Patong is dead.

[simon43]

“Somebody claiming divers are moving from Phuket to Koh Tao obviously does not know much about that subject.”

I personally know Sweet FA about diving, other than it involves water and rubber wet-suits.. So do some other enjoyable activities, but I'm neither an expert on that either.

Don't shoot the messenger. If some of my diving guests tell me that Phuket diving sucks and Koh Tao diving is the bees' knees, then who am I to argue the point. Their perception of Phuket may be wrong, but the bottom line is the same ==> Phuket loses out.

Update: Just to labour the point, the issue is not me failing to point out the attractions of Phuket. My guests have already planned and booked their onward itinery before they check in to my hotel. That itinery - for the most part - does not include Phuket.

To make it completely simple, make up an honest sentence using these 3 words:

pig - lipstick - pig

Edited February 15, 2015 by simon43

[stevenl]

Where exactly did Detective Inspector Simon43 say there is ‘nothing’ to do?

As for his alleged ignorance, well, seeing as he appears to have identified a business model that keeps him afloat whilst others (in the same market) struggle harder than an old clapped whore on Bangla, I would hardly describe him as just another deluded inmate who’s gone a wee bit age-crazy. As a frequent visitor to Lalaland I read his observations as well observed and note he doesn’t need to resort to lame insults to make his point. Take note, Sir.

Quote from Simon "Back on-topic, many of my guests ask the very fundamental question 'What does Phuket have to offer?'

Well, IMHO, the answer is not much!

I suggest visiting the Big Buddha, Bangla Road, Simon's Cabaret, Phuket Fantasy. Apart from that.. hmmm."

II did not call Simon ignorant, I said with regards to the mentioned activities he brushes of f too easily, possibly (or probably, I don't exactly recall) based on ignorance of the mentioned activities. Somebody claiming divers are moving from Phuket to Koh Tao obviously does not know much about that subject.

And maybe Simon's guests are typically not interested in any of the mentioned activities, including beaches, but that does not mean Phuket does not have them on offer nor that Chinese in general are not interested in them.

Given the 'things to do' mentioned Simon's right then, isn't he. Big Buddha, couple of hours, most of which spent climbing the hill, Bangla Road, not everyone's cup of tea, is it, a ladyboy show and a cabaret. Wow. But I'm sure you'll be back with a 'well what an earth else do you want, given the exciting and abundant entertainments here?' As is your wont.

Did you read the other posts, in which many, many other things to do were mentioned?

I must say though your post does not make much sense to me, what is your point, question, whatever?

[stevenl]

“Somebody claiming divers are moving from Phuket to Koh Tao obviously does not know much about that subject.”

I personally know Sweet FA about diving, other than it involves water and rubber wet-suits.. So do some other enjoyable activities, but I'm neither an expert on that either.

Don't shoot the messenger. If some of my diving guests tell me that Phuket diving sucks and Koh Tao diving is the bees' knees, then who am I to argue the point. Their perception of Phuket may be wrong, but the bottom line is the same ==> Phuket loses out.

Well, from your hotels diving is not easy, long way to the best sites.

But not only their perception of Phuket diving is wrong, also their perception of Koh Tao diving. And your conclusions based on that one statement are totally wrong.

But this is not about diving, or any of the other mentioned individual activities (still nothing from you on beaches BTW), but about your statement, now clarified a bit, that Phuket is losing out on its neighbours/local Thailand competition and has nothing to compete with that competition. And I strongly disagree with that, Phuket has a lot to offer. It won't be unique or the best on all fronts, but Phuket has something for everybody and is an attractive holiday destination. You just have to see it.

And again, the present downturn is all over Thailand, nothing unique to Phuket. Phuket of course does have it's problems, some the same as other destinations, some unique to Phuket, but it also has its strong points, some the same as other destinations, some unique to Phuket.

Edited February 15, 2015 by stevenl

[Xircal]

While I cant link the articles as this forum has an issue with PW..

Last nights headline was "UPDATE BYO Beach Chairs Are OK, Phuket Police Will Be Told at Special Meeting"

Todays headline is "Phuket Navy, Police Ban All Beach Chairs from Holiday Island's Beaches"

The phrase "cant even run a deckchair concession" sounds like an insult along the lines of "cant run a pissup in a brewery" and yet its pretty much a factual assessment of the management capabilities of the combined resources of the local government.

They're really going to kill off tourism completely on the island. In January, I read on Phuketgazette that a trial period was being conducted whereby tourists would be permitted to bring their own sunloungers. Not that I would consider lugging one of those to the beach along Patong's narrow sidewalks every day.

But today, police were handing out flyers warning tourists that sunloungers and beach chairs were banned. Only beach mats and umbrellas are allowed.

Why is it so difficult to create an honest sunlounger hire facility on the beach? Surely thais aren't all crooks? Because that's the message that's going to come across to tourists.

A real cockup with the flyer translation though. Have to grin at that one.

[simon43]

A real cockup with the flyer translation though. Have to grin at that one.

One of the most important actions that the good General could take is to block access to Google Translate

[Lashay]

When this thread was started (end of Jan) OP was spot on, for some reason last week of Jan/First week of Feb were totally dead in Patong. it was like going from high season to middle low in the space of a weekend. No one is sure why, It's a lot better now, at least in total number of tourists.

Generally though, revenue i would say is only a little up on last year, but way down on two years ago, with worst hit being the nightlife.

Chinese don't participate except to take pictures, tour buses just drop them near Bangla at 8/9pm and come back to pick them up at 00:30, so they wander around for 4 hours when they really only need 30 mins to an hour as they have no interest in drinking/partying.

Russians don't generally participate either except to wander around with BigC/7-11 bought bottles or maybe to head into in the Russian GoGo's so they can get ripped off, as for some reason Russians trust Russian owned places more .

Arabs/Indians just seem to walk around trying to convince bar girls or lady boys to participate in a 5 on 1 gang-bang , at the cost of 1000 baht, of course

Japanese/Koreans have just vanished.

The western/Aussie demographics seem to have changed dramatically over the last 3-5 years as well, before it was mainly male, 40 plus types who where here to drink heavily and monger/fall in love. 3-5 k a night on just booze, would be the average spend for that lot.

These days it's a majority of 20-30 somethings, about 65% male/35% female.

If a couple (why do honeymooners keep coming to Patong of all places?!?!) they just sit in a front row bar to people watch and don't drink that much, if they do drink heavily you regularly see them arguing on main street later because he was paying a little bit to much attention to some bar girl ,

If's it's mainly all male (or all female, many hen party's these days, especially in low season) they generally never seem to have that much to spend per person and even if they do/could they either cannot seem to hack it and are wasted by 1am if not earlier or they head to the clubs to dance and drink water all night long

To cater to them, some larger places have started doing all you can drink in X hours "open bars", 1000b or less and they are filling up quite well (though how much profit they are actually making only they know). But this is only an option for larger places

Overall, by my estimates (i am down there most nights), on any given night, if you stood and counted every person on Bangla at midnight, some 30% have not brought one drink and will not before they leave, another 50% will spend less than 100-700 per person, leaving only 20% spending 1000b plus (actually typing this think i am being a optimistic on that 20%)

There seems to be a general confusion in Thailand in general and Patong in particular about what they want, numbers or money, everyone knows the older guys generally have more money and drink/spend better (and outside of nightlife generally spend more on food, hotels and such, only guided tours do they seem to do less of) but every bar complex and centrally controlled soi sets an atmosphere for your typical 20/30 something, deafening loud dance remixes, flashing neon lights so forth, that chase away the better spending older guys who just want to drink and talk and attracts the backpackers and kids on a budget, who always gravitate to Tiger complexes as they are loudest, brightest of them all....and unfortunately for them, the most expensive

And because they are making less per customer (and overall, especially as rents,key money and salary's keep going up), the prices to the customer keep going up, By a combination of atmosphere and costs they already pushed out many of the old customers (having and willing to spend money does not mean you do not appreciate "value for money") and soon, they will out-price the the "kids" as well.

My real confusion though is all these people coming to Patong and staying in or near it who have no real interest in the nightlife, If it's of no interest to you there are 100's of other better, nicer, cheaper places in Thailand to go to. I suppose that's name recognition for you

And don't get me started on the big Thai orientated places that have started appearing on Bangla, those owners are just off their rockers if they think they are going to make any real money. Thai's know a hundred better and cheaper places to party.

Ultimately i think, Puket in general, Patong in particular will very rapidly stop being a year round, everything open, "party destination", already many bar owners on short contracts in the Soi's/Complexes are talking about walking away from their contracts in early low season in the hopes of finding something else just before next high season (the contracts normally forbid them from closing in low season), that's if they come back at all, it really has been a horrible 14 odd months and most of the complex owners just upped key money/rent on Jan 1st....right after the worst year ever

While many might be happy to see the backs of the "dirty old men", i would like to point out we have now have seen the alternative, Chinese/Russians/Indians/Arabs and drunken European Chavs or equally drunk Bogans escaping from Bali (and basically bringing it with them)

The real "quality" tourists are never going to come Thailand in numbers, the infrastructure/activities, luxury, style, rule of law, basic common sense is just not here and what little that do come will be mainly locked up in the out of the way, international hotel group owned, 6 star resorts, with little of their spending actually hitting the local economy

In the meantime, get ready for lots of reports over the next few months on how tourism numbers are up (except Russians) from various sources and remember that it is mainly spin as they will be comparing to one of the worst years ever (the BKK protests/riots started getting lot of international attention in Dec last year which started to impact numbers from Jan/Feb onwards) if you want to really know how things are, compare to 2012/2013

Edited February 15, 2015 by Lashay

[KarenBravo]

Very good first post.

[Sharp]

I concur!!

[LivinLOS]

Yeah read all that and cant find much to disagree with.. Tho really only 20% spending a grand ??

The economics of the bar industry is and for as long as I have known it, always been about the ground owners and soi head leaser owners, extracting maximum revenue leaving the people who work the nightlife businesses, only the crumbs, if that.. The costs up front on a 3 year bar lease in key money, and fixed costs in rent, simply seem insane for what a bar has to take night in night out year round.. Any one thing out of a long list of not that uncommon things (coups, social order clampdowns, economic downturns) etc etc.. Or entirely predictable events which could close bars for a full 90 days in the near future (I mean imagine that happening late Nov) and any hope of making anything out of it is blown.

Back when it was maybe 500 or 800k down to play own a bar.. OK so maybe not wise but worse ways to spend your time.. Now even low foot traffic mid dead soi bars are in the 50 - 60k USD range I hear.. Better ways to flush that kind of cash..

[tif]

Given the 'things to do' mentioned Simon's right then, isn't he. Big Buddha, couple of hours, most of which spent climbing the hill, Bangla Road, not everyone's cup of tea, is it, a ladyboy show and a cabaret. Wow. But I'm sure you'll be back with a 'well what an earth else do you want, given the exciting and abundant entertainments here?' As is your wont.

Did you read the other posts, in which many, many other things to do were mentioned?

I must say though your post does not make much sense to me, what is your point, question, whatever?

And there you go. Okay, the last word goes to you, again.

[xylophone]

Quote Lashay; "everyone knows the older guys generally have more money and drink/spend better (and outside of nightlife generally spend more on food, hotels and such, only guided tours do they seem to do less of) but every bar complex and centrally controlled soi sets an atmosphere for your typical 20/30 something, deafening loud dance remixes, flashing neon lights so forth, that chase away the better spending older guys who just want to drink and talk......"

So, so true and it is one of the reasons I only go there about once a week now. Gone are the days when you could sit and enjoy a drink whilst having a laugh and a chat with a mate/bar owner.......now you are almost deaf after the thumping music has been pounding away for a while, and hoarse after trying to have a conversation.

Great post, may I add.

[LivinLOS]

Quote Lashay; "everyone knows the older guys generally have more money and drink/spend better (and outside of nightlife generally spend more on food, hotels and such, only guided tours do they seem to do less of) but every bar complex and centrally controlled soi sets an atmosphere for your typical 20/30 something, deafening loud dance remixes, flashing neon lights so forth, that chase away the better spending older guys who just want to drink and talk......"

So, so true and it is one of the reasons I only go there about once a week now. Gone are the days when you could sit and enjoy a drink whilst having a laugh and a chat with a mate/bar owner.......now you are almost deaf after the thumping music has been pounding away for a while, and hoarse after trying to have a conversation.

Great post, may I add.

I would point out.. That I dont totally agree with the 'older guys spend more money' aspect, though I know older guys like to think that..

But the younger guys that like to really get out and party in the nightlife, the oil worker guys, the party crowd.. Clearly not the backpacker or package tourist crowd.. I would say they no longer see the value in doing so in Phuket the same way they did. Whopping it up in the gogos of pattaya is not really any cheaper than a night out in Patong, your still going to drop 5 - 10k in short order but its about bang for buck.

Phukets visitors have subtly shifted, they may look the same, but the shift is there.. Theres a lot more lookie Lous.. Theres a lot more casual tourists out in the nightlife.. The bell ringing sailors on shore leave are still there but as a distant minority, where before they made a decent majority of the customers. Phuket always struck me as a more all round destination, with attractive island appeal, but a good nightlife.. Thats still true but the spenders in that segment (as opposed to say the Nikki Beach club, Brunch, Surin style set) are thinner on the ground.

[Lashay]

I would point out.. That I dont totally agree with the 'older guys spend more money' aspect, though I know older guys like to think that..

Oh don't get me wrong, i am talking in generalities here.

Sure there are the older guys who are the stereotypical "cheap charlies", the expat living here on a pension (that has an ever decreasing purchasing power), the guys who still have to save for whole year to afford the holiday or the worst type, guys who have money but been coming here for 10 years plus who remember when 1000 baht spend in a bar made them a big spender (back when they could get double the amount of thai baht for their home currency) , while now it makes them just another face in the crowd (can generally be easily spotted as they are normally complaining about how everything is too expensive now while back in the day beer was 40b, LD's were 80 and a long time with a stunning 22 year old was 500. While quietly ignoring fact back home they have had same type of inflation)

But the majority are older unattached guys, well into the career path (thus higher income) or on good personal pension, house paid off, kids grown up and mainly self supporting, and if they are lucky, ex remarried and no longer having to pay alimony, thus with reasonable amount of disposable income

And conversely, there are the younger guys, working well paying jobs back home (banking, IT so forth), no kids, already bought their first house/apartment or have no interest in doing so with lots of disposable income as well who have no problem splashing the cash

But again, majority are just starting out in their careers (thus lower income), either paying off student loans/saving up for first house or paying for young kids or alimony to an ex.

But in general, big spending younger guys/ cheap charlie older guys are a minority (especially in case of older cheap charlies down on Bangla as they were pushed out long ago, you might find a lot of them in other areas though), nearly to the point that old saying of the exception proves the rule springs to mind

Edited February 16, 2015 by Lashay

[LivinLOS]

Yeah generalities I guess.. Its just a mantra that a lot of older guys say that I think is only part true.. Goes with the "girls prefer the older guys because.. " lines so well... Along with the preferring fat or bald or whatever they are "I no like skinny man.. I like man pompiu same same yoo".. Yeah sure darling, theres another lolly water..

I do think there was a younger spending set before thats maybe thinner now.. I also see a lot of that younger set still spending in Patts.. The whys of that are entirely debateable..

I tend to think around the 98 to 04 years, after the change of Soi easy from the stumbling dark cave to around the Tsunami time as the peak years.. The shark club, the warren behind Taipan area.. Etc etc..

But everyone has their own peaks otherwise they wouldnt still be doing it..

Edited February 16, 2015 by LivinLOS

[Lashay]

Yeah read all that and cant find much to disagree with.. Tho really only 20% spending a grand ??

Despite all the (somewhat valid) complaints about how expensive Patong/Bangla generally is, unless you are sitting in front bars in Tiger, buying lady drinks, ringing the dastardly bell, hitting the gogos or drinking something foolish like Corona (stupidly overpriced) or expensive like Chivas Regal (which while considered expensive here, is generally a fraction of what you would pay for such in the west) it is still very easy to keep under a grand per person, especially if you are mainly a thai beer drinker (which is main thing sold).

It's about 8-12 beers if you don't hunt around or 8-12 beers plus same amount of shots if you do head down sois. If you really hunt you can find places where it will buy you 50 to 70 small shots. For most, in 3 to 4 hours that's quite a lot of drinking

And quite frankly, would love to hear of any wealthy western country that even comes close

[KarenBravo]

Hold on......1000 Bt in some places will buy 50 to 70 shots? That's 14 Bt to 20 Bt shots.

Even Sang Som costs more than that........

[Lashay]

Hold on......1000 Bt in some places will buy 50 to 70 shots? That's 14 Bt to 20 Bt shots.

Even Sang Som costs more than that........

Yep, quite a few places are doing 5-7 shots for 100 baht. Though note they are small (about half normal size)

Bars with craziest prices are first bar and last two on Seadragon. Generally very busy but cannot for life of me figure out how they are making money

[Sharp]

Yeah generalities I guess.. Its just a mantra that a lot of older guys say that I think is only part true.. Goes with the "girls prefer the older guys because.. " lines so well... Along with the preferring fat or bald or whatever they are "I no like skinny man.. I like man pompiu same same yoo".. Yeah sure darling, theres another lolly water..

I do think there was a younger spending set before thats maybe thinner now.. I also see a lot of that younger set still spending in Patts.. The whys of that are entirely debateable..

I tend to think around the 98 to 04 years, after the change of Soi easy from the stumbling dark cave to around the Tsunami time as the peak years.. The shark club, the warren behind Taipan area.. Etc etc..

But everyone has their own peaks otherwise they wouldnt still be doing it..

Arrrrrr the Shark club.... Many a good night there)))))

[LivinLOS]

Yeah read all that and cant find much to disagree with.. Tho really only 20% spending a grand ??

Despite all the (somewhat valid) complaints about how expensive Patong/Bangla generally is, unless you are sitting in front bars in Tiger, buying lady drinks, ringing the dastardly bell, hitting the gogos or drinking something foolish like Corona (stupidly overpriced) or expensive like Chivas Regal (which while considered expensive here, is generally a fraction of what you would pay for such in the west) it is still very easy to keep under a grand per person, especially if you are mainly a thai beer drinker (which is main thing sold).

It's about 8-12 beers if you don't hunt around or 8-12 beers plus same amount of shots if you do head down sois. If you really hunt you can find places where it will buy you 50 to 70 small shots. For most, in 3 to 4 hours that's quite a lot of drinking

And quite frankly, would love to hear of any wealthy western country that even comes close

12 beers in bangla beer bars on a grand.. not many 80 baht beers in the girly bars these days.. More 150 baht ones..

Sup 5 or so beers, then move onto the gin or vodka tonics (can be in excess of 200 but lets call an average of 180 ??), just a few friendly LDs and then it all starts..

Anyway it is what it is.. Its fun town, you dont expect it to be udon prices.. But even without taking someone home, just drinks and party, its hard to not to spend 5k on a night out..

[hansgruber]

Shark club was the best place for the freelance girls at 2am. When girls were different and not jaded by greed and modern day pressures. Before smartphones and Facebook. Those were the days. If I remember, didn't they get closed down for some under-age girls stripping or something?

[LivinLOS]

He got closed down for not being Thai and having the most popular club in town.. Er, I mean, topless photos taken years before with a 'lewd show' of drinking blowjob shots or a banana with cream on it or something that silly..

[LivinLOS]

Shark club was the best place for the freelance girls at 2am. When girls were different and not jaded by greed and modern day pressures.

I dont know how really different they were, there was great girls then and theres great girls now IMO.. Of course I am not in my 20s any more. I would say thats got much more effect on the girls.

But I liked how things were still so clearly Thai.. At the 2 - 4am bar closure you would walk up to where Jungceylon now sits or Soi Sunset and there were 100s of Thai food carts out for the late night set to get that late feed.. It hadnt all gone pizzas and burgers and chain stores.. It still felt like it hadnt homogonized and watered it down, things were shonky, but charmingly so.. Bars were more stick shack but had character.. I was in Patong 18 months ago and it took some real finding to get Thai food late, took asking 2 or 3 tuktuks to get directions to an Isaan joint back on Sai Nam Yen.. Too many Burger Kings and Maccas and Starbucks.. Too much white formica and franchise food..

Franchises are arriving into Cambodia fast.. Hell even Myanmar will be covered in them in a few years.. Its hard for a place to both provide tourism and keep any kind of identity.. Sure we have better internet, supermarkets, etc etc.. But it watered down many aspects.

[KarenBravo]

He got closed down for not being Thai and having the most popular club in town.. Er, I mean, topless photos taken years before with a 'lewd show' of drinking blowjob shots or a banana with cream on it or something that silly..

If I remember right, he got closed down after a photograph came to light of a guy eating an ice-cream cone from between the legs of a female.

[LivinLOS]

Yeah now you say it that sounds right.. I do remember spray whipped cream I think..

[LivinLOS]

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Shark-Club-boss-kicked-of-Thailand/1931

PATONG: Kevin Radke, manager-shareholder of Patong’s Shark Club, was expelled from Thailand on Friday and was told he will not be allowed back into the country, after authorities decided his activities on the island were in conflict with Thai morals. Pol Col Apirak Hongtong, Superintendent of Phuket Immigration Police, told the Gazette that the police cancelled Mr Radke’s visa on Friday. Governor CEO Pongpayome Vasaputi ordered the Shark Club closed on January 30 after it was discovered that the operating license for the disco – which can hold more than 1,500 revelers – contained irregularities and had, in any case, expired. Gov Pongpayome said that it would not be renewed. The check on the license followed the publication in Thai newspapers of photographs showing girls dancing topless in the club, and a game in which male customers knelt with their hands behind their backs, eating ice cream out of cups gripped between girls’ thighs. Mr Radke could not be reached today, and on Saturday, Governor CEO Pongpayome Vasaputi declined to comment about Mr Radke’s expulsion. However, when asked why the Shark had been closed while other entertainment venues featuring nude shows, and places such as massage parlors, remained untouched, he said, “We have the power to close such places whenever we wish. But we want to tackle the problem step by step.” -

Well done KB.. Seems the hypocrisy hasnt changed one bit..

[Sharp]

Kevin a Canadian as I remember owned the place.... LivinLOS is spot on... Price he paid for being successful....

[YaiJung]

The girl's name was Ning and she was from Nahkorn Si Thammarat. Happened not long after the first Tiger opened. Complete BS setup. They ran that Canadian out of the country. Although he was no angel. I remember seeing him fly completely off the handle acting like a major prick over a parking spot, threatening violence like he was some kind of dangerous big shot or something.

Those were the good old days. Could drive down bangla and park a motorbike right outside the nightclubs without a problem. Taksin coming into office was the beginning of the end.

[LivinLOS]

Those were the good old days.

I have a theory that everyone whose resident for a bit, feels like they have the best of it..

Because you go there enthusiastic and rose tinted glasses, before you see the reality and warts.. And people pick the development stage that suits them.. I remember old hands leaving for up north or cambo grumbling when Nanai was tarmac'ed.. It was becoming too developed for them then. And people now feeling like its great for them, They wouldnt be without fast internet and a starbucks..

But I really do think that 98 to 04 period was, for my perspective, peak party and fun.. The clubs were there Shark, Banana, Tai Pan.. There were enough home comforts (cheese wine and coffee beans) but it was still very much Thai.

I dont know if I was just blind to it, but the people seemed so much friendlier too.. There wasnt the stress levels and animosity that I feel in tourist places now..

[schlog]

I'm with you 98 - 04 was the peak party time with a lot of folks.

The periode 90 - 95 was the time of freedom hardcore party. The saloonbar times with fishing in the morning in the middle of Patong and having a drink with Axel Rose in a bar or meet Van Dame in Banana Disco. In this time the tourists were to scared to get out of their bus in Bangla. Patong was a place of big happiness with regular us sailor shows.

Crazy guys attracts crazy guys. Later party guys attracts party guys. Nowadays low class attracts only low class.

Patong can't change the economical norm that only capital attracts capital.

[Sharp]

Those were the good old days.

I have a theory that everyone whose resident for a bit, feels like they have the best of it..

Because you go there enthusiastic and rose tinted glasses, before you see the reality and warts.. And people pick the development stage that suits them.. I remember old hands leaving for up north or cambo grumbling when Nanai was tarmac'ed.. It was becoming too developed for them then. And people now feeling like its great for them, They wouldnt be without fast internet and a starbucks..

But I really do think that 98 to 04 period was, for my perspective, peak party and fun.. The clubs were there Shark, Banana, Tai Pan.. There were enough home comforts (cheese wine and coffee beans) but it was still very much Thai.

I dont know if I was just blind to it, but the people seemed so much friendlier too.. There wasnt the stress levels and animosity that I feel in tourist places now..

Couldn't agree more...