Setting up a water tank / pump system help needed

[outlaw11wa]

If it can be any help for OP, I have a water tank in my house and use the pressure from the tank only.

I have a fairly small 900 liters tank on the attic, supplied from a well.

On the top-floor the bottom of the water tank is about 3 meter over floor level, i.e. some 4½ meter to the top water level. In average some to meters (2 atm.) water pressure for showerhead and water heater. That is not much, but it works, however not that much water pressure, just enough for the water heater to work and an acceptable shower pressure.

I would think you should need two water tanks, one at ground level for storage, filling up with community/town water (when available), and a small pump to fill up a raised tank. OP talks about 10,000 or 15,000 liters, that is 10 to 15 cubic meters and sounds like an awful lot – the structure shall be able to carry a weight of at least some 16 tons of water plus tank – around 1,500 liters sounds more reasonable. However placing some large storage water tanks direct on the ground, may not cause any structure problem.

You can use a small automatic pressure pump to fill the top-level tank from the ground storage tanks. A simple floating valve at the top tank will do the job and start the pressure pump (I use that for the well pump). However, it may make more sense just to leave water tanks on the ground and use a small pressure water pump for water to the in-house installation, which will also give you a nice water pressure at all times. You can buy a floater-switch (don’t know if I use correct English word), so mains power is only switched on to the pump, when the water level is high enough for the pump to work (running dry will damage the pump). I think the floater switch is fairly affordable, and a small good quality pressure pump can be obtained from around 5,000 baht.

Consider a filter on the town water inlet, so you get clean water into your tank(s) – a small simple ceramic filter will do the job and costs around 1,000 baht, and is easy to clean. You can consider two filters, one at the town water inlet, and another after your pressure pump to make sure you don’t get debris from the tank(s) into your pipes.

To keep the water fresh in the tank you can consider using a simple small aquarium pump to mix air (oxygen) into the water, which is the method used at water plants to clean water and remove bad smell, known as “water steps”. Oxygen will also kill some bacteria in the water.

If you use ground level storage water tank(s), you just let the town water into the storage tank instead of a T-junction, and supply from that via your own pump. However also using a T-junction (controlled with valves) you can use the direct supply from town water in case of pump-problems.

Wish you good luck with your project...

You beat me to it, I am at that point of installing the filters on a system I posted here. I was just unsure of the type of filter to handle mineral content in the ground water? Global home have a great range in Mukdahan but all a bit confusing when specs are in Thai. Do you have a suggestion?

[lockman]

Well I have an "auto pump" (submersible controlled by a pressure switch) about 45 meters down a well that goes through a check valve to a pressure tank, that feeds our house etc. Town water is often unavailable, or if the power is out they have no water, sometimes for weeks if their well goes dry (as it seems to annually). Having the pressure tank (250L) allows water to be stored under pressure, and not having the pump run whenever you open a faucet, flush a toilet, etc; and if the power is out, a supply is still available. Same as we used on farms elsewhere.

[khunPer]

You beat me to it, I am at that point of installing the filters on a system I posted here. I was just unsure of the type of filter to handle mineral content in the ground water? Global home have a great range in Mukdahan but all a bit confusing when specs are in Thai. Do you have a suggestion?

Suggestions...?

– I can tell what I have done, using a well that produce fairly ”red” water (ocher, iron) being close to beach. It took some experiments, and dirty water system, before I ended up with the system described below – now I have acceptable nice clean water.

From well through 3 filter-steps and into a storage tank.

1) I use a small filter after the pump (pictured in previous post), initially intended as a 10 micron, but that was not enough, so tried 5 micron fiber filer, and ended up with a ceramic filter, that in theory is way too fine, but works very well in practice. I use Muzuma Green Life, OBE 0.3 micron (that should also filter some bacteria). The filter-house is a standard product from a special electric/water material shop; I use clear type so I can see when filter gets dirty and need cleaning. Filter-house costs somewhere around 500-600 baht, a ceramic filter costs around 400 baht and can last long time (more than a year if taken care of).

I always flush a bit water into a bucket when filter is taken out, that cleans any sediment from inside pipes (open the bypass valve, so water cleans both inlet and outlet pipes).

2) I use a pressure tank filled with sand. Originally I was suggested active coal and it was filled with that during installation by the supplier, but that just made the water more and more dirty and bad smelling. Reading a bit on the Internet about water treatment I changed to sand, just the normal sand used for cleaning swimming pools, and that works very well. Need to backwash once a month or every second month only. I have a steel pressure tank, but you can get fine fiberglass tanks for the job (almost similar to the ones for cleaning a pool, but smaller foot print) – when I one day need to change, that will be for smaller fiberglass tanks. My steel pressure tank was quite expensive (20,900 baht), believe the fiberglass pressure tanks are little cheaper – try to look at Australian brand named Waterco (Zero Plus), waterco.com, they are sold in Thailand by PAT; but there may be several other similar brands available.

3) After the sand filter I again use a small ceramic filter that also is my visual check of water quality, and that shall never get dirty (cleaned once a year), and if it does, there is something wrong.

I use a storage tank at attic, and to keep the water in clean and fresh condition I use a small submersible pump (some 50W and a timer to control the work-time), a small ceramic filter (same as above), and an UV lamp. Furthermore I have a little aquarium pump mixing air into the tank.

A trick to clean filters and water system is hydrogen peroxide – the so-called “36% food grade”, which you can buy in 1 liter bottles at pharmacies (about 200-250 baht). Be aware, undiluted it’s very corrosive on skin. After cleaning a ceramic filter and placing it back in the filter-house, I add a bit (perhaps 3 cl.) of hydrogen peroxide over the filter and remount the container; it may bubble a bit and that just mean it’s working. When mixed with water it will oxidize and clean the water – in small dilutions hydrogen peroxide is harmless, if not healthy. Many water works today use hydrogen peroxide instead of pumping air into the water – or cleaning with chlorine – in some areas (states in US) by Law.

In you need to clean whole water system (pipes) you can add a bottle (or several) into well and/or water tank, and open water taps a while, close them and keep closed for an hour, then flush the system. The original advice says: place a piece of raw meat in the basin, run the water over the meat, and when the meat begin to bubble close the tap and let the hydrogen peroxide work inside the system for half a day; then flush clean.

Hope this can help you…

[sometimewoodworker]

just an additional note: The people who pay 150,000 - 200,000 baht for a bore are to "uneducated" to know that they have been scammed

many foreigners of course pay this and have no idea they were scammed or have so much money that they don't care.

I had 2 bores and pumps in Yasothon and paid only 10,000b for each. If you know what you want and know the cost locally you won't be paying what the other idiots "uneducated" have paid.

Shop around for the going rate....I doubt you will pay more the 20k.

Sorry you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You were lucky in where you live.

The depth you need to go to get water depends on where you are. The cost of getting the water supply you need depends on the depth of the aquifer in your area and what you have to drill through to get to it. Some people need to go down over 400metres much of that through solid rock. Others like you have a supply at a shallow level prices can easily vary between ฿5000 and ฿300,000 plus with no scamming.

Sure people get scammed by water drillers but a high price doesn't equal a scam.

FWIW our area the cost is ฿20,000 for a bore producing a good water flow, no water no fee, plus a pump. The usual depth is around 40 to 50 metres. They will often take 3 days per hole and may need to drill 2 or three to get water.

[lockman]

If it can be any help for OP, I have a water tank in my house and use the pressure from the tank only.

I have a fairly small 900 liters tank on the attic, supplied from a well.

On the top-floor the bottom of the water tank is about 3 meter over floor level, i.e. some 4½ meter to the top water level. In average some to meters (2 atm.) water pressure for showerhead and water heater. That is not much, but it works, however not that much water pressure, just enough for the water heater to work and an acceptable shower pressure.

I would think you should need two water tanks, one at ground level for storage, filling up with community/town water (when available), and a small pump to fill up a raised tank. OP talks about 10,000 or 15,000 liters, that is 10 to 15 cubic meters and sounds like an awful lot – the structure shall be able to carry a weight of at least some 16 tons of water plus tank – around 1,500 liters sounds more reasonable. However placing some large storage water tanks direct on the ground, may not cause any structure problem.

You can use a small automatic pressure pump to fill the top-level tank from the ground storage tanks. A simple floating valve at the top tank will do the job and start the pressure pump (I use that for the well pump). However, it may make more sense just to leave water tanks on the ground and use a small pressure water pump for water to the in-house installation, which will also give you a nice water pressure at all times. You can buy a floater-switch (don’t know if I use correct English word), so mains power is only switched on to the pump, when the water level is high enough for the pump to work (running dry will damage the pump). I think the floater switch is fairly affordable, and a small good quality pressure pump can be obtained from around 5,000 baht.

Consider a filter on the town water inlet, so you get clean water into your tank(s) – a small simple ceramic filter will do the job and costs around 1,000 baht, and is easy to clean. You can consider two filters, one at the town water inlet, and another after your pressure pump to make sure you don’t get debris from the tank(s) into your pipes.

To keep the water fresh in the tank you can consider using a simple small aquarium pump to mix air (oxygen) into the water, which is the method used at water plants to clean water and remove bad smell, known as “water steps”. Oxygen will also kill some bacteria in the water.

If you use ground level storage water tank(s), you just let the town water into the storage tank instead of a T-junction, and supply from that via your own pump. However also using a T-junction (controlled with valves) you can use the direct supply from town water in case of pump-problems.

Wish you good luck with your project...

You beat me to it, I am at that point of installing the filters on a system I posted here. I was just unsure of the type of filter to handle mineral content in the ground water? Global home have a great range in Mukdahan but all a bit confusing when specs are in Thai. Do you have a suggestion?

I have filters from Global in Mukdahan, however mine are inline off the pressure tank into the house. I'll send you a PM.

[Leung Falang]

Yeah, I think that was my original diagram from wayyy back, evidently I should have charged royalties

Do not understand why valve to tank is normally open with value to house bypassing tank normally closed as this means the pump normally pumps all the time using electricity, making noise, wearing out pump, and running tank dry. Seems it should be just the opposite with city water flowing to house normally, and tank only opened when city water is low or stopped. My neighbors are close here in town and neither them or I would like to hear the pump all the time.

[lopburi3]

Then get a more silent pump? - pumps are used to increase water pressure so must be used full time to do that - but some

will have a pressure tank to hold some reserve (and that can be expanded) so pump is not running all the time for this type system.. Almost no public water system here has good pressure, and that includes Bangkok and other cities. If you do not need higher water pressure then a pump would probably not be required at all.

There is a check valve (or tap) to prevent pumping water back into the public water system/and into your tank again - without pump would never stop. This is not a system to pump only when public water pressure is low nor not available - it is never at desired pressure.

[bankruatsteve]

If your mains supply normally has adequate pressure, go for it. Our main can manage a drip to keep the tank full but that's about it. So, always have the pump to supply pressure for us. If you do normally bypass the tank, be sure it's the kind that doesn't nurture algae etc.

[scooterboy]

Yep, Williewolf had the correct Crossy pic (and it was THIS one I actually used way back then - so I stand corrected).

Weird stuff, as we're building a new house - and a guy turns up unexpectedly, asking for a drawing of how we want the outside pipes installed. So once again I had use for Crossy's pic - plus a few brain cells, of course - to get an understandable drawing made, using red, green and yellow pens to mark pipes, valves and taps.

Great - and thanks again to Crossy!

[wayned]

Yep, Williewolf had the correct Crossy pic (and it was THIS one I actually used way back then - so I stand corrected).

Weird stuff, as we're building a new house - and a guy turns up unexpectedly, asking for a drawing of how we want the outside pipes installed. So once again I had use for Crossy's pic - plus a few brain cells, of course - to get an understandable drawing made, using red, green and yellow pens to mark pipes, valves and taps.

Great - and thanks again to Crossy!

You had better be around when the guy installs your system. Otherwise he might paint the pipes and valves to match the colors on your drawings. You think that I'm kidding, but I'm not.

[scooterboy]

YIKES !!!

.

.

.

[Crossy]

Yeah, I think that was my original diagram from wayyy back, evidently I should have charged royalties

no this was yours crossy, NOTE THE NON-RETURN VALVE!! This is the set up I used . Thank you very much

water pump.jpg

They're actually both mine

[klikster]

This is a diagram posted on TV a while back (can't remember who posted it)...

Tank can be at ground level, underground, (or raised, if city pressure is sufficient).

200W-300W pump should give plenty of flow for showers etc.

I set up our system like this, but would recommend really checking out the check-valve. Ours failed after about 3 months and was pumping in a loop. The very nice looking bronze body check valve had a tiny carbon steel pin holding the disk. It rusted and broke.

Edited February 2, 2015 by klikster

[Dumbastheycome]

Not sure if you are still reading this but... a solution to the "hard " water is to fit an ion exchange resin filter into the system. It is less important for general water usage with exception to the shower unit if you want a quality water. I use a resin filter only instead of a combination carbon/ resin filter. That is because the resin onl filter can be recharged by flushing it with salt water ( I always use un iodised). It is less efficient in removing hard metals than the carbon or carbon/ resin combo but it does reduce the hardness. I have fitted this to only our shower supply to reduce total throughput because the resin has a limit to effectiveness in relation to liters passed through it. And as a result shampoo works without leaving the Phylis Diller effect !

And laundry detergents seem to work better here with hard water. Other than that, water is water so long as it is not infectiously contaminated.

[JaiLai]

if hes going to start putting inline pumps in he might as well go the whole hog and have a bore hole drilled, and an auto pump,

we have this for the house and like many i dont have a tank at all, just the bore hole with the pump on top conected to the house, been like that for years no problems,

after all thats what auto pumps are for, i can never understand why some have big water towers as well as auto pumps,? i could be wrong but like i say our as been like this for years and no trouble,

its about 5k to drill the bore hole and another 5, or 6 for the pump

5K is incredibly cheap for a bore hole, i paid a lot more that that but it's 105M deep and the formation was tough going.

Only flaw with having your sub pump feeding house directly is if the pump goes down you've not storage for daily needs, domestic or for live stock ( in your case ).

I have a sub pump that feeds 1 x 1000ltr tank & 1 x 2000ltr tank. I water the garden veggies directly from deep well.

I also keep a back up pump ( surface ) just incase one goes down.

[Kenny202]

Took the plunge today and bought a 1000L tank and a Hitachi 150W auto pump. Installed it all this afternoon. I don't have anything connected to the incoming side as our local moo ban provides a tank fill service monthly as our water is so bad.

I'll try and describe what I have done and would appreciate any advice if wrong.

Mains supply meter / non return valve / shower toilet kitchen outlets / non return valve / pump / tank

Our main supply comes in from the front of the home from the meter and runs around the back of the house to shower, toilet, kitchen. It wasn't practical for me to mount the tank / pump out the front so I have opted to introduce the tank water via the pump from the tail end of the line. So have the mains coming in the front and the tank water coming in the end of the line. I have a non return valve on the front water supply after the meter so my tank doesn't pump back into the town supply and also have a non return valve just after my pump so if using mains water it doesn't come back into my pump / tank. Haven't had the opportunity to try it yet as we haven't filled it yet. I guess what could potentially happen is we have mains water pressure coming in from the front and pump pressure water coming in from the back meeting in the middle so to speak. Could this be a potential problem? It may well be I will turn the main water off altogether as it is so unreliable and dirty but may come good again when the rain comes.

Other thing is

does anyone know if those little Hitachi auto pumps have a cut out if the tank ran dry or do I need a float switch?

Will the 150W size be enough? Our water usage is only for two people, mainly water for washing machine, kitchen and shower.

[IMHO]

Took the plunge today and bought a 1000L tank and a Hitachi 150W auto pump. Installed it all this afternoon. I don't have anything connected to the incoming side as our local moo ban provides a tank fill service monthly as our water is so bad.

I'll try and describe what I have done and would appreciate any advice if wrong.

Mains supply meter / non return valve / shower toilet kitchen outlets / non return valve / pump / tank

Our main supply comes in from the front of the home from the meter and runs around the back of the house to shower, toilet, kitchen. It wasn't practical for me to mount the tank / pump out the front so I have opted to introduce the tank water via the pump from the tail end of the line. So have the mains coming in the front and the tank water coming in the end of the line. I have a non return valve on the front water supply after the meter so my tank doesn't pump back into the town supply and also have a non return valve just after my pump so if using mains water it doesn't come back into my pump / tank. Haven't had the opportunity to try it yet as we haven't filled it yet. I guess what could potentially happen is we have mains water pressure coming in from the front and pump pressure water coming in from the back meeting in the middle so to speak. Could this be a potential problem? It may well be I will turn the main water off altogether as it is so unreliable and dirty but may come good again when the rain comes.

Other thing is

does anyone know if those little Hitachi auto pumps have a cut out if the tank ran dry or do I need a float switch?

Will the 150W size be enough? Our water usage is only for two people, mainly water for washing machine, kitchen and shower.

A few observations:

1,000L won't get you very far - do they only fill once per month or more often? As a rough guide, each person in your house can use 50L/day just for bathing, then plus for things like washing clothes and dishes, watering the garden etc. In a family of 4, it's quite possible to use up to 1000L/day if not economizing usage.

Outside of that, I have to admit I'm having a real hard time grokking your setup. If I understand it correctly, the pump might never fire, because the pressure from the mains will not allow the supply pipes to the house to drop enough in pressure to trigger it off.

I've never seen a lower-end domestic pump with run-dry protection, so you will need to work on that.

150W will be plenty for a single shower/tap. It won't perform so well with 2 or more taps open.

Edited March 3, 2015 by IMHO

[Kenny202]

Took the plunge today and bought a 1000L tank and a Hitachi 150W auto pump. Installed it all this afternoon. I don't have anything connected to the incoming side as our local moo ban provides a tank fill service monthly as our water is so bad.

I'll try and describe what I have done and would appreciate any advice if wrong.

Mains supply meter / non return valve / shower toilet kitchen outlets / non return valve / pump / tank

Our main supply comes in from the front of the home from the meter and runs around the back of the house to shower, toilet, kitchen. It wasn't practical for me to mount the tank / pump out the front so I have opted to introduce the tank water via the pump from the tail end of the line. So have the mains coming in the front and the tank water coming in the end of the line. I have a non return valve on the front water supply after the meter so my tank doesn't pump back into the town supply and also have a non return valve just after my pump so if using mains water it doesn't come back into my pump / tank. Haven't had the opportunity to try it yet as we haven't filled it yet. I guess what could potentially happen is we have mains water pressure coming in from the front and pump pressure water coming in from the back meeting in the middle so to speak. Could this be a potential problem? It may well be I will turn the main water off altogether as it is so unreliable and dirty but may come good again when the rain comes.

Other thing is

does anyone know if those little Hitachi auto pumps have a cut out if the tank ran dry or do I need a float switch?

Will the 150W size be enough? Our water usage is only for two people, mainly water for washing machine, kitchen and shower.

A few observations:

1,000L won't get you very far - do they only fill once per month or more often? As a rough guide, each person in your house can use 50L/day just for bathing, then plus for things like washing clothes and dishes, watering the garden etc. In a family of 4, it's quite possible to use up to 1000L/day if not economizing usage.

Outside of that, I have to admit I'm having a real hard time grokking your setup. If I understand it correctly, the pump might never fire, because the pressure from the mains will not allow the supply pipes to the house to drop enough in pressure to trigger it off.

I've never seen a lower-end domestic pump with run-dry protection, so you will need to work on that.

150W will be plenty for a single shower/tap. It won't perform so well with 2 or more taps open.

Don't worry about the opposing pressure from the mains. Our mains generally 90% of the time is non existent. When it does the pressure is minimal and dirty too. I will probably turn off the mains altogether so just have the pressure coming from the pump end.

50L a day for both of us would be about right. I know I have been carrying buckets from the jar everyday :-)

Will probably buy another 1000L tank I think and twin them up

Appreciate your comments thanks! It's unbelievable. Up until a month ago our water was fine. No one here complains because they "not want make proprem"

Our Amphur head told us today, sorry, our particular moo ban doesn't have its own dam and up until now they had been pumping water from the moo ban next door. They jacked up last month and now we don't have any water apart from when the local service truck goes and fills up the village tank which stirs all the crap up and while we might get water for 2 or 3 hours its unusable. They told is they are making a new dam. Next door told us today they been saying that for 5 years. 3rd world country indeed!

Edited March 3, 2015 by Kenny202

[IMHO]

Took the plunge today and bought a 1000L tank and a Hitachi 150W auto pump. Installed it all this afternoon. I don't have anything connected to the incoming side as our local moo ban provides a tank fill service monthly as our water is so bad.

I'll try and describe what I have done and would appreciate any advice if wrong.

Mains supply meter / non return valve / shower toilet kitchen outlets / non return valve / pump / tank

Our main supply comes in from the front of the home from the meter and runs around the back of the house to shower, toilet, kitchen. It wasn't practical for me to mount the tank / pump out the front so I have opted to introduce the tank water via the pump from the tail end of the line. So have the mains coming in the front and the tank water coming in the end of the line. I have a non return valve on the front water supply after the meter so my tank doesn't pump back into the town supply and also have a non return valve just after my pump so if using mains water it doesn't come back into my pump / tank. Haven't had the opportunity to try it yet as we haven't filled it yet. I guess what could potentially happen is we have mains water pressure coming in from the front and pump pressure water coming in from the back meeting in the middle so to speak. Could this be a potential problem? It may well be I will turn the main water off altogether as it is so unreliable and dirty but may come good again when the rain comes.

Other thing is

does anyone know if those little Hitachi auto pumps have a cut out if the tank ran dry or do I need a float switch?

Will the 150W size be enough? Our water usage is only for two people, mainly water for washing machine, kitchen and shower.

A few observations:

1,000L won't get you very far - do they only fill once per month or more often? As a rough guide, each person in your house can use 50L/day just for bathing, then plus for things like washing clothes and dishes, watering the garden etc. In a family of 4, it's quite possible to use up to 1000L/day if not economizing usage.

Outside of that, I have to admit I'm having a real hard time grokking your setup. If I understand it correctly, the pump might never fire, because the pressure from the mains will not allow the supply pipes to the house to drop enough in pressure to trigger it off.

I've never seen a lower-end domestic pump with run-dry protection, so you will need to work on that.

150W will be plenty for a single shower/tap. It won't perform so well with 2 or more taps open.

Don't worry about the opposing pressure from the mains. Our mains generally 90% of the time is non existent. When it does the pressure is minimal and dirty too. I will probably turn off the mains altogether so just have the pressure coming from the pump end.

50L a day for both of us would be about right. I know I have been carrying buckets from the jar everyday :-)

Will probably buy another 1000L tank I think and twin them up

Appreciate your comments thanks! It's unbelievable. Up until a month ago our water was fine. No one here complains because they "not want make proprem"

Our Amphur head told us today, sorry, our particular moo ban doesn't have its own dam and up until now they had been pumping water from the moo ban next door. They jacked up last month and now we don't have any water apart from when the local service truck goes and fills up the village tank which stirs all the crap up and while we might get water for 2 or 3 hours its unusable. They told is they are making a new dam. Next door told us today they been saying that for 5 years. 3rd world country indeed!

OK, got it. If you don't have one already, you may want to consider installing a ball valve on the mains side of the one-way valve you have. In dirty water situations, one-way valves can easily get gunked up and not seal 100% - even it's it's a tiny amount that seeps out, you probably still want to be able to stop it when water is that precious

[sometimewoodworker]

Took the plunge today and bought a 1000L tank and a Hitachi 150W auto pump. Installed it all this afternoon. I don't have anything connected to the incoming side as our local moo ban provides a tank fill service monthly as our water is so bad.

I'll try and describe what I have done and would appreciate any advice if wrong.

Mains supply meter / non return valve / shower toilet kitchen outlets / non return valve / pump / tank

Our main supply comes in from the front of the home from the meter and runs around the back of the house to shower, toilet, kitchen. It wasn't practical for me to mount the tank / pump out the front so I have opted to introduce the tank water via the pump from the tail end of the line. So have the mains coming in the front and the tank water coming in the end of the line. I have a non return valve on the front water supply after the meter so my tank doesn't pump back into the town supply and also have a non return valve just after my pump so if using mains water it doesn't come back into my pump / tank. Haven't had the opportunity to try it yet as we haven't filled it yet. I guess what could potentially happen is we have mains water pressure coming in from the front and pump pressure water coming in from the back meeting in the middle so to speak. Could this be a potential problem? It may well be I will turn the main water off altogether as it is so unreliable and dirty but may come good again when the rain comes.

Other thing is

does anyone know if those little Hitachi auto pumps have a cut out if the tank ran dry or do I need a float switch?

Will the 150W size be enough? Our water usage is only for two people, mainly water for washing machine, kitchen and shower.

A few observations:

1,000L won't get you very far - do they only fill once per month or more often? As a rough guide, each person in your house can use 50L/day just for bathing, then plus for things like washing clothes and dishes, watering the garden etc. In a family of 4, it's quite possible to use up to 1000L/day if not economizing usage.

I've never seen a lower-end domestic pump with run-dry protection, so you will need to work on that.

150W will be plenty for a single shower/tap. It won't perform so well with 2 or more taps open.

I'm with you on the run dry protection the usual domestic pumps don't have it, but then they don't really need it either. If the pump is running and the water stops just turn the pump off.

The 150W pump we have is easily able to cope with a shower and 2 taps open, with full flow to the shower and good flow to the taps.

It would be able to supply more if I hadn't made the mistake or running all the pipe as ½". If I had run the pipe as 1" just reducing to ½" at the fixtures it would easily supply 4 outlets maybe more.

[IMHO]

Took the plunge today and bought a 1000L tank and a Hitachi 150W auto pump. Installed it all this afternoon. I don't have anything connected to the incoming side as our local moo ban provides a tank fill service monthly as our water is so bad.

I'll try and describe what I have done and would appreciate any advice if wrong.

Mains supply meter / non return valve / shower toilet kitchen outlets / non return valve / pump / tank

Our main supply comes in from the front of the home from the meter and runs around the back of the house to shower, toilet, kitchen. It wasn't practical for me to mount the tank / pump out the front so I have opted to introduce the tank water via the pump from the tail end of the line. So have the mains coming in the front and the tank water coming in the end of the line. I have a non return valve on the front water supply after the meter so my tank doesn't pump back into the town supply and also have a non return valve just after my pump so if using mains water it doesn't come back into my pump / tank. Haven't had the opportunity to try it yet as we haven't filled it yet. I guess what could potentially happen is we have mains water pressure coming in from the front and pump pressure water coming in from the back meeting in the middle so to speak. Could this be a potential problem? It may well be I will turn the main water off altogether as it is so unreliable and dirty but may come good again when the rain comes.

Other thing is

does anyone know if those little Hitachi auto pumps have a cut out if the tank ran dry or do I need a float switch?

Will the 150W size be enough? Our water usage is only for two people, mainly water for washing machine, kitchen and shower.

A few observations:

1,000L won't get you very far - do they only fill once per month or more often? As a rough guide, each person in your house can use 50L/day just for bathing, then plus for things like washing clothes and dishes, watering the garden etc. In a family of 4, it's quite possible to use up to 1000L/day if not economizing usage.

I've never seen a lower-end domestic pump with run-dry protection, so you will need to work on that.

150W will be plenty for a single shower/tap. It won't perform so well with 2 or more taps open.

I'm with you on the run dry protection the usual domestic pumps don't have it, but then they don't really need it either. If the pump is running and the water stops just turn the pump off.

The 150W pump we have is easily able to cope with a shower and 2 taps open, with full flow to the shower and good flow to the taps.

It would be able to supply more if I hadn't made the mistake or running all the pipe as ½". If I had run the pipe as 1" just reducing to ½" at the fixtures it would easily supply 4 outlets maybe more.

The Hitachi 150w pump can flow 32L/min, before piping losses are factored in. Some people are happy with 6L/min eco showers, others like their showers to flow 20+ L/min Yes it will run 4 taps, but not with a great amount of flow rate.. good enough though? only you can be the judge

[lopburi3]

As said this is a personal call - but do not expect normal hotel water pressure with small well pumps - not going to happen. We much prefer the Grundfos 3-4 bar or so (45-60 psi) pumps. But supply five bath home so often many taps open.

[Kenny202]

Well pump installed and the little Hitachi 150w pump installed and pump pressure very strong and equivalent to good mains pressure with 2 or 3 cocks on. Works a treat. Still no town water but after a lot of drama and 100 baht managed to get the local service department to come and fill our tank. Proud as punch and happy as a pig in mud with my new water. Started the washing (haven't been able to wash clothes for 2 weeks). Half an hour and the <deleted> electricity has cut. Been out for 3 hours. Unbelievable!

[lopburi3]

Things can only improve. That glass is half full.

[sometimewoodworker]

The Hitachi 150w pump can flow 32L/min, before piping losses are factored in. Some people are happy with 6L/min eco showers, others like their showers to flow 20+ L/min Yes it will run 4 taps, but not with a great amount of flow rate.. good enough though? only you can be the judge

The spec is 31/Lmin with a 12meter discharge head, so that does include piping losses. I think that an 8L/min isn't a poor flow rate. Specially when the village water is sometimes 8L/hour?

Also FWIW

The average American shower uses 17.2 gallons (65.1 liters) and lasts for 8.2 minutes at average flow rate of 2.1 gallons per minute (gpm) (7.9 lpm).

http://www.home-water-works.org/indoor-use/showers

That shows that those who want 20+L/min will not be usual users.?

[IMHO]

The Hitachi 150w pump can flow 32L/min, before piping losses are factored in. Some people are happy with 6L/min eco showers, others like their showers to flow 20+ L/min Yes it will run 4 taps, but not with a great amount of flow rate.. good enough though? only you can be the judge

The spec is 31/Lmin with a 12meter discharge head, so that does include piping losses. I think that an 8L/min isn't a poor flow rate. Specially when the village water is sometimes 8L/hour?

Also FWIW

The average American shower uses 17.2 gallons (65.1 liters) and lasts for 8.2 minutes at average flow rate of 2.1 gallons per minute (gpm) (7.9 lpm).

http://www.home-water-works.org/indoor-use/showers

That shows that those who want 20+L/min will not be usual users.?

I kept telling that to my visiting Western boss, but until I gave his guest quarters a 58L/min pump (400w inverter), he always complained (nicely) about how crap the shower was In his defence, those waterfall style heads really do need big flow rates to live up to their potential - don't make the same mistake I did - no point installing them if you can't give them huge flow:

Edited March 4, 2015 by IMHO

[Kenny202]

Went and bought another 1000L tank today and paired it up the existing one and system working wonderfully. We have 3 other ceramic water jars at the back of the home too so I bought a submersible pump and some hose also so can pump more water from the jars to the main tanks when needed. Now we just wait for the rain.

Just can't believe the attitude of the local service people here. Its like the public service in Australia 40 years ago where no one could get fired and all were relations so the service level was dreadful. Seems to be a culture here of anyone in local government look down on the local people and the local people seem to cow down to them. 2 months ago we were getting really poor town water supply (poor pressure) and for only around 2 hours a day. Then after about a month the water was coming through without exaggeration darker than a cup of coffee, slightly more liquid than mud and smelt really bad. Put up with that for a month now for the last 2 weeks the water has cut completely...zero. My wife has been talking to the amphur head and he shows genuine concern and refers the problem on to his team who then do nothing or a pss poor job. We are a couple of km out of the main moo ban who have their own dam and our little village were receiving water from their dam (we have no local dam). Apparently the main moo ban jacked up a month ago (they have tons of water and rains coming soon) so service cut supply to our village. No warning, anything. After a couple of weeks my wife told the local head and he claimed no one else had complained and he didn't realise there was a problem. ie we were complaining.Their next solution was to fill the local water pump truck from the muddy klong and pump that into the water tank on the local tower. Apart from the fact the water they were putting in was near putrid, it stirred all the crap up in the bottom of the tank and the result was mud as described above. Now its cut altogether and they keep telling us there is no problem, they are filling the tank every day with 2 truckfulls of water however everyone here we have spoken to also have no water. It only rains here for 3 months of the year (haven't had any real rain for over 6 months) and peoples jars are empty. These people don't have pick ups or trucks to go and get some water from the river or dam so they are up sht creek. I'm lucky I have the resources to sort myself out but I feel for these other poor buggers who just accept it and don't want to cause any dramas. To be fair people here don't seem to pay any local taxes or rates so there can't be a great deal of money available however it doesn't excuse the fact anytime we have been into the local government offices here there will be 2 people openly playing computer games, various people facebooking on their phones and at least one asleep and the rest all mucking around and having a great time. Anyone walking in the door is treated as an annoyance. I know things are different here and all that but none the less it is infuriating. It isn't always the norm here either by the way. Many of the local amphurs here seem to have great services.

[lopburi3]

You are aware that this has been an extreme year for drought - even Bangkok water supply is threatened (with salt water coming up river as just no flow from upcountry as dams are not holding any water. After the mess several years ago when they filled early and nobody let it out but rain continued resulting in flooding the whole country - last year they were prepared for water that never came so dams never came close to filling. But farmers have no income without dry weather crops so irrigation continues and what little water is still available is used for flooding fields rather than drinking. They are trying to start rainmaking early - just hope they do not turn it into another country wide flood year again.

Lot of words - what was trying to say you should never have another year as bad as this for water supply. This has been exceptional.

[Kenny202]

I understand all that too but they do have water and do have options here. Blindly going and filling a tank every day but not bothering to find out or caring why the water isn't getting to people's homes is a different matter. Particularly when there's 3 people are employed to do just that and they're all sitting in the air conditioned office all day. I know it's different here and there's nothing I can do or say to change it but it's hard to cop. I'm venting is all