. Your argument is typical tactics of LGBT people against all people having equal rights as long as they get them.

Of course equal rights for all.

DUH. Double DUH.

That's implied snookums.

Assuming you're straight, have you been denied marriage rights?

I didn't think so.

I know the game you're playing.

It's garbage. Suggesting gay rights activists are seeking "special" rights. That's a game anti-gay rights people play and it is a big old lie.

[sanuk711]

I know where your coming from Jingthing........I'm the only Gay in the village..................

Edited May 23, 2015 by sanuk711

[sanuk711]

But seriously Jingthing...... I did read the article & what does stand out is that there are no numbers.............unless I need spec savers.....

You can not have a creditable survey without stating the numbers.....70% of people in P.I seem to think it is OK..........70% of what....10 people.

56 per cent think homosexuality is wrong, .....56% of what...the 20 guys they asked in a girly Go-Go bar........

To print a survey without stating the numbers, means it is just either VERY bad reporting.......or just .......BS............

[onthemoon]

It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais.

And neither should they. For rights to be "equal" all that needs to be said is that all "people" are equal. No mention of gay, third sex etc required unless you mention the hetro as well. Only then is everybody equal. Gays always come up with this "we just want to be equal" and then ask for something not equal to legitimize it.

I agree with you, partially. That's all we want: Equal treatment, not special privileges.

However, laws now for example say that a marriage is between man and woman. It should say marriage is between two people. It doesn't. And that's what we want.

Anti-gay campaigners (especially in the US) often say that gays want special rights, or take away the sanctity of the family. That is not true. We have no interested in taking anything away from heterosexuals. We don't want any special rights either; we just want equality.

I am speaking for myself here.

[Scott]

Agreed, and it was pretty much the heteros and their huge divorce rate that screwed the pooch on the 'sanctity' of marriage argument.

[DeaconJohn]

Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ?

Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment.

Special rights for minorities is a vexed question.

Any talk about "equality" is nonsense.

It usually comes down to the fact that they don't want a hat like yours... they want your hat.

[onthemoon]

Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ?

Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment.

Special rights for minorities is a vexed question.

Any talk about "equality" is nonsense.

It usually comes down to the fact that they don't want a hat like yours... they want your hat.

I am not sure I follow your logic. The special rights are now for the majority: It says marriage is between man and woman. Equality would be if the law said, marriage is between two consenting adults. What is nonsense about this?

And whose hat would that be? Nobody wants any special rights for same-sex couples. Nobody takes any hat away from any heterosexual couple. What are you afraid of?

[Keesters]

It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais.

And neither should they. For rights to be "equal" all that needs to be said is that all "people" are equal. No mention of gay, third sex etc required unless you mention the hetro as well. Only then is everybody equal. Gays always come up with this "we just want to be equal" and then ask for something not equal to legitimize it.

You're not fooling anyone on THIS forum.
That's one one of the most typical tactics of people who are clearly against civil rights for LGBTQ people.

I'm all for equal rights for EVERYBODY not just LBGT people. And as soon as the LGBT community stop asking for rights for themselves and start asking for total equal rights everywhere they might just get people to listen. Your argument is typical tactics of LGBT people against all people having equal rights as long as they get them.

Of course equal rights for all.
DUH. Double DUH.
That's implied snookums.
Assuming you're straight, have you been denied marriage rights?
I didn't think so.
I know the game you're playing.
It's garbage. Suggesting gay rights activists are seeking "special" rights. That's a game anti-gay rights people play and it is a big old lie.

Harvey-Milk-Meme-06.jpg

I am not suggesting gay seek or are seeking special rights. What I am saying is that no special rights be given to them. There should be no mention of gay, straight, bi, black, Asian, etc, or any other differences in us in any laws. Laws should be applied to ALL irrespective of our differences. As soon as a difference, sexual, color, etc is mentioned that group are being treated as special. I don't know how many more times I shall have to say it to convince you but I am not against gay rights just against those rights being seen as special. So please stop calling me anti-gay you couldn't be more wrong.

[Keesters]

It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais.

And neither should they. For rights to be "equal" all that needs to be said is that all "people" are equal. No mention of gay, third sex etc required unless you mention the hetro as well. Only then is everybody equal. Gays always come up with this "we just want to be equal" and then ask for something not equal to legitimize it.

I agree with you, partially. That's all we want: Equal treatment, not special privileges.

However, laws now for example say that a marriage is between man and woman. It should say marriage is between two people. It doesn't. And that's what we want.

Anti-gay campaigners (especially in the US) often say that gays want special rights, or take away the sanctity of the family. That is not true. We have no interested in taking anything away from heterosexuals. We don't want any special rights either; we just want equality.

I am speaking for myself here.

Correct, marriage between two people. No need to mention gay, their sex or anything like that. Same with all aspects of law. People are people no need to differentiate between them.

[DeaconJohn]

Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ?

Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment.

Special rights for minorities is a vexed question.

Any talk about "equality" is nonsense.

It usually comes down to the fact that they don't want a hat like yours... they want your hat.

I am not sure I follow your logic. The special rights are now for the majority: It says marriage is between man and woman. Equality would be if the law said, marriage is between two consenting adults. What is nonsense about this?

And whose hat would that be? Nobody wants any special rights for same-sex couples. Nobody takes any hat away from any heterosexual couple. What are you afraid of?

I was referring to the importunities and aggravations caused by demanding, obnoxious minorities in a very general sense - not being specific in any way.

Please, don't try to follow anyone's "logic"... we don't live in a logical world.

Basing arguments on meaningless abstractions negates any relevance they may otherwise have.

[onthemoon]

Special rights for minorities is a vexed question.

Any talk about "equality" is nonsense.

It usually comes down to the fact that they don't want a hat like yours... they want your hat.

I am not sure I follow your logic. The special rights are now for the majority: It says marriage is between man and woman. Equality would be if the law said, marriage is between two consenting adults. What is nonsense about this?

And whose hat would that be? Nobody wants any special rights for same-sex couples. Nobody takes any hat away from any heterosexual couple. What are you afraid of?

I was referring to the importunities and aggravations caused by demanding, obnoxious minorities in a very general sense - not being specific in any way.

Please, don't try to follow anyone's "logic"... we don't live in a logical world.

Basing arguments on meaningless abstractions negates any relevance they may otherwise have.

LOL! Did you really write that last sentence? I was going to say exactly that to you...

Note that this is a gay forum, that's rather specific. If you want to say that your arguments have no relevance, your posting does indeed not have any logic. So, what exactly was your point? Or is that irrelevant, you just wanted to write something non-specific on the internet?

[dennis123]

Discrimination, especially of ladyboys, is overly clear in Thailand, maybe not so much in tourist areas but go visit some provinces in the south or north (Isaan), with visiting I don't mean for a day or a few hours and then on to your next tourist attraction, no I talk about living in a small city. I lived for three weeks in Donsak where some ladyboys lived and Thai boys and men hanging out at the 7/11 were always making fun of the ladyboys.

I've spoken with hundreds of gays and I've heard numerous stories about how their families rejected them, sometimes real sad stories where they got kicked away to make money in Pattaya and the like, where there brother got preference to go to school while he had to work in the rice field and numerous other unequal treatments.

It's as joke to think gay is accepted here when you don't know many of them, or if you live in a tourist place.

Personally I never felt discriminated here but neither did I have that in my own country as I don't look gay and because people don't say it in front of your face but instead choose to talk behind your back. Because I don't look gay I can take on the observer role, eg people aren't shy joking with their friends about some gay person that walks by.

There is a lot of discrimination and racism in Thailand, not just against gays, people from Bangkok don't like Isaan people, Thai people look down on Cambodians, most Thai don't seem to like foreigners either. Thais hate Russians, Thais dislike the Chinese and it go's on and on with no end in sight.

[dennis123]

On the contrary, sometimes I feel gays are asking to be discriminated, look at some peoples behaviors, it's so fake and artificial.

Or those gay parades / gay pride stuff, come on, bunch of idiotic dressed queers on boats, trucks whatever, when I see that I feel ashamed to be gay and I never participate in those carnivals, how can you expect to be accepted when you participate in such freak show.

Now look at this image, isn't that just inviting violence? I sure think so:

Edited October 1, 2015 by dennis123

[Jingthing]

On the contrary, sometimes I feel gays are asking to be discriminated, look at some peoples behaviors, it's so fake and artificial.

...

Your post and non-Thai obscene photo have nothing to do with Thailand or the OP.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Jingthing

[dennis123]

On the contrary, sometimes I feel gays are asking to be discriminated, look at some peoples behaviors, it's so fake and artificial.

...

Your post and non-Thai obscene photo have nothing to do with Thailand or the OP.

Yeah I know but the thread evolved to more so from that perspective it is relevant.

[Ace of Pop]

I'm sure Jing the 2 Gay Men who run my local Eatary would side with Him,not You on this issue..

[fang37]

Some of us are - hetero, gay, bi, celibate.

Make a huge issue - why?

What goes on behind closed doors is your business. No need to advertise.

Take some responsibility.

But, I am "special" - look at me - BS!